Paul taught that revelation 20:4 is a present reality

[Marty fox]

You said you learned it from a book called Maccabees which someone told you to read.

You don't even know the name of the pharisee who wrote thd book but you believed it anyway.

That’s not what I said I said that I learned it from a Christian Jew

 

[Timtofly]

No he didn't. Your body is alive. This is not debatable.

Romans 8:10-11

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

 

[Waiting on him]

Romans 8:10-11

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

This is the resurrection of the dead.

 

[shilohsfoal]

That’s not what I said I said that I learned it from a Christian Jew

OK, you learned from someone who learned from someone else. And the teaching you learned from your friend originated from the sect of the Pharisees.

What you learned was taught by the blind.
What I learned was taught of Christ.

You fiqure it out.

 

[Timtofly]

This is the resurrection of the dead.

No, that is living out this physical life. Are you saying the Holy Spirit is currently not in you? It will only be in you hundreds of years from now, after a resurrection?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's a matter of opinion I believe that it has.

then please show from history the beast, the religious leader many call teh false prophet and the mark and the angel that circumnavigated teh globe warning everyone not to take the mark.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

My point is that the man of sin and the sea beast are the same which is nothing like the biblical description of the antichrist. Read the four verses below which are the only verses in the entire Bible that mentions the antichrist and you will see they are nothing like the descriptions of the beast or the man of sin

You are missing the forest for the trees here brother. Its not THE Anti-Crist but THAT Anti-Christ.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

It may not seem important but it is, it id not that [THE] Anti-Christ shall come, even though I could still grasp the overall point, it is pointing unto THAT ONE Anti-Christ as in THAT PERSON who is wickeder than all men before him, you have heard THAT Anti-Christ will come, but even now there are many who stand against Christ. So, he is warning them that this ONE MAN to come may not be here now, but there are still MANY who are against Christ Jesus in this evil world.

So, John is referring unto ONE MAN to come, Paul calls him the Man of Sin, Daniel writes about the Little Horn, he is also called a Beast in Rev. 13. He has many more names, the Assyrian, the Wicked One, Lawless One, the man with a Fierce Countenance, Man of Sin, prince of Tyre, the prince that shall come, Willful King, Son of Perdition, etc. etc. So, we have in the modern age chose ONE NAME as a catch all, the one John spoke of, THAT Anti-Christ this covers them all under one badge.

We know there are MANY anti-christ's on earth, but there is just ONE Anti-Christ, Little Horn, Beast over the 10 Kings, Man of Sin et al.

The antichrist is much different from the sea beast in the book of Revelation. The sea beast purpose is to rule the earth to be worshipped as god, destroy Babylon the great and to try to wipeout the church.

The Anti-Christ is the Last Beat Head that arises in Europe and is born in Greece, AND who has to have Assyrian Blood. Thus he is a Turk, born in Greece, thus he is eligible to come to power in the European Union.

Jesus was about to ascend at that moment to present the firstfruits, the OT redeemed to God. This was when they physically entered Paradise. Lazarus would not stay on earth after experiencing the first resurrection. Neither would any coming out of their graves that week.

No, men are only born once, you are confusing MANY anti-christ's with THAT ONE Anti-Christ which is to come. Rome was against Jesus as was their Emperors. Paradise is a holding place for Jewish souls in the earth. That is why Jesus told the thief he would be with him that day in paradise, Jesus only rose three days later.

The antichrist was already on the earth in Johns days and it’s purpose to deceive and to divert people away from the Messiah Jesus the Christ. The antichrist is more like the land beast from the book of Revelation also known as the false prophet. The antichrist is also not one but many a deceiving spirit inside people.

The perfect description of the antichrist at that time was apostate Israel. The Pharisees were supposed to point the Jews to their messiah but instead they turned the people from Jesus and directed them to Rome and had the Jews state “we have no king but Cesar” That is who John was describing in his epistles.

No, THAT Anti-Christ is the Little Horn/Beast/Man of Sin, I agree there are many anti-christs and it just means anti God in reality, and the anti-christ/anti-God spirit is Eternal just like God. It simply means the opposite of God. But THAT Anti-Christ is referring to ONE MAN.

 

[Waiting on him]

No, that is living out this physical life. Are you saying the Holy Spirit is currently not in you? It will only be in you hundreds of years from now, after a resurrection?

If we’ve been made alive, then that is resurrection.
Question is does this only apply to the ecclesia.

 

[Marty fox]

then please show from history the beast, the religious leader many call teh false prophet and the mark and the angel that circumnavigated teh globe warning everyone not to take the mark.

A demonic being influencing Rome and it’s leaders mainly Nero

A demo being influencing mainly apostate Israel

A devotion to Nero Cesar being devoted to him (mark on the head) and don’t his will (mark on the right hand)

 

[Marty fox]

No Jesus taught about the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel.
The apostles asked Jesus about the time of the end and his coming. Jesus told them the abomination of desolation would take place at the time of the end.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

This we know from the gospels. Jesus taught the abomination of desolation would be placed in Jerusalem in conjuction with his coming.
We also know what you claim was taught by the Pharisees because the pharisee named Flavius Josephus who joined the sect of the Pharisees at the age of 19 said so.

Who do you believe, the Pharisees or Jesus?

Are you rejecting that Antiochus Epehanies didn’t desecrate the temple alter?

The coming on the clouds in the Olivit discourse I believe to be coming in judgement. Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple with a date attached to it and history shows that it happened when Jesus said it would happen proving once again to the Jews that He is God

 

[Marty fox]

You said you learned it from a book called Maccabees which someone told you to read.

You don't even know the name of the pharisee who wrote thd book but you believed it anyway.

You keep making claims about me which are not true you assume things and accuse me of them this is a very bad way to debate. We should debate in grace and love shouldn’t we?

No one told me to read the book of Maccabees I read it myself. It is recorded history

 

[Marty fox]

You are missing the forest for the trees here brother. Its not THE Anti-Crist but THAT Anti-Christ.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

It may not seem important but it is, it id not that [THE] Anti-Christ shall come, even though I could still grasp the overall point, it is pointing unto THAT ONE Anti-Christ as in THAT PERSON who is wickeder than all men before him, you have heard THAT Anti-Christ will come, but even now there are many who stand against Christ. So, he is warning them that this ONE MAN to come may not be here now, but there are still MANY who are against Christ Jesus in this evil world.

So, John is referring unto ONE MAN to come, Paul calls him the Man of Sin, Daniel writes about the Little Horn, he is also called a Beast in Rev. 13. He has many more names, the Assyrian, the Wicked One, Lawless One, the man with a Fierce Countenance, Man of Sin, prince of Tyre, the prince that shall come, Willful King, Son of Perdition, etc. etc. So, we have in the modern age chose ONE NAME as a catch all, the one John spoke of, THAT Anti-Christ this covers them all under one badge.

We know there are MANY anti-christ's on earth, but there is just ONE Anti-Christ, Little Horn, Beast over the 10 Kings, Man of Sin et al.


The Anti-Christ is the Last Beat Head that arises in Europe and is born in Greece, AND who has to have Assyrian Blood. Thus he is a Turk, born in Greece, thus he is eligible to come to power in the European Union.



No, men are only born once, you are confusing MANY anti-christ's with THAT ONE Anti-Christ which is to come. Rome was against Jesus as was their Emperors. Paradise is a holding place for Jewish souls in the earth. That is why Jesus told the thief he would be with him that day in paradise, Jesus only rose three days later.



No, THAT Anti-Christ is the Little Horn/Beast/Man of Sin, I agree there are many anti-christs and it just means anti God in reality, and the anti-christ/anti-God spirit is Eternal just like God. It simply means the opposite of God. But THAT Anti-Christ is referring to ONE MAN.

Okay and what does John say the antichrist spirit is and what does John say that the purpose of the antichrist is?

Now what does John say that the sea beast of revelation is and what does John say the sea beast purpose is?

John shows that they are different beings with different purposes what’s so hard to understand and accept about that?

 

[Marty fox]

It has been shown several times, once again

Daniel's (Little Horn) will be present on earth to see the second coming and final judgement as scripture clearly teaches below

No Antiochus Epiphanies 167BC didn't fulfill the scripture below in Daniel's (Little Horn), the literal second coming and final judgement seen below, is a future event unfulfilled

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Yes and you have posted this to me many times before and I disagreed with you every time. We don’t have the same views of this but that being said doesn’t prove anything.

Weather I state something or you state something doesn’t make it a fact just different views we could both be wrong

 

[shilohsfoal]

Are you rejecting that Antiochus Epehanies didn’t desecrate the temple alter?

The coming on the clouds in the Olivit discourse I believe to be coming in judgement. Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple with a date attached to it and history shows that it happened when Jesus said it would happen proving once again to the Jews that He is God

I reject the Pharisees interpretation of Daniels prophecy. Those blind leaders of the blind no nothing. They were simply wrong and have misled multitudes of people.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You keep making claims about me which are not true you assume things and accuse me of them this is a very bad way to debate. We should debate in grace and love shouldn’t we?

No one told me to read the book of Maccabees I read it myself. It is recorded history

You said you were shown it by a Christian jew and then told me that I should read Maccabees.
Well I read it and found it to be untruthful.
It is a false interpretation of Daniels prophecy. The Pharisees got it wrong.
The Pharisees called Jesus a false prophet because his teaching did not aline with thiers. Turns out they were wrong.

 

[Marty fox]

You said you were shown it by a Christian jew and then told me that I should read Maccabees.
Well I read it and found it to be untruthful.
It is a false interpretation of Daniels prophecy. The Pharisees got it wrong.
The Pharisees called Jesus a false prophet because his teaching did not aline with thiers. Turns out they were wrong.

The Pharisees and many others including the deciples had Jesus wrong because they thought that Jesus would bring in a physical kingdom and kick out the Romans and rule His kingdom from Jerusalem. This is a mistake that I believe many Christians still have wrong today as Jesus said to pilot that His kingdom was not of this world.

What everyone also got wrong is that they didn’t realize that the messiah was also God. The Pharisees were wrong about Jesus and did the ultimate evil and had the people reject and kill their messiah and turn the people from God to Rome but that doesn’t mean everything they said was wrong.

John 11:49-52
49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”

51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, 52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one. 53 So from that day on they plotted to take his life.

 

[Truth7t7]

Weather I state something or you state something doesn’t make it a fact just different views we could both be wrong

I Agree, however God's word clearly states the "Fact" (The Little Horn) will be present on earth to witness the second coming and final judgment, a future event unfulfilled

Marty will you deny that the second coming and final judgement is seen below?

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

 

[Marty fox]

I reject the Pharisees interpretation of Daniels prophecy. Those blind leaders of the blind no nothing. They were simply wrong and have misled multitudes of people.

So are you rejecting that Antiochus Epehanies didn’t desecrate the temple alter?

 

[shilohsfoal]

So are you rejecting that Antiochus Epehanies didn’t desecrate the temple alter?

I dont consider killing a pig desecrates anything. It was created by God just like any other animal and offering it to something that doesn't exist doesn't desecrate a rock its slaughtered on.
If anyghing I would say the person who thinks they are offering up to a false God is perverted or just a complete idiot.

PS, I ate ham for breakfast. Do you thi k that desecrate God's temple?

 

[Marty fox]

I Agree, however God's word clearly states the "Fact" (The Little Horn) will be present on earth to witness the second coming and final judgment, a future event unfulfilled

Marty will you deny that the second coming and final judgement is seen below?

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Well I don’t see the second coming in that text but it is the judgement day.

Daniel 7 has two views of the future (to the time of the text) the vision of the ancient of days and the vision of the son of man man coming on the clouds too heaven.

These two visions are to give hope to the people living in those times that Daniel was writing about showing them to persevere and that God will overcome in the end just like the hope the book of revelation gives us