Shalom, Purity.
Purity said:
Patriotism has no place for the people of God. Yes we are to respect the laws of the Land, but where those laws seek to remove His righteous commands we know Whom we obey!
I am often amazed at the cultural paradigm Americans bring to the true Gospel of Jesus Christ - gun laws are one such issue you currently face. Christ states one should love their enemy (Matt 5:43,44) but you live in a society which condones killing someone who threatens your civil liberties, or seeks to kill you for some indifference. Its amazing what can be justified under the symbol of a flag - now that's nonsense.
Retro, you are a sojourner in that land and while you require natural citizenship by no means are you spiritual bound to that country, or its ungodly policies.
Be like Abraham ;) Heb 11:10
Purity
Sojourning principles needs to be acknowledged first before quoting Romans 13.
[SIZE=9.5pt]Sojourning: [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Sojourn in this land (Gen. 26:3); Abraham went down to Egypt to sojourn there (Gen. 12:10); Abraham sojourned in Gerar (Gen. 20:1); this man came to sojourn and he would act the judge (Gen. 19:9); they will sojourn in a land which is not theirs (Gen. 15:13); Abraham sojourned in the land of the Philistines many days (Gen. 21:34); Canaan, the land of your sojournings (Gen. 17:8; Exod. 6:4); Jacob lived in the land of Canaan where his father sojourned (Gen. 37:1); show kindness to the land where you are sojourning (Gen. 21:23); we have come to sojourn in the land (Gen. 47:4); I have been a sojourner in a foreign land (Exod. 2:22); Hebron, where Abraham and Isaac[/SIZE] sojourned (Gen. 35:27); I have sojourned with Laban until now (Gen. 32:4); Elimelech went to sojourn in Moab (Ruth 1:1).
With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about! Consider the following passage (the context of one of the verses you quoted above):
Genesis 21:22-32
22 And it came to pass at that time, that Abimelech and Phichol the chief captain of his host spake unto Abraham, saying, God is with thee in all that thou doest:
23 Now therefore swear unto me here by God that thou wilt not deal falsely with me, nor with my son, nor with my son's son: but according to the kindness (Hebrew: kacheced = like-covenant-keeping) that I have done unto thee, thou shalt do unto me, and to the land wherein thou hast sojourned.
24 And Abraham said, I will swear.
25 And Abraham reproved Abimelech because of a well of water, which Abimelech's servants had violently taken away.
26 And Abimelech said, I wot not who hath done this thing: neither didst thou tell me, neither yet heard I of it, but to day.
27 And Abraham took sheep and oxen, and gave them unto Abimelech; and both of them made a covenant.
28 And Abraham set seven ewe lambs of the flock by themselves.
29 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What mean these seven ewe lambs which thou hast set by themselves?
30 And he said, For these seven ewe lambs shalt thou take of my hand, that they may be a witness unto me, that I have digged this well.
31 Wherefore he called that place Beer-sheba (Hebrew for "Well of Seven"); because there they sware both of them.
32 Thus they made a covenant at Beer-sheba: then Abimelech rose up, and Phichol the chief captain of his host, and they returned into the land of the Philistines.
KJV
"
Checed" is MUCH MORE than "kindness" or "loving-kindness" as it is sometimes translated! It carries with it the idea of "COVENANT-KEEPING!" That's why the Holman Christian Standard Bible translates it as "be loyal." The word means to hold up your end of the deal, to be true to the agreement!
Avraham was LIKE a sojourner in the Land of Isra'el, but God had promised ALL the Land upon which he set his foot to be a Land for him and his descendants!
Genesis 13:14-18
14 And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
18 Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the Lord.
KJV
Hebrews 11:8-10
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles (Greek: en skeenais = "in tents") with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
KJV
He lived like a Bedouin of Arabia, following his herds as they grazed! But, everywhere he set his foot, that Land was promised to HIM AND HIS SEED! This INCLUDES Philistia (the modern-day Gaza Strip) and Egypt! For him and Yitschaq (Isaac) and Ya`aqov (Jacob), these Lands were promised by God to be THEIR Land! He was a sojourner - a traveling visitor - because he was TAKING POSSESSION OF THE LAND!
Sometime, you should watch the movie "Sergeant York" (1951), starring Gary Cooper. Alvin York (a REAL war hero) was a simple man from the back woods of Tennessee and a born-again believer who believed his Bible and didn't want to fight in the Great War. "God doesn't want me to kill anyone." At first, he filed to be a conscientious objector for WWI because He didn't want to kill anyone, but he learned something from another Christian: God wants us to protect the innocent! We cannot allow the wicked to kill the innocent! That is ALSO something that God doesn't want! We have to stop the aggression of wicked men and stop it as soon as possible!
Regarding gun laws, there's a saying that goes around - "Guns don't kill people; PEOPLE kill people!" It's very true. Guns are simply tools that people may use. How they
CHOOSE to use those tools determines who is lawful and who is lawless! Sin starts on the INSIDE and is manifested outwardly afterward! Now, granted, many people these days are not taught to have a good sense of morality; so, the potential for having a person abuse the gun for some hot-headed, thoughtless aggression, but "guns" are not the bad guy in the story! If a "bad guy," a person who has decided through many choices in his or her life to do what he or she KNOWS is wrong, even if the action SEEMS to be impulsive, commits a crime and uses a gun to maim or kill someone else, that person would have found something else to use if guns were not available!
Accidents, too, can happen with ANY tool if the instruction for how to use the tool properly is missing! Many times I have heard of a carpenter getting hit with a nail from a nail gun when someone forgets to put the safety on while the air compressor is running! That, too, is potentially deadly!
When automobiles first were becoming popular, one had to be an engineer or at least a good tinkerer in order to own and operate one. They broke down frequently. Now that they've become readily available to anyone with (or even without) a valid driver's license and are fairly reliable, only needing occasional maintenance, they are easily operated by those who don't have the slightest clue how they work or what to do with them if they break down! They are out on the road with these vehicles, with or without the proper instruction for how to use them. Driver's Education courses may or may not be effective; a person may or may not have learned those courses well enough. They may only know enough to pass a driver's exam, and then ... "YIPPEE! That's out of the way! I've got my license! Let's go celebrate!" Is it any wonder that we have so many "accidents" with them?
A gun is nothing more than a mechanism that strikes a bullet at a particular point hard enough to set off an explosion within the chamber of the cartridge to fire a projectile, the actual bullet, down the gun's barrel, and out the nose of the gun in a particular direction with a particular exit velocity and spin. The person firing the gun is the one who chooses what that projectile will do and what will be its target.
I will leave you with this thought:
1 John 4:20-21
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
KJV
The word "patriot" is defined as...
patriot, n. 1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests....
"Country" is defined as...
country, --n. 1. a state or nation: European countries. 2. the territory of a nation. 3. the people of a district, state, or nation. 4. the land of one's birth or citizenship. 5. rural districts, as opposed to cities or towns. 6. any considerable territory demarcated by topographical conditions, by a distinctive population, etc. 7. the public at large, as represented by a jury. 8. COUNTRY MUSIC. --adj. 9. of, from, or characteristic of the country; rural. 10. rude; unpolished; rustic: country manners. 11. of, from, or pertaining to a particular country. 12. Obs. of one's own country. [1200-50; ME cuntree < AF, OF < VL *(regio) contrada terrain opposite the viewer]
I submit to you that a true "patriot" is "one who
LOVES, supports, and defends
the PEOPLE of his or her own state or nation," not just the land or the governing control. These are the
PEOPLE that we know, love, and care about, the
PEOPLE whom we see everyday under normal conditions, the
PEOPLE who are important to us, the PEOPLE who matter to us! And, shouldn't we love our neighbor as ourselves? And who exactly IS our neighbor?
Luke 10:25-37
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
KJV
John 15:12-13
12 This is my COMMANDMENT, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
KJV
This is not just about Yeshua`s willingness to be sacrificed for our sins; this is
FOR US, TOO! If you can't be patriotic to those whom you can see, how can you say that you are patriotic to God whom you cannot see?!
