Pre-Destined Elect - simplified.

[Nancy]

Here is a simplified understanding.

God does not pre-destine us to be SAVED, while others are pre-destined to be Damned.
Bottomline.

Let me bring this "pre-destined elect" Theology home to you reader.......
Do you have a mother, do you have a child, children? What if God pre-determined that you get to go to Heaven, while He pre-destined your mother and your children to burn in the lake of fire, and there is nothing they can do about it. They CAN'T BE SAVED because GOD WON'T LET THEM.
So, do you see the "crazy" in this Hyper-Calvinism Theology?
Welcome to "pre-destined elect", "elect" "elect" "elect" "elect" "elect" heresy.
I think this one is the worst of them all, regarding totally rejecting the New Testament.
Imagine a "gospel" that accuses God of ordaining all the "evil" in the world.
Imagine a "gospel" that teaches as its core theological principle that God chooses some for Heaven and chooses to burn others, and you are BORN to this "pre-destiny"
and you have no CHOICE.
This is as crazy as it gets.. theologically.
This horrible theology teaches that some people are born to go to hell. They have No choice to be saved. No way to be saved. No option to be saved. No free-will.. This hellish theology literally teaches that some of you are born to BURN in the Lake of Fire and God chose you to go.
The incredibly deceived who teach this damnable hellish cultish theological poison will tell you that all the evil in the world...... Rape, murder, incest, child porn, the sex industry, the porn industry, all Wars, all of man's inhumanity to man is "ordained by God and is caused to BE, by God".
Their theology and belief functions, as if there is no Devil.

Listen, anyone with an IQ, or a recognition that the Same Beautiful and Loving God who came here to die as... "For God so loved the WORLD< that HE GAVE".. understands that God as Christ on a Cross dying for the "sin of the world", is not a God who later.... saves some and burns others.

The reality is... all this "pre-destined elect" stuff resists Spiritual LOGIC< when we understand that "GOD IS LOVE"....and its certainly in direct opposition to the reality of Free Will... as well as denying a plethora of NT Verses that all say..>"as MANY as will come"..." ALL that call on ME shall be saved"...

See, this is the thing about deception....its very powerful. And Satan blinds the mind so that reason, logic, discernment, common sense, are GONE, and all that is left is God denying illogical carnal nonsense that deceived people will claim is "truth".
And this is true of all theological heresies and the people that own them and rant them.

The ELECT,....
These are those who are Pre-destined, or pre-determined to end up ONLY as conformed into "the image of Christ".
You are "elected" by FAITH, you are the elect: by FAITH.
Faith elects the elect.

Being conformed into the Image of Christ is what is pre-determined, (pre-destined) as the final outcome for all who are born again. (Elect).
No one is "chosen by God to burn", and "others are chosen by God to go to Heaven".
WE, the born again, are ELECTED to become, "the image of Christ, by our FAITH that causes God to give us the New Birth.
Faith Elects.
God Saves.

The Foreknowledge of God, knows, regarding each of us who are born again, .....long before we were, that our end result is to become just like Jesus. (conformed into the image of Christ). This is the final result of Faith. This is the destiny of the Elect.
God also knows before you are born, if you are not going to ever Trust in Christ... But He is not choosing this for anyone....>He only knows what each of us will do with Christ.
God's KNOWING is not God CHOOSING......its just God KNOWING before it happens. = "foreknowledge"....or knowledge be-FORE it happens...."Fore-Knowledge".

WE are a SON of GOD , already.. but the final "pre-destined" revealing will be when we are in heaven, and have the new body and are finally and totally conformed into the image of Christ. This is the "pre destined" outcome that is the end result of our Faith.
This is pre-determined (pre-destined) to occur to everyone who is born again.
That is your pre-destination.
You are Elected by your FAITH to have a final determined outcome....>"conformed into the Image of Christ". = elect.

Not only the fact that the TULIP's say that the fact that He chooses some for heaven and some for hell but they say that those that are destined to burn-no matter their love of The Lord, and believing on Him-is to show the glory of Gods wrath. I am totally with you on this one. I find it not only a doctrine that strips so many of hope but also a doctrine of demons. I have had my issues with Calvinists in real life and it is not pretty...
Good post

 

[Nancy]

I teach a lot.
And i mean that in both regards......I teach a lot of people, and i do a lot of teaching.
Posting, writing, songs, sermons.........classes.

So, i talk to a lot of people in the States, and all over,.... and regarding this "pre- destined" elect heresy,...this has got to be the worst the devil has ever created.
Its well beyond "Christ and Jesus are Brothers"....as even that Cult does not teach that God Himself is causing some people to burn in the Lake of fire, and that they have no choice but to GO TO HELL.....they are as the "pre-destined" heretics teach..... designed to go....they are BORN to Go to Hell.
This same "pre-destined elect" group, teaches that all the evil in the world is GOD ORDAINED. (caused)
These heretics will lie in public.
They'll deny what they believe if they are "outed".
They'll band together and try to protect each other on forums.
So this devil's theology produces liars as well as devils.

Im on...for example......"Christianforums.com.
This forum is LIVID with "pre-destined" elect heretics.
They are seeping out of the cracks there,,,,,,they grow like dark vines there..
Almost all the Mods on that "christian" forum, are deep into "pre-destined" elect , crazy.
So, im recently arguing about this "God ordains all the evil in the world" with this nutbar PDE MOD and he's livid.
The more i post a response defining what He is saying as "God accusing" and "you are accusing GOD of doing the DEVILS's work ". the angrier he becomes.
So we are deep into it.
He is so angry, .... spitting hate. "YES THATS RIGHT, GOD ORDAINS ALL THE BAD, ALL THE EVIL , ALL THE HATRED, ALL THE HARM IN THE WORLD, THIS HAS TO BE ORDAINED BY GOD, CAUSED BY GOD...THATS RIGHT" !!!!

SO, I Kept responding... pointing out in 25 of his posts to me. .. responding... "you are accusing God of doing the Devil's work....when you say that all EVIL is ordained (caused) of GOD". And i finally tell him that to accuse God of doing the devil's work of "ordaining and causing EVIL", is no different then religious haters of Jesus who said to Jesus... "You are performing miracles, by the power of the Devil".
See, its the SAME THING...

So, things became suddenly Quiet.
No more posts.
10 mins later, another MOD on this site, PM's me. "Behold, you are not staying on topic, and our TOS dictates that you have to stick to the Topic of the Thread....so for this reason.....we are going to remove some of your Posts".

They removed every post he wrote to me, it was 25 of them, where he was defending his "pre destined" theology that God ordains it ALL....including all the evil....."rape, incest, hate, murder, child porn, sex trafficing"..... all this stuff that i posted to him that had to be included in his " God ordains all the evil" theological lunacy.

The moral of the story?
Our discussion started because he FIRST posted to ME, the idea of "God ordains it all".
All i did was respond... and respond.
But now im PM'd and told that im the one not staying on "topic"....and it was this MODERATOR who came to ME with the FIRST post that took us into the topic that im now being blamed for by other MODs.

Welcome to how "christianity" works, on some forums, in case you were curious, and only live on this one., reader.
Normally i just face the same little group of heretics on a forum, but on this one....the MODS came running to perform some damage control, regarding trying to protect a liar, who was lying about GOD Himself.
I can see why they would.... as once you "out" these devils, its an ugly Light they find themselves inside.
And its a HOT one.
Believe it.

It seems that Calvinism attracts the "intellectuals" and many young are buying into it. Funny thing, I attended a Calvinistic Church for (gulp) 3 years, did not know the Pastors beliefs at first but, when I made an appointment with him, he made it clear that he is a 5 pointer BUT...I am guessing that the large majority of his small congregation has no idea and that is from speaking with several of them, and they are older and have been attending that Church for decades! He even said to me that he believes that most of the congregation is not saved! So then, why does he take their money and have communion with them??
He does not actually come out and teach what he say's he believes but he does teach on it by omission. He could never look someone in the eye and say that God loves them or he would be more of a hypocrite than he already is, not to mention, many would leave that church. Sad really.

 

[Nancy]

Predestination simplified: He loves me, He loves me not! The fickle finger of Fate will reside with the last petal of the TULIP!

Lol.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Not only the fact that the TULIP's say that the fact that He chooses some for heaven and some for hell but they say that those that are destined to burn-no matter their love of The Lord, and believing on Him-is to show the glory of Gods wrath. I am totally with you on this one. I find it not only a doctrine that strips so many of hope but also a doctrine of demons. I have had my issues with Calvinists in real life and it is not pretty...
Good post

That is not the teaching. You claim to have sat in a Cal church for 3years and you do not know the teaching?
Which Confession of faith did they use?

 

[Renniks]

[Romans 9:8-24 NASB] 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON." 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived [twins] by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though [the twins] were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to [His] choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." 14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 [even] us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

The lord has mercy and the lord hardens ... as Creator, that is His right. (And I trust Him to do the right thing.)

Rotflol! The classic " pull the middle out of Romans 9 and ignore the rest of Romans ploy! Try letting scripture interpret scripture and you will grow in knowledge.

 

[Nancy]

That is not the teaching. You claim to have sat in a Cal church for 3years and you do not know the teaching?
Which Confession of faith did they use?

Apparently you did not read my whole post as, I said that the pastor did NOT teach on it other than by omission. I sat down and spoke face to face with him for over an hour in his office with his secretary in there as well. I know exactly what TULIP means as I got it from the horses mouth. I told him that I was not a proponent so, we both knew where we were coming from. I stayed only because what he did preach was biblical but, there was definitely something missing there and after leaving, (I spoke with him before I did leave...no sneaking out the back door) and starting again at an old Church of mine that happened to just open their 4th campus very near me. It was like coming home after a too long hiatus.

 

[Candidus]

Calvin is silly. Babies are not in hell. Jesus segregated them from the adults..."for of such is the kingdom of heaven".

View attachment 9845
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

God is no Respecter of persons. If there is original Sin, then no one is born fit for heaven... Jesus said so! "Ye must be Born-Again"!

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

God is no Respecter of persons. If there is original Sin, then no one is born fit for heaven... Jesus said so! "Ye must be Born-Again"!

No one is born fit for heaven,they are born spiritually dead.

 

[Candidus]

No one is born fit for heaven,they are born spiritually dead.

And God is no Respecter of persons. So are you consistent and say that infants are in Hell?

 

[Joseph77]

And God is no Respecter of persons. So are you consistent and say that infants are in Hell?

Would you post which Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic Biblical Word you are referring to as hell in your post ?
There are at least three different meanings,
or are you using a pagan bablonian, greek or english meaning of hell that is not found in Scripture?

 

[Candidus]

Would you post which Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic Biblical Word you are referring to as hell in your post ?
There are at least three different meanings,
or are you using a pagan bablonian, greek or english meaning of hell that is not found in Scripture?

Which version of Fatalism do you impose upon Scripture? Early Gnostic, or Manicheanism?

 

[Truther]

God is no Respecter of persons. If there is original Sin, then no one is born fit for heaven... Jesus said so! "Ye must be Born-Again"!

Yes, mature folks must be born again.

Acts 2:38 was specifically designed to be complied with by mature people, not babies.

My 1 an 2 year old grandsons can't seem to comprehend Acts 2:38, nor even say it.

 

[Candidus]

Yes, mature folks must be born again.

Acts 2:38 was specifically designed to be complied with by mature people, not babies.

My 1 an 2 year old grandsons can't seem to comprehend Acts 2:38, nor even say it.

Jesus said... "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

No one is exempt! Even after saying "Truly, truly," Jesus only meant those precisely one minute after they turn 30 years old? Where is the age? Where is the exception in the double emphasis of "truly, truly"?

Place this all back into the argument of Gnostic Calvinistic Fatalism... God does it all! Being an infant cannot be a consideration for salvation if Fatalistic Predestination is how God works.

 

[Behold]

To foreknow is to foreSEE.

God saw these folks take the mark of the beast in Rev before the foundation of the world, therefore their names were not written in the book of life that far back.

yes., but God does not cause them to take the "mark".
God only allows them to choose what they will do.
This is why @Revelation 20:11, there will be no 2nd chance to be saved.
There will be no..>"well, ok, you say you are sorry for Rejecting Christ all your life".......no problem then.
NO.
Christ died on earth for sinners, and sinners will take Christ on EARTH as savior or they chose to meet God as Judge in eternity.
The reason people go to hell is because they CHOSE TO GO.
All you have to do is Reject Christ all your life and DIE.
Thats your ticket to Hell.
You bought it and God accepts your DECISION in Eternity.

 

[Behold]

It seems that Calvinism attracts the "intellectuals" and many young are buying into it. Funny thing, I attended a Calvinistic Church for (gulp) 3 years, did not know the Pastors beliefs at first but, when I made an appointment with him, he made it clear that he is a 5 pointer BUT...I am guessing that the large majority of his small congregation has no idea and that is from speaking with several of them, and they are older and have been attending that Church for decades! He even said to me that he believes that most of the congregation is not saved! So then, why does he take their money and have communion with them??
He does not actually come out and teach what he say's he believes but he does teach on it by omission. He could never look someone in the eye and say that God loves them or he would be more of a hypocrite than he already is, not to mention, many would leave that church. Sad really.

I hear you.

How can a hyper calvinist face God with a smile when all their life they accused God of doing the Devil's work of "ordaining evil" in the world.
Honestly, these people have a extreme comeuppance coming to them..
These hyper religious deceivers seem to think that there is no Devil, as they give God all the credit due Satan, for Satan's deeds.

 

[Behold]

God is no Respecter of persons. If there is original Sin, then no one is born fit for heaven... Jesus said so! "Ye must be Born-Again"!

God came to earth to take care of a situation so that the people on the earth could return back to God's family.
What is that situation?
SIN.
God had to deal with the sin of the world so that everyone in the world could be accepted back into God's Spiritual Family, by "justification by/through Faith".
So, God as Christ fulfilled HIS Law, which took aways its dominion over us, and restored us to "righteousness" through His Holy Blood.
God gives us His Righteousness because He can't accept less.
We have to have HIS Righteousness...>"the Gift of Righteousness"...
We dont have any of our own, so, God resolved this by giving us His THROUGH THE CROSS.
= Salvation = Born again.

 

[Truther]

yes., but God does not cause them to take the "mark".
God only allows them to choose what they will do.
This is why @Revelation 20:11, there will be no 2nd chance to be saved.
There will be no..>"well, ok, you say you are sorry for Rejecting Christ all your life".......no problem then.
NO.
Christ died on earth for sinners, and sinners will take Christ on EARTH as savior or they chose to meet God as Judge in eternity.
The reason people go to hell is because they CHOSE TO GO.
All you have to do is Reject Christ all your life and DIE.
Thats your ticket to Hell.
You bought it and God accepts your DECISION in Eternity.

Correct.

God does not cause them to take the mark.

All I am saying is God saw particular sinners in the future reject Him(taking the mark), before the world was made. This is why they never had their names in the book of life from when the world was made.

I am vindicating Rev 17.

 

[Truther]

God came to earth to take care of a situation so that the people on the earth could return back to God's family.
What is that situation?
SIN.
God had to deal with the sin of the world so that everyone in the world could be accepted back into God's Spiritual Family, by "justification by/through Faith".
So, God as Christ fulfilled HIS Law, which took aways its dominion over us, and restored us to "righteousness" through His Holy Blood.
God gives us His Righteousness because He can't accept less.
We have to have HIS Righteousness...>"the Gift of Righteousness"...
We dont have any of our own, so, God resolved this by giving us His THROUGH THE CROSS.
= Salvation = Born again.

Correct, and to get to the cross one must go through Acts 2:38.

One cannot believe their way into heaven, no more than a fan can believe their team into winning the world series.

 

[Behold]

Correct.

God does not cause them to take the mark.

All I am saying is God saw particular sinners in the future reject Him(taking the mark), before the world was made. This is why they never had their names in the book of life from when the world was made.

I am vindicating Rev 17.

Truther,

God knows what you are thinking, while you are reading what i just typed to you.
God know how many breaths you'll take today till midnight.
God knows what you'll be doing 35 mins from now.
God knows not only your Thoughts, but your MOTIVES.

So, yeah, God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent.
He's "GOD"..
Its all easy for Him....

 

[Behold]

Correct, and to get to the cross one must go through Acts 2:38.

One cannot believe their way into heaven, no more than a fan can believe their team into winning the world series.

God only accepts Faith to save you.
So, your teaching that "believing" isn't the way that God accepts you, is : Galatians 1:8
"cursed".

Its heresy to teach that "All that call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved", isn't the Gospel.
Its heresy to teach that "as many as Received Jesus, to them God gave the Power to become the Son's of God", isn't the Gospel.
Its heresy to teach that """"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost """ isn't the Gospel.

So, dont teach that being baptized in water, is how to be saved, as that is not the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Acts 2:38 happened at a Jewish Feast, Pentecost, and only Jews were saved.
Later, Paul was given the "Gospel" and taught it to the Body of Christ", as what we understand now as "The Gospel of the Grace of God"..."Justification BY faith" if offered to EVERYONE.