PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

[Douggg]

No there is a place called Hades (The Grave) which people all too often translate to mean hell.

There is also a place called hell, I think currently its the core of our earth and one day this whole universe will be set on fire and will be hell, a time trap no demon/human spirit can escape from. Only the AC & False Prophet are cast ALIVE (Meaning no SOUL SLEEP) into hell, because we know Dan. 7:11 says the Beasts BODY is DESTROYED and then cast into hellfire.

Death and Hades (The Grave) is cast into the Lake of Fire (Pur).

The AC and False Prophet were cast into the Lake of Fire 1000 years earlier.

Of course the soul sleeps, until Judgment. This is why there are two Resurrections, the Righteous over a period of 7 years, Pre Trib. Rapture until the 2nd coming, and the 2nd Resurrection happens 1000 years later on.

Hi Ronald,

In his story about Lazarus and the rich man there appears to be two sides of the place the where souls of them who had died went after dying. Lazarus may have been in the side known as paradise, as Jesus said to the thief on the cross...

Luke 23:
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

When Jesus's body was in the tomb for three days, where did Jesus's soul go to during that time ?

Ephesians4:
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

[The Light]

Where is the Church mentioned in Revelation 4?

It's not.

 

[WPM]

It's not.

Exactly. Your imaginary Pretrib rapture has just gone up in smoke.

 

[The Light]

Fake News Check

Pretrib has been totally debunked once again. The fake history presented in the video reference the early Church fathers has been debunked. The Pretrib advocate in the video has been debunked. This is another own goal for Pretrib.

I guess it's possible to be this delusional. Those Dem roots must cause quite a conflict in your brain.

Oh sorry, I just realized it's fake news.

 

[WPM]

I guess it's possible to be this delusional. Those Dem roots must cause quite a conflict in your brain.

Oh sorry, I just realized it's fake news.

• Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
• Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests? The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?
• Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the fruit harvest " mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the barley harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the wheat harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the New Testament text or in any rapture passage?
• Where in the New Testament does it say “there are two raptures – grain and fruit”?
• Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?

 

[The Light]

• Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?

Colossians 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Everyone should understand that the Feasts of God are a shadow of things to come
Jesus died on Passover.
Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened bread as He was sinless.
Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Firstfruits when He rose from the dead.
The Church began on Pentecost.

Has the fulness of the Gentiles come in? No. When it does it will fulfill the spring and summer harvest feasts.

Then there will be 144,000 that receive the seal of God fulfilling the Feast of New Oil
Then 144,000 first fruits..........each man in his order..........first fruits and then the harvest.
The harvest of 12 tribes will be at the Last Trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, which occurs at the 6th seal.

That leaves the Feast of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and the Feast of Tabernacles (Succoth) when the Millennial kingdom is set up.

Look through the history of Israel and you will find most big events regarding Israel occur on feast days. For instance, the recent war began of October 7, 2023, which is on Yom Kippur, the Feast of Atonement.

• Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests? The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?
• Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the fruit harvest " mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the barley harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is "the wheat harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
• Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the New Testament text or in any rapture passage?
• Where in the New Testament does it say “there are two raptures – grain and fruit”?
• Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?

Why do you not include the Old Testament? Do you not believe the Old Testament is the Word of God?

2 Timothy 2
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[rebuilder 454]

Colossians 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Everyone should understand that the Feasts of God are a shadow of things to come
Jesus died on Passover.
Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened bread as He was sinless.
Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Firstfruits when He rose from the dead.
The Church began on Pentecost.

Has the fulness of the Gentiles come in? No. When it does it will fulfill the spring and summer harvest feasts.

Then there will be 144,000 that receive the seal of God fulfilling the Feast of New Oil
Then 144,000 first fruits..........each man in his order..........first fruits and then the harvest.
The harvest of 12 tribes will be at the Last Trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, which occurs at the 6th seal.

That leaves the Feast of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and the Feast of Tabernacles (Succoth) when the Millennial kingdom is set up.

Look through the history of Israel and you will find most big events regarding Israel occur on feast days. For instance, the recent war began of October 7, 2023, which is on Yom Kippur, the Feast of Atonement.

Why do you not include the Old Testament? Do you not believe the Old Testament is the Word of God?

2 Timothy 2
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I have never seen an amil or a postribber talk about the feasts. I don't think they know anything about it. I don't think they can connect it to end times
And it is to their detriment for sure.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So what chapter and verse is WPM's rapture?

I already told you. Do you not read my posts, either? Revelation 14:14-17 and Revelation 19 (verse 7 in particular talks about the bride being ready for the marriage, so that is when the rapture occurs). I think he agrees with me that it is portrayed in Revelation 11:12, also.

FACT. The Church is not mentioned from Revelation 6-19.

That is 100% FICTION. I showed several places where the church is mentioned in Revelation 6-19 and you did NOTHING to prove otherwise.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How can you deny that those "who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" are in the Church? Are you kidding me? That describes exactly those who are in the Church.

Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

You think "the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus" are not the Church? Get serious! That describes exactly the people who are in the Church. And you think that those who are willing to die for Christ are not in the Church? That's insanity. You believe complete nonsense that blatantly contradicts scripture.

The saints that are mentioned sing the song of Moses as they are of the 12 tribes across the earth. Today's Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.

Why do you have so much trouble being honest? They sing the song of Moses AND the song of the Lamb. Who else but those who are in the Church would sing the song of the Lamb?

Once two raptures come into play, every argument against a pretrib rapture goes up in smoke.

LOL. There is only one rapture. Your beliefs are based only on your imagination.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Colossians 2
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Everyone should understand that the Feasts of God are a shadow of things to come
Jesus died on Passover.
Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened bread as He was sinless.
Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Firstfruits when He rose from the dead.
The Church began on Pentecost.

Has the fulness of the Gentiles come in? No. When it does it will fulfill the spring and summer harvest feasts.

Then there will be 144,000 that receive the seal of God fulfilling the Feast of New Oil
Then 144,000 first fruits..........each man in his order..........first fruits and then the harvest.
The harvest of 12 tribes will be at the Last Trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, which occurs at the 6th seal.

That leaves the Feast of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and the Feast of Tabernacles (Succoth) when the Millennial kingdom is set up.

Look through the history of Israel and you will find most big events regarding Israel occur on feast days. For instance, the recent war began of October 7, 2023, which is on Yom Kippur, the Feast of Atonement.

Why do you not include the Old Testament? Do you not believe the Old Testament is the Word of God?

2 Timothy 2
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

This is all speculation that comes from your imagination. Nowhere does scripture teach two separate harvests/raptures. We are all ONE in Christ. God only has ONE people and they will ALL be raptured at the same time. Your attempts to DIVIDE God's people are completely unbiblical and an insult to Christ's sacrifice that brought Jew and Gentile believers together as ONE BODY (Ephesians 2:11-22).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have never seen an amil or a postribber talk about the feasts. I don't think they know anything about it. I don't think they can connect it to end times
And it is to their detriment for sure.

Nowhere does scripture connect the feasts to end times. That's all in pre-tribs imagination. Don't think it's not noticeable that you are not able to show any scripture which directly links the feasts to end times. It's all made up in your imaginations. Your doctrine is based on fairy tales that you invent in your minds rather than on scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where is the Church mentioned in Revelation 4?

Nowhere, of course. As can be plainly seen, they make everything up. Pre-trib is not based on scripture at all. It is 100% imaginary.

 

[David in NJ]

So what chapter and verse is WPM's rapture?


FACT. The Church is not mentioned from Revelation 6-19. The saints that are mentioned sing the song of Moses as they are of the 12 tribes across the earth. Today's Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.


Once two raptures come into play, every argument against a pretrib rapture goes up in smoke.

The Church is not mentioned from Revelation 6-19

FACT Check: Everyone who is in CHRIST are Members of His Body, His Church, His Bride

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
For in fact the body is not one member but many. - 1 Cor 12:13

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Fake News Check

Pretrib has been totally debunked once again. The fake history presented in the video reference the early Church fathers has been debunked. The Pretrib advocate in the video has been debunked. This is another own goal for Pretrib.

It's getting a bit tiresome destroying pre-trib over and over again. They are too prideful to acknowledge how weak that doctrine is. They have no clear scriptures to base their doctrine on whatsoever. They make utterly ludicrous claims like equating Revelation 4 with the rapture or claiming that the church isn't referenced in Revelation 6-19 and all kinds of fairy tales that they conjure up in their active imaginations.

 

[David in NJ]

I have never seen an amil or a postribber talk about the feasts. I don't think they know anything about it. I don't think they can connect it to end times
And it is to their detriment for sure.

a postribber talk about the feasts.

YES YES YES

All 7 Feasts are in CHRIST

CHRIST is the ULTIMATE Post-Tribber

@The Light

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you not include the Old Testament? Do you not believe the Old Testament is the Word of God?

2 Timothy 2
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The New Testament has a great deal to say about end times doctrine. Why would it say nothing about all those things he asked you about? Were the NT authors somehow not aware of the idea of two raptures and all that nonsense you believe in and that's the only reason they didn't write about it? Paul only wrote about one rapture. Do you think Paul was misinformed?

How about you at least answer the question which wasn't limited to the New Testament:

Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nowhere does scripture connect the feasts to end times. That's all in pre-tribs imagination. Don't think it's not noticeable that you are not able to show any scripture which directly links the feasts to end times. It's all made up in your imaginations. Your doctrine is based on fairy tales that you invent in your minds rather than on scripture.

@David in NJ Why the sad face in response to this post? Do you have any scripture directly relating the feasts to end times? Pre-tribs try to say that the feasts relate to end times and that proves there are two raptures. That is what I'm mainly arguing against, but I don't see any scripture which relates the feasts directly to end times at all, at least in relation to the second coming of Christ. Where do you see that?

 

[David in NJ]

I have never seen an amil or a postribber talk about the feasts. I don't think they know anything about it. I don't think they can connect it to end times
And it is to their detriment for sure.

The Church is not mentioned from Revelation 6-19

FACT Check: Everyone who is in CHRIST are Members of His Body, His Church, His Bride

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
For in fact the body is not one member but many. - 1 Cor 12:13

Can you guys SEE that pre-trib is lying to you when the Scripture clearly states the TRUTH/Facts

 

[WPM]

I have never seen an amil or a postribber talk about the feasts. I don't think they know anything about it. I don't think they can connect it to end times
And it is to their detriment for sure.

LOL. We talk about Christ - the fulfilment of all these. Hello!

 

[marks]

Why do you not include the Old Testament? Do you not believe the Old Testament is the Word of God?

I've found that to be the case also. Those who believe Israel is replaced by the Church (amil, post-trib, etc.) will typically demand all teaching come from the NT. Sometimes they've even demanded I only base my doctrines on certain books, or in one case recently, to a portion of a single chapter.

Given that the same God inspired both, I think we should pay attention to all God has said.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I have never seen an amil or a postribber talk about the feasts. I don't think they know anything about it. I don't think they can connect it to end times
And it is to their detriment for sure.

I don't generally see that either. All these things will harmonize if you have the correct view.

Much love!