prophecy questions about God's Timelines - invitation...

[Truth7t7]

Moses also wrote of the 7's and of the 49's. (Leviticus 25) Daniel and Moses were both talking about the same thing - shemitah. They were not 24-hour days; they were years.

We Disagree

Daniel wrote 70 weeks, if he intended to mean 490 years he would have written (Four Hundred Ninety Years) he didn't, it's that simple

 

[Truth7t7]

Provide us with the name and verbatim quote of one recognized Christian scholar who believes what you do about Daniel's 70 weeks.

Scholar: Daniel

"Seventy Weeks", not "Four Hundred Ninety Years"

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[rwb]

I love Chris; his "Atonement Clock" is an epic.

But the "prince" in Daniel 9:26 is Messiah.

Messiah is the only One identified as a prince in the passage.

I agree! Also love Gedge and his "Atonement Clock" truly is a painstaking epic study. BUT I too identify only one prince in the passage, and He is Messiah who was to come, and the city and temple were destroyed long before 70 AD, by the people of the Messiah Prince, ie the Jews turned the city and temple into an abomination through spiritual apostacy, and spiritual adultery long before Romans finished them off. Christ pronounced their house left a desolation long before the Roman Army came.

 

[ScottA]

All Flesh meaning all saved races, the unsaved wicked isn't going to prophesy, see visions or have dreams, your doctrine is wacked!

Acts 2:17KJV
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

The passage and the word from God is general, all truth. But your interpretation is selective, a half truth.

 

[covenantee]

Scholar: Daniel

"Seventy Weeks", not "Four Hundred Ninety Years"

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Under your regimen, what year (BC or AD) was Messiah cut off (Daniel 9:26)?

 

[Truth7t7]

Under your regimen, what year (BC or AD) was Messiah cut off (Daniel 9:26)?

As was clearly shown, they will build in the "Future" unto Messiah the Prince, when armies surround Jerusalem and the building stops, Messiah is "Cut Off", it's that simple

 

[covenantee]

As was clearly shown, they will build in the "Future" unto Messiah the Prince, when armies surround Jerusalem and the building stops, Messiah is "Cut Off", it's that simple

Messiah was cut off at Calvary.

 

[Truth7t7]

Messiah was cut off at Calvary.

Messiah the Prince will be "Cut Off" when the armies surround a "Future" Jerusalem and the building stops

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[covenantee]

Messiah the Prince will be "Cut Off" when the armies surround a "Future" Jerusalem and the building stops

Jesus Is The Lord

So Messiah will be cut off a second time?

 

[Truth7t7]

So Messiah will be cut off a second time?

The cross of Calvary played no part in fulfillment of Daniel 9:26 as you believe and teach, it's a future event unfulfilled

We Disagree

 

[covenantee]

The cross of Calvary played no part in fulfillment of Daniel 9:26 as you believe and teach, it's a future event unfulfilled

We Disagree

Isaiah wrote:

Isaiah 53
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

He tells us that Messiah was cut off, and this passage is a classic reference to Calvary. So Daniel and Isaiah scripturally interpret one another.

What do you think "cut off" means?

 

[bbyrd009]

so, hopefully it might become apparent at some point that anyone reading/teaching The Rev as if it were a fortune-telling manual for some imaginary tomorrow prolly does not yet understand what "revelation" means; run from these ppl, imo

 

[Truth7t7]

Isaiah wrote:

Isaiah 53
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

He tells us that Messiah was cut off, and this passage is a classic reference to Calvary. So Daniel and Isaiah scripturally interpret one another.

What do you think "cut off" means?

Jesus was "Cut Off" from the land of the living, when he preached to the spirits in prison during his 3 days in the grave, it has absolutely no relationship to Daniel 9:26 as you suggest

1 Peter 3:19KJV
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Ephesians 4:9KJV
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Isaiah 53:8-9KJV
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Jesus was "Cut Off" from the land of the living, when he preached to the spirits in prison during his 3 days in the grave, it has absolutely no relationship to Daniel 9:26 as you suggest

You're a bit of a worry Tr

 

[Truth7t7]

You're a bit of a worry Tr

Christian, those following reformed eschatology are in denial of the fact that Daniel's AOD is a future event, and it hasn't been fulfilled historically as many claim, you can chuckle on the side lines as if I'm the one in error, look at the scripture below as your looking into a mirror of truth before your eyes

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Christian, those following reformed eschatology are in denial of the fact that Daniel's AOD is a future event,

Is Martin Luther the reformist you are disagreeing with? To quote ...

When Christ sent out the Gospel through the ministry of himself and of the Apostles, it lasted three or three and a half years, that it almost amounts to the calculation of Daniel, namely the 490 years. Hence he also says, Christ shall take a half a week, in which the daily offerings shall cease; that is, the priesthood and reign of the Jews shall have an end; which all took place in the three and a half years in which Christ preached, and was almost completed in four years after Christ, in which the Gospel prospered the most, especially in Palestine through the Apostles (that when they opened their mouth, the Holy Ghost fell as it were, from heaven, as we see in the Acts of the Apostles), so that a whole week, or seven years, established the covenant, as Daniel says; that is, the Gospel was preached to the Jews, of which we spoke before.​

​

Now, when the time came that a new message or sermon began, there must also begin a new kingdom, that is, where Christ rules spiritually in our hearts through the Word and faith. If this is now to continue, then the other must be set aside and has no more authority and must cease. This is the part of the prophecy of the prophets, which Christ is explaining. (Sermon on Matthew 24:15-28)​

 

[covenantee]

Jesus was "Cut Off" from the land of the living, when he preached to the spirits in prison during his 3 days in the grave, it has absolutely no relationship to Daniel 9:26 as you suggest

Did He die first, before He began preaching to the spirits?

 

[Truth7t7]

Is Martin Luther the reformist you are disagreeing with? To quote ...

Hence he also says, Christ shall take a half a week, in which the daily offerings shall cease; that is, the priesthood and reign of the Jews shall have an end; which all took place in the three and a half years in which Christ preached,​

Yes Luther's claims concerning Daniel 9:27 are out to Lunch

Luthers event above in red that mentions Daniel 9:27 is future as seen below, read that word "Consummation" again and again, because it's a future event, and didn't take place during the time of Jesus Christ as Luther and reformed eschatology fasley teaches

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

Did He die first, before He began preaching to the spirits?

The death of Jesus Christ in 33AD played absolutely no role in fulfillment of Daniel 9:26-27 "None" its a future event unfulfilled as post #58 above shows "Consummation" future

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[covenantee]

The death of Jesus Christ in 33AD played absolutely no role in fulfillment of Daniel 9:26-27 "None" its a future event unfulfilled as post #58 above shows "Consummation" future

Jesus Is The Lord

Yes, He died, which is what cut off refers to.

Which is what both Isaiah and Daniel prophesied, in agreement with one another.