prophecy questions about God's Timelines - invitation...

[Truth7t7]

I know this is what you believe Scripture tells us 7t7. But, you have not been able to prove what you assume. Where do we find for instance proof for this statement by you "the building is unto Messiah, and this building will stop after 62 weeks, as the building unto Messiah is "Cut Off"?

Nice to see you're reading truth, however wrong forum, feel free to respond in the correct thread

 

[rwb]

Nice to see you're reading truth, however wrong forum, feel free to respond in the correct thread

What are you talking about??? I responded to your reply #73 in this post! And you appear to have a chip on your shoulder, and I can't help but wonder why?

 

[Truth7t7]

What are you talking about??? I responded to your reply #73 in this post! And you appear to have a chip on your shoulder, and I can't help but wonder why?

My Apology

Yes Daniel 9 :24-27 is a future event unfulfilled, the bad guy seen in verse 27 will be on this earth to the "Consummation" the end

To claim this was fulfilled in Jesus Christ in 33 AD is laughable

 

[covenantee]

Daniel 9:24:27 is future, you have joined the reformed eschatology mob in denial

Jeff you sit on the outside looking in, answer the "Consummation" in Daniel 9:27, do you also believe the "He" is Jesus Christ making abomination and desolation "Waiting"?

Isaiah and Daniel were unashamed members of the "reformed eschatology mob". They unanimously proclaimed Christ at Calvary.

Are you going to stop claiming that Messiah will be cut off a second time in your false fantasy future?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

@covenantee: "reformed eschatology mob". They unanimously proclaimed Christ at Calvary.

Did they (as the 'ONE gospel group mob' believes) proclaim Paul's (Mystery) Gospel of Grace =
"Christ 'Died for our sin' and 'Resurrection For our Life,' as The Basis of Forgiveness of sin?

Or:

Did they simply prophesy that Messiah would 'die for His people,' The Gospel Of The
Mystery, being Yet UNknown Until God Revealed It To Paul?

And thus, we "hyper-whatevers? mob" are incorrect, when we see, in Scripture:

TWO Different gospels? Similar to 'seeing' Vast Differences of the representations of
the numbers Twelve And ONE?

 

[jeffweeder]

Daniel 9:24:27 is future, you have joined the reformed eschatology mob in denial

Reformed from what? All I did is read my Bibles.

Jeff you sit on the outside looking in, answer the "Consummation" in Daniel 9:27, do you also believe the "He" is Jesus Christ making abomination and desolation "Waiting"?

Desolations (plural) are decreed all the way until the consummation, once the temple and city are destroyed (which occurred in 70AD).

Blue = Messiah the Prince - red = the other prince who is to come.

26 Then after the sixty-two weeks [of years] the Anointed One will be cut off [and denied His Messianic kingdom] and have nothing [and no one to defend Him], and the people of the [other] prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

27 And he will enter into a binding and irrevocable covenant with the many for one week (seven years), but in the middle of the week he will stop the sacrifice and grain offering [for the remaining three and one-half years]; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until the complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who causes the horror.”

 

[Christian Gedge]

New Amplified Bible (2015 Edition) Well done!

Then after the sixty-two weeks [of years] the Anointed One will be cut off

7t7 not pleased.

 

[rwb]

My Apology

Yes Daniel 9 :24-27 is a future event unfulfilled, the bad guy seen in verse 27 will be on this earth to the "Consummation" the end

To claim this was fulfilled in Jesus Christ in 33 AD is laughable

Again 7t7, you've made clear what you believe, but how shall anyone believe you have correct understanding if you fail to provide Scripture proof for what you allege?

 

[Truth7t7]

New Amplified Bible (2015 Edition) Well done!


7t7 not pleased.

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[rwb]

@covenantee: "reformed eschatology mob". They unanimously proclaimed Christ at Calvary.

Did they (as the 'ONE gospel group mob' believes) proclaim Paul's (Mystery) Gospel of Grace =
"Christ 'Died for our sin' and 'Resurrection For our Life,' as The Basis of Forgiveness of sin?

Or:

Did they simply prophesy that Messiah would 'die for His people,' The Gospel Of The
Mystery, being Yet UNknown Until God Revealed It To Paul?

And thus, we "hyper-whatevers? mob" are incorrect, when we see, in Scripture:

TWO Different gospels? Similar to 'seeing' Vast Differences of the representations of
the numbers Twelve And ONE?

Grace, John writes that when the seventh angel begins to sound that there should be time no longer, is also when the mystery of God He has declared to His servants the prophets should be finished. When trying to determine exactly what the mystery is, we need to remember it will be finished when time is no more.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The mystery, according to Paul, is that Gentiles of faith would be included in salvation, and be part of the Kingdom of God with the Jews of faith as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all nations. Prior to the advent of Christ, it was believed that salvation and the Kingdom of God was exclusively for the Jews of faith. Most Gentiles, prior to the sending of the Gospel to them, had no understanding of Messiah who would come and through faith in Him provide a way of eternal life in the Kingdom of God for even them if they believe in Christ.

Romans 11:25 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ephesians 3:3-7 (KJV) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8-9 (KJV) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Colossians 1:26-27 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The same one Gospel of Christ, once hidden from other nations, made known through the Law and the Prophets of old to Israel alone. Now, since the advent of Christ has been revealed to peoples throughout the earth, and whosoever ever by grace through faith believes the Gospel of Christ shall have eternal life through Him.

When the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, after the last Gentile to be saved comes into the Kingdom, then time given this earth for proclaming the Gospel shall be no more.

 

[Truth7t7]

Again 7t7, you've made clear what you believe, but how shall anyone believe you have correct understanding if you fail to provide Scripture proof for what you allege?

We Disagree

Daniel wrote 70 weeks, if he intended to mean 490 years he would have written (Four Hundred Ninety Years) he didn't, it's that simple

 

[rwb]

We Disagree

Daniel wrote 70 weeks, if he intended to mean 490 years he would have written (Four Hundred Ninety Years) he didn't, it's that simple

Yes, it seems we must disagree. It seems you are not able to prove what you allege.

 

[Truth7t7]

Grace, John writes that when the seventh angel begins to sound that there should be time no longer, is also when the mystery of God He has declared to His servants the prophets should be finished. When trying to determine exactly what the mystery is, we need to remember it will be finished when time is no more.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The mystery, according to Paul, is that Gentiles of faith would be included in salvation, and be part of the Kingdom of God with the Jews of faith as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all nations. Prior to the advent of Christ, it was believed that salvation and the Kingdom of God was exclusively for the Jews of faith. Most Gentiles, prior to the sending of the Gospel to them, had no understanding of Messiah who would come and through faith in Him provide a way of eternal life in the Kingdom of God for even them if they believe in Christ.

Romans 11:25 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ephesians 3:3-7 (KJV) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8-9 (KJV) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Colossians 1:26-27 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The same one Gospel of Christ, once hidden from other nations, made known through the Law and the Prophets of old to Israel alone. Now, since the advent of Christ has been revealed to peoples throughout the earth, and whosoever ever by grace through faith believes the Gospel of Christ shall have eternal life through Him.

When the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, after the last Gentile to be saved comes into the Kingdom, then time given this earth for proclaming the Gospel shall be no more.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[covenantee]

We Disagree

Daniel wrote 70 weeks, if he intended to mean 490 years he would have written (Four Hundred Ninety Years) he didn't, it's that simple

Messiah was cut off in the midst of Daniel's 70th week, not in your false fantasy future.

Messiah is not cut off again.

But your interpretation is.

 

[rwb]

1 Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Yes, another passage showing the mystery, when all believers, both Jew and Gentile together are bodily resurrected to immortality and incorruptible at the hour that is coming on the last day when time given to this earth shall be no longer.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. The mystery of salvation come to whosoever believes as the churches are sent out unto all the world with the message of Christ, the Gospel. Through which both Jews and Gentiles of faith will together be one body in Christ.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 (KJV) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 1:20 (KJV) The mystery of the seven stars which t hou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (KJV) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Keraz]

Yes, another passage showing the mystery, when all believers, both Jew and Gentile together are bodily resurrected to immortality and incorruptible at the hour that is coming on the last day when time given to this earth shall be no longer.

The Last Day, which will be after the Millennium. THEN comes the new heavens and earth; the Spiritual Eternity.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Last Day, which will be after the Millennium. THEN comes the new heavens and earth; the Spiritual Eternity.

Your claim is false, the resurrection of all that have lived will take place at the second coming, on the last day

Daniel 12:1-2 below clearly teaches that this resurrection of all takes place at the time of the great tribulation, when the book of life is open at the final judgement, not 1,000 years after it as you falsely claim

"AT THAT TIME"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[rwb]

The Last Day, which will be after the Millennium. THEN comes the new heavens and earth; the Spiritual Eternity.

The last day will be after a/the thousand years because a/the thousand years equates to TIME given this earth as the Church builds the Kingdom of God in heaven as She proclaims the Gospel unto all the nations of the world. When the seventh trumpet begins to sound, TIME for this earth shall be no longer. Then comes the new heavens and new earth which will be as in the beginning a physical reality with humankind changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible.

 

[rwb]

Your claim is false, the resurrection of all that have lived will take place at the second coming, on the last day

Daniel 12:1-2 below clearly teaches that this resurrection of all takes place at the time of the great tribulation, when the book of life is open at the final judgement, not 1,000 years after it as you falsely claim

"AT THAT TIME"

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Truth7t7, do you view Daniel's prophecy as the whole Gospel age? I view it as the Messianic era that began with the first advent of Christ, when only many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth were awakened after Christ's resurrection and ascended to heaven with Him. I believe Daniel's prophecy covers the whole New Covenant era of sending out the Gospel that would bring a time of trouble, or "great tribulation" to the Church on earth.

On the last day ALL the bodies of the saints will be resurrected. Even the bodies of those who have done evil will be resurrected for damnation.

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

If Daniel's prophetic words were pointing to the last day of time given this earth, it would be to late for the wise to shine and turn many to righteousness. That's why Daniel is told the prophecy shall be to the time of the end during which time knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:3-4 (KJV) And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[Truth7t7]

Truth7t7, do you view Daniel's prophecy as the whole Gospel age? I view it as the Messianic era that began with the first advent of Christ, when only many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth were awakened after Christ's resurrection and ascended to heaven with Him. I believe Daniel's prophecy covers the whole New Covenant era of sending out the Gospel that would bring a time of trouble, or "great tribulation" to the Church on earth.

On the last day ALL the bodies of the saints will be resurrected. Even the bodies of those who have done evil will be resurrected for damnation.

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

If Daniel's prophetic words were pointing to the last day of time given this earth, it would be to late for the wise to shine and turn many to righteousness. That's why Daniel is told the prophecy shall be to the time of the end during which time knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:3-4 (KJV) And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

"Future Events"

Daniel 7:8-11 shows the future antichrist/little horn, the second coming and final judgment

Daniel 9:24-27 shows this same evil figure, and the sign of his coming appearance will be when Israel give a command to start building, it will be Messianic hype I believe, this will stir the world Muslim population as the time mount us currently their 2nd holiest site

Daniel 11:36-37 explains this same evil figure, and it identifies his as a King/Ruler of Jewish/Hebrew decent "God Of His Fathers" the true Hebrew God