Question For JW's

[DavidB]

Untrue.

I prefer to reference several translations, none of which is JW. Depending on the verse, no one translation appeals to me most.

Because I am not into ancient languages, I rely more than most on the translators expertise. Bottom line: the JW translation is superior than most in the most important way; they don’t jettison the personal name of God, who chose to include his personal name some 7,000 times (hint: it is not ‘Jesus’).

I know you are very passionate about this and truly want your take in any translation you prefer of psalm 110:1?

I really appreciate your conviction about God’s name. I’m sure Jehovah notices and appreciates it also. Any who defend or even accept the replacement of the Tetragrammaton with Adonai or Elohim have not even reached the starting line for learning truth.

 

[Jack]

There are people who will choose to believe lies, that's their choice. Those that say human beings have living souls instead of teaching human beings are living souls are choosing to believe a lie.

You're a Kingdom Hall victim. You avoid Scripture like plague.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You're a Kingdom Hall victim. You avoid Scripture like plague.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Actually Jack you're the victim. The scripture at Genesis 2:7 is very clear and the majority of the people, don't want to believe what the True God YHWH inspired Moses to write down. Genesis 2:7 doesn't say human beings have living souls or living persons in their flesh and blood human bodies, but instead, clearly teach us that human beings are, living souls or living persons

 

[Jack]

Actually Jack you're the victim. The scripture at Genesis 2:7 is very clear and the majority of the people, don't want to believe what the True God YHWH inspired Moses to write down. Genesis 2:7 doesn't say human beings have living souls or living persons in their flesh and blood human bodies, but instead, clearly teach us that human beings are, living souls or living persons

Why don't you quote the Scriptures? You need permission from Kingdom Hall? Let us know what Kingdom Hall tells you to tell us. Has Kingdom Hall ever been wrong Barney? Tell us when!

 

[Wrangler]

Please pay attention! Even the NWT says JW's are WRONG! You don't have a Bible to support Kingdom Hall!

1st, that doesn't answer my question about Ps 110:1.

(I guessed we'd have to add that to the list of questions you do not answer for it exposes the error of your belief)

2nd, I saw that you posted this many times but with no foundation. How, specifically, does he NWT says JW's are WRONG?

 

[Wrangler]

I really appreciate your conviction about God’s name. I’m sure Jehovah notices and appreciates it also.

Thank you.

I pride myself in being committed to the truth - even if it is politically incorrect, goes against the majority, etc. Last year I realized the truth of Jehovah witnesses, that most translations remove God's personal name. I read 2 Bibles cover to cover, NLT and CEV and did not realize the personal name of Jesus' God.

In the introduction, the NLT explains they replace YHWH with LORD (capital) but after reading 66 books, I forgot that detail, seeing 'LORD' so many times, I at least distinguished it from lowercase lord. Still, I credit @Aunty Jane with explaining how neither of these is a personal name but a title. As I read the NRSV, I made a note of how many lowercase lords are identified. The answer is dozens.

Even the word, capital-God is misleading. The abuse of capital letters of things having to do with YHWH does not change the fact that they are common words. God, like man are a type of life form and not a personal name for an individual member of that life form. A couple of years ago Ps 82 CEV translation was the verse of the year for me. It hit me like a ton of bricks and I meditated on it frequently. When all the other gods have come together, the LORD God judges them. This acknowledges other REAL lowercase-gods.

This proves the Bible's use of the word god and lord is not what Christendom espouses! It is also an excellent justification for using the indefinite article "a" before god as it pertains to an utterance, a word in John 1:1 for words are WHAT's not WHO's. And Ps 82 proves that even when referring to WHO's the text can still be referring to a REAL lowercase-god.

Of vital importance, is our Lord Jesus relied on Ps 82:6 to defend his claim of being the son of god. Again, this is affirmation of REAL lowercase-gods, in opposition of what Christendom espouses. For my part, I will rely on what David wrote in Psalms and Jesus said about REAL lowercase-gods even if it puts me in opposition to the majority, who I consider to be in the dark. When confronted with these truths, their ignorance often shines in the form of threats.

Going back to the abuse of capital letters, expressing existence, 'I am' takes the cake. That trinitarians devote themselves to Ex 3:14 while completely ignoring YHWH saying in v15 this is his name to be remembered for all generations is a frightful display of Willful Ignorance.

Any who defend or even accept the replacement of the Tetragrammaton with Adonai or Elohim have not even reached the starting line for learning truth.

Hmmm. I hadn't thought about that. My genesis was hearing the 1C as I sat alone as a 10 yo with no family members in a RCC Mass. The singular pronoun "me" is at odds with the apoplectic reliance trinitarians have with "our" image is made man. Whereas, who YHWH was talking to in making man is unstated, there is no denying the significance of the 1C - God is a singular being. (Conclusion, the trinity is an obvious fraud.)

It is so important God put it first! Sad that it took me over 4 decades to realize this "me" is named YHWH, Jehovah, if you prefer.

 

[DavidB]

Thank you.

I pride myself in being committed to the truth - even if it is politically incorrect, goes against the majority, etc. Last year I realized the truth of Jehovah witnesses, that most translations remove God's personal name. I read 2 Bibles cover to cover, NLT and CEV and did not realize the personal name of Jesus' God.

In the introduction, the NLT explains they replace YHWH with LORD (capital) but after reading 66 books, I forgot that detail, seeing 'LORD' so many times, I at least distinguished it from lowercase lord. Still, I credit @Aunty Jane with explaining how neither of these is a personal name but a title. As I read the NRSV, I made a note of how many lowercase lords are identified. The answer is dozens.

Even the word, capital-God is misleading. The abuse of capital letters of things having to do with YHWH does not change the fact that they are common words. God, like man are a type of life form and not a personal name for an individual member of that life form. A couple of years ago Ps 82 CEV translation was the verse of the year for me. It hit me like a ton of bricks and I meditated on it frequently. When all the other gods have come together, the LORD God judges them. This acknowledges other REAL lowercase-gods.

This proves the Bible's use of the word god and lord is not what Christendom espouses! It is also an excellent justification for using the indefinite article "a" before god as it pertains to an utterance, a word in John 1:1 for words are WHAT's not WHO's. And Ps 82 proves that even when referring to WHO's the text can still be referring to a REAL lowercase-god.

Of vital importance, is our Lord Jesus relied on Ps 82:6 to defend his claim of being the son of god. Again, this is affirmation of REAL lowercase-gods, in opposition of what Christendom espouses. For my part, I will rely on what David wrote in Psalms and Jesus said about REAL lowercase-gods even if it puts me in opposition to the majority, who I consider to be in the dark. When confronted with these truths, their ignorance often shines in the form of threats.

Going back to the abuse of capital letters, expressing existence, 'I am' takes the cake. That trinitarians devote themselves to Ex 3:14 while completely ignoring YHWH saying in v15 this is his name to be remembered for all generations is a frightful display of Willful Ignorance.



Hmmm. I hadn't thought about that. My genesis was hearing the 1C as I sat alone as a 10 yo with no family members in a RCC Mass. The singular pronoun "me" is at odds with the apoplectic reliance trinitarians have with "our" image is made man. Whereas, who YHWH was talking to in making man is unstated, there is no denying the significance of the 1C - God is a singular being. (Conclusion, the trinity is an obvious fraud.)

It is so important God put it first! Sad that it took me over 4 decades to realize this "me" is named YHWH, Jehovah, if you prefer.

The misuse of capitalization is telling regarding Exodus 3:14. There “I Am” is a title so translators are justified to capitalize it in English. It gets interesting though at John 8:58 where many translators (though likely trinitarian) do not use capital letters. This shows they do not consider Jesus to be claiming Godship.

 

[DavidB]

Thank you.

I pride myself in being committed to the truth - even if it is politically incorrect, goes against the majority, etc. Last year I realized the truth of Jehovah witnesses, that most translations remove God's personal name. I read 2 Bibles cover to cover, NLT and CEV and did not realize the personal name of Jesus' God.

In the introduction, the NLT explains they replace YHWH with LORD (capital) but after reading 66 books, I forgot that detail, seeing 'LORD' so many times, I at least distinguished it from lowercase lord. Still, I credit @Aunty Jane with explaining how neither of these is a personal name but a title. As I read the NRSV, I made a note of how many lowercase lords are identified. The answer is dozens.

Even the word, capital-God is misleading. The abuse of capital letters of things having to do with YHWH does not change the fact that they are common words. God, like man are a type of life form and not a personal name for an individual member of that life form. A couple of years ago Ps 82 CEV translation was the verse of the year for me. It hit me like a ton of bricks and I meditated on it frequently. When all the other gods have come together, the LORD God judges them. This acknowledges other REAL lowercase-gods.

This proves the Bible's use of the word god and lord is not what Christendom espouses! It is also an excellent justification for using the indefinite article "a" before god as it pertains to an utterance, a word in John 1:1 for words are WHAT's not WHO's. And Ps 82 proves that even when referring to WHO's the text can still be referring to a REAL lowercase-god.

Of vital importance, is our Lord Jesus relied on Ps 82:6 to defend his claim of being the son of god. Again, this is affirmation of REAL lowercase-gods, in opposition of what Christendom espouses. For my part, I will rely on what David wrote in Psalms and Jesus said about REAL lowercase-gods even if it puts me in opposition to the majority, who I consider to be in the dark. When confronted with these truths, their ignorance often shines in the form of threats.

Going back to the abuse of capital letters, expressing existence, 'I am' takes the cake. That trinitarians devote themselves to Ex 3:14 while completely ignoring YHWH saying in v15 this is his name to be remembered for all generations is a frightful display of Willful Ignorance.



Hmmm. I hadn't thought about that. My genesis was hearing the 1C as I sat alone as a 10 yo with no family members in a RCC Mass. The singular pronoun "me" is at odds with the apoplectic reliance trinitarians have with "our" image is made man. Whereas, who YHWH was talking to in making man is unstated, there is no denying the significance of the 1C - God is a singular being. (Conclusion, the trinity is an obvious fraud.)

It is so important God put it first! Sad that it took me over 4 decades to realize this "me" is named YHWH, Jehovah, if you prefer.

Don’t feel bad about the 4 decades. Few ever realize it. In fact, I very much suspect that you would not have gotten there without Jehovah’s spirit guiding you. The Bible can be like a puzzle. Once we see the truth on one subject, often other truths begin to fall into view. This is what we have experienced over the past 100 plus years. Many criticize us for that. I am grateful to be separated from the lies of Christendom and still finding what the Bible really teaches.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

FYI:

 

[L.A.M.B.]

They will not LISTEN NOR HEAR YOU ,Jack.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Why don't you quote the Scriptures? You need permission from Kingdom Hall? Let us know what Kingdom Hall tells you to tell us. Has Kingdom Hall ever been wrong Barney? Tell us when!

I'm not going to just quote scripture but instead I'm going to quote scripture, which I've done many times before but I'm also going to reason on the scriptures I quote. Jesus reasoned on the scriptures, he didn't just quote scripture. I'm not going to allow someone to tell me I can only quote scripture and not reason on the scripture I quoted. I've quoted Genesis 2:7 many times from the king James version of the scriptures which says, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Nowhere in this scripture of the king James Version of the scriptures does it say that God Gave man a living soul, it says, man Became a living soul.
The description concerning man's creation at Genesis 2:7 is in harmony with scientific truth. All the elements of which the human body is composed of are to be found in the “dust from the ground.” So when the scriptures say man Became a living soul or living person it's saying the flesh and blood body that God formed from the dust of the ground became a living soul or living person.

 

[Aunty Jane]

They will not LISTEN NOR HEAR YOU ,Jack.View attachment 26616

Have you ever asked Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves about these things? Or would you rather listen to people like Jack who presents themselves as hateful bigots whose knowledge of scripture wouldn’t fill a thimble? They just parrot what other haters have told them.

It’s easy to copy and paste someone else’s criticism, but are these valid? What do you really know about why JW’s do not accept Christendom’s teachings as genuine “Christianity”?

I was raised in Christendom, and the times I spent in church were mainly observing the hypocrisy of those who picked their “Christianity” up at the door and left it there on their way out.

No one ever explained the teachings but just expected me to accept them on their say-so because it was the general teachings of the majority of Christendom’s churches, across the board. But looking at the scriptures, I came to realise that the churches were all just picking and choosing what they would, and would not do, with regard to the commands that Jesus left to his disciples. They were not following Christ’s teachings at all, just pretending to.

Who condemns us as a cult? Christendom? Who condemned Jesus as the leader of an apostate sect, which today would be deemed a cult? Judaism. Did it make Jesus wrong, and them right just because of what the majority were taught to believe? (Matthew 15:7-9)

We can give you valid scriptural reasons for all that we believe and practice....can you?

When Jesus comes to judge the world, “many” of those who are confident of their relationship with Christ will be in for a very rude awakening. (Matthew 7:21-23) They will receive a rejection that they are not expecting and they will even offer excuses to Jesus in all the works they did ‘in his name’......yet his judgment is final. “I NEVER knew you”.

None of us can say that “we are right and you are wrong”.....all we can do is study the Bible and ask for God’s spirit to direct us. If we have a heart that is teachable (like a young child) Jehovah will draw us to have the correct view of Himself and his relationship with his precious son. (John 6:44; 65)

God’s relationship with Israel mirrors his relationship with Christendom. What happened to Israel? They stubbornly held on to the errors of the Pharisees and lost their place in God’s Kingdom. The devil has no new tricks...the old ones still work for him.

If we are not teachable, but stubbornly hang on to false teachings, we will have no part with God or his future plans for life on planet Earth....his special gift to mankind. He did not put us here to train us for heaven. This was to be our permanent home and all that has transpired here was for restoring God’s first purpose in creating us humans to live here, forever. We were put here to represent our Creator in caring for all that he worked hard to produce. It was to be an everlasting assignment and a very enjoyable one....but free will was abused and we are living in the most important object lesson that Jehovah will ever conduct. The conclusion is bearing down on all of us right now.

We invite you to just ask us why we don’t believe as Christendom does, and check with the Bible to see if it is valid. Jehovah will do the rest.....because, as we speak, Jesus is busy separating the “sheep” from the “goats”....only at the judgment will we know if we have individually and collectively placed our faith and hope in the right place......God’s worshippers have never been in the majority.....satan owns them.
There is no safety in numbers or in labels. Yet Jehovah’s people have always been a collective. Individuals within that collective have failed but the collective itself has remained intact. (1 Corinthians 1:10) They cannot be divided in beliefs or practices, which is why Christendom disqualifies itself.

I have been on both sides of this fence and I know in my heart which side has the truth....and the unity that God’s spirit promotes. They were to expect strong opposition for living up to the name “Christian”. (John 15:18-21)

 

[Wrangler]

The misuse of capitalization is telling regarding Exodus 3:14. There “I Am” is a title

No, another trinitarian lie. "I am" is not a title but a common expression still used today.

There is no ‘great I am’ in Scripture and neither God nor Jesus ever actually said it. In answering Moses’ question, God 1st articulated his eternal nature. (This is why the VOICE translation uses the term ‘eternal’ for god.) There is something lost in the Hebrew to English translation of the indefinite verb of existing, to be. Who Moses is speaking to in Ex 3:14 is eternal, which differentiated him from other known gods of various regions. However, being eternal is a property of existence, not a personal name.

The Complete Jewish Bible renders the Hebrew as precisely as possible to English to ‘I am/will be what I am/will be.’

13 Moshe said to God, “Look, when I appear before the people of Isra’el and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you’; and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?” 14 God said to Moshe, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I am/will be what I am/will be],” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I Am or I Will Be] has sent me to you.’”​

I love the VOICE translation. Their choice to refer to God as the Eternal emphasizes his unique attribute, an attribute not shared with Jesus since Scripture records he died. That Jesus died is the demonstrable fact proving he is not the eternal God. Here trinitarians embrace another pagan notion of the Phoenix, except the Scriptural support for a Phoenix God is specious.

 

[Wrangler]

FYI:

So what if JW's refuse blood transfusions?

I agree their reasoning is weak. However, the argument that the Bible compels consumption of blood through transfers is even weaker.

Most importantly, their moral stand on the issue is not doctrine. This begs the question of why is it used by you as fodder to pressure them into submission?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Have you ever asked Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves about these things? Or would you rather listen to people like Jack who presents themselves as a hateful bigots whose knowledge of scripture wouldn’t fill a thimble? They just parrot what other haters have told them.

It’s easy to copy and paste someone else’s criticism, but are these valid? What do you really know about why JW’s do not accept Christendom’s teachings as genuine “Christianity”?

I was raised in Christendom, and the times I spent in church were mainly observing the hypocrisy of those who picked their “Christianity” up at the door and left it there on their way out.

No one ever explained the teachings but just expected me to accept them on their say-so because it was the general teachings of the majority of Christendom’s churches, across the board. But looking at the scriptures, I came to realise that the churches were all just picking and choosing what they would, and would not do, with regard to the commands that Jesus left to his disciples. They were not following Christ’s teachings at all, just pretending to.

Who condemns us as a cult? Christendom? Who condemned Jesus as the leader of an apostate sect, which today would be deemed a cult? Judaism. Did it make Jesus wrong, and them right just because of what the majority were taught to believe? (Matthew 15:7-9)

We can give you valid scriptural reasons for all that we believe and practice....can you?

When Jesus comes to judge the world, those who are confident of their relationship with Christ will be in for a very rude awakening. (Matthew 7:21-23) They will receive a rejection that they are not expecting and they will even offer excuses to Jesus in all the works they did in his name......yet his judgment is final. “I NEVER knew you”.

None of us can say that “we are right and you are wrong”.....all we can do is study the Bible and ask for God’s spirit to direct us. If we have a heart that is teachable (like a young child) Jehovah will draw us to have the correct view of Himself and his relationship with his precious son. (John 6:44; 65)

God’s relationship with Israel mirrors his relationship with Christendom. What happened to Israel? They stubbornly held on to the errors of the Pharisees and lost their place in God’s Kingdom. The devil has no new tricks...the old ones still work for him.

If we are not teachable, but stubbornly hang on to false teachings, we will have no part with God or his future plans for life on planet Earth....his special gift to mankind. He did not put us here to train us for heaven. This was to be our permanent home and all that has transpired here was for restoring God’s first purpose in creating us humans to live here, forever. We were put here to represent our Creator in caring for all that he worked hard to produce. It was to be an everlasting assignment and a very enjoyable one....but free will was abused and we are living in the most important object lesson that Jehovah will ever conduct. The conclusion is bearing down on all of us right now.

We invite you just ask us why we don’t believe as Christendom does, and check with the Bible to see if it is valid. Jehovah will do the rest.....because, as we speak, Jesus is busy separating the “sheep” from the “goats”....only at the judgment will we know if we have individually and collectively placed our faith and hope in the right place......God’s worshippers have never been in the majority.....satan owns them.
There is no safety in numbers or in labels. Yet Jehovah’s people have always been a collective. Individuals within that collective have failed but the collective itself has remained intact. (1 Corinthians 1:10) They cannot be divided in beliefs or practices, which is why Christendom disqualifies itself.

I have been on both sides of this fence and I know in my heart which side has the truth....and the unity that God’s spirit promotes. They were to expect strong opposition for living up to the name “Christian”. (John 15:18-21)

When I was going to christendom churches they just expected me to simply agree with them, they certainly didn't teach me anything, especially nothing about the trinity doctrine. What I don't like the most I guess is people in christendom only want me to quote scripture but not reason on the scripture that is quoted. I've never understood that when going to christendom churches, that I was simply to blindly believe what somebody said about a scripture.

 

[DavidB]

No, another trinitarian lie. "I am" is not a title but a common expression still used today.

There is no ‘great I am’ in Scripture and neither God nor Jesus ever actually said it. In answering Moses’ question, God 1st articulated his eternal nature. (This is why the VOICE translation uses the term ‘eternal’ for god.) There is something lost in the Hebrew to English translation of the indefinite verb of existing, to be. Who Moses is speaking to in Ex 3:14 is eternal, which differentiated him from other known gods of various regions. However, being eternal is a property of existence, not a personal name.

The Complete Jewish Bible renders the Hebrew as precisely as possible to English to ‘I am/will be what I am/will be.’

13 Moshe said to God, “Look, when I appear before the people of Isra’el and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you’; and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?” 14 God said to Moshe, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I am/will be what I am/will be],” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I Am or I Will Be] has sent me to you.’”​

I love the VOICE translation. Their choice to refer to God as the Eternal emphasizes his unique attribute, an attribute not shared with Jesus since Scripture records he died. That Jesus died is the demonstrable fact proving he is not the eternal God. Here trinitarians embrace another pagan notion of the Phoenix, except the Scriptural support for a Phoenix God is specious.

I agree that the better translation is I will be. The NWT says ““I Will Become What I Choose to Become.” This has far greater meaning than saying God is eternal. That is how trinitarians try to give meaning to “I Am.” Anyone can be described as I am that I am. But who has the power to become whatever he chooses to be? Only the Almighty God can be so described. However, both the NWT and the Voice and about every other English translation I can check does capitalize this indicating it is a title. Not his name, but a title. It has nothing remotely to do with John 8:58. There ego eimi is as you say, just a very common expression and is better translated there as “I have been” or “ I existed.”

 

[Wrangler]

However, both the NWT and the Voice and about every other English translation I can check does capitalize this indicating it is a title. Not his name, but a title.

Capitalization does not signify title but proper nouns, doesn’t it?

 

[Jack]

How, specifically, does he NWT says JW's are WRONG?

Already posted it several times. Will you pay attention this time?

 

[Jack]

I'm not going to just quote scripture but instead I'm going to quote scripture, which I've done many times before but I'm also going to reason on the scriptures I quote. Jesus reasoned on the scriptures, he didn't just quote scripture. I'm not going to allow someone to tell me I can only quote scripture and not reason on the scripture I quoted. I've quoted Genesis 2:7 many times from the king James version of the scriptures which says, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Nowhere in this scripture of the king James Version of the scriptures does it say that God Gave man a living soul, it says, man Became a living soul.
The description concerning man's creation at Genesis 2:7 is in harmony with scientific truth. All the elements of which the human body is composed of are to be found in the “dust from the ground.” So when the scriptures say man Became a living soul or living person it's saying the flesh and blood body that God formed from the dust of the ground became a living soul or living person.

How long were you brainwashed by Kingdom Hall?

 

[Jack]

Are the JW's right about anything? Is your Bible (translation) wrong about anything?

For instance, they taught me most translations removed God's personal name from the Bible some 7,000 times. Doesn't that disturb you at all? If you wrote a book, would it disturb you if your name was removed from it by future generations?

You sound so JW.