Question For JW's
- Thread starter Jack
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And you say I have reading comprehension problems? Is there any verse in the Bible that JW's don't TWIST?
See how you can twist this:
Jeremiah 17
10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.
Revelation 2
'These things says the Son of God, … 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Pot calling kettle black. You quote verses that don't even have Jesus in it, claim it refers to Jesus, then say I am twisting Scripture.
You can't make this stuff up. Meanwhile, Jesus says he has a God who is the only true God and that means nothing to you, twist that to mean, what again?
Gee, you didn't tell us Who the Child is called "Mighty God" and everlasting Father.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I posted the link multiple times. Try reading it.
Sixteen different Christian denominations, all came together and translated Isaiah 9:6:
“For a child has been born to us, a son is given to us; he will bear the symbol of dominion on his shoulder, and his title will be: Wonderful counsellor, Mighty Hero, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace” [6]
Sixteen different Christian denominations coming together and stating “el gibor” does not mean “Mighty God.” According to them”El gibor” means “Mighty hero” when used for Isaiah 9:6.
Notice how the above verse (Ezekiel 32:21) has the exact words as Isaiah 9:6, but in plural. Since the words “El” and “gibor” are used simultaneously together, should the people referred to be Divine like Yahweh? Isaiah 9:6, and Ezekiel are both the same, except in Ezekiel 32:21 it is used in plural. If Christian trinitarians are truthful and consistent, why don’t they write in their Bible translations “MIGHTY GODS” in capital letters for Ezekiel 32:21?
There are some trinitarians who will try to argue and say, ‘actually they are not ‘Gods’, since they were Gentiles, Heathen Kings.’ These type of arguments apologists cling on to have no basis whatsoever. It doesn’t matter if the people were not believers, gentiles or heathens etc. Fact of the matter remains they were called “Ele Giborim” (‘Mighty Gods’). If Apologists continue to say “Isaiah 9:6 proves the Child is God”, then Christian apologists, at-least be truthful with yourselves, and start making the heathen Kings GODS as well, since both passages, Isaiah 9:6, and Ezekiel 32:21 use the exact same words.
2. Isaiah 9:6 is not talking about a future prophecy
2. 1 JPS Isaiah 9:6 – For a Child has been born to us, a son has been given to us and authority has settled on his shoulders.
“For a child has been born to us, a son is given to us; he will bear the symbol of dominion on his shoulder, and his title will be: Wonderful counsellor, Mighty Hero, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace” [6]
Sixteen different Christian denominations coming together and stating “el gibor” does not mean “Mighty God.” According to them”El gibor” means “Mighty hero” when used for Isaiah 9:6.
Notice how the above verse (Ezekiel 32:21) has the exact words as Isaiah 9:6, but in plural. Since the words “El” and “gibor” are used simultaneously together, should the people referred to be Divine like Yahweh? Isaiah 9:6, and Ezekiel are both the same, except in Ezekiel 32:21 it is used in plural. If Christian trinitarians are truthful and consistent, why don’t they write in their Bible translations “MIGHTY GODS” in capital letters for Ezekiel 32:21?
There are some trinitarians who will try to argue and say, ‘actually they are not ‘Gods’, since they were Gentiles, Heathen Kings.’ These type of arguments apologists cling on to have no basis whatsoever. It doesn’t matter if the people were not believers, gentiles or heathens etc. Fact of the matter remains they were called “Ele Giborim” (‘Mighty Gods’). If Apologists continue to say “Isaiah 9:6 proves the Child is God”, then Christian apologists, at-least be truthful with yourselves, and start making the heathen Kings GODS as well, since both passages, Isaiah 9:6, and Ezekiel 32:21 use the exact same words.
2. Isaiah 9:6 is not talking about a future prophecy
2. 1 JPS Isaiah 9:6 – For a Child has been born to us, a son has been given to us and authority has settled on his shoulders.
I just checked over 20 English translations and they all say "God" not Hero. Which clearly shows how Kingdom Hall attacks our Bible deceitfully! Even the NWT admits it says "Mighty God"! It also calls Jesus "My Lord and my God".
Why are JW's obsessed with rewriting our Bible? Seems just like something Satan would do. If Kingdom Hall wants to rewrite our Bible they should fix their own NWT first, that says they're wrong.
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Who was, has been, born in the days of Isaiah, 700 years before Christ.
Yes, the article explains many trinitarian translations say God but others say hero.
Another point of deception in Christiandom is the denial of many REAL lowercase gods. Our lord relied on Ps 82:6 to defend his claim of being the son of god. Check it out.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Because truth is important. Abuse of capitalization does not automatically mean all capitalizations are titles.
Why is it important that a common expression is a title?
I don't know that I'd be presenting the NLT as a more accurate translation.
And why do you denigrate @Jack 's reading comprehension?
It's what the text says.
Notice the difference from the NLT?
In fact, Jesus said that no one has come down from Heaven except the Son of Man the one being in the heaven. Is the only way one can understand the verse is to change it?
What if we left it saying exactly what it says, and go from there?
Why not just believe it? That's what I do.
Much love!
If you are called the chief executive it does make you POTUS. And Jesus is the Lord from heaven. Who do you suppose that is?
How many "Lords of Heaven" are you visualizing?
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I know you so desperately want to equate being a lord with being the all-powerful Creator of all. They are just not equal at all.
There are 2 lords of the Sith. Doesn't make them God.
Jesus and every other lord who was created was given authority by God. Doesn't make them God.
I'm not asking about "lords of the Sith", whatever that is, I'm asking you who the Lord of heaven is. Are you defining God according to your "sith"? What is a "sith"?
I suppose from your answer that you think God has appointed a number of "lords of heaven", however, Scripture references "the lord of heaven" as though there is one Lord. That reminds me of another passage.
Ephesians 4:5 KJV
5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
So yes, there are lords many, and gods many . . . but only One true Lord over all, and one true God.
Jesus was given authority because He first humbled Himself, first became obedient, first took on the form of a servant. Who was He before, that He was sovereign, that he was glorious, that He was Lord? The Lord of heaven.
Projecting some "desperation" is fully inaccurate.
As always, I'm just pointing to the text and counseling to believe exactly what it says. Jesus is the Lord of Heaven, He came to earth, died, rose, returned to heaven. And one day, every knee will bow, every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is LORD.
Much love!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You should. The Bible records dozens of lords. None of them are God.
To be a lord means to be the master over a specific realm. Lord Voldemort is master in Harry Potter. Lords of the Sith are master's in Star Wars. Lorn Cornwallis was master in England gentry. Once you accept that there are REAL-lowercase lords, then you can accept and equate them to REAL-lowercase gods. But none are the Creator, who we relate to as Father.
Yes, you keep saying that, hoping it will falsely be equated with his Father. I've referenced 1 COR 15:23-28 several times. What is your take on these verses?
Never mind.
I'm not into Star Wars and Harry Potter, and I'm not discussing Science Fiction or Horror.
Why don't you quote it?
Here, let me do that for you.
1 Corinthians 15:23-28 KJV
23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25) For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
What's your issue here?
Much love!
I agree.
Translators seem to agree it is a title since they all capitalize it, but I guess it doesn’t matter much to me. What I find interesting is my original point. Translators capitalize Ex 3:14 but many do not capitalize John 8:58 even though they are likely trinitarians. In doing this they show the 2 verses are not linked. That is truthful. I respect that. Yet most trinitarians ignore this fact even when confronted with it. Typical of them.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
My translations capitalize the common expression in both places, forcing an artificial connection.
‘I am’ is not what God said even though most trinitarian translators go with that. Something is lost from the original Hebrew. It means Eternal.
God first expressed his unique nature to Moses, which differentiated him from other gods/idols in the region. Then, he told Moses his personal name in Ex 3:15.
I find trinitarians ignoring v15 to be a Case Study in Willful Ignorance.
Self-existent is how many define this. God is identifying Himself as the Self-Existing One. All life derives from God, God alone has life in Himself.
Much love!
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