Rapture is not in the Bible

[n2thelight]

Concerning the 144,000, God places a seal upon them and they are miraculously protected by Him during the Tribulation period. (Rev. 7:3-8)

God places a seal upon those that know the truth and can't be deceived by satan pretending to be Christ.

A non believer will not have the seal,period.Once you fall for the lie,you turn into a whore.

 

[Stranger]

God places a seal upon those that know the truth and can't be deceived by satan pretending to be Christ.

A non believer will not have the seal,period.Once you fall for the lie,you turn into a whore.

That the 144,00 is Israel is clear. Twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel. (Rev. 7:4-8).

That not all had this seal is clear also as there are many martyrs during the Tribulation. (Rev. 7:9-17)

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

That the 144,00 is Israel is clear. Twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel. (Rev. 7:4-8).

That not all had this seal is clear also as there are many martyrs during the Tribulation. (Rev. 7:9-17)

Stranger

They are all saved not getting saved(trib saints) and sealed because they are of Israel.

So why did'nt they get raptured?

 

[n2thelight]

Only a christian can turn into a whore,as the rest of the world already are...Christians will fall for satan thinking He's Christ ,turning them from being a virgin

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

For a young woman to be "espoused" to her husband means that she is completely committed to him, even before the vows have been exchanged. Paul is using this relationship whereby we could understand the emotions of Christ towards His bride. The feeling and commitment goes both ways, and applies to the man as much as it applies to the woman. It is no great secret what causes virginity to be lost, for it is being unfaithful sexually to the one you are espoused to marry.

If a woman has been unfaithful, and is with child, how could she expect that she could be accepted by the man she was espoused to, when she is carrying another man's child? Paul is afraid that if Christians start listening to these fairy-tale preachers, they will be taken by the wrong christ, or Satan the Antichrist [the instead of Christ]. Then when Jesus Christ returns at the seventh trumpet, they will be found unworthy to be part of "the bride of Christ". Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 24:19; "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" He was not referring to a mother with a child in her womb, but spiritually speaking, Christians that have given themselves over to the wrong husband. In ignorance they will have been deceived into climbing into the spiritual bed of Satan, and their hearts have been given over to the Satan.

If you are one of the whores of Satan, than you cannot be one of the virgins of Christ waiting with your lamps full of oil [which is the truth from God's Word] that is waiting for the coming of the bridegroom, which is Jesus Christ. Paul now is putting it into a language that most anyone can understand. Paul is saying; "I'm afraid that one of these false teachers is going to seduce you."

 

[Stranger]

They are all saved not getting saved(trib saints) and sealed because they are of Israel.

So why did'nt they get raptured?

Because they were not believers at the time of the rapture.

Stranger

 

[buddyt]

Such a statement as this does nothing to take away from the 'rapture'. To identify the rapture of the Church with this passage simply because the word 'fly' is used shows the extent those will go to reject the 'rapture'.

Stranger

Like I said do you believe God's word or do you believe Man ? So what do you believe God to mean by this ? I believe God and what he say's will come to pass.

 

[michaelvpardo]

ah. about tomorrow though, right

if it serves you, who am i lol
what is the fruit btw

I dream things before they happen at times, but typically just events in my own life, and typically quite a while before they happen (so I rarely if ever remember the entire content of those dreams). Since I don't believe in a lot of esoteric nonsense, I need to understand my experience in the light of God's word, and I believe my interpretation (of my own experience) is reasonably accurate. I can't be unconcerned about tomorrow, because I've often seen tomorrow. The good thing about it is that to the extent that I can remember a dream, I can change my response to the situation for a more favorable outcome, or at least restrain my self from doing things that I would later regret.

 

[michaelvpardo]

a different argument is developed at the link, the dialectic/logical thing. Maybe the best light on it yet

"That would depend upon who the angels were speaking to, and if they meant individuals or peoples."

they were talking to people standing there, and you are reading an account of that transaction, supposedly, right? So if it is taken literally, waiiting for Christ to return--especially after Pentecost--cannot be made to make even logical sense.

Yet this is what millions say they believe.

and dissecting the passage a bit (see link) reveals some interesting details.

but understand, however you interpret this passage, that committing to a pov (such as "this passage assures me that i or some special snowflake in some tomorrow will literally see Jesus come down, the way some other guy is said to have seen Him go up") is going to back you into one corner or another, and

the angel either lied to those present, because Jesus has not returned yet, or Jesus has returned, and this passage is not being interpreted right.

i am in perfect agreement that you will see Jesus come down the same way you saw Him go up, ok. But see how ppl wanna have cake and eat it too, and so natch they wanna add some spin to that

In the gospels, we rarely find Jesus addressing individuals in public speech, but rather groups of people, sometimes disciples, sometimes scribes and Pharisees, sometimes Saudacees, sometimes priests and the Sanhedrin. Jesus told the high priest (Matthew 26:64) at His trial, that "you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." If this has happened during that generation I think that we'd have heard about it, and the Earth would already be turned into sheol ( a Hebrew version of hades).
Since Jesus is the true and faithful witness, then we must understand His words as being addressed to the Jewish nation or leadership. You could interpret what He said in a different way, but you'd be wrong.

 

[michaelvpardo]

That the 144,00 is Israel is clear. Twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel. (Rev. 7:4-8).

That not all had this seal is clear also as there are many martyrs during the Tribulation. (Rev. 7:9-17)

Stranger

I may be misreading the passages, but aren't the 144000 also martyred during the tribulation period with the last of their number being beheaded in Jerusalem?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Only a christian can turn into a whore,as the rest of the world already are...Christians will fall for satan thinking He's Christ ,turning them from being a virgin

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

For a young woman to be "espoused" to her husband means that she is completely committed to him, even before the vows have been exchanged. Paul is using this relationship whereby we could understand the emotions of Christ towards His bride. The feeling and commitment goes both ways, and applies to the man as much as it applies to the woman. It is no great secret what causes virginity to be lost, for it is being unfaithful sexually to the one you are espoused to marry.

If a woman has been unfaithful, and is with child, how could she expect that she could be accepted by the man she was espoused to, when she is carrying another man's child? Paul is afraid that if Christians start listening to these fairy-tale preachers, they will be taken by the wrong christ, or Satan the Antichrist [the instead of Christ]. Then when Jesus Christ returns at the seventh trumpet, they will be found unworthy to be part of "the bride of Christ". Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 24:19; "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" He was not referring to a mother with a child in her womb, but spiritually speaking, Christians that have given themselves over to the wrong husband. In ignorance they will have been deceived into climbing into the spiritual bed of Satan, and their hearts have been given over to the Satan.

If you are one of the whores of Satan, than you cannot be one of the virgins of Christ waiting with your lamps full of oil [which is the truth from God's Word] that is waiting for the coming of the bridegroom, which is Jesus Christ. Paul now is putting it into a language that most anyone can understand. Paul is saying; "I'm afraid that one of these false teachers is going to seduce you."

I think that you're using the word Christian in a much broader sense than a born again believer would. There are riders (church attendees who benefit from their association with genuine believers) and walkers (those that have believed and received Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and walk in His way, following His Spirit.)
When things start getting tough for the church (persecutions, imprisonment, etc.) The riders just "fall off" so to speak.

 

[Stranger]

Like I said do you believe God's word or do you believe Man ? So what do you believe God to mean by this ? I believe God and what he say's will come to pass.

Ezekiel is prophesying against false prophetesses in Israel. (Ez.13:17) Just like he did against the false prophets of Israel. (Ez. 13:1-16) He describes the actions of the false prophetesses as hunting the souls of the people of God. (13:18). Then God says through Ezekiel, (13:20), "Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly...."

This alludes to the hunting of birds and the building of some sort of trap or net that would catch the birds having made them fly. God is saying He views these false prophetesses as the same in hunting His people. Hunters do the same today.

This does not speak to the rapture of the Church. The Church is unknown in the Old Testament. And so is the rapture.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I may be misreading the passages, but aren't the 144000 also martyred during the tribulation period with the last of their number being beheaded in Jerusalem?

No. I believe they are preserved all the way through the Tribulation. See (Rev. 12:14) and (14:1). These 144,000 will be the remnant of Israel to enter the Millennium and begin the Israel from which Christ will rule over the earth for 1000 years.

Stranger

 

[michaelvpardo]

No. I believe they are preserved all the way through the Tribulation. See (Rev. 12:14) and (14:1). These 144,000 will be the remnant of Israel to enter the Millennium and begin the Israel from which Christ will rule over the earth for 1000 years.

Stranger

Could be, but isn't Revelation 14:1 about the return of Christ with His saints in glory to rule and reign over the remnant of Israel and the nations? E.G.: Daniel is supposed to rise to His inheritance (he was a eunuch and hence a virgin.) How do you reckon that Daniel will return if not in that manner?

 

[Stranger]

Could be, but isn't Revelation 14:1 about the return of Christ with His saints in glory to rule and reign over the remnant of Israel and the nations? E.G.: Daniel is supposed to rise to His inheritance (he was a eunuch and hence a virgin.) How do you reckon that Daniel will return if not in that manner?

Not sure what you're asking. That Christ will return with the saints to rule, yes. But this passage in (14:1) is addressing Christ and the 144,00.

God never does just one thing when He moves. When He moves, many things are connected and being done.

Stranger

 

[GISMYS_7]

Rapture is not in the Bible... But caught up is!
And caught up is not to return!

We will be caught up with Christ in the air...
We will return with Christ after tribulation to reign with him 1,000 years.

If we are not raptured away pre-trib... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him 1,000 years???

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19

 

[GISMYS_7]

We will be caught up with Christ in the air...
We will return with Christ after tribulation to reign with him 1,000 years.

If we are not raptured away pre-trib... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him 1,000 years???

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thess 4:13-16

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be """caught up""" together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[n2thelight]

Because they were not believers at the time of the rapture.

Stranger

Only a believer can get sealed,so your point is mute...

 

[n2thelight]

We will be caught up with Christ in the air...
We will return with Christ after tribulation to reign with him 1,000 years.

If we are not raptured away pre-trib... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him 1,000 years???

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thess 4:13-16

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be """caught up""" together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If we are not raptured away pre-trib... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him 1,000 years???

Your answer is in your very post
Those who sleep have died,and are with Christ now,that's how He brings them back with Him,those who are here will be turned into those that come with .

The verse says those who have died will Christ bring back,not those who were raptured

 

[n2thelight]

I think that you're using the word Christian in a much broader sense than a born again believer would. There are riders (church attendees who benefit from their association with genuine believers) and walkers (those that have believed and received Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and walk in His way, following His Spirit.)
When things start getting tough for the church (persecutions, imprisonment, etc.) The riders just "fall off" so to speak.

I use Christian,meaning those who say they are saved.

 

[Stranger]

Only a believer can get sealed,so your point is mute...

Again, they were not believers at the time of the rapture.

Stranger