Rapture is not in the Bible

[rockytopva]

Rapture is not in the Bible... But caught up is!
And caught up is not to return!

We will be caught up with Christ in the air...
We will return with Christ after tribulation to reign with him 1,000 years.

If we are not raptured away pre-trib... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him 1,000 years???

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19

 

[bbyrd009]

If we are not raptured away pre-trib... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him 1,000 years???

k now i am confused; are you arguing for rapture or against it?

"Caught up in the air" is imo a great way to describe a shift in personal perspective; don't you think?

 

[rockytopva]

k now i am confused; are you arguing for rapture or against it?

"Caught up in the air" is imo a great way to describe a shift in personal perspective; don't you think?

I don't know if they should have ever called it a rapture to begin with.

 

[rockytopva]

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19

Looking forward to my white horse! Giddy-up! Hyaaaa! Stampede!

 

[keras]

Why do people believe in a rapture?
It is taken as read, that this means a rapture removal to heaven of all Christian people, either before the Seals, during the last 7 years, or at the Return.
Unfortunately for those who would like to be outta here before anything nasty happens, there is no scriptural support for such a belief. The same applies for the mid-trib theory. But at the Return of Jesus, there will be a great lifting up and gathering of all the ‘elect, or chosen’, as Matthew 24:31 puts it and as Paul details in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Those who adhere to the idea of a pre wrath rapture, often cite ‘we are not appointed to wrath’. Firstly, we are told many times, that we must face trials and tests in order to prove our faith. But the real truth of how the Lord will save His people from His wrath, is by His protection. I can post 25 + verses that prove this is what is promised, not removal. Just read Psalm 23 and Psalm 91, they give amazing assurance that the Lord will protect and keep safe all who hold fast to their faith in Him.

Then there is the real truth of what God plans for His people. The story goes back to Abraham, whom God chose to be the father of a people who would be His witnesses and become the light to the nations. The ancient Israelites failed in this task and God scattered them among the nations, but with the promise of their eventual gathering and redemption. We know for the N.T., that ‘not all of Israel are true descendants of Abraham’, it is therefore, true Christian believers ‘from every tribe, nation and language’, Revelation 7:9, that now comprise the Israel of God.

People who believe in a rapture to heaven have been fooled by false teaching, just as Jesus said: Matthew 24:11, would happen and Paul says in 2 Timothy 4:3-4, that people will listen to those bad teachers and be deceived by them.
Sadly, millions have been deluded into thinking that just belief in God is enough and they need do nothing else in order to be taken directly to heaven.

But when the fiery trial comes, as 1 Peter 4:12 tells us it will, those who expected to be gone, will be shocked and terrified as the worldwide disaster of that Day, Luke 21:35, 2 Peter 3:7, strikes down the ungodly, Hebrews 10:27, Romans 1:18, and all who fail to stand firm in their faith. Matthew 24:10
Many prophesies tell how the Lord will settle His people into all of the Holy Land, where they will at last be the people He always intended. These people will prepare the world for the Millennium Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31

Then, after all that is prophesied to happen in the last days has taken place, the Lord will Return and bring all His righteous people to Jerusalem, all those who refused the mark of the beast and those from their place of safety. Revelation 12:14 The martyred saints will be resurrected at this time, Revelation 20:4, but the rest of the dead await the Great White Throne judgement at the end of the Millennium.

 

[Stranger]

The rapture is to keras like chicken eggs to a chicken snake. If they are laid, he will come.

Stranger

 

[Questor]

1) The tares are burnt, and the grain is gathered into the barn on earth.
2) The Ark never went to heaven, but settled on a mountain top.
3) Lot and his daughters were taken to a nearby place, where they were protected by G-d...on the ground.

Questions?

 

[keras]

The rapture is to keras like chicken eggs to a chicken snake. If they are laid, he will come.
Stranger

Y'know, I would be quite happy to float off to heaven, but I just can't find a single verse in the Bible that says God will do that for His people.
My aim and object, is to present the truth to all who care to listen. I understand how difficult it is for those who have been fooled by false teachings to overcome their beliefs, but it will be far better for them to know what God actually does plan for His people.
At the least, you and many others have had the alternative presented to you and will know what to do when things happen and you remain on earth.
logostelos.info

 

[Stranger]

Y'know, I would be quite happy to float off to heaven, but I just can't find a single verse in the Bible that says God will do that for His people.
My aim and object, is to present the truth to all who care to listen. I understand how difficult it is for those who have been fooled by false teachings to overcome their beliefs, but it will be far better for them to know what God actually does plan for His people.
At the least, you and many others have had the alternative presented to you and will know what to do when things happen and you remain on earth.
logostelos.info

Nah you wouldn't. If you went up in the Rapture you would argue with Jesus Christ as how it is unscriputural and you can prove it.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

According to this text they will all be dead and going nowhere. I guess a bit like people getting "taken' by a shark

 

[rockytopva]

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

That day, which we call the rapture, will happen...

1. After a great falling away
2. At the revealing of the antichrist

All we need is for the antichrist to reveal himself and that day, which we call the rapture, will occur in which...

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matthew 24

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. - Luke 17

Putting the whole story together this event, which we call the rapture, will be pre-trib... Otherwise

1. It wont be as the days of Noah
2. It wont be as the days of Lot
3. Christ will not come as a thief - As tribulation would make this rather well announced.
4. It wont come at the revealing of the antichrist - As his reign would have already come and gone
5. No need for the dead in Christ to rise first - As we will be returning with Christ - To reign with him 1,000 years.

 

[Stranger]

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

That day, which we call the rapture, will happen...

1. After a great falling away
2. At the revealing of the antichrist

All we need is for the antichrist to reveal himself and that day, which we call the rapture, will occur in which...

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matthew 24

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. - Luke 17

Putting the whole story together this event, which we call the rapture, will be pre-trib... Otherwise

1. It wont be as the days of Noah
2. It wont be as the days of Lot
3. Christ will not come as a thief - As tribulation would make this rather well announced.
4. It wont come at the revealing of the antichrist - As his reign would have already come and gone
5. No need for the dead in Christ to rise first - As we will be returning with Christ - To reign with him 1,000 years.

I do believe in a pre-trib rapture. But, I think (2Thess. 2-3) is speaking more to the 'Day of the Lord". Which means the rapture would have already occurred.

I know (Luke 17) is commonly used by many to be the rapture, but I believe (Luke 17:22-37) speaks to the 2nd Coming of Christ. Which of course occurs after the Tribulation. With the 'two and one taken' examples, the one taken is not a rapture but a judgement of death. Which is why the flood of Noah, and Sodom and Gomorrah are used as examples.

Stranger

 

[keras]

I do believe in a pre-trib rapture. But, I think (2Thess. 2-3) is speaking more to the 'Day of the Lord". Which means the rapture would have already occurred.

The $64,000 question then is: when and where does the Bible say a rapture to heaven happen?

I know (Luke 17) is commonly used by many to be the rapture, but I believe (Luke 17:22-37) speaks to the 2nd Coming of Christ. Which of course occurs after the Tribulation. With the 'two and one taken' examples, the one taken is not a rapture but a judgement of death. Which is why the flood of Noah, and Sodom and Gomorrah are used as examples.

I see this prophecy of Jesus as describing His Day of wrath, when His enemies will be destroyed. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster; but most will survive, excepting in the Middle East. Only a remnant of the Jewish people will survive. Isaiah 29:1-8, Romans 9:27, Luke 19:27

 

[ScottA]

Rapture is not in the Bible... But caught up is!
And caught up is not to return!

We will be caught up with Christ in the air...
We will return with Christ after tribulation to reign with him 1,000 years.

If we are not raptured away pre-trib... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him 1,000 years???

Being that "the kingdom of God is within you", it should come as no surprise that when we are "caught up", we don't actually go anywhere.

So...since we don't actually go anywhere...the rapturous experience should be viewed more as the mind-blowing "change" that it is also said to be. We "go" from being an organic mammal critter, to have a new spiritual creation life form take over our body. What a rush!

As for "meeting Christ "in the air"...that is just an old world "worldly" way of saying "in the world/in spirit."

As for "returning with Christ", again, since we haven't [actually] gone anywhere...yes, we "return" "in the twinkling of an eye" to our old organic self, but now "with Christ" "living in us" in "One spirit." As for "reigning with Christ for a 1,000 years"...that is just an old world "worldly" way of saying "until the end."

"And then the end shall come."

 

[rockytopva]

Being that "the kingdom of God is within you", it should come as no surprise that when we are "caught up", we don't actually go anywhere.

So...since we don't actually go anywhere...the rapturous experience should be viewed more as the mind-blowing "change" that it is also said to be. We "go" from being an organic mammal critter, to have a new spiritual creation life form take over our body. What a rush!

As for "meeting Christ "in the air"...that is just an old world "worldly" way of saying "in the world/in spirit."

As for "returning with Christ", again, since we haven't [actually] gone anywhere...yes, we "return" "in the twinkling of an eye" to our old organic self, but now "with Christ" "living in us" in "One spirit." As for "reigning with Christ for a 1,000 years"...that is just an old world "worldly" way of saying "until the end."

"And then the end shall come."

I don't see the quick trip.

 

[rockytopva]

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19

Looking forward to my white horse! Giddy-up! Hyaaaa! Stampede!

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; - Revelation 7:9

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19:14

We will meet the Lord in the air and then stand before the throne, in white garments, ready to mount out white horses, to return with Christ to reign a thousand years! It is 12 chapters between Revelation 7 and 19. And I would think at least 3.5 years if not 7.0.

 

[ScottA]

I don't see the quick trip.

Keep looking.

“Surely I am coming quickly.”

 

[Stranger]

I don't see the quick trip.

I'm sure you understand that we who believe in the rapture and those who don't, interpret the Bible differently. Thus there will never be agreement, there will never be convincing anyone. It is like two people arguing who don't speak the same language.

One must first establish that there is a correct interpretation of the Scriptures and then try and find it. And, good luck with that.

Stranger

 

[rockytopva]

I'm sure you understand that we who believe in the rapture and those who don't, interpret the Bible differently. Thus there will never be agreement, there will never be convincing anyone. It is like two people arguing who don't speak the same language.

One must first establish that there is a correct interpretation of the Scriptures and then try and find it. And, good luck with that.

Stranger

Jesus Christ did not give concrete evidence as to the timing his return, therefore he reminds in scripture, over and over, that he comes as a thief, and for us to be ready for it.

 

[keras]

Jesus Christ did not give concrete evidence as to the timing his return, therefore he reminds in scripture, over and over, that he comes as a thief, and for us to be ready for it.

It isn't the Return that will come unexpectedly. That glorious event will be know to the day by anyone with Bible knowledge, as it will happen exactly 1260 days after the Ant-Christ leader of the OWG sits in the Temple. Also it happens when the worlds armies are assembled at Armageddon.

The Day Jesus 'comes as a thief', He won't be seen by everyone, as He destroys His enemies and resets the worlds civilization to a similar degree as in the days of Noah. It will be the Sixth Seal event, the Lord's day of vengeance and wrath. Psalms 11:4-6, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:8. +