They are the elect of God,they had to be
Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
Rapture is not in the Bible
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They are the elect of God,they had to be
Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
The worst thing that can happen during the trib other than the possibility of losing your soul is death,and what did Christ say about that?
Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
What do you all think the tribulation is all about?let me tell ya,better yet Christ
Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."
The tribulation is the time when many will fall away from the truth,why were they not raptured when they knew the truth?
Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
What do you all think the tribulation is all about?let me tell ya,better yet Christ
Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."
The tribulation is the time when many will fall away from the truth,why were they not raptured when they knew the truth?
Just because you are elect, doesn't place you in a saved condition. Because you are elect you will be brought to that saved condition. Till then you are lost. The 144,000, though elect, were not saved at the time of the rapture.
Stranger
The elect has to be saved,they were already judged before the foundation of the world
Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"
How can they not be when they are the remnant
Romans 11:4 "But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."
Though this is history, in that God had reserved for Himself seven thousand men that would never bow to the image of Baal, Elijah did not know those seven thousand people that had stayed faithful to Him. This quotation is recorded in I Kings 19:10-18.
Romans 11:5 "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."
Again, one can be elect but lost. Until the one who is elect places faith in Jesus Christ, he is lost.
Again the elect have already been chosen.Who are the elect that Christ said the days would be shortened for?
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
Unbelievable!
Your belief in the rapture forces you to make totally unbiblical statements! Don't you realize that those chosen, the elect are not just Jews and they cannot be lost. 1 Peter 2:9-10
Being chosen is just part. Again, just because one is elect does not mean he is saved. He experiences the new-birth only when faith is placed in Christ.
Be nice if you give the verse. The elect you are speaking of are those who are elect and have been saved.
Stranger
I didn't say anything about the elect being Jew or Gentile because it wasn't necessary. Until those who are elect, be they Jew or Gentile, come to Christ in faith, or exercise believing faith, they are lost and need to be saved.
And the rapture plays no role in effecting that statement. This is true prior to the rapture also.
Stranger
EricaAnn
New Member
Hi! What are you thoughts on the "twinkling of an eye" reference. Also, do you agree that the LORD has a "track record" of saving and delivering HIS people? Lot and his whole family on behalf of Abraham. Noah and his whole family on behalf of Noah. The obedient children of Israel during Passover. Joseph and Mary on behalf of JESUS during Herod hideous killing of infants and toddlers in an attempt to kill any coming king? It could be that the rapture may not happen, but based on looking at the whole picture -- I think it will. Just some thoughts.
Erica
I suppose that I asked more than one question, but the last was most significant to the discussion. How do you reckon that Daniel will rise to His inheritance as we find towards the end of that book? A separate resurrection from the church?
If Christ is coming in the clouds and in glory, wouldn't we have to rise up into the air to meet Him in order to return with Him. Since a consuming fire goes before Him, don't we have to be transformed into our glorified bodies so that we are not the fleshly targets of judgment?
Lots of people think they are saved, by being a church member, or being baptized, or praying a prayer, or receiving "sacraments," etc. , however the saints are those who have been born again of the Spirit of God, and this is actually the ultimate work of biblical faith and a work performed by God, not by us.
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Try the Latin Vulgate. Harpazo is translated into Latin as Rapturo, from which we get the transliterated word, Rapture. 1 Thessalonians 4 has Harpazo and is typically translated as "caught up". Harpazo literally is a forced "snatching away".
Coming as a thief could easily be seen as a pre-70th week of Daniel event, as when a thief comes by night, no one is expecting him. As opposed to the return of Messiah to conquer and rule, when the world is taking arms up against His coming. As expounded in Psalm 2 that compliments the Revelation. The only real arguments left for debate are pre, mid, pre-wrath, etc. Post trib, Post-Millenial, and Amillenial deny too much to be viable candidates.
ScottA
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Here, the time is given... No less than four times:
1 Corinthians 15:51-58 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Don't make me do your work for you. Give your question some substance by giving Scripture and how you come to your question.
Stranger
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
ScottA uses the 1 Cor 15:50-56 too, as a 'rapture' proof.
But that is wrong, because all of that passage is about the Great White Throne Judgement. Proved by how Death is no more then. Revelation 20:11-15 and Rev 21:1-7 It is then that those whose names are in the Book of Life will receive new bodies; in an instant.
Before then, now and during the Millennium, there is still death. Isaiah 65:20
There is never a removal to heaven of living people. Only the souls of the martyrs that are kept under the Altar in heaven. Out task and our destiny, is the be the people God always wanted in His holy Land; being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8
ScottA
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Well, so did you knowingly or unknowingly miss the "we shall all be changed"..."raised" in a rapturous "moment" part?
1 Corinthians 15:51-58 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
...The problem here, is that you are making multiple events out of multiple witness accounts of a multitude of truth that occurs "in the twinkling of an eye", not knowing or appreciating that it all has only been broken down and witnessed throughout many generations, simply for our understanding. The MRI is One. But taking the time to explain and to show the details of the timeless nature of God and his story through the coarse of history, was never to be understood as actually being considered in days, and weeks and months. That is not God - his kingdom is not of this world.
Are you serious? You couldn't possibly do my work for me. My work was prepared for me to do, no one else. If you know the Lord, then the same is true for you.
Is there some reason that folks here attack you when they have no legitimate answer to a question which contradicts their fantasies?
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