Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

[Ernest T. Bass]

Process of salvation:

2 Corinthians 2:15 "For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,"
Revelation 2:10 One cannot be faithful for a moment then quit but be faithful unto death
John 10:27 one cannot hear and follow Christ for a moment but for life, unto death
Philippians 2:12 one does not work out salvation for a moment but for life, unto death
Colossians 1:23; Acts 13:43; Acts 14:22; John 8:31 one must continue in the faith, continue in the grace of God, continue in the word
2 Peter 1:10; 2 Peter 3:17 one must continue to make his calling and election sure, continue in steadfastness
Matthew 10:22; 2 Timothy 4:3; James 1:12 the Christian must have a life long endurance
Luke 13:24 striving is a life long process, unto death. Cannot enter narrow door if one quits.
1 John 1:7 one cannot walk in the light for a moment then quit, it's a life long process.

Being a Christian is a life long process. One cannot live like a Christian on Sunday and like the devil the rest of the week. One cannot become a Christian for a day then live like the devil the rest of his/her life.

I have had those that believe in OSAS tell me if a person who was a Christian but later turns to live in sin, his turning to living in sin proves he was never really saved, never really was a Christian citing 1 John 2:19. But this actually proves the necessity of being a Christian is a life-long process.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. Salvation IS NOT a lifelong PROCESS.
Salvation IS an ACT OF the Lord that SAVES a man UNTO the Lord.

No. Sanctification IS NOT Ongoing pertaining to ONE INDIVIDUAL man.
Sanctification IS an ACT OF the Lord that CLEANSES a mans natural body UNTO the Lord.

Gods KINDNESS does not SAVE a man.
KNOWLEDGE does not SAVE a man.
KNOWLEDGE does not SAVE a man.

BEING an EXAMPLE, Speaking the Word of God, and then STOPPING does not SAVE a man.
Being a teacher, while being a poor example does not SAVE a man.
Being Warned of the consequences of NOT being IN Christ does not SAVE a man.
Being Informed that remaining in following the Lord is paramount, is not being Saved.
Being informed a man IN Christ shall remain forever IN His BOOK of Life is not being Saved.
Being informed Saved men can Receive ADDITIONAL gifts IN Christ IN His Holy City, is not being Saved.

Being SAVED, BORN AGAIN, SANCTIFIED, CLEANSED, JUSTIFIED, FOREVER..............
IS ACCOMPLISHED, WHEN a man BELIEVES IN HIS HEART, IN thee Lord God Almighty, AND, such man ELECTS/CHOOSES "TO" "GIVE" His LIFE TO THE Lord.

IF and WHEN a man .....
1) GOES TO THE DOOR....who IS Jesus
2) ENTERS the DOOR.......who IS Christ
3) THEN and ONLY then is the man savED

Knowledge, believing, learning, trying, teaching, following, blah, blah......
"ONLY" are measures that "LEAD" a man "TO" the DOOR.
THEY ARE NOT WHAT SAVES THE MAN, as you repeatedly attempt to teach.
Men can WANDER, guess, wonder, believe, not believe, try, blah, blah.....and FAIL.
However IF AND WHEN a man ENTERS THROUGH CHRIST JESUS.......IT IS ONCE and FOREVER the man IS KEPT 'IN" Christ.....
BY;
THE POWER OF CHRIST, that The Man elected to enter THROUGH and the Lord Keeps that man FOREVER.
You teach EVERYTHING that LEADS to the Door.....IS a man receiving Salvation...
That is false.
You teach A man WHO HAS ENTERED through the Door.....Can Then reject Christ....
That is false.
Rejection of Christ Jesus ABSOLUTELY and DOES happen......BEFORE a man ENTERS through the Door.
Once the man HAS ENTERED....
NO ONE....can PULL that man BACK out the door.

Correct. NOBODY can pull a man away from God. YOU, however, can abandon God on your OWN.
This is the lesson of the Prodigal Son. God's forgiveness is always waiting - but it is up to YOU whether or not you choose to return.

As for "Knowledge" not saving a man - you are being dishonest again.
I have shown you repeatedly that the "knowledge" being spoken of in these passages is NOT a simple "knowing". The Greek word used here is EPIGNOSIS, which means a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge.

ONLY a born-again person has Epignosis of Christ. You cannot have Epignosis of Him without being born again.

Finally - you keep blathering on from thread to thread about OSAS - but you haven't provided even ONE verse to support it.
Gee - I WONDER why that is??

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, John 5 is describing Jesus Christ himself as the gate and the door to eternal life, and we know by the passages below that we receive eternal life through BELIEF.

How can believers never hear his voice nor see his form?

Jhn 5:36-40 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
Jhn 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Jhn 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Jhn 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Jhn 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Jhn 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1Ti 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

1 Jhn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

God bless

Wrong.
These verses aren't speaking of a simple "belief".

YOUR problem again is that you cherry-pick verses instead of reading them in CONTEXT with the rest of Scripture. As I have shown you before - James 2:19 warns us that belief is NOT enough because even the DEMONS believe.

Notice the John 5:36-40 says that they did NOT believe REFUSED to come to Him to have eternal life.
"Belief" in this context requires obedience - not just intellectual assent.

Don't just QUOTE Scripture.
LEARN what it means . . .

 

[Triumph1300]

The devil believes more about what's in the Bible than some Christians.
And he knows it in context.

 

[Taken]

I have had those that believe in OSAS tell me if a person who was a Christian but later turns to live in sin, his turning to living in sin proves he was never really saved, never really was a Christian citing 1 John 2:19. But this actually proves the necessity of being a Christian is a life-long process.

Salvation IS a gift From God.

IOW - There are TWO PARTIES.

The Giver ~
...Christ the Lord
The Receiver ~
...Any man who calls on the Lord with HEARTfelt Belief

Nothing whatsoever in Scripture says or indicates; the Lord is SLACK, in gifting a man, with EVERLASTING Salvation, who Calls on Him IN Heartfelt Belief.

That is precisely HOW a man NOTIFIES the Lord, that the man IS Prepared and Electing to RECEIVE Salvation, that the Lord has prepared FOR men TO RECEIVE.

But don't kid yourself. Men LIE. And some MEN LIE to the Lord and Claim they believe, when they DO NOT.

The Lord IS ALL KNOWING. He knows a mans Heart, AND He is not fooled, when a man FALSELY confesses belief.......and no that man Does not become gifted with Salvation.

No one said BEING a saved and born again Christian is not a life long process. Of course it is: the Man has become prepared to Glorifiy the Lords Name before other men.

The point was about Salvation being a PROCESS. IT IS Not. It is a gift.

A man goes through a process of Learning about the Lord BEFORE calling on the Lord to RECEIVE Salvation.

Thereafter the man IS PREPARED TO Serve the Lord. THe man continues Learning Gods precepts, of HOW TO SERVE the Lord according TO Gods "WAY".

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Correct. NOBODY can pull a man away from God. YOU, however, can abandon God on your OWN.

AFTER BEING SAVED AND BORN AGAIN ....
AND KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD....

YOUR POWER TRUMPS GODS POWER?

Fascinating teaching, ERRONOUS, but yet fascinating that is what you were taught.....

This is the lesson of the Prodigal Son. God's forgiveness is always waiting - but it is up to YOU whether or not you choose to return.

The Prodigal son lesson DOES NOT APPLY to a SAVED and BORN AGAIN MAN.
(The Older Brother who REMAINED with his father, is the appropriate application for a SAVED and BORN AGAIN man.)

The Prodigal son lesson APPLIES to a man WHO was following Christ and Stopped....and then STARTS AGAIN following Christ.

As for "Knowledge" not saving a man - you are being dishonest again.

Your CLAIM per usual is false.
KNOWLEDGE is NOT HOW a man become Saved.

What don't you get?
Salvation is not FORCED on a man....He has to ASK for the gift!!! He ASKS BY calling on the Lord and CONFESSING TO HIM!!!

I have shown you repeatedly that the "knowledge" being spoken of in these passages is NOT a simple "knowing". The Greek word used here is EPIGNOSIS, which means a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge.

I don't care HOW MUCH KNOWLEDGE A MAN HAS....IF HE DOESN"T CONFESS TO THE Lord.....the man simply has ALOT OF KNOWLEDGE and is doing NOTHING WITH IT!

ONLY a born-again person has Epignosis of Christ.

Nonsense.

You cannot have Epignosis of Him without being born again.

Nonsense.

The Scriptures are full of Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE. Anyone can pick up a Bible and have precise and correct knowledge.

IT IS THE UNDERSTANDING of the KNOWLEDGE that is reserved FOR men IN CHRIST.

Finally - you keep blathering on from thread to thread about OSAS - but you haven't provided even ONE verse to support it.

Gee - I WONDER why that is??

Probably because you spend so much time saying people are Wrong, Ranting and Blathering.......that quoting, revealing and Explaining to you is beyond your ability to understand......
You don't bother to verify.....when it is so much more fun for you to simply repeat over and over and over THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE WHAT IS WRITTEN and SHOWN you.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Salvation IS a gift From God.

IOW - There are TWO PARTIES.

The Giver ~
...Christ the Lord
The Receiver ~
...Any man who calls on the Lord with HEARTfelt Belief

Nothing whatsoever in Scripture says or indicates; the Lord is SLACK, in gifting a man, with EVERLASTING Salvation, who Calls on Him IN Heartfelt Belief.

That is precisely HOW a man NOTIFIES the Lord, that the man IS Prepared and Electing to RECEIVE Salvation, that the Lord has prepared FOR men TO RECEIVE.

But don't kid yourself. Men LIE. And some MEN LIE to the Lord and Claim they believe, when they DO NOT.

The Lord IS ALL KNOWING. He knows a mans Heart, AND He is not fooled, when a man FALSELY confesses belief.......and no that man Does not become gifted with Salvation.

No one said BEING a saved and born again Christian is not a life long process. Of course it is: the Man has become prepared to Glorifiy the Lords Name before other men.

The point was about Salvation being a PROCESS. IT IS Not. It is a gift.

A man goes through a process of Learning about the Lord BEFORE calling on the Lord to RECEIVE Salvation.

Thereafter the man IS PREPARED TO Serve the Lord. THe man continues Learning Gods precepts, of HOW TO SERVE the Lord according TO Gods "WAY".

God Bless,
Taken

Salvation is a CONDITIONAL gift from God.

The receiver will receive the gift from the Giver as long as the receiver meets the conditions placed upon the gift:

2 Corinthians 2:15 "For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,"
Revelation 2:10 One cannot be faithful for a moment then quit but be faithful unto death
John 10:27 one cannot hear and follow Christ for a moment but for life, unto death
Philippians 2:12 one does not work out salvation for a moment but for life, unto death
Colossians 1:23; Acts 13:43; Acts 14:22; John 8:31 one must continue in the faith, continue in the grace of God, continue in the word
2 Peter 1:10; 2 Peter 3:17 one must continue to make his calling and election sure, continue in steadfastness
Matthew 10:22; 2 Timothy 4:3; James 1:12 the Christian must have a life long endurance
Luke 13:24 striving is a life long process, unto death. Cannot enter narrow door if one quits.
1 John 1:7 one cannot walk in the light for a moment then quit, it's a life long process.

The Christian cannot quit being faithful, quit hearing and following Christ, quit working out his salvation, quit continuing in the faith quit continuing in the grace and word of God, quit enduring, quit walking in the light yet still be saved anyway.

So faithfully remaining a Christian for life/unto death is necessary to being saved.

Salvation/becoming a Christian is a process. Back in my earlier post, I posted about how the Bible shows Abraham being reckoned righteous/justified was a process Genesis 12:1-4 > Genesis 22:12. Nowhere in the Bible does it say Abraham was reckoned righteous/justified at one instance in time when he had 'faith only'. Abraham did not have faith only but had an obedient faith in doing what God told him at this is why he was justified by God.

 

[APAK]

Salvation is a gift offered by God to those he wills to offer it to. And if given to a man or woman and then accepted through belief to saving faith it is given without any strings attached. We do not do anything else or doubt its existence. It is assured for life. God now resides in our hearts for good. It would be an insult to God if we started to work for salvation.

What we do from that point on though is to mature our minds and thoughts in spirit and conform our will to God’s will and become more and more like Christ’s spirit. We work with God as a team, in spirit and purpose, as the son of God did and does today. We walk in the spirit of God and become as Christ.

The use of the word ‘convert’ or ‘converted’ is scriptural, and used in this OP, to convey the on-going spiritual walk to full maturity. It is a life-long process.

It demonstrates genuine meaning and sincerity of our faith that acquired this salvation. It is also called ‘working (it) out’ in the NT. We are being converted and in sanctification more and more to the likeness of Christ’s spirit for the rest of our lives. We do not work to gain salvation because that was gifted by God already.


Bless you,


APAK

 

[Heb 13:8]

Wrong.
These verses aren't speaking of a simple "belief".

YOUR problem again is that you cherry-pick verses instead of reading them in CONTEXT with the rest of Scripture. As I have shown you before - James 2:19 warns us that belief is NOT enough because even the DEMONS believe.

Notice the John 5:36-40 says that they did NOT believe REFUSED to come to Him to have eternal life.
"Belief" in this context requires obedience - not just intellectual assent.

Don't just QUOTE Scripture.
LEARN what it means . . .

BOL, did you not agree just a few days ago that James 2 is not referring to losing salvation?

BOL, those who do not believe are nonbelievers, they have never come to faith in Jesus Christ. The definition of belief is not obedience, it is faith in HIM and what He did on the cross.

Not once in John 5 is the word "obedience" mentioned, and you wonder why "obedience" is only mentioned 12 times in the KJV. God bless.

 

[APAK]

Process of salvation:

2 Corinthians 2:15 "For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,"
Revelation 2:10 One cannot be faithful for a moment then quit but be faithful unto death
John 10:27 one cannot hear and follow Christ for a moment but for life, unto death
Philippians 2:12 one does not work out salvation for a moment but for life, unto death
Colossians 1:23; Acts 13:43; Acts 14:22; John 8:31 one must continue in the faith, continue in the grace of God, continue in the word
2 Peter 1:10; 2 Peter 3:17 one must continue to make his calling and election sure, continue in steadfastness
Matthew 10:22; 2 Timothy 4:3; James 1:12 the Christian must have a life long endurance
Luke 13:24 striving is a life long process, unto death. Cannot enter narrow door if one quits.
1 John 1:7 one cannot walk in the light for a moment then quit, it's a life long process.

Being a Christian is a life long process. One cannot live like a Christian on Sunday and like the devil the rest of the week. One cannot become a Christian for a day then live like the devil the rest of his/her life.

I have had those that believe in OSAS tell me if a person who was a Christian but later turns to live in sin, his turning to living in sin proves he was never really saved, never really was a Christian citing 1 John 2:19. But this actually proves the necessity of being a Christian is a life-long process.

ErnestTB: how about doing some scripture study with me? We can review each of your 9 verses you posted each as one post.

I already started with your first verse, 2 Corinth 2:15...

(2Co 2:15) For wee are vnto God the sweete sauour of Christ, in them that are saued, and in them which perish.(Geneva)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a sweet savor of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish; (ASV)
(2Co 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish(KJV)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a sweet aroma of Christ to God, in those who are saved, and in those who perish; (WEB)
(2Co 2:15) For we are to God a sweet savor of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: (Webster)
(2Co 2:15) To God we are the aroma of Christ among those who are saved and among those who are dying.(GW)
(2Co 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in those that are saved and in those that perish; (Jub)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a sweet odour of Christ to God, in the saved and in those that perish(Darby)
(2Co 2:15) For we are the good odour of Christ unto God, in them that are saved and in them that perish.(Catholic – DRB)
(2Co 2:15) For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,(ESV)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a sweet perfume of Christ to God in those who are getting salvation and in those who are going to destruction;(BBE)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a fragrance of Christ grateful to God in those whom He is saving and in those who are perishing; (Weymouth)
(2Co 2:15) For we are to God a sweet savor of Christ, in those being saved, and in those being lost; (MKJV)

Notice there are variations in the translation of this verse. I believe you are emphasizing the ‘being saved’ expression in your translation to say that salvation is somehow conditional. You would be wrong in this attempt! It means nothing of the kind.

First you need to know there are three progressive phases of salvation in our lives:

1. The past salvation – justification event state.

2. The post initial justification state of salvation called the sanctification state, and then 3., the glorification future state of salvation.

Need to keep this in mind as we look at scripture involving salvation or ‘saved.’

There are only two possible meanings of the expression ‘being saved’ in your translation of 2 Corinthians 2:15:

1. It really means ‘being saved’ or (already) ‘saved’ as in MOST translations including the famous KJV and the Catholic DR Bible. Both of these expressions mean a ‘saved’ person is already justified and righteous, in the sanctification state of salvation (Converted state to perfection). They will be completed or perfectly saved in the future in the glorification state.

2. It means those that are going to be saved in accepting the gift of salvation in the future and are presently not saved.

Now looking at the context of these writings surrounding this verse, it clearly means choice 1. There’s no difference is writing ‘being saved’ or ‘saved’ and I surmise and not surprised that is why there are two differences in translations that do not alter the acquisition of salvation to it glorification and final state. The 'saved' or 'being saved' are in the sanctification conversion state toward perfection. Remember, these saved already accepted the gift of salvation that God gave to them. They did not earn it or regain it over and over again as some folks wrongly believe.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Taken]

Salvation is a CONDITIONAL gift from God.

I have already covered this in previous posts.
YES Salvation IS CONDITIONAL.

The CONDITION IS: an Individual MUST RECEIVE Salvation TO possess HAVING Salvation.

The receiver will receive the gift from the Giver as long as the receiver meets the conditions placed upon the gift:

Already previously covered this; an Individual MUST believe in His HEART, In Christ the Lord Jesus, AND Call on the Lords Name....AND he SHALL BE SAVED.

2 Corinthians 2:15 "For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,"
Revelation 2:10 One cannot be faithful for a moment then quit but be faithful unto death
John 10:27 one cannot hear and follow Christ for a moment but for life, unto death
Philippians 2:12 one does not work out salvation for a moment but for life, unto death
Colossians 1:23; Acts 13:43; Acts 14:22; John 8:31 one must continue in the faith, continue in the grace of God, continue in the word
2 Peter 1:10; 2 Peter 3:17 one must continue to make his calling and election sure, continue in steadfastness
Matthew 10:22; 2 Timothy 4:3; James 1:12 the Christian must have a life long endurance
Luke 13:24 striving is a life long process, unto death. Cannot enter narrow door if one quits.
1 John 1:7 one cannot walk in the light for a moment then quit, it's a life long process.

True.

The Christian cannot quit being faithful, quit hearing and following Christ, quit working out his salvation, quit continuing in the faith quit continuing in the grace and word of God, quit enduring, quit walking in the light yet still be saved anyway.

Any man, called by "CHRISTIAN" or otherwise, WHO, HAS believed in his Heart, AND called on the Lord........"IS" Saved "THEN".

Such a man DOES NOT KEEP faithfulness TO the Lord, BY HIS OWN POWER, but rather THE Lords INDWELLING Spirit, KEEPS the man FAITHFUL "TO" Him FOREVER.

So faithfully remaining a Christian for life/unto death is necessary to being saved.

So faithfully remaining....IS BY THE "INDWELLING" POWER OF God; WHOM the man SUBMITTED TO; TO KEEP the man FOREVER.

Thee Jews, WHO continue UNDER THE LAW, continue being FAITHFUL TO GOD, (not the Lord), ACCORDING TO the Law. They act under their OWN POWER to KEEP Obedience TO THE Law, until their END, that they HOPE to Receive SALVATION.

Salvation/becoming a Christian is a process.

BECOMING a Christian....irrelevant.
BECOMING SAVED....is the Point.

And already covered this.
Becoming SAVED, IS a man Giving the Lord A "VOW"..... A "Contract" if you will.

Already covered this. No one expects a man to AGREE to a contract; WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE of what is IN the contract.

The Lord does not expect a man to make A TRUE VOW TO HIM....without Knowing anything ABOUT the Lord....without Knowing What the VOW entails.

The Scriptures ARE FULL of KNOWLEDGE of what it means for a man TO AGREE to make a VOW TO THE Lord.

The Knowledge IS NOT a man AGREEING.
The Knowledge IS PREPARING A MAN, so the man CAN MAKE an INFORMED decision TO CHOOSE to make a VOW TO THE Lord.....
Or NOT.

Back in my earlier post, I posted about how the Bible shows Abraham being reckoned righteous/justified was a process Genesis 12:1-4 > Genesis 22:12. Nowhere in the Bible does it say Abraham was reckoned righteous/justified at one instance in time when he had 'faith only'. Abraham did not have faith only but had an obedient faith in doing what God told him at this is why he was justified by God.

OT men were ACCOUNTED "FAITHFUL" "BY" their Belief IN God, and His Word.....and SHOWED their "OBEDIENCE" BY following the TO the Law, and doing the Word of God.

NT men were ACCOUNTED "FAITHFUL" "BY"
1) Obedience TO the Law (for a Jew)
2) Obedience TO Christ (for Gentile & Jew)

Same is TODAY.

This OBEDIENCE, hinges ON an individuals "BELIEF". NOT his wishy washy CARNAL MINDS BELIEF.....but rather WHAT his HEART truly BELIEVES, and "IF" the man IS WILLING to solicite the Lord/call on His Name and CONFESS his heartfelt belief........

"IF" a man does.......he is SAVED THEN and FOREVER.

"Obedience" thereafter; is according TO....
The Law? No.

"According TO"..... Gods PRECEPTS.

The Scriptures ARE FULL of Gods PRECEPTS...
Precepts means a general rule INTENDED to regulate a mans "thoughts" and "behavior".

The Scriptures really us; What thoughts and behaviors GOS favors and that which PLEASES Him.

The Scriptures also notify us; What happens TO the man whose thoughts and behaviors PLEASE GOD....and What happens TO the man whose thoughts and behaviors DO NOT Please God.

AND....that such things DO NOT AFFECT a MANS SALVATION......"WHO HAS RECEIVED his SALVATION."

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Again, this has nothing to do with losing or regaining eternal life/ salvation or not.

the inferred def of "eternal" here needs help imo; seems like you are implying "forever" with it?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

ErnestTB: how about doing some scripture study with me? We can review each of your 9 verses you posted each as one post.

I already started with your first verse, 2 Corinth 2:15...

(2Co 2:15) For wee are vnto God the sweete sauour of Christ, in them that are saued, and in them which perish.(Geneva)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a sweet savor of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish; (ASV)
(2Co 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish(KJV)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a sweet aroma of Christ to God, in those who are saved, and in those who perish; (WEB)
(2Co 2:15) For we are to God a sweet savor of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: (Webster)
(2Co 2:15) To God we are the aroma of Christ among those who are saved and among those who are dying.(GW)
(2Co 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in those that are saved and in those that perish; (Jub)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a sweet odour of Christ to God, in the saved and in those that perish(Darby)
(2Co 2:15) For we are the good odour of Christ unto God, in them that are saved and in them that perish.(Catholic – DRB)
(2Co 2:15) For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,(ESV)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a sweet perfume of Christ to God in those who are getting salvation and in those who are going to destruction;(BBE)
(2Co 2:15) For we are a fragrance of Christ grateful to God in those whom He is saving and in those who are perishing; (Weymouth)
(2Co 2:15) For we are to God a sweet savor of Christ, in those being saved, and in those being lost; (MKJV)

Notice there are variations in the translation of this verse. I believe you are emphasizing the ‘being saved’ expression in your translation to say that salvation is somehow conditional. You would be wrong in this attempt! It means nothing of the kind.

Hi.

"Being saved" is a present tense participle and depicts salvation as being a process as opposed to something that happens UNconditonally at one quick instance in time when one has "faith only" and is UNconditionally guaranteed salvation no matter how he lives.

Salvation is conditional but is also a life long process..faithful unto death.

First you need to know there are three progressive phases of salvation in our lives:

1. The past salvation – justification event state.

2. The post initial justification state of salvation called the sanctification state, and then 3., the glorification future state of salvation.

Need to keep this in mind as we look at scripture involving salvation or ‘saved.’

Justification in the life of Abraham was a process (Gen 12:1-4 > Gen 22:1-12). Not something that happened one quick instance in time due to Abraham having faith only.

There are only two possible meanings of the expression ‘being saved’ in your translation of 2 Corinthians 2:15:

1. It really means ‘being saved’ or (already) ‘saved’ as in MOST translations including the famous KJV and the Catholic DR Bible. Both of these expressions mean a ‘saved’ person is already justified and righteous, in the sanctification state of salvation (Converted state to perfection). They will be completed or perfectly saved in the future in the glorification state.

There is nothing grammatically wrong with "being saved". Again it is a present tense participle showing a current ongoing action.

2. It means those that are going to be saved in accepting the gift of salvation in the future and are presently not saved.

"For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are currently, ongoingly being saved".
The present tense has to do with right now and not a future tense dealing with what takes place in the future.

Now looking at the context of these writings surrounding this verse, it clearly means choice 1. There’s no difference is writing ‘being saved’ or ‘saved’ and I surmise and not surprised that is why there are two differences in translations that do not alter the acquisition of salvation to it glorification and final state. The 'saved' or 'being saved' are in the sanctification conversion state toward perfection. Remember, these saved already accepted the gift of salvation that God gave to them. They did not earn it or regain it over and over again as some folks wrongly believe.

Bless you,

APAK

Again, the present tense denotes a current, ongoing action, a current ongoing process.

Question: If a man become a Christians and is faithful in worship attendance, faithful in his Bible study, he teaches Bible classes and even leads many others to have faith in Christ and does this for many years, but then one day runs off with his new neighbors wife and living and dying in adultery. If being a Christian and salvation are NOT a process, then will you argue that this man will be saved in his sinful adulterous state anyway?[/QUOTE]

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I have already covered this in previous posts.
YES Salvation IS CONDITIONAL.

But OSAS says salvation is UNconditional therefore cannot be lost under ANY circumstance.

The CONDITION IS: an Individual MUST RECEIVE Salvation TO possess HAVING Salvation.



Already previously covered this; an Individual MUST believe in His HEART, In Christ the Lord Jesus, AND Call on the Lords Name....AND he SHALL BE SAVED.



True.

From what you posted above I get salvation is received and one must CONDITIONALLY believe in his heart.

Then it only makes logically sense one must conditionally continue to believe in his heart to continue having the promise of the gift of salvation. For if one quits believing he no longer meets to condition to receiving salvation therefore forfeits it.

Will you argue one can quit believing becoming an unbeliever yet still UNconditionally receive salvation?

Any man, called by "CHRISTIAN" or otherwise, WHO, HAS believed in his Heart, AND called on the Lord........"IS" Saved "THEN".

Such a man DOES NOT KEEP faithfulness TO the Lord, BY HIS OWN POWER, but rather THE Lords INDWELLING Spirit, KEEPS the man FAITHFUL "TO" Him FOREVER.



So faithfully remaining....IS BY THE "INDWELLING" POWER OF God; WHOM the man SUBMITTED TO; TO KEEP the man FOREVER.

Thee Jews, WHO continue UNDER THE LAW, continue being FAITHFUL TO GOD, (not the Lord), ACCORDING TO the Law. They act under their OWN POWER to KEEP Obedience TO THE Law, until their END, that they HOPE to Receive SALVATION.

1) the NT is full of examples, warnings, giving heed to Christians about becoming unfaithful and falling away becoming lost

2) so there is not one verse in the NT that unconditionally guarantees the Christian can never become unfaithful and this is why Christians have been command to be faithful.

3) there is no verse in the NT that puts the accountability and responsibility upon the Holy Spirit to see to it that the Christian will never become unfaithful and fall into a lost state. Rev 22:10 "be thou faithful unto death" is a command given to the Christian making the Christian the one accountable and responsible for remaining faithful unto death. Such commands being given to Christians in being "faithful unto death" and "keep yourselves in the love of God" (Jude 1:21) make no sense and are useless if it is impossible for the Christian to fall and be lost, if salvation is not a process, if the Holy Spirit has the task to seeing to it that Christians do not become unfaithful.

BECOMING a Christian....irrelevant.
BECOMING SAVED....is the Point.

Becoming a Christian is the same thing as becoming saved and it is a process to become a Christian/be saved and the Christian has been given the accountability and responsibility to remain faithful/remain saved.

Therefore by being commanded to be faithful unto death and keep himself in the love of God the Christian OBVIOUSLY has been given a role in his own salvation. Failing to keep his role the Christian will become lost, guaranteed by the promise of God Who cannot lie.

So the Christian cannot think that the Holy Spirit does everything for the Christian while the Christian sits idly by.

And already covered this.
Becoming SAVED, IS a man Giving the Lord A "VOW"..... A "Contract" if you will.

Already covered this. No one expects a man to AGREE to a contract; WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE of what is IN the contract.

The Lord does not expect a man to make A TRUE VOW TO HIM....without Knowing anything ABOUT the Lord....without Knowing What the VOW entails.

The Scriptures ARE FULL of KNOWLEDGE of what it means for a man TO AGREE to make a VOW TO THE Lord.

The Knowledge IS NOT a man AGREEING.
The Knowledge IS PREPARING A MAN, so the man CAN MAKE an INFORMED decision TO CHOOSE to make a VOW TO THE Lord.....
Or NOT.

Becoming saved/becoming a Christian is by an obedient response to the gospel of Christ. Hebrews 5:9. As note above, one must CONDITIONALLY believe in his heart to receive the gift of salvation. Therefore belief is an obedient response to the gospel that must CONDITIONALLY be ongoing, continuous for one to receive salvation for if the Christian falls to remain faithful unto death, fails tl keep himself in the love of God he will become lost for not having CONDITIONALLY continues the required life long process of believing.

OT men were ACCOUNTED "FAITHFUL" "BY" their Belief IN God, and His Word.....and SHOWED their "OBEDIENCE" BY following the TO the Law, and doing the Word of God.

NT men were ACCOUNTED "FAITHFUL" "BY"
1) Obedience TO the Law (for a Jew)
2) Obedience TO Christ (for Gentile & Jew)

Same is TODAY.

This OBEDIENCE, hinges ON an individuals "BELIEF". NOT his wishy washy CARNAL MINDS BELIEF.....but rather WHAT his HEART truly BELIEVES, and "IF" the man IS WILLING to solicite the Lord/call on His Name and CONFESS his heartfelt belief........

"IF" a man does.......he is SAVED THEN and FOREVER.

"Obedience" thereafter; is according TO....
The Law? No.

"According TO"..... Gods PRECEPTS.

The Scriptures ARE FULL of Gods PRECEPTS...
Precepts means a general rule INTENDED to regulate a mans "thoughts" and "behavior".

The Scriptures really us; What thoughts and behaviors GOS favors and that which PLEASES Him.

The Scriptures also notify us; What happens TO the man whose thoughts and behaviors PLEASE GOD....and What happens TO the man whose thoughts and behaviors DO NOT Please God.

AND....that such things DO NOT AFFECT a MANS SALVATION......"WHO HAS RECEIVED his SALVATION."

God Bless,
Taken

I know of not one example of man in the Bible being reckoned righteous or justified BEFORE he was obedient to the will of God.

I have mentioned Abraham a few times referring to how the Bible speaks to his being reckoned righteous, justified was a process. This is why no one can produce the one verse that shows Abraham going from being a lost, unforgiven reprobate to being justified, saved in a single quick instance by having 'faith only'.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Salvation is a gift offered by God to those he wills to offer it to.

God has made the offer of salvation to all men, John 3:16.

And if given to a man or woman and then accepted through belief to saving faith it is given without any strings attached.

Though God has made a universal offer of salvation, it is received only by those that conditionally have and maintain faith. Maintaining faith is a life long process and if one is no faithful unto death he forfeits salvation.

We do not do anything else or doubt its existence. It is assured for life. God now resides in our hearts for good. It would be an insult to God if we started to work for salvation.


APAK

I think we can all agree no one can earn his salvation by doing his own works.

Therefore the Bible speaks of salvation as being a free gift that comes with CONDITIONS (both initial and continued faithful obedience to the will of God) and meeting the condition on free gift does not , cannot ever earn the free gift that has been offered.

 

[BreadOfLife]

AFTER BEING SAVED AND BORN AGAIN ....
AND KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD....

YOUR POWER TRUMPS GODS POWER?

Fascinating teaching, ERRONOUS, but yet fascinating that is what you were taught.....

The Prodigal son lesson DOES NOT APPLY to a SAVED and BORN AGAIN MAN.
(The Older Brother who REMAINED with his father, is the appropriate application for a SAVED and BORN AGAIN man.)

The Prodigal son lesson APPLIES to a man WHO was following Christ and Stopped....and then STARTS AGAIN following Christ.

Your CLAIM per usual is false.
KNOWLEDGE is NOT HOW a man become Saved.

What don't you get?
Salvation is not FORCED on a man....He has to ASK for the gift!!! He ASKS BY calling on the Lord and CONFESSING TO HIM!!!

I don't care HOW MUCH KNOWLEDGE A MAN HAS....IF HE DOESN"T CONFESS TO THE Lord.....the man simply has ALOT OF KNOWLEDGE and is doing NOTHING WITH IT!

Nonsense.

Nonsense.

The Scriptures are full of Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE. Anyone can pick up a Bible and have precise and correct knowledge.

IT IS THE UNDERSTANDING of the KNOWLEDGE that is reserved FOR men IN CHRIST.

Probably because you spend so much time saying people are Wrong, Ranting and Blathering.......that quoting, revealing and Explaining to you is beyond your ability to understand......
You don't bother to verify.....when it is so much more fun for you to simply repeat over and over and over THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE WHAT IS WRITTEN and SHOWN you.

Another long rant - another list of denials and inventions . . .

Epignosis has been explained to you so many times by now that an infant could understand - but you STILL deny. ALL who have epignosis of Christ have been born again - and the Bible warns those very people that they can LOSE their salvation (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

As for the Parable of the Prodigal Son - it shows that a person CAN be a son of God and LOSE everything. Remember what the Father said upon his return: "My son was DEAD and is alive again. He was LOST and is found."

Finally - when it comes to providing even ONE verse of Scripture to support your false Protestant invention of OSAS - you have FAILED miserably on multiple threads because that verse doesn't exist . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, did you not agree just a few days ago that James 2 is not referring to losing salvation?

It's NOT about losing salvation - and that's NOT why I brought it up.
It's about "belief" being insufficient without ACTION.

BOL, those who do not believe are nonbelievers, they have never come to faith in Jesus Christ. The definition of belief is not obedience, it is faith in HIM and what He did on the cross.

And simple belief is NOT true faith.
TRUE faith = Belief + Obedience.

Even the DEMONS believe - but they don't have FAITH (James 2:19).

Not once in John 5 is the word "obedience" mentioned, and you wonder why "obedience" is only mentioned 12 times in the KJV. God bless.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard - and a ridiculous example of denial.

FIRST of all - the fact that obedience is mentioned 12 times in the KJV means that it is pretty important.

Secondly - Not ONE of the 10 Commandments uses the word "Obedience" - but the very nature of the Commandments is 100% obedience.

Finally- the ENTIRE theme of the Bible is about obedience vs. disobedience.
What Book are YOU reading??

 

[APAK]

Hi.

"Being saved" is a present tense participle and depicts salvation as being a process as opposed to something that happens UNconditonally at one quick instance in time when one has "faith only" and is UNconditionally guaranteed salvation no matter how he lives.

Salvation is conditional but is also a life long process..faithful unto death.



Justification in the life of Abraham was a process (Gen 12:1-4 > Gen 22:1-12). Not something that happened one quick instance in time due to Abraham having faith only.




There is nothing grammatically wrong with "being saved". Again it is a present tense participle showing a current ongoing action.



"For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are currently, ongoingly being saved".
The present tense has to do with right now and not a future tense dealing with what takes place in the future.



Again, the present tense denotes a current, ongoing action, a current ongoing process.

Question: If a man become a Christians and is faithful in worship attendance, faithful in his Bible study, he teaches Bible classes and even leads many others to have faith in Christ and does this for many years, but then one day runs off with his new neighbors wife and living and dying in adultery. If being a Christian and salvation are NOT a process, then will you argue that this man will be saved in his sinful adulterous state anyway?

[/QUOTE]

ETB..got back to your ?

That is a great question with a typical and realistic life experience attached. I actually shared this life experience with some variations, in my life. So, let me answer this as a testament to the saving power and grace of God, that is PERMANENT. God never lies and never goes back on his word.

Here’s my brief testimony I have already shared with some on the site, in a parts.

I became a Christian one day when I heard the message of salvation directly from the word of God by a work mate of mine. I believed as the word of God spoke to my heart and mind. It told me the truth about me and my life and future. It spoke of my works that were as rags, the wages of my sins is death, confessing and repenting of my sins to God by believing in Jesus the only son of God with the promise of eternal life. I became overwhelmed and something within suddenly changed. It physically and mentally changed me.

I felt a peace come over me. Within an hour I began to ‘eat’ the Bible my mate left me. I was on fire. God gave me the saving faith as a gift because of my miserable although genuine and heartfelt belief. He took favor on me and his grace saved me. It was a life changing event.

Moving a little backwards in time, I was an exemplary Catholic model and a specimen of excellence, according to the nuns, priests, parents, and other adults. My mother even aske me if I wanted to become a priest when I was at that time, 14 years old.

I knew and read some scripture separate from the Catechism, had a special voice in the choir, an altar boy and always obedient to my parents, teachers and elders.

Back to my salvation date. I was married, and my wife become a believer by the time she was 12 years old, according to her.

We had two lovely children – boys. I always prayed for them and my family. My work and career were going great, blossoming. I loved the Lord, then one day when I was 39 years old my boys, young adults became very rebellious and selfish, my wife did not have time for me anymore and she became indifferent to me, and my work was in jeopardy, I began to turn inward for the first time in my spiritual walk and life. I wanted to play ‘god’ and convinced myself my family was very ungrateful and uncaring. I need love and I was missing it. My work caused me to work out of the home and we constantly moved from State to State. We live like gypsies.

One move, we were about to undertake was in Hawaii. I went ahead as usual. Guess what, I would call my wife to let her know I was working my new job and getting things ready for them as usual. She became a real complainer and whiner on the phone as I would call really to say I loved her. My boys would not lift a finger at home I felt like I was being taken for granted and unwanted.

Then evil came my way, a married woman that had her marriage problems. I convince myself I need to start over. Maybe this person and her family would love me. I nearly did with her until God intervened (as he was always there, and I just did not turn to him and yield my will back to his).

Things came back to a semi-normal or nearly normal state after about 7 months of pain for everyone. The was the first time that I was really aware that God dealt with me as a son that needed straightening out. I learned the lesson the ‘hard’ way, and restarted and came back on the track of life, on this track or narrow path I move faster these days, and I also have grown closer to God ever since - with a happy family ending.

Now, I never considered myself lost as in my salvation or that I walked away from the saving faith that God gave me in the first place. I have no self-will that I can get rid of this saving faith by myself even if I wanted to, because God is in me and will not let me go for anything. I always prayed and have sufficient faith during this dark time, beyond the saving faith God gave me when he saved me. He never takes this amount of faith from me. I lived with at least this saving faith level, and it was much more. I felt this faith within in. This faith is permanent and is mutually exclusive from any guilt sin or being less obedient to the will of God. These last two factors never affect or influence the saving faith within me that GOD gave me. I was saved before this ordeal and I was still saved after it.

My faith has grown stronger, well beyond the initial faith given to me by God, because I’ve been doing his will much more in my life today. When I was justified and became righteous in Jesus as God sees it, this spiritual view and salvation is NEVER lost. I’m still in the sanctification state of salvation awaiting glorification. I never lost my salvation. God is still in me, he never gave up on me, he promised me this fact.

This man caught in an adulterous state of your scenario, if he was once truly saved he is still saved, my friend. Do not be confused with even a grave sin and disobedience. These variables cannot lose this man’s salvation as some depressing religions have said and preached. This is what an unbeliever does, create doubt in a person and whispers in your ear that you are never ‘good’ enough for God. Once ‘saved’ you do not live in sin anymore. You have a wicked bias against It, even if occurs in your life as you grow spiritually. God does not see sin anymore in a saved person. It is dead, remember? You believed in your baptism, didn’t you? You believe in the word of God as the truth?

Now if this man in your scenario was not saved, he is still in a lost state and needs to be saved……


Hope this helps...


Bless you,

APAK

 

[Taken]

But OSAS says salvation is UNconditional

No it does not. Clearly "ONCE the receiving of the Salvation has occurred, IT IS Accomplished and Done".

therefore cannot be lost under ANY circumstance.

Correct. Salvation IS accomplished "BY and THROUGH Christ", that results in a man BEING "IN" Christ, FOREVER.

From what you posted above I get salvation is received and one must CONDITIONALLY believe in his heart.

Correct.
The Carnal Minds thoughts are ever changing, AND naturally AGAINST God, and naturally influenced.
A mans "natural spirit" IS his TRUE thoughts in his Heart.
It is from a mans "natual spirits" true thoughts in his heart, that the Lord SEEKS a mans CONFESSION of Belief IN Him.
It is there after the man IS:
Crucified Bodily with Christ.
Forgiven for his Disbelief.
His body, washed, cleansed, sanctified and kept with Christ, until he is redeemed and his body glorified.
His Soul Saved with forever Life.
His natural spirit, reborn, via Gods SEED.
His Heart circumcised; the old natural truth cut off and Gods Word written in his new heart.

Then it only makes logically sense one must conditionally continue to believe in his heart to continue having the promise of the gift of salvation. For if one quits believing he no longer meets to condition to receiving salvation therefore forfeits it.

He DOES KEEP BELIEVING.
IT IS THE CONVERSION AS mentioned above, and the Power of the Indwelling Spirit, that KEEPS a man in Belief and Faithfulness TO the Lord FOREVER.

The natural man IS spiritually dead and passed away. A new man IS spiritually alive IN CHRIST, forever.

Will you argue one can quit believing becoming an unbeliever yet still UNconditionally receive salvation?

A man WHO CAN believe and QUIT believing, is a man WHO HAS NOT received Salvation or a new birth.
That man like all men can RECEIVE KNOWLEDGE, and even say with HIS MINDS thoughts hey dude, ya sure, "I BELIEVE"...AND NEXT YEAR say to you hey dude, nah, I use to believe, but "I don't any more". Eh, "God is mean, he let my little daughter get sick and die".
People follow and believe......AND walk away for all kinds of "REASONS".

The ONLY WAY TO Receive the Lords Give of Salvation IS to truthfully believe in your heart;
AND Confess your belief TO THE Lord.

He IS the DOOR "TO" Salvation.
One MUST truly heartfully believe and ELECT to Give their Life TO HIM....and then they become entered THROUGH the Door....THROUGH CHRIST and thus IN Christ Once and forever.

1) the NT is full of examples, warnings, giving heed to Christians about becoming unfaithful and falling away becoming lost

Do you realize a complete HEATHEN is being gifted Faith from God, just because SOMEONE is speaking the Word of God in the Heathen's EAR?

That is why PREACHING the Word of God, SPEAKING the Word of God IS IMPRESSED.

If a heathen HEARING, is intrigued, he may be sparked to OPEN the Bible, go hear a Sermon, BEGIN believing, become INCREASED in faith.....and may one day have a Heart FULL of faith, THAT he calls on the Lord and Confesses Believe and himself Become Converted unto the Lord Forever.

Or he may elect to not believe, and he will have Lost what faith he had, and fall away and die in his sins and become FOREVER separated from the Lord.

2)

so there is not one verse in the NT that unconditionally guarantees the Christian can never become unfaithful and this is why Christians have been command to be faithful.

Really? So a Saved and born again man...MUST by his OWN power REMAIN Faithful? I can not guarantee today, that forever I, BY MY OWN POWER can remain Faithful.

But then He who IS IN ME IS SUPREME Power. I CHOSE to be Faithful to Him Forever.
I also KNOW, I have NOT the foresight or Power to ACCOMPLISH that. I CHOSE to give MY LIFE TO the Lord, and He accomplishes KEEPING ME IN FAITH "FULLNESS" TO Him, BY His POWER.

3)

there is no verse in the NT that puts the accountability and responsibility upon the Holy Spirit to see to it that the Christian will never become unfaithful and fall into a lost state. Rev 22:10 "be thou faithful unto death" is a command given to the Christian making the Christian the one accountable and responsible for remaining faithful unto death. Such commands being given to Christians in being "faithful unto death" and "keep yourselves in the love of God" (Jude 1:21) make no sense and are useless if it is impossible for the Christian to fall and be lost, if salvation is not a process, if the Holy Spirit has the task to seeing to it that Christians do not become unfaithful.

Why do you think ALL Commands in Scripture ARE TO Christians?

Did you overlook, Jesus came TO SAVE Lost JEWS? Jews who believed IN God, and turned toward Gentile WAYS, worldly WAYS?

Jesus CHOSE JEWS, taught them and SENT THEM out TO the LOST Jews.

Did you NOT notice, Jesus was on earth REVEALING TO JEWS, "HE" is their lang awaited Messiah? He fulfilled their laws and prophecies. YET, He did NOT destroy "THEIR" Law. WHAT foresight! The Jews had a marvelous interest, WHEN Jesus was on earth, and for several years while the Apostles were wandering from city to city preaching to the LOST Jews.

The Believing and Converted Jews did not "BECOME" Christians; THey became Saved and Born Again and the Faithful "IN" Christ.

TOday for the most part JEWS "who" remain obedient TO the Law, are STILL UNDER the LAW. THEY have to become SAVED, NOT BY BEING IN CHRIST, but rather by BEING IN OBEDIENCE TO THEIR LAW and FIATHFUL to their death......BY THEIR OWN POWER.

So, yes, that was stressed.
Does what they DO affect me? NO. I am "IN" Christ and "HIS POWER" IS in me.

Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. IF a man IS IN Christ, that applies TO that man.

Becoming a Christian is the same thing as becoming saved and it is a process to become a Christian/be saved and the Christian has been given the accountability and responsibility to remain faithful/remain saved.

You put WAY more weight on the word "Christian" than I do. A 5 year old can call himself a Christian and have NO knowledge that it IMPLIES SAVED and Born again.

Already SAID....
Learning the knowledge IS a process, for the man.
Deciding to Submit IS a thought process a man mulls over to consider.

Confessing is not a drawn out process.
It is an ACT by the man.
Receiving Salvation and a born again spirit from the Lord is not a drawn out process.
He IS patient for the man to Learn.
He IS instantly with the man who Confesses.
He QUICKLY converts the man, accomplishing the forgiveness, salavation and born again.

IS there MORE for a man TO DO after he IS saved and born again? Absolutely, and already covered that.

Therefore by being commanded to be faithful unto death and keep himself in the love of God the Christian OBVIOUSLY has been given a role in his own salvation. Failing to keep his role the Christian will become lost, guaranteed by the promise of God Who cannot lie.

So the Christian cannot think that the Holy Spirit does everything for the Christian while the Christian sits idly by.



Becoming saved/becoming a Christian is by an obedient response to the gospel of Christ. Hebrews 5:9. As note above, one must CONDITIONALLY believe in his heart to receive the gift of salvation. Therefore belief is an obedient response to the gospel that must CONDITIONALLY be ongoing, continuous for one to receive salvation for if the Christian falls to remain faithful unto death, fails tl keep himself in the love of God he will become lost for not having CONDITIONALLY continues the required life long process of believing.

Already covered this.

I know of not one example of man in the Bible being reckoned righteous or justified BEFORE he was obedient to the will of God.

Righteous or Justified....BY WHOM?

I have mentioned Abraham a few times referring to how the Bible speaks to his being reckoned righteous, justified was a process.

If you think yourself a Hebrew under the OLD Covenant, then FORGET everything FORWARD that was revealed. Follow their ways, and do as they did, BEFORE more knowledge was revealed.

I elect to KNOW what was fulfilled and have Elected to Believe the Jewish Messiah arrived and revealed believe in Him is the WAY for a man to Be Saved and Born Again, yet while I am ALIVE in my natural flesh, I live IN CHRIST Spiritually.

This is why no one can produce the one verse that shows Abraham going from being a lost, unforgiven reprobate to being justified, saved in a single quick instance by having 'faith only'.

Scripture does not SHOW Abraham being a reprobate. Abrahams faither was an idolater; made his living selling little statues. And Scripture itself shows Abraham had no qualms about leaving his father and going in the Way that God directed him to go.

Not sure your point, that ONLY reprobates need saving.

We are all born IN SIN and need Salvation "IF" one desires FOREVER LIFE "WITH the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Another long rant - another list of denials and inventions . . .

Epignosis has been explained to you so many times by now that an infant could understand - but you STILL deny. ALL who have epignosis of Christ have been born again - and the Bible warns those very people that they can LOSE their salvation (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

As for the Parable of the Prodigal Son - it shows that a person CAN be a son of God and LOSE everything. Remember what the Father said upon his return: "My son was DEAD and is alive again. He was LOST and is found."

Finally - when it comes to providing even ONE verse of Scripture to support your false Protestant invention of OSAS - you have FAILED miserably on multiple threads because that verse doesn't exist . . .

Can't be any plainer.
You prove on every post you are without Spiritual Understanding.
Your Carnal Understanding Rants and False accusations are beyond ad nauseam.

Calling others wrong and making False accusations DOES NOT MAKE YOU CORRECT.

Keep preaching God lies when He says Converted men are IN CHRIST and HIS SPIRIT IS IN THEM FOREVER.

But how would Spiriutal Understanding make sense to you? YOU CLAIMED you "were" born again; NOT BY YOUR ELECTION.

Men WHO Elect to believe AND GIVE their Life to the Lord BECOME NEW CREATURES....

Apparently YOUR Catholic Bible teaches that you can become a new man....then become the old man....LOL.

Ridiculous.