Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

[Heb 13:8]

That "works" heresy has been refuted 1000 times, but you can't stop pounding that stupid drum.

Let me ask you a question. What are you doing to not fall away?

When, exactly does the "until the redemption of those who are God's possession" occur? Does "until the redemption" mean instantly? Since when does redemption equal salvation? I see you ran from the question.

First resurrection and rapture.

"you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit," refers to the Sacrament of Confirmation, and the word "confirmation" has more that one application. Well, you sure proved me wrong; you found the word "confirmation" in the Bible. Good for you. Too bad the way you cherry pick a word has nothing to do with the laying on of hands, which you deny.

The Sacrament of Confirmation? I don't even know what that is, sounds like a religious term. Epostle1, being marked with the HS is in reference to the indwelling HS inside the believer. And by the way, Heb 6:16-20 is swimming in OSAS.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 The two went down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit 16 (for as yet the Spirit had not come upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (that you stubbornly deny)
BELIEF AND CONFESSION COMES FIRST, NOT LAST.

Acts 19:5-65 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (STEP 1) 6 When Paul had laid his hands on them, (THAT YOU STUBBORNLY DENY) the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied—(STEP 2)

Eph. 4:30 In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, (STEP 1)
the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, (STEP 2)
were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit; (STEP 3)

Epsotle1, placing on hands is not a condition for salvation. Paul just happened to be there with the people. You can believe and confess anywhere in your life. You don't need someone beside you placing hands on you. God accepts you right where you are in life.

You have lost all sense of order.

 

[Taken]

Oh geeze BOL!!!

IF a man has the Son the man HAS Life.

There is no option of Failure!

The Lords Word IS Truth....Period.

The Lords Word does not require a Failure Clause.

You either Believe His Word of Truth or you Do Not.

A Converted man IS Converted ONCE and HAS the Son and HAS eternal Life.

Some Trust To Believe the Lords Word stands True.....apparently Some churches teach otherwise.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh geeze BOL!!!
IF a man has the Son the man HAS Life.
There is no option of Failure!

The Lords Word IS Truth....Period.

The Lords Word does not require a Failure Clause.

You either Believe His Word of Truth or you Do Not.

A Converted man IS Converted ONCE and HAS the Son and HAS eternal Life.

Some Trust To Believe the Lords Word stands True.....apparently Some churches teach otherwise.

Great - now all you have to do is provide Scriptural proof for the claims in RED.
I've given you about NINE passages that say just the opposite is true.

I have shown you in GREAT detail that a few of these verses states that those who are BORN AGAIN (have Epignosis of Christ) can LOSE their security with God. CAN you refute this?? Because so far, you have failed miserably . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why do you Continue to make this absurd false claim?

Knowledge, Know, Knowing, Acknowledge is in Scripture over 2,000 times.

Not particularly a big secret Knowledge comes from God and stressed for ALL men to learn His knowledge.
Why you continue to babble on about knowledge when the OP is about rebirth of a NEW Creature, is deflective.

Ummmm, "Epignosis" is only used TWENTY times in the New Testament.
I don't know why you keep rejecting this word - even in the face of overwhelming evidence against you.

I suggest you go back and read post #94.
I noticed that you didn't address it at all . . .

 

[epostle1]

Let me ask you a question. What are you doing to not fall away?
First resurrection and rapture.
The Sacrament of Confirmation? I don't even know what that is, sounds like a religious term. Epostle1, being marked with the HS is in reference to the indwelling HS inside the believer. And by the way, Heb 6:16-20 is swimming in OSAS.
Epsotle1, placing on hands is not a condition for salvation. Paul just happened to be there with the people. You can believe and confess anywhere in your life. You don't need someone beside you placing hands on you. God accepts you right where you are in life.

You admit you don't know what the Sacrament of Confirmation is, but make dogmatic declarations about it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not only that, they didn't believe Jesus was God.

Mark 2:6-7 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Right - but it had absolutely NOTHING to do with Jesus "hating" religion as YOU claimed.

STRIKE ONE.

Yes I am. I am preaching the finished work of the cross. It's not my issue whether you believe it's finished or not. Many will not accept His free gift.

You're running from the point again.

The point was that YOU said that we are "hidden" - but the Scriptures say that we are supposed to be a VISIBLE entity to the world - a "city on a hill" that CANNOT be hidden.

STRIKE TWO.

What are you kidding, that passage is swimming in OSAS. The term apostasy in scripture is for those who have never come to faith in Christ, those who profess with their lips but do not believe in their hearts.

WRONG.
Apostasy is the RENUNCIATION of faith:

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/apostasy-apostate/
APOSTASY; APOSTATE

a-pos'-ta-si, a-pos'-tat (he apostasia, "a standing away from"):

I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith.

STRIKE THREE - you're OUT.

 

[BreadOfLife]

FULLY sanctified?
Scripture says "ARE Sanctified"...
1 Cor 6:11

So you do not believe Scripture?
Once of those who has to wait and See?

MOST of your Protestant scholars agree that sanctification is a PROCESS - and NOT a one-time event.
Soooo, in the Protestant world - WHO is right?? YOU - or them??

A FORGIVEN SINNER, is one WHO SINS NO MORE.
A Forgiven SINNER, is one WHO has received a Conversion from what he WAS, to what he IS.
Apparently you are UNKNOWING that Sin IS Darkness. God IS Light. A Converted man HAS Gods Holy Spirit WiTHIN him, WHICH IS LIGHT.. Such a converted mans SINS of darkness ARE OVERPOWERED by Gods LIGHT, Covered, remembered now more.
But then according to YOU, Gods INDWELLING Holy Spirit is apparently NOT SUFFICIENT LIGHT And a man WITH Gods LIGHT within them, CAN CONTINUE TO SIN.
Astounding!
Scripture says greater is he that is IN you than he that is in the World....sort of muffles your rejection of Converted men can not sin as 1 John 3:9 says, and you reject.

That's NOT what the Bible says (Rom. 7:7-25, 1 John 1:8).
BOTH Paul and John admitted that they STILL sinned. Why can't YOU??

Your spiritual pride is a DEADLY sin . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

You admit you don't know what the Sacrament of Confirmation is, but make dogmatic declarations about it.

Give me an example of what I did, and what is the S of C?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Right - but it had absolutely NOTHING to do with Jesus "hating" religion as YOU claimed.

Right, that's why the Pharisees are in heaven?

The point was that YOU said that we are "hidden" - but the Scriptures say that we are supposed to be a VISIBLE entity to the world - a "city on a hill" that CANNOT be hidden.

You say "we" in the context that BOL is born again and preaches the finished work of the cross?

2 Cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

WRONG.
Apostasy is the RENUNCIATION of faith:

What is Apostasy? Bible Meaning and Definition
APOSTASY; APOSTATE

a-pos'-ta-si, a-pos'-tat (he apostasia, "a standing away from"):

I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith.

BOL, scripture uses apostasy for nonbelievers only.

Thanks for the definition, but you're using it out of context. Faith is the subject or noun, as in a thing to possess through the seed of conception. Apostates never obtained the subject of what that faith is, which is the finished work of the cross. They've never experienced the conception of God's seed. They only had knowledge of it.

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

1Pe 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

STRIKE THREE - you're OUT.

The one who has Jesus Christ always wins in the end. God bless.

WRONG.
Apostasy is the RENUNCIATION of faith:

False knowledge, false belief, false claim.. they had no root which is Jesus Christ himself..

re·nun·ci·a·tion
rəˌnənsēˈāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
noun: renunciation; plural noun: renunciations
the formal rejection of something, typically a belief, claim, or course of action.
"entry into the priesthood requires renunciation of marriage"
synonyms: abstention from, refraining from, going without, giving up, eschewal of; More
LAW

Gen 3:5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

God bless.

 

[epostle1]

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

God bless.

Luke 8:13 refutes OSAS, and the rest of your replies make no sense to the quote.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right, that's why the Pharisees are in heaven?

HUH??

Why are you running from your earlier claim that Jesus "hated" religion??
I have destroyed that idea with Scripture - and bow you're back-pedaling.

You say "we" in the context that BOL is born again and preaches the finished work of the cross?
2 Cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

And again, you're running away from the original point.

YOU stated that Christians are "hidden". I destroyed that argument using Scripture that shows we are to be a VISIBLE entity - the LIGHT of the world. Christ's Church is like a "city on a hill" that cannot be hidden.

Stick to the conversation . . .

BOL, scripture uses apostasy for nonbelievers only.

Thanks for the definition, but you're using it out of context. Faith is the subject or noun, as in a thing to possess through the seed of conception. Apostates never obtained the subject of what that faith is, which is the finished work of the cross. They've never experienced the conception of God's seed. They only had knowledge of it.

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

1Pe 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

WRONG.

A person who never believed cannot go into apostasy. Apostasy is the repudiation of a ONCE-HELD tenet of faith.
Just as a man cannot cheat on a wife he is not married to - a person cannot apostatize if they aren't a born again believer.

What's the matter with you??
This is a matter of simple logic . . .

The one who has Jesus Christ always wins in the end. God bless.

Sure - as long as he STILL has Jesus and hasn't apostatized.

False knowledge, false belief, false claim.. they had no root which is Jesus Christ himself..

God bless.

That's NOT what the Bible says.
It says that those with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ can LOSE their security with God.

"Epignosis" is the ONE word that is destroying all of your arguments because it indicates a BORN AGAIN believer.
You can't win this argument because the Word of GOD is against you . . .[/QUOTE]

 

[Taken]

Great - now all you have to do is provide Scriptural proof for the claims in RED.
I've given you about NINE passages that say just the opposite is true

John 14:6
Jesus answered;
I am the WAY, the TRUTH, the LIFE.
No one comes to the Father EXCEPT through me.

You can freely to believe Jesus' Word, or not.

[/QUOTE]I have shown you in GREAT detail that a few of these verses states that those who are BORN AGAIN (have Epignosis of Christ) can LOSE their security with God. CAN you refute this?? Because so far, you have failed miserably . . .[/QUOTE]

No, I have not failed.

You do not comprehend;
Knowledge is a beginning that LEADS to a mans Conversion.
Security is the Word of God.
Everything that LEADS to a mans Conversion hinges on the Word of God.

Knowledge IS NOT the ACT that Converts a man.

The Word of God IS NOT an ACT that Converts a man.

A Heartfelt-felt Believing man Submitting and Giving his Life TO the Lord, Results in the ACT of the Lord Converting the man.

You have been TOLD and SHOWN umpteen times....EXACTLY what the ACT is that the Lord DOES....WHEN HE "Converts" a man..

The Lords ACT is not some kind of little wishy, washy, kind of, sort of, ACT.....as YOU purport;

As you claim, you were born again, WITHOUT it being Your choice, Your election, Your Calling on the Lord, Your repentance, and Your claims it does not INCLUDE Salvation of your SOUL, that you claim you can not receive Salvation ...... until the ending of your natural life....until you have ENDURED (something, you never say).....until you have COOPERATED (doing what, you never say)....
And while you continue the act of SIN, as you say you do.

Which is a load of hogwash, BY YOUR teaching, FOR a man WHO IS CONVERTED, YOU dictate and teach, THAT SUCH A MAN, "remains" under his OWN POWER, TO WAIT and SEE, "IF" his life/soul was ACCEPTABLE FOR THE Lord TO SAVE.

Different from YOU....
Knowledge DID NOT SAVE Me.

An ACT of my Lord, My Redeemer, My Christ Lord Jesus, My God, SAVED me, MADE me WHOLE, and wholly Acceptable TO Him.
BECAUSE I CHOSE Him.
BECAUSE I ELECTED Him ONLY, to Give MY LIFE TO HIM.

I don't WAIT TO SEE, IF my Lord was Kidding, or has some secret Caveat. I TRUST TO BELIEVE MY Lord God Almighty IS Faithful, and He has ACCOUNTED me Justified for Him to Come on a Day of His Chooseing and TAKE ME IN A GLORIFIED BODY, UNTO Him FOREVER, as a Bodily Member of HIS Church and a Citizen OF His Kingdom.

YOU? You can keep preaching about your kind of, sort of, Acts your lord, or your "holy father" or whomever you rely on to teach you..... I'll stick with the TRUTH...And TRUST in Christ the Lord Jesus.

 

[Taken]

YOU stated that Christians are "hidden". I destroyed that argument.

Lack of understanding and arrogance reveals ones foolishness.

The body of a CONVERTED man IS Dead, and IS HIDDEN with Christ in God.

Col 3:3

 

[APAK]

Luke 8:13 refutes OSAS, and the rest of your replies make no sense to the quote.

epostle1:
I have not provided any input to any of your posts for a while although you might want to actually see what Luke 8:13 means. It says those that do not genuinely believe in all requirements of salvation in their heart, no matter how long, usually not long (on the rock) will always fail and never receive salvation. They never convinced our God that their intentions were genuine, and therefore not given the 'root' to grow in God's provided faith.

(Luk 8:9) And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
(Luk 8:10) And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
(Luk 8:11) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
(Luk 8:12) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
(Luk 8:13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
(Luk 8:14) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
(Luk 8:15) But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Verse 11: Jesus points out that the gospel message is the seed

Verse 12: Some hear the gospel message as a seed to their hearts, Unfortunately, the evil within their natural unconverted hearts dominated by their natural minds throws the seed out as soon as it enters the heart. These people DO NOT really believe the gospel in their hearts and thus cannot be saved. They genuinely do not believe so as to push their natural will aside and reach out to God for salvation.

Verse 13: These people are happy to hear the gospel message for salvation. They believe the message although they never confessed and then repented of their sins. That is why when tempted with sin they stopped in their belief immediately. They never genuinely believed the gospel and ALL that it required for salvation. They did not receive the saving faith (the root that is the gift from God) for salvation.

Again, there is nothing here in verse 13 saying that one loses their salvation once received by God.


Bless you,

APAK

 

[Taken]

APAK ~

Some people teach a Confusing message ABOUT Salvation.

Men can hear the truth, experience receiving Faith for hearing and believing the truth......
But then decide eh...nah...not for them.

The hearing, believing, experiencing receiving Faith......DID NOT SAVE them....they absolutely CAN WALK away, which IS THEM falling from Faith.

Scripture never teaches Falling from Salvation, but does teach one can LOSE their Salvation.....It is a Gift LOST to them, for them NEVER HAVING solicited the Lord TO Repent and Receive the Salvation He Prepared, He Gave His Body and His Blood...for all TO have eternal LIFE, with Him.

It is ODD, how some can recognize, Salvation IS a gift, a gift for all, AND THAT IT IS NOT FORCED on anyone.....but then they turn a blind eye and IGNORE a man has to solicite the Lord, CALL ON Him, FOR HIM TO GIVe THEM the gift.

Some on preaching....hey, this guy believed, hey, this guy says he is a Christian, hey, this guy was taught the Word of God, hey, this guy has mega knowledge of God, hey, Paul was preaching to Converts.....
Hey, Hey, Hey.........

ONLY a Converted man IS "IN" Christ.
And Paul spoke to crowds. Not all in the crowd were Converted. He speaks to both.
Praising some who are Converted, teaching How to serve the Lord, and Warning others who are not Converted, that the time is of the essence, to ACT, before they die and LOSE their opportunity to RECEIVE Salvation.

And Some are teaching, AS IF, Being Saved and Born Again ARE NOT ACTS of the Lord DURING a mans Conversion.
Saying they ARE born Again, but must WAIT until the end of their life to SEE, IF the Lord will SAVE them<---- Weird!

Waiting until the end of their LIFE?

Good Grief, did they miss the episode of being CRUCIFIED with Christ? The ending of their OLD MAN LIFE? The OLD FLESH is accounted DEAD, DEAD to SIN ? And the NEW MAN Lives IN Christ? Born OF Gods SEED and CAN NOT SIN? A son of God, CAN NOT SIN!

They STILL CLAIM to Commit SIN...
What SIN do they ACTUALLY COMMIT?
THEY avoid ever saying.....WHY?

Because, THEIR "sin" IS SIN, according to Jewish Law.

Double speak.... Claiming NOT UNDER the LAW, yet SIN, according to the Law.

They are Gentiles, corruptly steeped from baby-hood in Jewish Laws, while calling themselves Christians, AS IF, playing across the board will secure them.

The Jews still under the Law, IS NOT ONLY about SIN. IF one IS still UNDER THE LAW, they must ENDURE obedience according TO the Law, which INCLUDES customs, traditions, feasts, observances.
Their ENDURANCE to keep believing, keep observing the Law, the Festivals, the Feasts, and in doing so, THEY SHALL BE SAVED, as were their forefathers who did the same.
THEY have to ACT by their OWN power of endurance.........Hello.......they do not have the POWER of God "IN" them.

A CONVERTED MAN, "Has the Power of God IN him"....He does not have to try really hard to keep Believing. At the mans solicitation, The Lord MADE the man, FOREVER FAITH-FULL, Freed from Sin, and KEPT by the Power of God.

It seems SOME churches spend more time and effort teaching "their" church "rules" than, the Lord God IS SUPREME TRUTH, POWER, FAITHFUL,
And WHEN HE Converts a man IT IS Once and Forever.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Heb 13:8]

Why are you running from your earlier claim that Jesus "hated" religion??
I have destroyed that idea with Scripture - and bow you're back-pedaling.

I guess "hates" is a strong word, rather it makes Jesus sad to see people reject him. You destroyed that idea alright.

Matt 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

YOU stated that Christians are "hidden". I destroyed that argument using Scripture that shows we are to be a VISIBLE entity - the LIGHT of the world. Christ's Church is like a "city on a hill" that cannot be hidden.

Stick to the conversation . . .

I guess God is in contradiction then.

A person who never believed cannot go into apostasy. Apostasy is the repudiation of a ONCE-HELD tenet of faith.
Just as a man cannot cheat on a wife he is not married to - a person cannot apostatize if they aren't a born again believer.

What's the matter with you??
This is a matter of simple logic . . . Sure - as long as he STILL has Jesus and hasn't apostatized.

There you go again, using human logic to describe divinity, similar to comparing our sinful fathers on earth to our heavenly one. You know that bit, you can walk away from your father but he's still your father by blood. Jesus blood that is.

That's NOT what the Bible says.
It says that those with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ can LOSE their security with God.

"Epignosis" is the ONE word that is destroying all of your arguments because it indicates a BORN AGAIN believer.
You can't win this argument because the Word of GOD is against you . . .

Heb 6 and Heb 10 are both cross references for maturity in Christ, it has nothing to do with losing salvation. Context and spiritual maturity are key to understanding those passages.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Luke 8:13 refutes OSAS, and the rest of your replies make no sense to the quote.

It actually doesn't. Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas). They did not have the root of salvation. God bless.

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

 

[epostle1]

It actually doesn't. Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas). They did not have the root of salvation. God bless.

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

You refute yourself.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You refute yourself.

Do you deny the Synoptic Gospels?

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

 

[epostle1]

Do you deny the Synoptic Gospels?

No, I deny your abuse of them. I don't accept everything in John Gill's commentary because he is a biased Baptist hyper-Calvinist with a freeze dried theology written over 300 years ago, although I have used it myself on rare occasion.

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

These verses refute OSAS. They ALL say they are saved, and they ALL say they fall away. You have been arguing that a believer cannot fall away. Again, you refute yourself.