Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

[BreadOfLife]

No. What it amounts to is you want answers, but you don't like the answers, so you claim, it is simply a rant unworthy of your consideration.
Also you were asked questions about your own standing, that you apparently have no answers for.
There is your first error. Why would you ask for False Scriptural teaching? Weird.


You have been shown repeatedly A Conversion is FOREVER.
I can not understand the meaning of FOREVER for you. And apparently your gray matter can not comprehend its meaning.
That is false and you know it.
That is false, but then you simply call everything a rant, which simply tells me you lack comprehension skills.

So? If you could comprehend express dialogue to you, I have said on numerous replies to you, a man Can fall away....so?

The Point is a MAN "IN" Christ ...;
A Converted MAN....;
A Saved and Born again MAN;
CAN NEVER FALL AWAY!!

And your endless response to that?
Gee....but, but, but, this guy had KNOWLEDGE and BELIEVED...

Whoopie!!
ANY man can have KNOWLEDGE of the Lord..
THAT DOES NOT CONVERT the man!
ANY man can BELIEVE in the Lord...
THAT DOES NOT CONVERT the man!

The Lord DOES NOT DRAG and FORCE a man TO CALL ON THE Lord, and FORCE a man to be Converted, because the man Believes or the because the man has Knowledge.

HOW IGNORANT!

A man HAS TO DECIDE "IF" he desires TO BECOME Converted!!!

AND IF he does.....he shall call on the Lord and make his Confession to the Lord.
AND IF his Confession be heartfully TRUE, the Lord WILL Convert the man.

You Deciding men in Scripture ARE Converted because they believed and have knowledge....and the falling away....
MENTIONS NOTHING of them BECOMING CONVERTED.

You repeatedly reveal you are without understanding, and attempt to justify your lack of understanding with derogatory comments.

You do not supersede the truth, nor comprehend the truth.

The Lord is not a LIAR.
He is Transforming natural creatures INTO New Creatures. Nothing whatsoever in Scripture says A New Creature reverts to the Old Creature.

You don't even seem to comprehend Christ is Spiritually building "HIS" Church, By His power to Convert a man and Keep the man converted Forever.

And BTW, HIS Church is not called the Catholic Church, nor is it built with hands of men, storing up statues and artwork.
Paul speaking to ROMANS, about Jewish Law and Sin under the Law...and your basis for making your false assumption ...

No, the bible does not disagree.
1 John 3;9

Why not get to the nitty gritty, instead of talking about SIN under Jewish Law and pretending you know men in scripture.

What are these sins you keep talking about that a Converted save and born man commits?

You claim it, so give examples of sins YOU commit....the Consequences of such sins...and the paralleling Scripture.

And your entire regurgitated rant bolis down to the text above in RED.

No matter HOW many times it has been explained to you - you refuse to accept the meaning of "Epignosis".
As I have educated at least 2 dozen times now - this isn't a simple "Knowledge" being spoken if. It is a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge.

EVERY born again person has an Epignosis of Christ. In fact ONLY born again people have a Epignosis of Christ.
As I educated you before - both Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 state that those with this "Epignosis" can LOSE their security with God.

Once you can make it past that understanding - the scales MAY fall from your eyes . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

Eph. 1:13 – Paul writes that the baptized Ephesians were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, in reference to confirmation

What's the difference between a born again Ephesian and a born again believer in 2018? The book of Ephesians was written years after Acts 2:1-4. God's "holy people" were scattered everywhere. Paul just happened to be in the city of Ephesus. Paul easily witnessed to 15 cities before that.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God's holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Romans 8:33-39 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died-more than that, who was raised to life-is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our LORD.

The family of God in heaven and the family of God on earth IS ONE FAMILY. You guys have separated God's love into departments.

No epostle1, universalism is false. Those who are the family of God on earth are those who believe and confess John 3:16, Rom 10:9. Once the believers are adopted into the family through belief, they now become part of the family of God in heaven. This is our inheritance that awaits us in heaven upon believing. Eternal life is only granted through belief and confession, Rom 10:9.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory

1 Pet 1:4-5 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Heb 13:8]

WHO told you that Jesus "hates" religion??
Matt. 23 says absolutely nothing about Him "hating" religion. A good deal of that chapter is about the hypocrisy of the Pharisees - and NOT the Jewish religion itself. It's about how they exalted themselves above others - and in some cases even GOD.

Yes, Jesus hated religion because it spits in the face of what He died for. A hypocrite is one who professes to be a Christian but has never experienced a New Birth, conception of His seed, being born again BOL. Are you born again??

As for Colossians 3:3 - this does NOT mean that the Church is some kind of "invisible" entity.
On the contrary - Jesus boldly proclaims that His Church is the Light of the world - a city on a hill that CANNOT be hidden (Matt. 5:14).

Don't just quote or reference Scripture.
LEARN what it means, first.

That's right, we are the light of the world. It's just ashame you deny my testimony and choose religion or should i say you choose non-osas, 1 Jhn 5:9-14. Even Jesus himself couldn't convince the Pharisees He is God. I guess we are hidden after all. God bless.

 

[epostle1]

What's the difference between a born again Ephesian and a born again believer in 2018? The book of Ephesians was written years after Acts 2:1-4. God's "holy people" were scattered everywhere. Paul just happened to be in the city of Ephesus. Paul easily witnessed to 15 cities before that.
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God's holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

This has nothing to do with Ephesians 1:13. The word "confirmation" is not in the Bible, but the meaning and practice is there.

No epostle1, universalism is false. Those who are the family of God on earth are those who believe and confess John 3:16, Rom 10:9. Once the believers are adopted into the family through belief, they now become part of the family of God in heaven. This is our inheritance that awaits us in heaven upon believing. Eternal life is only granted through belief and confession, Rom 10:9.

I gave a brief description of the Body of Christ similar to yours. I agree that universalism is false.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

To you the seal is an act of the intellect. The Bible says the seal is received with the laying on of hands by a bishop/apostle.

1 Pet 1:4-5 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

You can't get your "guaranteed inheritance" ahead of time. If a person perseveres to the end, then dies, then goes to heaven to be with God, their inheritance can never perish, spoil or fade. OSAS is a man made tradition that is not in the Bible. There is much confusion about predestination to grace and predestination to glory, which is partly why this topic goes on and on.

 

[Taken]

And your entire regurgitated rant bolis down to the text above in RED.

No matter HOW many times it has been explained to you - you refuse to accept the meaning of "Epignosis'

EPIGNOSIS simply means;
Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE.

There is no issue with men in the Bible who were given Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE.

"YOUR EXPLAINING" has "determined" that "ONLY" men "WITH" Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE, "means" "THEY" ARE BORN AGAIN.

Scripture says no such thing.

A man HAVING Presice and Correct KNOWLEDGE DOES NOT MEAN, they have ACCEPTED Christ as their SAVIOR and have BECOME CONVERTED.

It means they have been given Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE.

As I have educated at least 2 dozen times now - this isn't a simple "Knowledge" being spoken if. It is a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge.

You EXPANDING the meaning of Epignosis does not make what you claim TRUE.

Every Apostle taught precise and correct Knowledge, that you are attempting to downgrade as "simple knowledge".

ANYONE can hear and receive Precise and Correct Knowledge.
(Satan did, Judas did, others did.)

What you FAIL to recognize is Receiving KNOWLEDGE IS NOT HOW A MAN BECOMES CONVERTED!

It is a man ACCEPTING the KNOWLEDGE as precise and correct .........AND..........THEN........
The man choosing to GIVE HIS LIFE TO THE Lord.

EVERY born again person has an Epignosis of Christ. In fact ONLY born again people have a Epignosis of Christ.

Hogwash!
ANY man hearing Scriptural KNOWLEDGE is receiving precise and correct knowledge.

Men in Crowds listening to Jesus speak were ALL receiving precise and correct knowledge.

What you fail to comprehend is .... NOT ALL men in even Jesus' crowd of listeners .......
BELIEVED the precise and correct Knowledge they were given.

Hearing and Receiving precise and correct KNOWLEDGE.....IS NOT HOW A MAN IS CONVERTED!

A man IS CONVERTED BY believing AND electing to GIVE his life TO the Lord.

A man WHO IS Converted, thereafter HAS ACCESS "TO" the Lords "SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING" "OF" the precise and correct knowledge.

As I educated you before - both Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 state that those with this "Epignosis" can LOSE their security with God.

Not a newsflash. ANY man can lose their security ..... BY rejecting to BELIEVE the precise and correct knowledge of God.

ANY man can lose their Salvation.....By NOT Becoming Converted.

Once you can make it past that understanding - the scales MAY fall from your eyes . . .

Your teaching of what words mean is corrupt.
Your teaching of How a man IS converted is Corrupt.
Your teaching a man can be a Converted New Creature and then become the Old Creature is Corrupt.

You touting yourself everyone's teacher and educator is only in your own mind. Apparently you do not notice, no one is soliciting you as their educator. And what you do teach is not in line with Scripture and thus rejected.

 

[Taken]

When, exactly does the "until the redemption of those who are God's possession" occur? Does "until the redemption" mean instantly? Since when does redemption mean salvation?
"you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit," refers to the Sacrament of Confirmation.

The Lord Christ Jesus IS the Redeemer.
When the Lord Redeems a man, the man Becomes His People.
The Lord Redeems men, BY declaring them changed and ACCEPTABLE TO HIM, AND ARE BELONGING TO HIM ONLY....AND ARE HIS to Take unto Himself.
Men ARE redeemed WHILE they are on the Earth, ACCOUNDTED belonging to The Lord God Almighty, in His hand forever.
There shall be a DAY when the Lord Shall remove His People from the Earth, WHILE the Earth is being Restored.

Acts 8:14-17 – the people of Samaria were baptized in Christ, but did not receive the fullness of the Spirit until they were confirmed by the elders. Confirmation is a sacrament that Jesus Christ instituted within His Catholic Church to further strengthen those who have reached adulthood.

The Catholic church is not the Lords exclusive church.

The Lords Church is not a building.
The Lords Church IS not sticks, stones and mortar, built with hands of men.

The Lords Church is BEING Built, BY HIM, daily ADDING "Members" to His Church BY HIM Converting willing men.
His Earthly Kingdom is being built daily, by HIM ADDING Converted men to the citizenship roles OF HIS earthly Kingdom.

It is the Lord WHO confirms a man who is Converted, as ONCE and Forever belonging to the Lord.

Earthly built churche, elders, congregation, can only recognize and acknowledge by observing and testimony and recording the Conversion of any particular man.

Their "records" are simply an indication.
It is the Lords records of who is and who isn't that are TRUE and CORRECT, and per HIS records SHall He Come on a particular Day and Claim all that He has Redeemed.

Acts 19:5-6 – the people of Ephesus were baptized in Christ, but Paul laid hands on them to seal them with the Holy Spirit. This sealing refers to the sacrament of confirmation.

Every man THAT has TRULY become Converted IS SEALED, BY the Holy Spirit unto the Lord Forever.

Men such as Paul, can TEACH, the Sealing occurred for a TRULY Converted man.
However a man does not DO the Sealing, the Holy Spirit does.

ONLY the individual man and the Lord "KNOW" what a mans' Heart truly believes and confesses.

Men are simply trusting a mans confession is truly heartfelt true Confession.

You should have learned, MEAN are liars, and many men GIVe a false Confession of Belief.
Other men can be fooled, but the Lord IS NOT FOOLED.

Any man CALLING THEMSELVES "Christians", or "CATHOLICES" or "Protestants" IS NOT the Lords method for determining a man is Converted....

It is simply an INDICATION, that a particular man IS Following after Christ's teachings, and SO FAR, believing what he is learning.

A Christian denomination affiliation DOES not
Supersede one over the other.

For ANY church to claim to be a Christian Church, their CLAIM is all the same....
THAT:
Jesus IS thee Christ Lord who died and rose again, and thee ONE God IS THEE;
Lord God Almighty creator and maker of all things.

To pretend that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who happens to ATTEND a Christian Church, to hear and learn About God......IS Converted IS Ludicrist.

TO Teach men distribute the Lords Gift of Salvation, of Gods rebirthing a spirit is NOT Scriptural.

TO teach the Lord is IGNORANT and UNKNOWING and can be FOOLED by a false Confession, is NOT Scriptural.

TO Teach the Lord Converts a man into a New Creature, and THEN Rejects what His Has Accomplished in a man, is NOT Scriptural.

To teach a man CAN LOSE his standing WITH the Lord AFTER a Conversion, IS NOT Scriptural.

To teach because a man heard and learned Scriptural KNOWLEDGE, means the man IS Converted, IS NOT Scriptural.

Eph. 1:5 There are two types of “predestination,” to grace and to glory. In this verse, Paul is teaching about predestination to grace, which means becoming a Christian.

More precisely, it means becoming Converted.
Jews of today, can become Converted. They do not call themselves Christians.

1 Pet. 1:1-2 – Peter teaches about being destined by God for obedience to Christ. This is another example of predestination to grace. But there is also predestination to glory.

More simply put;
Because of Gods Grace;
Many ARE CALLED. Many Hear, but Many DO NOT Willingly give their Life to the Lord.
By and through Gods Glory, (which IS HIS LIGHT),
Those who are Converted, Receive their glory.
Their glory IS NOT Gods Glory given them....BUT IS rather, Gods Glory (Light) reflected ON and IN them.

Rev. 3:5 – Jesus warns that He can blot out the names that are in the book of life. This refers to those currently, not ultimately, justified (those who are predestined to grace, but not to glory). In order for Jesus to blot out the names, they have to be in the book of life in the first place. This verse refutes OSAS.

Nonsense.
If you were Naturally born, and alive, YOU have life. Your name IS in Gods book of Life,
Refuse to believe and become Converted, your name WILL BE Blotted out

The REMAINING NAMES, of men WHO HAVE BECOME Converted, shall never BE BLOTTED OUT. They ARE Already REDEEMED, SHALL BE Claimed when the Lord CALLS THEM UP TO THE CLOUDS.

. 18:23-24, 32 – God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Our death is our freewill, failing to respond to His grace.

No. Our Life IS OUR Blood. Our Life, ie OUR Blood IS REQUIRED By God. He shall takethe life of ALL men, believers and unbelievers.

The KEY is WHILE a man IS alive in his own life, (ie his blood), he has those years, that time to hear and learn about God and His Messiah and His Holy Spirit and willingly CHOOSE to believe, submit and become Converted.....or not.

After the blood life is taken by God, there is no life left in the man to willingly decide to make his submission to the Lord. Such a man is condemned and forever shall be separated from Life, and the Lord God.

God does not predetermine certain people to hell. God also does not predetermine certain “elect” people to heaven.

Predetermine? He PRE-KNOWS, and Prepares a place for ALL men, (angels too), for those WHITH Him and those Against Him.

We all, as God’s children, have been given the grace we need to be saved, but we can decide to reject God’s grace.

Sure. And you will miss out on the gift of being Converted.

The family of God in heaven and the family of God on earth IS ONE FAMILY. You guys have separated God's love into departments.

That is a false claim.
God loves all of his creations....PERIOD.

God does the Separationg, the Dividing.
Those WHO are Converted are WITH Him forever.
Those WHO are still ciphering IF they willing will become Converted....Many physically die (their blood being taken by God)....and condemned....thus the enormous teaching about the urgency to become converted.
Those who reject and stand Against God.

The DIVIDING has NOTHING to do WITH the Lords Love.
It has to do with STANDING.
You are either WITH HIM "WHOLE-HEARTLY" or you are AGAINST HIM....Period.

And ONCE a mans standing IS Wholeheartly WITH the LORD, and the man CONVERTED...
IT IS FOREVER the Holy Spirit KEEPS that man in Standing WITH THE Lord.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, Jesus hated religion because it spits in the face of what He died for. A hypocrite is one who professes to be a Christian but has never experienced a New Birth, conception of His seed, being born again BOL. Are you born again??

No - Jesus doesn't hate religion. That is simply YOUR perversion of Matt. 23.
He was chastising the Pharisees for their perversion of religion because it wasn't pure.

James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Pure and undefiled religion IS a good thing.

That's right, we are the light of the world. It's just ashame you deny my testimony and choose religion or should i say you choose non-osas, 1 Jhn 5:9-14. Even Jesus himself couldn't convince the Pharisees He is God. I guess we are hidden after all. God bless.

First of all, if you are "hidden" - then you're NOT doing your job as a follower of Christ.

Finally - 1 John 5:9-14 says NOTHING about OSAS. That's a perversion of MAN - not God.
It simply says that IF we have the Son, we have life. It DOESN'T say that you cannot go into apostasy and later reject the Son.

 

[Heb 13:8]

This has nothing to do with Ephesians 1:13. The word "confirmation" is not in the Bible, but the meaning and practice is there.

Phl 1:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

Heb 6:16-20 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. 17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: 19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

I gave a brief description of the Body of Christ similar to yours. I agree that universalism is false.

And to be a part of the Body of Christ one must believe and confess, Rom 10:9

To you the seal is an act of the intellect. The Bible says the seal is received with the laying on of hands by a bishop/apostle.

No, the seal is the result of BELIEF and CONFESSION. It has nothing to do with laying on hands.

Rom 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

You can't get your "guaranteed inheritance" ahead of time. If a person perseveres to the end, then dies, then goes to heaven to be with God, their inheritance can never perish, spoil or fade. OSAS is a man made tradition that is not in the Bible. There is much confusion about predestination to grace and predestination to glory, which is partly why this topic goes on and on.

I would agree there is much confusion, but God is of peace not confusion. Non-Osas mixes grace with works, sanctification with works. Fails every time. God bless.

 

[BreadOfLife]

EPIGNOSIS simply means;
Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE.

There is no issue with men in the Bible who were given Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE.

"YOUR EXPLAINING" has "determined" that "ONLY" men "WITH" Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE, "means" "THEY" ARE BORN AGAIN.
Scripture says no such thing.
A man HAVING Presice and Correct KNOWLEDGE DOES NOT MEAN, they have ACCEPTED Christ as their SAVIOR and have BECOME CONVERTED.
It means they have been given Precise and Correct KNOWLEDGE.
You EXPANDING the meaning of Epignosis does not make what you claim TRUE.
Every Apostle taught precise and correct Knowledge, that you are attempting to downgrade as "simple knowledge".
ANYONE can hear and receive Precise and Correct Knowledge.
(Satan did, Judas did, others did.)
What you FAIL to recognize is Receiving KNOWLEDGE IS NOT HOW A MAN BECOMES CONVERTED!
It is a man ACCEPTING the KNOWLEDGE as precise and correct .........AND..........THEN........
The man choosing to GIVE HIS LIFE TO THE Lord.

Hogwash!
ANY man hearing Scriptural KNOWLEDGE is receiving precise and correct knowledge.
Men in Crowds listening to Jesus speak were ALL receiving precise and correct knowledge.
What you fail to comprehend is .... NOT ALL men in even Jesus' crowd of listeners .......
BELIEVED the precise and correct Knowledge they were given.
Hearing and Receiving precise and correct KNOWLEDGE.....IS NOT HOW A MAN IS CONVERTED!
A mn IS CONVERTED BY believing AND electing to GIVE his life TO the Lord.
A man WHO IS Converted, thereafter HAS ACCESS "TO" the Lords "SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING" "OF" the precise and correct knowledge.
Not a newsflash. ANY man can lose their security ..... BY rejecting to BELIEVE the precise and correct knowledge of God.
ANY man can lose their Salvation.....By NOT Becoming Converted.

Your teaching of what words mean is corrupt.
Your teaching of How a man IS converted is Corrupt.
Your teaching a man can be a Converted New Creature and then become the Old Creature is Corrupt.
You touting yourself everyone's teacher and educator is only in your own mind. Apparently you do not notice, no one is soliciting you as their educator. And what you do teach is not in line with Scripture and thus rejected.

Your repeated denials of what Epignosis means aren't "evidence" of anything. They simply mean that you reject the Word of God.

Epignosis is a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of Christ. EVERYONE who has an Epignosis of Christ is born again - and I will destroy your argument against this fact with ONE verse . . .

2 Pet. 1:3 says the following:
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge (epignosis) of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

His divine power has given us EVERYTHING we need for a godly life through our EPIGNOSIS.
This is describing a BORN AGAIN believer who became born again because of Epignosis of Christ

Instead of your constant denials - have a little FAITH in God's Word . . .

 

[Taken]

Your repeated denials of what Epignosis means aren't "evidence" of anything. They simply mean that you reject the Word of God.

What an utterly False statement.
I have said no such thing.

Making up false claims for other people simply shows your own claims are weak,

Epignosis is a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of Christ.[/QOTE]

Cite your reference "Epignosis mean EXPERIENTAL knowledge of Christ".

2 Pet. 1:3

says the following:
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge (epignosis) of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

His divine power has given us EVERYTHING we need for a godly life through our EPIGNOSIS.
This is describing a BORN AGAIN believer who became born again because of Epignosis of Christ

Yes I see your credit yourself saying "through our". I disagree.

I credit the Lord that everything is "Through Him".

2 Pet 1:3
ACCORDING AS his divine power hath given us all thing that pertain unto life and godliness,
THROUGH the KNOWLEDGE OF HIM that he hath called us to glory and virtue:

A man BECOMES born again, WHEN he confesses heartfelt belief and gives his life TO the Lord.

Instead of your constant denials - have a little FAITH in God's Word . . .

Attempting to make yourself creditable by making false claims for others, is simply you mimicing one of Satan's tricks.

FYI....not impressed.

 

[epostle1]

Phl 1:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

Heb 6:16-20 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. 17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: 19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

And to be a part of the Body of Christ one must believe and confess, Rom 10:9

No, the seal is the result of BELIEF and CONFESSION. It has nothing to do with laying on hands.

Rom 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I would agree there is much confusion, but God is of peace not confusion. Non-Osas mixes grace with works, sanctification with works. Fails every time. God bless.

That "works" heresy has been refuted 1000 times, but you can't stop pounding that stupid drum.

When, exactly does the "until the redemption of those who are God's possession" occur? Does "until the redemption" mean instantly? Since when does redemption equal salvation? I see you ran from the question.

"you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit," refers to the Sacrament of Confirmation, and the word "confirmation" has more that one application. Well, you sure proved me wrong; you found the word "confirmation" in the Bible. Good for you. Too bad the way you cherry pick a word has nothing to do with the laying on of hands, which you deny.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 The two went down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit 16 (for as yet the Spirit had not come upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (that you stubbornly deny)
BELIEF AND CONFESSION COMES FIRST, NOT LAST.

Acts 19:5-65 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (STEP 1) 6 When Paul had laid his hands on them, (THAT YOU STUBBORNLY DENY) the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied—(STEP 2)

Eph. 4:30 In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, (STEP 1)
the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, (STEP 2)
were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit; (STEP 3)

You have lost all sense of order.

 

[Taken]

Apak ~ Heb 13:8

Arguing with a Catholic is a proposition for a tangled web.

Talk about Salvation....they have to wait and see, by and through their "works" they accomplish thru the ending of their natural life; which they have renamed "cooperation".
Which they can receive, and then Lose!

Talk about calling on the Lord to become Converted and born again a new Creature.....someone else does that for them, without their knowledge.

Talk about becoming forgiven of ones sins....It's temporary. The Indwelling Power of God is secondary to their own power to reject Him After he has converted them.

Talk about true and correct knowledge of the Lords Word......that is reserved for ONLY the Born Again....(apparently ONLY born again men can read Scripture).

Talk about unconverted men being separated from God.....they talk about Love.

They have religious richness and their own "holy father", yet are bankrupted in Spiritual Understanding..

They reveal eye opening knowledge about what their church teaches.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I read another wordy diatribe. What I DON'T see here is an explanation or Scriptural proof for your FALSE claim that born again believers are "no longer" sinners.
This is an anti-Biblical claim - all of your personal attacks, notwithstanding . . .

You can be given umpteen Scriptures, as you have been.

But you have not displayed you are understanding of the very basics of common knowledge.

Every Natural born man from a Humans SEED, is born a SINNER. He is a SINNER, AT birth, before he has COMMITTED ANY SINS.

A CONVERTED MAN, IS Born From Gods SEED.

You do not comprehend the difference between what a man "WAS" men "WERE", and what a NEW CREATURE IS.

A NEW creature "IS";
Forgiven his sins.
Cleansed of all unrighteousness.
Sanctified WITH Christ Himself.
His Soul Restored.
His spirit Quickened OF GODS SEED.
The Holy Spirit dwells with him Forever.

And YOU teach such a man can UNDO all of that by his own Power. Pfft..nonsense.

And YOU ASK for someone to give you an elementary one-liner to Prove all of that to you.

No one must satisfy your demands of HOW you want it told to you.

Go read and study and Learn the Knowledge provided you IN Scripture, instead of calling everyone Wrong for what you fail to understand.

Not rocket science....
OLD ---IS the natural creature of what WAS.
NEW --IS the spiritual creature of what IS.

THE OLD --- CAN and DO SIN.
THE NEW --- CAN NOT SIN. 1 John 3:9

Newsflash....God does not BIRTH "SINNERS" via His SEED...

 

[BreadOfLife]

What an utterly False statement.
I have said no such thing.

Making up false claims for other people simply shows your own claims are weak,
Yes I see your credit yourself saying "through our". I disagree.
I credit the Lord that everything is "Through Him".

2 Pet 1:3
ACCORDING AS his divine power hath given us all thing that pertain unto life and godliness,
THROUGH the KNOWLEDGE OF HIM that he hath called us to glory and virtue:

A man BECOMES born again, WHEN he confesses heartfelt belief and gives his life TO the Lord.
Attempting to make yourself creditable by making false claims for others, is simply you mimicing one of Satan's tricks.
FYI....not impressed.

Why do you continue to reject the Word of God??

2 Pet. 1:3, written under the inspiration of the HOLY SPIRIT - and NOT me says the following:
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through OUR knowledge (epignosis) of HIM who called us by his own glory and goodness.

There, you have Epignosis in a nutshell. It is a FULL and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge that ONLY a born again person can have.
A person who is NOT born again has NOT been given everything he needs to live a godly life. That has been given ONLY to those who have been born again in Christ.

ALL of the following definitions of Epignosis are from PROTESTANT sources:

Strong’s Greek Lexicon
Cognate: 1922 epígnōsis (from 1909 /epí, "on, fitting" which intensifies 1108 /gnṓsis, "knowledge gained through first-hand relationship") – properly, "contact-knowledge" that is appropriate ("apt, fitting") to first-hand, experiential knowing.

Studylight.org (Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable)
The Greek word translated "knowledge" (epignosis) refers to exact, complete, experiential knowledge, not just abstract knowledge of God or even facts about Him.

www.wenstrom.org
3. Epignosis (epignosiv$) (noun), “intimate, personal, experiential knowledge.”

J.B. Lightfoot commenting on epignosis, notes, “The compound epignosis is an advance upon gnosis, denoting a larger and more thorough knowledge...Hence also epignosis is used especially of the knowledge of God and of Christ, as being the perfection of knowledge” (St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians and Philemon, page 138).

Sermonindex.net
Epígnosis refers to exact, complete, thorough, accurate, experiential knowledge, not just abstract, intellectual, head knowledge of God or even facts about Him. Epígnosis ALWAYS describes moral and religious knowledge in the NT and especially refers to full and comprehensive knowledge of God’s will that rests on the knowledge of God and of Christ found today in His Word.

You see, my prides-filled friend - this definition is NOT coming from little ol' ME.
It comes from the scholars. Sooooo, deny all you want - but you've LOST this part of the debate.

With that being said - if Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 state that a person with EPIGNOSIS of Christ (i.e., born again) can LOSE their security - why do you still cling to the false, man-made doctrine of OSAS??

 

[Taken]

We will always be sinners until we are fully sanctified in Heaven.

FULLY sanctified?
Scripture says "ARE Sanctified"...
1 Cor 6:11

So you do not believe Scripture?
Once of those who has to wait and See?

A "sinner" is one who sins

A FORGIVEN SINNER, is one WHO SINS NO MORE.

A Forgiven SINNER, is one WHO has received a Conversion from what he WAS, to what he IS.

Apparently you are UNKNOWING that Sin IS Darkness. God IS Light. A Converted man HAS Gods Holy Spirit WiTHIN him, WHICH IS LIGHT.. Such a converted mans SINS of darkness ARE OVERPOWERED by Gods LIGHT, Covered, remembered now more.

But then according to YOU, Gods INDWELLING Holy Spirit is apparently NOT SUFFICIENT LIGHT And a man WITH Gods LIGHT within them, CAN CONTINUE TO SIN.

Astounding!

Scripture says greater is he that is IN you than he that is in the World....sort of muffles your rejection of Converted men can not sin as 1 John 3:9 says, and you reject.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can be given umpteen Scriptures, as you have been.
But you have not displayed you are understanding of the very basics of common knowledge.
Every Natural born man from a Humans SEED, is born a SINNER. He is a SINNER, AT birth, before he has COMMITTED ANY SINS.
A CONVERTED MAN, IS Born From Gods SEED.
You do not comprehend the difference between what a man "WAS" men "WERE", and what a NEW CREATURE IS.

A NEW creature "IS";
Forgiven his sins.
Cleansed of all unrighteousness.
Sanctified WITH Christ Himself.
His Soul Restored.
His spirit Quickened OF GODS SEED.
The Holy Spirit dwells with him Forever.

And YOU teach such a man can UNDO all of that by his own Power. Pfft..nonsense.
And YOU ASK for someone to give you an elementary one-liner to Prove all of that to you.

No one must satisfy your demands of HOW you want it told to you.

Go read and study and Learn the Knowledge provided you IN Scripture, instead of calling everyone Wrong for what you fail to understand.

Not rocket science....
OLD ---IS the natural creature of what WAS.
NEW --IS the spiritual creature of what IS.

THE OLD --- CAN and DO SIN.
THE NEW --- CAN NOT SIN. 1 John 3:9

Newsflash....God does not BIRTH "SINNERS" via His SEED...

We are forgiven of the sins we confess and repent of. We are NOT forgiven of any future sin UNTIL we confess and repent of it. That's where YOU and some others here get lost.

You actually believe that it's a free ride all the way until you die.
The Bible disagrees with you, pal . . .
(Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[Taken]

Why do you continue to reject the Word of God??

Why do you Continue to make this absurd false claim?

Knowledge, Know, Knowing, Acknowledge is in Scripture over 2,000 times.

Not particularly a big secret Knowledge comes from God and stressed for ALL men to learn His knowledge.

Why you continue to babble on about knowledge when the OP is about rebirth of a NEW Creature, is deflective.

 

[Taken]

We are forgiven of the sins we confess and repent of. We are NOT forgiven of any future sin UNTIL we confess and repent of it. That's where YOU and some others here get lost.

What are these FUTURE SINS you commit?
What are the Consequences for your future sins?

You actually believe that it's a free ride all the way until you die.

Now WHEN exactly did I make such an IGNORANT CLAIM?

Oh Right I didn't.

The Bible disagrees with you, pal . .

Actually YOU have made a FALSE CLAIM and attempted to vomit it on me....Pretty sure the Bible calls that LYING and Being A false accuser and works of the devil.

That is something you do often and simply gives wonderment as to WHOM you follow.

 

[Taken]

OP ~

Forgiveness ~ to a man is for his rejecting and disbelief in the Wholeness of God.

Crucifixion ~ is a killing, passing away of the OLD body (fulfilling the one death required of God, before a man can become born again) that rejected and disbelieved in God.

Natural life ~ continues "IN" Christ's risen and alive body and kept by His Spirit.

The Old body ~ is Washed, Cleansed in Christ's Blood, is Sanctified by His power and Authority, and is Justified to be risen in a glorious body, which will transpire when He comes to resurrect and claim His Church.

Salvation ~ saving of a mans soul IS part of a mans Conversion.

A new Heart - is given a man As part of his Conversion. A pure heart, sufficient for Gods Spirit to indwell and Write His Word and Teach the man His Understanding of His Knowledge and Word.

A new spirit of man ~ is given a man, via Gods SEED being planted in the mans heart.
His perfect Seed, planted in a new pure heart, growing with Gods Power for the man to TRAVEL the Lords Straight and Narrow Path and serve Him, according to HIS Truths and Precepts.

What the Lord has Accomplished IN a man, by His Power and Authority and the mans Election to believe and become Converted...
No man can UNDO.

Such a conversion, IS the Lord making a man WHOLE (body, soul & spriit) and IS SO Highly Prized for a man to obtain.........and So highly regarded BY God...
That such a Converted man IS Accepted BY God AS:
A son of God.

Churches that teach....Men that teach....what the Lord HAS ACCOMPLISHED IN a man can be thwarted, undone, lost, repealed, reneged,
IS FALSE Teaching, and expressly taught in Scripture to BEWARE of such FALSE teachings.

What nonsense to teach, 'a' son of God, can EVER SIN AGAINST GOD....

By such ludicrist teaching....do they FORGET Jesus is "a" Son of God?

Good Topic. Thanks APAK.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Heb 13:8]

He was chastising the Pharisees for their perversion of religion because it wasn't pure.

Not only that, they didn't believe Jesus was God.

Mark 2:6-7 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

First of all, if you are "hidden" - then you're NOT doing your job as a follower of Christ.

Yes I am. I am preaching the finished work of the cross. It's not my issue whether you believe it's finished or not. Many will not accept His free gift.

Finally - 1 John 5:9-14 says NOTHING about OSAS. That's a perversion of MAN - not God.
It simply says that IF we have the Son, we have life. It DOESN'T say that you cannot go into apostasy and later reject the Son.

What are you kidding, that passage is swimming in OSAS. The term apostasy in scripture is for those who have never come to faith in Christ, those who profess with their lips but do not believe in their hearts.