Reconciling Of the world...

[GRACE ambassador]

"1) “To wit, That God Was In Christ, Reconciling the world
Unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and Hath Committed unto us The Word Of Reconciliation”
(II Cor. 5:19).

2) “Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as Though
God Did Beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s
Stead, Be ye Reconciled To God” (II Cor. 5:20)

3) “For if the casting away of them [Israel] be The
Reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving
of them be, but life from the dead?” (Rom. 11:15)​

What Was Paul Thinking?​

So what did Paul mean when he said that the world was reconciled to God at the
Cross? Well, how do we interpret the Bible? Isn’t it by “comparing spiritual things
with spiritual” (I Cor. 2:13), that is, by comparing Scripture with Scripture? If only
there were another verse where the Bible uses that exact phrase, “the reconciling
of the world”—and there is! Speaking of the nation of Israel, Paul wrote [3 above]...

...Here, obviously, Paul cannot be speaking of the reconciliation of individuals
in the world to God, for it would make no sense to say that the casting away
of Israel reconciled anyone to Him individually.

Thus we know that the reconciliation of individuals is not involved in “the
reconciling of the world” here, and this means that it cannot be involved in
“the reconciling of the world” in our text either, as we compare Scripture
with Scripture, the only reliable way to interpret the Bible.

What then did Paul have in mind when he wrote about the reconciling of the
world in these passages [1 and 3 above]? Well, since the “casting away” of
Romans_11:15 has to do with the casting away of a nation, it is clear that
both passages [1 and 3 above] have to do with nations and not with individuals.

(Plenty of questions): What in the world is Being Reconciled?...What is
Being Taught?...What The Bible Says...What Sends men To Hell?...What's The
Question?...What Else Would we have to give UNbelievers?...What Could
Possibly Go Wrong?...

...If you would like to be involved in preserving the spiritual integrity of the
Message Of Grace for your children and your children’s children, as well as
for the generations to which they will minister should The LORD tarry, we
invite you to stand with us, and in so doing be as “set for the defence of
The Gospel” as was the Apostle Paul (Phil. 1:17). To Be Continued...
"
(R Kurth):

The Reconciling Of the world (Part I)
--------------------------------
"...Your Account With God...Balancing your Account...What's Needed To
Balance your Account...What Is Being Taught?...The Debt of sinful works...
...Cooking the books...Someone Has To Pay...
...What It All Means And What It Means to you...
"
(R Kurth):
Not Imputing their trespasses Unto them (Part II)

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Davy]

"1) “To wit, That God Was In Christ, Reconciling the world
Unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and Hath Committed unto us The Word Of Reconciliation”
(II Cor. 5:19).

2) “Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as Though
God Did Beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s
Stead, Be ye Reconciled To God” (II Cor. 5:20)

3) “For if the casting away of them [Israel] be The
Reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving
of them be, but life from the dead?” (Rom. 11:15)​

What Was Paul Thinking?​

So what did Paul mean when he said that the world was reconciled to God at the
Cross? Well, how do we interpret the Bible? Isn’t it by “comparing spiritual things
with spiritual” (I Cor. 2:13), that is, by comparing Scripture with Scripture? If only
there were another verse where the Bible uses that exact phrase, “the reconciling
of the world”—and there is! Speaking of the nation of Israel, Paul wrote [3 above]...

...Here, obviously, Paul cannot be speaking of the reconciliation of individuals
in the world to God, for it would make no sense to say that the casting away
of Israel reconciled anyone to Him individually.
....

You are barking up the wrong tree, as the saying goes.

Paul IS... speaking of 'individual' reconciliation, and that through Christ Jesus according to EACH PERSON's FAITH. That is actually what the 2 Corinthians 5:19 verse means!

2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
KJV

Just because the English uses that word "world" there does not mean everyone in the whole dad-gum world will be saved! Only those who BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST will be saved.

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

You need to recognize when English at times uses a formal way of speaking, like, "you don't bake the bread until you mix all the ingredients". That is using a formal "you", not meant to point to a specific person, but to people in general. Similar idea with the above 2 Cor.5:19 use of "world". That is put for all 'believers' on Christ in a general sense, not to everyone in the world in the absolute sense.

 

[Johann]

What the Bible says about Appointed to Salvation
(From Forerunner Commentary)

1 Corinthians 9:19-22



Paul mentions five times here that he is trying to “win” different people, and in verse 22, he writes that he is trying to “save some.” This passage is commonly interpreted that Paul would present himself differently in various circumstances to win people for Christ; he became all things to all men in order to “save” at least some of them. This interpretation fits the general evangelical belief that Christians should do whatever is necessary to “win souls for Christ” and to get all manner of people “saved” before they die.

However, if that is what this passage means, then holy Scripture is broken (see John 10:35)! Such a reading contradicts numerous other clear biblical statements. For example, in John 6:44, Jesus says, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.” A little later in John 6:65, He reiterates this: “. . . no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” Without the Father providing an individual an approach to Christ, he cannot come to Him for salvation. The Father must intervene first—human intervention makes no difference.

Acts 13 contains the story of Paul and Barnabas preaching to Gentiles in Antioch. Luke writes in verse 48: “Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” Even though the apostles preached to many, only certain people believed what they heard because only they had been appointed to eternal life.

John 17:3 provides a basic definition of the eternal life to which some were appointed: “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” Eternal life, then, is not merely endless living, but is the quality of life that comes from having relationships with the Father and the Son—and only the Father determines who will have such relationships during this age. Those who are not appointed to eternal life now will have their opportunity in the second resurrection.

This parallels Paul's statement in Ephesians 2:8 that grace and saving faith are both gifts from God. He is not beholden to give the faith that saves—that is why it comes as a gift only to some. In fact, in II Thessalonians 3:2, the apostle says that “not all [people] have faith.” An interlinear Bible will show that the Greek contains a definite article—“the”—before “faith”: “not all have the faith.” There is a specific faith, but only those to whom God gives it have it.

Jesus declares, “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21). Claiming Jesus as our Lord has no effect if He does not know us (verse 23), and as John 6:44 shows, the Father determines whether a person can even approach Jesus Christ.

In Acts 2:38, Peter speaks about receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Then he says, “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call” (verse 39). But without that calling, the promise does not apply. Many verses mention God's specific foreknowledge, calling, and election of some and not others (Acts 13:2; 22:14; Romans 1:6-7; 8:28-30; 9:11; 11:2; 16:13; I Corinthians 1:9; 1:24-28; Galatians 1:6; 5:8; Ephesians 1:4; 4:1; Colossians 3:15; I Thessalonians 1:4; 2:12; 4:7; 5:24; II Thessalonians 1:11; 2:13-14; I Timothy 6:12; II Timothy 1:9; Hebrews 3:1; 9:15; I Peter 1:2; 2:9; 5:10; II Peter 1:10; Jude 1; Revelation 17:14). Clearly, God has specifically determined who will come into a relationship with Him during this age—and it is not everyone! The rest will have this opportunity in the resurrection.

If the scriptures are to remain unbroken, either all of these examples of God limiting salvation right now are wrong, or the common interpretation of I Corinthians 9:19-22 misses the mark!



David C. Grabbe
Can We Win People For Christ?

 

[Robert Gwin]

"1) “To wit, That God Was In Christ, Reconciling the world
Unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and Hath Committed unto us The Word Of Reconciliation”
(II Cor. 5:19).

2) “Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as Though
God Did Beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s
Stead, Be ye Reconciled To God” (II Cor. 5:20)

3) “For if the casting away of them [Israel] be The
Reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving
of them be, but life from the dead?” (Rom. 11:15)​

What Was Paul Thinking?​

So what did Paul mean when he said that the world was reconciled to God at the
Cross? Well, how do we interpret the Bible? Isn’t it by “comparing spiritual things
with spiritual” (I Cor. 2:13), that is, by comparing Scripture with Scripture? If only
there were another verse where the Bible uses that exact phrase, “the reconciling
of the world”—and there is! Speaking of the nation of Israel, Paul wrote [3 above]...

...Here, obviously, Paul cannot be speaking of the reconciliation of individuals
in the world to God, for it would make no sense to say that the casting away
of Israel reconciled anyone to Him individually.

Thus we know that the reconciliation of individuals is not involved in “the
reconciling of the world” here, and this means that it cannot be involved in
“the reconciling of the world” in our text either, as we compare Scripture
with Scripture, the only reliable way to interpret the Bible.

What then did Paul have in mind when he wrote about the reconciling of the
world in these passages [1 and 3 above]? Well, since the “casting away” of
Romans_11:15 has to do with the casting away of a nation, it is clear that
both passages [1 and 3 above] have to do with nations and not with individuals.

(Plenty of questions): What in the world is Being Reconciled?...What is
Being Taught?...What The Bible Says...What Sends men To Hell?...What's The
Question?...What Else Would we have to give UNbelievers?...What Could
Possibly Go Wrong?...

...If you would like to be involved in preserving the spiritual integrity of the
Message Of Grace for your children and your children’s children, as well as
for the generations to which they will minister should The LORD tarry, we
invite you to stand with us, and in so doing be as “set for the defence of
The Gospel” as was the Apostle Paul (Phil. 1:17). To Be Continued...
"
(R Kurth):

The Reconciling Of the world (Part I)
--------------------------------
"...Your Account With God...Balancing your Account...What's Needed To
Balance your Account...What Is Being Taught?...The Debt of sinful works...
...Cooking the books...Someone Has To Pay...
...What It All Means And What It Means to you...
"
(R Kurth):
Not Imputing their trespasses Unto them (Part II)

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified!

GRACE And Peace...

The reconciliation with God is still quite a ways off Grace, but every day draws us closer to it. At this time we can make a difference though, by our being obedient to the law of the Christ. Could you imagine what the world would be like if even 25% of the world did it?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

“To wit, That God Was In Christ, Reconciling the world
Unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and Hath Committed unto us The Word Of Reconciliation”
(II Cor. 5:19).

And, here is another Excellent Article on this Important Doctrine:

The Anatomy of God's Plan of Salvation!



Precious friend(s):
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[MatthewG]

The chasm has now been restored!

Praise God through Jesus who reconciled all people… Jesus paid for sin…

People believe they need to believe in Jesus to have their sins to have forgiveness. Thing is, Jesus forgave (father forgive them for they know not what they do) us on the cross, and paid for our own sinful life, we go with him, in the grave and raised to new life.

Those who don’t, they die, however the sin for their unbelief was paid for… though they didn’t desire to seek God or Christ, they are going to be resurrected and they have a place to stay!

It is not hell they are going to be staying, they will be outside the kingdom of God… much better… than saying Jesus didn’t pay for their sins because they didn’t believe, but because of their rejection they will get what they desired, and not be part of the kingdom of heaven due to the choice they had made freely.

There are only two places people end up in my best estimation, those who didn’t accept the forgiveness: outside the kingdom of heaven.

Those who accepted, and followed Christ in faith until death, they will be able to go into the kingdom of heaven because of faith on the Son of God and making the choice to Love God and Love Others and be rewarded for doing so, and that comes with a life of suffering for Christ and deny ourselves to do our own will and serving and abiding in Christ to do the Will of God.

Such as being humble, humility, being like a child, accepting persecution if it happens, turning the other cheek, forgiving others, praying and having active relationship with God, all by abiding in Christ who gives the strength to do those actions as we can not do it ourselves.

 

[RedFan]

Jesus paid for sin….

Paid WHO?

Some answer "Satan." This “ransom” theory, see Matt 20:28, Mark 10:45, suggests that by sinning mankind became Satan’s captives, and Jesus gave himself as a ransom to redeem mankind from Satan’s dominion, resulting in what Rom. 6:16 characterizes as a change of masters. Origen, Augustine and Gregory of Nyssa all championed this theory.

Some answer "God Himself." This “restitutional” or “penal substitution” theory, championed by Anselm and refined by Calvin, holds that Jesus paid the penalty for mankind’s sin―a death penalty which had been imposed by God since the Fall of Adam and Eve (Gen. 2:17)―and thereby satisfied the legitimate demands of God’s justice.

 

[MatthewG]

Paid WHO?

Some answer "Satan." This “ransom” theory, see Matt 20:28, Mark 10:45, suggests that by sinning mankind became Satan’s captives, and Jesus gave himself as a ransom to redeem mankind from Satan’s dominion, resulting in what Rom. 6:16 characterizes as a change of masters. Origen, Augustine and Gregory of Nyssa all championed this theory.

Some answer "God Himself." This “restitutional” or “penal substitution” theory, championed by Anselm and refined by Calvin, holds that Jesus paid the penalty for mankind’s sin―a death penalty which had been imposed by God since the Fall of Adam and Eve (Gen. 2:17)―and thereby satisfied the legitimate demands of God’s justice.

Good morning Redfan,

What is the point you are trying to make?

Some believe that God placed his wrath on his Son, I don’t agree with that. I’m not opposed to what the scripture says about it pleases Yahweh to crush his son, somewhere in Isa.

I suppose to take the blood offering was the pleasing part as what kind of Father would love to put out his wrath on Him.

Satan, was crushed at the cross, and he was losing quickly in the revelation in which he was done away with.

Therefore because of these things Redfan, I don’t contribute much to the Devil being active anymore in this world, however I do believe we wrestle with the dark spiritual powers that reside in the world such as in essence the following just like school spirit. There is the spirit of greed, spirit of hate, spirit of lust and onward.

John 3:16-23, not to give credit solely to the spiritual factors we make a choice to love the light or love the darkness.

 

[RedFan]

Good morning Redfan,

What is the point you are trying to make?

I'm not trying to make a point, I'm trying to understand. I have a concept of justice in my head, and the idea that a just God would ever punish A for B’s sin―whether or not A volunteered for the substitution―is a troubling one. A bloodthirsty God just might decide that “someone has to pay!” and accept such an offer. But a just God―at least as we humans reckon justice―would never do so. It is central to our notions of justice that the guilty, not the innocent, are punished. The guilty may be forgiven as an exercise in mercy, but not at the expense of the innocent.

When Moses offered to take the rap for the Golden Calf if God would thereby spare Israel, God turned him down, insisting that the wrongdoers must themselves be punished. Ex. 32:31-35. That comports quite nicely with human notions of justice. But when Christ “died for our sins,” 1 Cor. 15:3, God went the other way, punishing A for B’s offense.

I'm not complaining, mind you! I'm just trying to understand.

 

[MatthewG]

My brother,

The way to look at it from my perspective is Jesus died for your entire life on behalf of love for you, and everyone else in the world.

The choice was freely made on behalf of the nation of Israel, in that day in age who said crucify him. Let his blood be on our hands - this takes care of the wrath part.

The whole Jesus took the wrath is not true, he did take the sins of the world to his grave on behalf of loving God and loving others to reconcile all the world back to the original state lost with Adam.

Redfan thank you for your honesty and letting me know what it is your seeking, I need to incorporate that in talking to others I’ll be glad to try to help if I can, though many have to seek out answers themselves.

hope this helps brother.

 

[MatthewG]

Bump.