Regeneration before or after saving faith

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SovereignGrace

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Anthony, I am asking you questions in an effort to try to understand what you believe to better understand and love you, just akin to how I would strive understand & love a Hindu or a Zoroastrian or a Catholic or Methodist etc.

If you would like to educate me more on what you believe, I would greatly appreciate that. My first area of confusion is how you attribute culpability in the absence of sovereignty.
You’ve done this to me for a while now, and haven’t changed one bit. That’s fine as it’s not my job to convince you, that is up to God. But after @Anthony D'Arienzo answers you, you will reject his posts and ask him to explain himself again. In my opinion, you don’t want to change your beliefs, but disparage us.
 

Preacher4Truth

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You’ve done this to me for a while now, and haven’t changed one bit. That’s fine as it’s not my job to convince you, that is up to God. But after @Anthony D'Arienzo answers you, you will reject his posts and ask him to explain himself again. In my opinion, you don’t want to change your beliefs, but disparage us.
That is exactly what is happening. "Hey, you, answer me again, over and over and over so I can brush off truth each time and trivialize it. Give me some more posts to do this with. While you're doing that I'll be endorsing, encouraging and embracing the false gospels of others on here at the same time. Don't worry, I'll get to your answer soon to mitigate it, then ask *you* to answer me again."
 
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Jane_Doe22

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You’ve done this to me for a while now, and haven’t changed one bit. That’s fine as it’s not my job to convince you, that is up to God. But after @Anthony D'Arienzo answers you, you will reject his posts and ask him to explain himself again. In my opinion, you don’t want to change your beliefs, but disparage us.
I'm not here to change anyone's beliefs, including my own.

I'm just trying to better understand others-- just like I would ask a Hindu to explain their views to me (or Methodist or Messianic Jew etc). I keep asking because honestly I haven't found any answer that actually seem to be addressing my concerns. I acknowledge that you SovereignGrace, have tired, and I have thanked you for it, and do so again.

However, if my quest to understand and better love is causing you frustration or any negative emotion, then that's not my desired intent and I can stop trying to understand.
 

Preacher4Truth

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You’ve done this to me for a while now, and haven’t changed one bit. That’s fine as it’s not my job to convince you, that is up to God. But after @Anthony D'Arienzo answers you, you will reject his posts and ask him to explain himself again. In my opinion, you don’t want to change your beliefs, but disparage us.
Disparage is a perfect word choice and description of what she does, she wants answers so she can "regard them as of little worth." It is exactly what she is doing, against the Gospel. Kudos bro.
 
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SovereignGrace

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I'm not here to change anyone's beliefs, including my own.

I'm just trying to better understand others-- just like I would ask a Hindu to explain their views to me (or Methodist or Messianic Jew etc). I keep asking because honestly I haven't found any answer that actually seem to be addressing my concerns. I acknowledge that you SovereignGrace, have tired, and I have thanked you for it, and do so again.

However, if my quest to understand and better love is causing you frustration or any negative emotion, then that's not my desired intent and I can stop trying to understand.
And @Anthony D'Arienzo will tell you what I’ve told you, Sissy. You’re acting like the Pharisees in John 9 who asked the guy the Christ healed of his blindness who restored his sight. They asked him three or four times, he gave them the same answer, but kept asking him who healed him.
 

Jane_Doe22

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And @Anthony D'Arienzo will tell you what I’ve told you, Sissy. You’re acting like the Pharisees in John 9 who asked the guy the Christ healed of his blindness who restored his sight. They asked him three or four times, he gave them the same answer, but kept asking him who healed him.
Ok, so then the only way you guys can explain it is a way that to me doesn't seem to actually answer my question.
Ok.
I can acknowledge that, and will stop asking.
Again, thank you for you efforts, I do appreciate you taking the time.
 

Preacher4Truth

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Something is very very sickening about the incessant request for answers, then when answered, the request is repeated, the answer again disparaged, then repeated again.
 
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SovereignGrace

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Something is very very sickening about the incessant request for answers, then when answered, the request is repeated, the answer again disparaged, then repeated again.
We give the answers, she rejects them, then asks for us to give more answers again? Why do I keep chasing my tail? I’m seriously trying to help her and others, but they reject the help offered.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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We give the answers, she rejects them, then asks for us to give more answers again? Why do I keep chasing my tail? I’m seriously trying to help her and others, but they reject the help offered.
For what it's worth, it is equally frustrating for me for the exact same reasons.
It's also not a matter of "rejecting" help, versus the answers provided don't seem to be addressing the questions asked.
 

Preacher4Truth

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For what it's worth, it is equally frustrating for me for the exact same reasons.
It's also not a matter of "rejecting" help, versus the answers provided don't seem to be addressing the questions asked.
The above is completely false. You've been answered multiple times concisely, clearly and each answer has thoroughly addressed your questions.
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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Anthony, I am asking you questions in an effort to try to understand what you believe to better understand and love you, just akin to how I would strive understand & love a Hindu or a Zoroastrian or a Catholic or Methodist etc.

If you would like to educate me more on what you believe, I would greatly appreciate that. My first area of confusion is how you attribute culpability in the absence of sovereignty.
I believe that everyone who is outside of Christ is perishing.
I believe all world religions are ungodly persons seeking to invent idols as described in romans1.God has given them over to a reprobate mind.
What these false religions believe is of no value at all.
I believe anyone who does not get serious about scripture is perishing as we speak. They need the God described in scripture and believed on by biblical Calvinists .
 

Jane_Doe22

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I believe that everyone who is outside of Christ is perishing.
I believe all world religions are ungodly persons seeking to invent idols as described in romans1.God has given them over to a reprobate mind.
What these false religions believe is of no value at all.
I believe anyone who does not get serious about scripture is perishing as we speak. They need the God described in scripture and believed on by biblical Calvinists .
As an Armenenian, I can say "you need to get serious about scripture and choose you this day who you will serve", and have it be simple and straight forward.

But how does that work as a Calvinist? "Hope that God chooses you this day?"
 

Renniks

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One more thing: If that text meant every single person, then it's Universalism, and all will be saved. Nothing in the text is about "if everyone" or "if everyone wills or does thus and so."
Nope, everyone is exactly what it says and means. That's not universalism, because obviously not everyone will choose to receive the light. Jesus said he who seeks will find, he who knocks, the door is opened to. We have to seek more light as we become aware of it. Many will choose to remain in the dark.
 

Renniks

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Um. You've already argued this yourself. It is all over this thread.
No, salvation is accomplished only by God. Don't be ridiculous. No one saves themselves. If you had been paying attention to what I have said many times.. instead of just skimming, there are conditions we must meet before God does the saving work. This is clear from literally hundreds of verses.
 

Renniks

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No He does not, pal! He has no right to do with us as He chooses! It’s not we are the clay and He is the Potter! It’s not like we hate Him as we love Him, even when we were lost! You’re just posting scripture with proper exegesis and a consistent hermeneutic. You REALLY need to stop doing this, pal!
Yeah, you tell him. He shouldn't call himself preacher for truth if he can't tell the truth.
 

Renniks

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@Renniks claims he is saved BECAUSE he prepared his heart, so God saved him, and that he decided, so God saved him, and that he did this by his will, so God saved him. And now? He's claiming no one has argued these things.

Um. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you should actually read what I write instead of spouting nonsense.
 

Renniks

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Exactly. Grace means unmerited favor. They claim they merited grace because God saw they'd choose him. That is totally merit, and is not grace at all.
Yes Grace is unmerited favor... Believing does not merit salvation, but it is a condition God has set. That's his prerogative.
 

Renniks

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As an Armenenian, I can say "you need to get serious about scripture and choose you this day who you will serve", and have it be simple and straight forward.

But how does that work as a Calvinist? "Hope that God chooses you this day?"
You'll find their Calvinism goes out the window when it comes to evangelizing. It's only after people have been Christian's for a while that they dump that load of manure on them.
 

Jane_Doe22

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You'll find their Calvinism goes out the window when it comes to evangelizing. It's only after people have been Christian's for a while that they dump that load of manure on them.
Let's try to be respectful Renniks, even if there's disagreement with theology.
 

Renniks

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Let's try to be respectful Renniks, even if there's disagreement with theology.
I give respect to those who earn respect. I have not seen that respect for my theology by Calvinists on this thread. I have friends who are calvinist. I respect them, because they aren't into mocking those who disagree with them.
 
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