RELIGION: A Denial that Jesus is Lord

[Robert Pate]

The religious Pharisees could not believe that Jesus was the Lord. In spite of all of the miracles that Jesus did they still could not be believe that Jesus was the Lord God. They said, "Is not this Jospeh's son?" Luke 4:22. There are multitudes of professing Christians that do not believe that Jesus is the Lord.

Jesus said, "You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he (God) you shall die in your sins" John 8:24.

Jesus claims to be the savior of the whole world. Only God can atone for the sins of the whole world, Jesus said, "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved" John 3:17. To deny that Jesus is the savior of the whole world is to deny that Jesus is Lord.

To deny that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil is to deny that Jesus is Lord. The religious deny that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil by trying to defeat sin, death and the devil themselves, through their religious works and beliefs. Multitudes are in the sin fight. Jesus has ALREADY defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits in heaven as, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

The religious are not able to believe that Jesus is the Lord, they are not able to, "Enter into his rest" "For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works (religion) as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10. Christians are resting in the righteousness and in the atonement of Jesus Christ and not in themselves.

The work of salvation has ALREADY been done, "We are complete in him" Colossians 2:10. Stop trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ, "When he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" Hebrews 1:3.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

This should be interesting.
The things I see will bring about the disputes.

1 sinless perfectionism
2 works
3 confessing sin & repenting
4 the rest of God
5 flesh vs Spirit
6 Jesus' deity

Not to be a contrarian but it's gonna be interesting as usual with your topics.

 

[Robert Pate]

This should be interesting.
The things I see will bring about the disputes.

1 sinless perfectionism
2 works
3 confessing sin & repenting
4 the rest of God
5 flesh vs Spirit
6 Jesus' deity

Not to be a contrarian but it's gonna be interesting as usual with your topics.

Religion is a work of the flesh and is under the judgment of God.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Religion is a work of the flesh and is under the judgment of God.

I agree.

2Timothy 3:
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The religious Pharisees could not believe that Jesus was the Lord. In spite of all of the miracles that Jesus did they still could not be believe that Jesus was the Lord God. They said, "Is not this Jospeh's son?" Luke 4:22. There are multitudes of professing Christians that do not believe that Jesus is the Lord.

Jesus said, "You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he (God) you shall die in your sins" John 8:24.

Jesus claims to be the savior of the whole world. Only God can atone for the sins of the whole world, Jesus said, "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved" John 3:17. To deny that Jesus is the savior of the whole world is to deny that Jesus is Lord.

To deny that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil is to deny that Jesus is Lord. The religious deny that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil by trying to defeat sin, death and the devil themselves, through their religious works and beliefs. Multitudes are in the sin fight. Jesus has ALREADY defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits in heaven as, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

The religious are not able to believe that Jesus is the Lord, they are not able to, "Enter into his rest" "For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works (religion) as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10. Christians are resting in the righteousness and in the atonement of Jesus Christ and not in themselves.

The work of salvation has ALREADY been done, "We are complete in him" Colossians 2:10. Stop trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ, "When he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" Hebrews 1:3.

There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. However, Jesus is not yet ruling in his earthly Kingdom. He does, however, sit in heaven as ruler of the universe. He holds out establishing His Kingdom on earth presently because people are given time to repent before they are judged.

The reason "religious people" do not accept proper Christianity is because they cannot relinquish control over their lives to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They want control over their own lives.

This is the battle between God and Satan. God demands, as Creator of all, lordship over all of His creation, maintaining the relationship necessary to provide the proper order. Satan demands competitive rights, to manage his own universe, or realm of control, without reference to the lordship of God. This brings disorder and chaos, as well as untold wickedness.

The Pharisees and the like wish to copy religion and "good deeds," but done in their own strength and as they themselves will. They therefore cannot hear from God, who wishes to be in control, to tell them what needs to be done for things to function properly and in the right spirit. They will never hear God unless they are willing to obey His Word.

 

[Robert Pate]

There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. However, Jesus is not yet ruling in his earthly Kingdom. He does, however, sit in heaven as ruler of the universe. He holds out establishing His Kingdom on earth presently because people are given time to repent before they are judged.

The reason "religious people" do not accept proper Christianity is because they cannot relinquish control over their lives to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They want control over their own lives.

This is the battle between God and Satan. God demands, as Creator of all, lordship over all of His creation, maintaining the relationship necessary to provide the proper order. Satan demands competitive rights, to manage his own universe, or realm of control, without reference to the lordship of God. This brings disorder and chaos, as well as untold wickedness.

The Pharisees and the like wish to copy religion and "good deeds," but done in their own strength and as they themselves will. They therefore cannot hear from God, who wishes to be in control, to tell them what needs to be done for things to function properly and in the right spirit. They will never hear God unless they are willing to obey His Word.

The battle between God and Satan is over. Satan lost. He has already been condemned to the lake of fire. When you remind him of that, he will leave you alone.

Jesus will return to claim that which he has redeemed.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

This is what the word of God says...........


1 Peter 5:6-10
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

James 4:
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh unto God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The battle between God and Satan is over. Satan lost. He has already been condemned to the lake of fire. When you remind him of that, he will leave you alone.

Jesus will return to claim that which he has redeemed.

1 Pet 5.8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Yes, Satan has been defeated. And yes, we can resist his condemnation. But he is not inert--he is active, and he is not bound. That is Amillennialism, which I do not support.

 

[Robert Pate]

1 Pet 5.8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Yes, Satan has been defeated. And yes, we can resist his condemnation. But he is not inert--he is active, and he is not bound. That is Amillennialism, which I do not support.

What does that mean?

 

[Randy Kluth]

What does that mean?

I quoted you a Scripture indicating Satan is still active, as a kind of "lion" who is actively *devouring people* in the spiritual sense. That is, he is destroying their faith.

This is *not* a defeated foe, unless you are just talking about a judgment being legislated and not yet carried out?

 

[Robert Pate]

I quoted you a Scripture indicating Satan is still active, as a kind of "lion" who is actively *devouring people* in the spiritual sense. That is, he is destroying their faith.

This is *not* a defeated foe, unless you are just talking about a judgment being legislated and not yet carried out?

In God's eyes, Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil. Jesus now sits in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Everything will be played out according to God's will. Satan cannot touch God's people unless it is given to him to do so.

 

[Randy Kluth]

In God's eyes, Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil. Jesus now sits in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Everything will be played out according to God's will. Satan cannot touch God's people unless it is given to him to do so.

I agree, but the Scriptures clearly indicate that Satan will be allowed to "defeat" the saints of God for a time, in particular during the reign of the Antichrist, which is 3.5 years. Not only so, but all through Christian history Jesus indicated we would suffer a measure of tribulation and persecution. So our "defeat" is not the loss of the war, but only a matter of suffering casualties on our way to win the war!

 

[Robert Pate]

I agree, but the Scriptures clearly indicate that Satan will be allowed to "defeat" the saints of God for a time, in particular during the reign of the Antichrist, which is 3.5 years. Not only so, but all through Christian history Jesus indicated we would suffer a measure of tribulation and persecution. So our "defeat" is not the loss of the war, but only a matter of suffering casualties on our way to win the war!

The war has already been won and Jesus is Lord, Revelation 19:16. All that we are looking for now is the return of Jesus.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The war has already been won and Jesus is Lord, Revelation 19:16. All that we are looking for now is the return of Jesus.

You don't define the persecution of the Church and the tribulations of this world as "Satanic victory?" What do you do with the following passages?

Dan 7. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

Rev 13.7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

 

[Robert Pate]

You don't define the persecution of the Church and the tribulations of this world as "Satanic victory?" What do you do with the following passages?

Dan 7. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

Rev 13.7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

All that are "In Christ" will suffer persecution. The book of Revelation is a difficult book to understand. I believe that what John saw has already happened. Everything has been accomplished. We are waiting for the return of Jesus. If Satan's end is the lake of fire how can that be a victory?

 

[Randy Kluth]

All that are "In Christ" will suffer persecution. The book of Revelation is a difficult book to understand. I believe that what John saw has already happened. Everything has been accomplished. We are waiting for the return of Jesus. If Satan's end is the lake of fire how can that be a victory?

So, what you're suggesting is that the book of Revelation is not a prophecy at all?

 

[Robert Pate]

So, what you're suggesting is that the book of Revelation is not a prophecy at all?

God is not going to have a tribulation period and then a judgment of the lost. Do you believe that God enjoys torturing people? The tribulation period in Revelation has already happened.

The book of Revelation is directed to the seven churches in Asia, Revelation 1:11. Not all churches. The early church was undergoing sever persecution when John wrote Revelation.

After Jesus removes his church from the earth, he will destroy the earth. I am open to further discussion on this topic.

 

[Randy Kluth]

God is not going to have a tribulation period and then a judgment of the lost. Do you believe that God enjoys torturing people? The tribulation period in Revelation has already happened.

The book of Revelation is directed to the seven churches in Asia, Revelation 1:11. Not all churches. The early church was undergoing sever persecution when John wrote Revelation.

After Jesus removes his church from the earth, he will destroy the earth. I am open to further discussion on this topic.

Okay, so you're not a Futurist? I've certainly never even close to suggested that God "enjoys torturing people." I don't believe He "enjoyed" sending His Son to the cross either. Is that what you think He did?

 

[Robert Pate]

Okay, so you're not a Futurist? I've certainly never even close to suggested that God "enjoys torturing people." I don't believe He "enjoyed" sending His Son to the cross either. Is that what you think He did?

I don't know what your definition of a Futurist is. God sent Jesus to the cross for the salvation of the world, John 3:17. Jesus died on the cross to reconcile us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't know what your definition of a Futurist is. God sent Jesus to the cross for the salvation of the world, John 3:17. Jesus died on the cross to reconcile us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

You'll have to look it up. There are different schools on how to interpret biblical prophecy. Preterists tend to see these prophecies, normally viewed as "yet to be fulfilled," as events that have already transpired. For example, a "Full Preterist" will see prophecies of Christ's coming in glory as something fulfilled in 70 AD. A Partial Preterist will see the prophecy of Antichrist as fulfilled in Nero, or in some other ancient historical figure.