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Repentance Vs. Eternal Security

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Ernest T. Bass, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Poppin

    Poppin New Member

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    Hello Ernest T. Bass.
    I am a Confession Lutheran. We place great emphasis on baptism.
    if you are asking me if a man must be baptized before God will accept him (as I mentioned, in the event he had no opportunity) I will not say that man can not be saved.
    I do believe YES, if a man has the opportunity to repent (pierced to the heart, understanding his hopeless condition before God) and dies without having the chance to follow through with the Gospel commands, God is a Good God, and will save the man.
    My denomination says : "we can not know".
    I personally say, I believe.
    For I know my God is a Good and Merciful God.
    Salvation is of the Lord, and I do not have the right, nor the authority to say what God will or will not decide.
    BUT - I believe my God is a good and Merciful God.
    God looks upon the heart.
    A contrite heart is what he desires.

    You will perhaps not like that answer or be satisified with that answer, but, I believe.
    Salvation is a GIFT.
    love in Christ,
    Poppin
     
  2. Madad21

    Madad21 Boast in Christ

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    well said
     
  3. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

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    The thief is not an example of NT salvation.

    Rom 10:9,10 does not exhaust all salvic verses. How about Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38? There is no mention of grace or the blood of Christ in Rom 10:9,10


    In Acts 15:11 Peter speaking said Jews and Gentiles are saved in like manner. This means everyone saved under Christ's NT gospel will be saved the same way. One will not be saved by faith only while another saved by Calvinistic predestination, another saved by a saying a sinner's prayer, etc. Looking at all the conversions beginning with the Jews in Acts 2, water baptism is the like manner way all were saved for God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves...."baptism doth also now save us"

    We will just have to disagree. Too many times when the issue of water baptism comes up, many try to use hard circumstance cases, as death bed or imminent death situations, to try and CHANGE the bibles teachings to try and get around the necessity of water baptism.

    Here is a hard circumstance case: an atheist is on a plane that is about to crash into the ground. In his last few moments he begins to believe there is a higher power and an after life but dies in the crash never knowing who or what to believe in. He would have come to believe in Christ if only he had the time and chance. So do we give him a pass into heaven also with his unbelief?


    So the issue becomes does God's word determine how one is to be saved or do hard circumstances dictate how one is saved? Give me some time and I can come up with all kinds of hard circumstances and use them to totally change and rewrite the bible. So one who is lost needs no word of God, no faith, no blood of Christ, no remission of sins but just a few hard circumstances to be saved.

    So I recommend every person to reject a 'hard circumstance religion' for it's profitable for nothing and just follow the bible without attempting to change and rewrite it.


    Salvation is a gift but God never made it an unconditional gift for God put the conditions of belief repentance, confession and baptism upon this gift. Man does not have any right to make changes to God's free gift with hard circumstances.
     
  4. Poppin

    Poppin New Member

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    Ernest T. Bass,
    I am not entirely certain you are fully appreciative of the Goodness and more importantly, the Sovereignty of that Good and Merciful God.

    We must be very careful to proclaim what the Bible says, but not declare what God Himself will do. We are not privy to His Own Counsels.

    At least, I will do my best not to. This is a very serious matter.
    God Bless you,
    Poppin.


    2 Samuel 12
    David’s Son Dies

    12 The Lord sent Nathan to David. When he came to David, he said, “There were two men in a city. One was rich, but the other was poor. 2 The rich man had many sheep and cattle. 3 But the poor man had nothing except one little female lamb he had bought. The poor man fed the lamb, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food and drank from his cup and slept in his arms. The lamb was like a daughter to him.
    4 “Then a traveler stopped to visit the rich man. The rich man wanted to feed the traveler, but he didn’t want to take one of his own sheep or cattle. Instead, he took the lamb from the poor man and cooked it for his visitor.”
    5 David became very angry at the rich man. He said to Nathan, “As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this should die! 6 He must pay for the lamb four times for doing such a thing. He had no mercy!”
    7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I appointed you king of Israel and saved you from Saul. 8 I gave you his kingdom and his wives. And I made you king of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you even more. 9 So why did you ignore the Lord’s command? Why did you do what he says is wrong? You killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword of the Ammonites and took his wife to be your wife! 10 Now there will always be people in your family who will die by a sword, because you did not respect me; you took the wife of Uriah the Hittite for yourself!’
    11 “This is what the Lord says: ‘I am bringing trouble to you from your own family. While you watch, I will take your wives from you and give them to someone who is very close to you. He will have sexual relations with your wives, and everyone will know it. 12 You had sexual relations with Bathsheba in secret, but I will do this so all the people of Israel can see it.’”
    13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
    Nathan answered, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You will not die. 14 But what you did caused the Lord’s enemies to lose all respect for him. For this reason the son who was born to you will die.”
    15 Then Nathan went home. And the Lord caused the son of David and Bathsheba, Uriah’s widow, to be very sick. 16 David prayed to God for the baby. David fasted and went into his house and stayed there, lying on the ground all night. 17 The elders of David’s family came to him and tried to pull him up from the ground, but he refused to get up or to eat food with them.
    18 On the seventh day the baby died. David’s servants were afraid to tell him that the baby was dead. They said, “Look, we tried to talk to David while the baby was alive, but he refused to listen to us. If we tell him the baby is dead, he may do something awful.”
    19 When David saw his servants whispering, he knew that the baby was dead. So he asked them, “Is the baby dead?”
    They answered, “Yes, he is dead.”
    20 Then David got up from the floor, washed himself, put lotions on, and changed his clothes. Then he went into the Lord’s house to worship. After that, he went home and asked for something to eat. His servants gave him some food, and he ate.
    21 David’s servants said to him, “Why are you doing this? When the baby was still alive, you fasted and you cried. Now that the baby is dead, you get up and eat food.”
    22 David said, “While the baby was still alive, I fasted, and I cried. I thought, ‘Who knows? Maybe the Lord will feel sorry for me and let the baby live.’ 23 But now that the baby is dead, why should I fast? I can’t bring him back to life. Someday I will go to him, but he cannot come back to me.”

    -----

    edit to add;
    Ernest T. Bass, I apologize for my tone in that message. Please forgive it, I will be more careful.
    No doubt you do know the goodness of God. Please understand my issue was only with the idea that we can say with certainty that someone who has been brought to repentance and trust in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, yet due to circumstances outside their control (despotic dungeon; death; incapacitation of some sort) will not be saved because they had not the opportunity for baptism.
    Deathbed conversions and so on...it is not for me to say, and I can not. I can not know the heart - God can and does.
    These things are known only to Him.

    Luke 18
    12'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.' 13"But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' 14"I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

    Jesus was very careful to use the word dikaioó
    http://biblehub.com/thayers/1344.htm

    Justification is foremost a decision by God Alone who knows the heart and hears the man, and Jesus made it clear it is based on contrition.
     
  5. williemac

    williemac New Member

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    So you agree that the thief was saved? Do you know why? Because he humbled himself, confessed his sin, and asked for mercy. Another example of this is in Luke 18:10-14. But this pattern is repeated by James, who said that God gives grace to the humble. As well, we are told that if we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1John1:9)

    If you don't understand that this is a heart issue, and always has been, then there's nothing more I can say, but to assure you that salvation has not been reduced to a work. But you have made it so, by making water baptism a legalistic work. The fact is, there is more than 1 type of baptism, not the least of which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
    The baptism that saves is not what we do for God, but what God does in us.

    As far as Rom.10, 9:10, I beg to differ from your opinion. The problem with your reply on it is that you do not consider the entire context of the letter to the Romans. It is just on part of a very detailed explanation of the principles involved concerning the new covenant. The main emphasis toward our salvation is in our faith in what was accomplished at Calvary. This is all brought up and included within the context of Rom.10:9,10.

    In fact, Paul told the Ephesians something similar in informing them that we are saved by grace, through faith.

    Salvation comes from God as a gift made possible by the righteousness and the sacrifice of One man, Jesus,(Rom.5) and salvation is given as a result of our humility in receiving it by faith. Water baptism is not the emphasis. Anyone can be baptized without faith in Jesus. Faith is rather the method by which we are saved. Because of it, we are baptized into Christ. This is a spiritual event. The baptism that saves us is the giving of His life and the receiving of it by faith.

    Rom.5:10 states that we were reconciled by His death and saved by His life.
     
  6. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

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    My position still stands.

    Many of those that present the 'hard circumstances' do not believe that baptism is necessary to salvation under ANY circumstance. So they think if they can devise some method to get one saved without being water baptized by using some hard circumstance, then they think they have successfully made water baptism non-essential for EVERYONE. It's nothing but a sheme to undermine the teachings of God's word. Again, if they can make exceptions to water baptism, then I [or anyone else] can make exceptions to having faith. Like I said, I can come up with enough 'hard circumstances' to undermine and change anything the bible says. Justification comes through water baptism where the blood of Christ washes away sins, justification never comes from man-made doctrines or man-made hard circumstances and God, Who does not change, has not and will not change how a man is justified.
     
  7. Poppin

    Poppin New Member

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    Ernest T. Bass,
    I am not one of those who "do not believe that baptism is necessary to salvation under ANY circumstance."
    In fact I agree with you, it is inextricably bound within the Gospel commandments: repent and be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit.
    And I agree the Bible declares baptism is inextricably bound with the remission of sins.
    We agree as well that the Holy Spirit is working throughout all the means of Grace, to lead (agó) us in the way of the Lord..
    http://biblehub.com/thayers/71.htm

    He is working in baptism; He is working repentance through the preaching of the Law & Gospel.; He is working our sanctification.
    He is also God and the Holy Trinity is for us.
    We preach Christ crucified and repentance for the forgiveness of sins; arise and be baptized. And God works, Ernest.

    I merely stand back from dogmatism about what The Lord does according to His Own Counsel (under circumstances a man can not control) - David's baby posted as an example, and we are specifically told the infant died on the 7th day, before he was circumcised, which even does not permit us to say, well - the baby was in Covenant relationship shown by the sign of circumcision.
    I believe children in New Covenant households of faith are likewise precious to Our God. Anything more I can not say.
    Bless you in the Name of Christ Our Lord,
    Poppin.

    ----------

    Ernest, you said:

    "God, Who does not change, has not and will not change how a man is justified."

    But of course we know baptism is a New Covenant ordinance. Commanded - yes.
    Said to be for the remission of sins, yes.
    But man has always been justified by grace through faith.
    This is not an anti-baptism passage, but a justification by grace through faith passage.
    This is not a "faith without works" saves you passage. Just a reminder of what The Spirit will lead (ago) us to "do" in faith.

    The Gospel:

    Romans 4
    Abraham Justified by Faith
    1What then shall we say was gained bya Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes inb him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

    7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
    and whose sins are covered;
    8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

    9Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

    The Promise Realized Through Faith
    13For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

    16That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. 18In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” 19He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah’s womb. 20No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” 23But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, 24but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
     
  8. BornAgain

    BornAgain New Member

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    Baptism is not an option or what what thinks or believes. It is a command and essential for salvation...

    John 3:5-7 (KJV)
    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    It is written in the New Testament... baptism in water is for the remission of sins. Jesus made it so plain in Mark 16:16 that a person would have to have help to misunderstand it.

    Jesus said, “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. When Peter preached the Gospel in Acts 2, and the Jews cried out, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (vs. 37), Peter said, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” In the example of Saul’s conversion, we also find that baptism was essential to his salvation. Ananias told Saul, “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, call­ing on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16). Peter said in 1 Peter 3:21 that “baptism does also now save us.” When a person hears the Word of God, believes that Jesus is the Son of God, repents of past sins, confesses the Lord’s name before men, and is baptized, that person the receives the gift of salvation.

    But in the world in which we live, there are not many who teach that baptism is essential to salvation. In fact, many would view the Scrip­tures that I have just mentioned and then come up with various objections to baptism.

    Why would want to reject the words of Jesus and re-write it to fit their doctrine?
     
  9. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Water baptism is a beautiful thing.... Not required though... Paul did it, but didn' think much of it... He did it, but never required the sympbolism.
     
  10. BornAgain

    BornAgain New Member

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    How can you deny what the bible teaches and of Paul's conversion which is written?
    Acts 22:16 (KJV)
    16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
     
  11. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

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    But you already said "Though I will not (dare not) make the claim that one who has truly believed and been pierced to the heart, but not had any opportunity to be baptized due to death or other circumstances is not, or could not be saved."


    If water baptism is not necesary for some then it is not necessary for any. This is the implicaton of your statement. Because you do not like 'dogmatism' does not give you the right to change the bible, as you are trying to do with the statement you made.

    David's infant son will be saved for all infants are born innocent and neutral and God will save that infant. I do not see how this ties in with trying to change the bible with hard circumstances.

    You post verses speaking of Abraham being justified by faith. We under the NT are justified by faith, Rom 5:1. We know the Ephesians were justified/saved by faith, Eph 2:8.


    Eph 2:8------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves/justifies
    1Pet3:9-----------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves/justifies

    Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, the a NT faith that saves must include baptism and no hard circumstance can change this..
    Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Rom 6:3-7; Col 2:11-14 plus other verses show the necessity of baptism also. People sometimes see only what they want to see.
     
  12. Poppin

    Poppin New Member

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    Hello Ernest.

    "David's infant son will be saved for all infants are born innocent and neutral and God will save that infant."

    Please back this up conclusively from scripture. No room for any question (=dogmatism).
    And, please ;) refer me to the passages which show the age/cut-off date - innocent infant to sinner. I would need to see why you are able to be dogmatic. We ought to be able to tell parents what is the eternal destiny of their infants, until age _____. Wouldn't you agree?

    Please back up this other dogmatic statement (i.e: God's own words declaring it):

    "no hard circumstance can change this"

    I need to see God saying it, not Ernest T. Bass (as much I like Ernest T. Bass :) )

    [remember: I am a Confessional Lutheran. I'm sure you are aware of the LCMS position on baptism - required]
    God Bless you Ernest T. Bass,
    Poppin.
     
  13. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say he was baptized in water? It doesn't. I believe in baptism, I don't believe it has to be done in literal water. Besides, when I said "paul did it, but didn't require it." I'm right. Please read 1 Corinthians.
     
  14. BornAgain

    BornAgain New Member

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    And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
    Acts 22:16 (NKJV)

    After Saul was presented with that bright light, and after having scales on his eyes so that he could not see, he recognized that he had been doing wrong, so don’t you know that he definitely was saying a “sinner’s prayer”? Yet, Paul still was told, “Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” You will not find the sinner’s prayer in the Bible, and the only time we find someone praying prior to salvation, he still had to do what God said to do to be saved.

    If the Gospel relates to the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus at its very heart and core, then Paul directly ties the Christian’s conversion through baptism to that. Paul said, “Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized in­to His death?” The claim that Paul did not teach baptism as part of the Gospel simply is untrue, because Paul tied the two together in Romans 6:1-4.

    Romans 6:1-4, Paul likened Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection—the heart and core of the Gospel—to our death to sin, our burial in water, and our resurrection from the water to newness of life.

    What should you be baptized in other than water?
     
    Poppin likes this.
  15. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    Poppin is right when she says that someone must be saved first before the works can be done in this includes repentance. Ernest is right when he says that somebody must repent or else they will perish. however the word perish does not indicate a final state. perish in the Greek is the same word we can find in mark where Peter is yelling to Jesus "Lord we are perishing" when Jesus is asleep on the pillow, we also see the same Greek word in Luke in the parable of the lost sheep and the lost son. Remember the lost sheep gets found the lost son was dead but now is alive! God is in the business of restoration, "we like sheep have all gone astray" Jesus is that Good Shepherd who will find and restore all the lost sheep, that is why he came...
    in Psalms 1:6 it says that the ways of the wicked will perish and Psalms 25: 8 it says that God is good and he will teach sinners the way. you see the ways of the wicked will perish when Christ teaches them the righteous way. see the wicked are perishing they are now lost but will not always be lost Christ will find them and teach them the way.
    God is not a respecter of persons what he has done for you and I, He will surely do for all
     
  16. BornAgain

    BornAgain New Member

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    How are you saved if you do not do anything prior to being saved?
     
  17. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    JESUS!
     
  18. Poppin

    Poppin New Member

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    Greetings sister BornAgain, :)

    How?

    Ephesians 2
    By Grace Through Faith
    1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

    Colossians 2
    11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

    Sister, I agree with you that some of our people are being taught error concerning baptism.
    These two passages make it clear. The Spirit will lead us all to obey the Gospel (soon), we pray.
    Amen.
    Bless you
    Poppin
     
  19. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    "in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace" ...
    WOW! How awesome is that?
     
  20. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

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    John said sin is transgression of the law, so when one is conceived what transgression did that newly conceived person commit making him a sinner?


    What I have posted from Rom 7:8,9 speaks of an age of accountability. There is no certain age for people mature at diffeent rates/time. In this context Paul said "For without the law sin was dead" BUt then Paul said "For I was alive without the law once..." These two sataements can only means there was once a time in Pauls' life when sin was dead to him, sin had no power over him for he was "without law". This would have been when Paul was aninfant/child and not accountable t God's law. Yet as Paul matured and learned right from wrong (Ias 7:15,16) then sin came alive in him. So sin was something that came later in his life not at conception.


    In the 23rd Psalm David prophetically said "and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever" When David's infant son died David said "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." If David goes to his son then David and his son's dwelling place will be forever in the house of the Lord.

    ---------------------------


    What verse says man's hard circumstances can change what God said?

    Mal 3:6 "For I am the Lord, I change not..."

    Psa 119:89 "For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven."

    Heb 6:17 "Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:"

    James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning"

    If God changes then how can man depend and trust in what God has said. And would God not be a liar if He changes what He says, that is, change promises He has made to man? God said and promised sins are remitted in water baptism and those that obey in this will be saved, Heb 5:9. God promised to have vengeance upon them that "obey not", 2 Thess 2:8. Can these promises be changed? Can man change God's promises with hard circumstances?

    It would be impossible for one to be saved BEFORE he repents of his sin. No one is saved while they remain in thier sins.

    The order of Acts 2:38 Acts 3:19 put repentance BEFORE remission of sins/forgiveness.

    2 Cor 7:10 "repentance to salvation" One repents in order to be saved not because they already are saved.

    Acts 11:18 "repentance unto life" Again, one repents in order to obtain life (opposite of perish) not because they already have life.


    The word perish as used in Lk 13:3,5; Acts 8:20-22; 2 Pet 3:9 "perish" has to do with spiritual death as opposed to phyical death. Heb 6:6 falliing away is set in contrast to repentance where repenting is the only way to keep them from falling away and be eternally lost.

    But Jesus never said "do nothing and thou shalt be saved"

    Jesus did say "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" and "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
     
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