Repentance Vs. Eternal Security

[FHII]

Sin is sin and they were told to "take heed lest ye fall."

Please read the whole chapter. He was talking about false worship. Grace covers sins of the flesh. Not sins against the Spirit. Matthew 12:31 bears me out on that point.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Please read the whole chapter. He was talking about false worship. Grace covers sins of the flesh. Not sins against the Spirit. Matthew 12:31 bears me out on that point.

Paul uses exampes of lust, fornication, idolatry, tempting Christ and murmurings.

And if eternal security were true then Paul lied to them telling them they could fall.

 

[FHII]

ETB, please read the whole chapter. Also realize that Paul talked of Predestination. I don't want to be in your shoes calling God's annointed -- Paul -- a liar. You should repent.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

ETB, please read the whole chapter. Also realize that Paul talked of Predestination. I don't want to be in your shoes calling God's annointed -- Paul -- a liar. You should repent.

What Paul is doing 1 Cor 10:1-11 is giving examples of those that fell because of their sins, then he warns those Corinthians they too can fall beause of their sins.

If eternal security were true then it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for those Jews or Corinthans to fall and Paul would have been lying.

 

[FHII]

Ignoring what was said again...It was spritual sin.... Hey.... Don't bother to respond. You've said enough.


ETB..... You don't believe much in grace through faith do you?

If you do... Can you complete this sentance without following if up with "But", "However", "Although" or any likeness of those words:

"I believe in grace through faith without works...."

No, you can't... So you don't believe in grace. PERIOD! Thus, you are calling Paul a liar.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Ignoring what was said again...It was spritual sin.... Hey.... Don't bother to respond. You've said enough.


ETB..... You don't believe much in grace through faith do you?

If you do... Can you complete this sentance without following if up with "But", "However", "Although" or any likeness of those words:

"I believe in grace through faith without works...."

No, you can't... So you don't believe in grace. PERIOD! Thus, you are calling Paul a liar.

Your eternal security theology has you ignoring verses 1-11 where Paul shows people can fall from a covenant relationship with God.

"without works" refer to works of merit, not NT obedience.

In Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness.



I serve obedience unto righteousness. Which do you serve?

 

[FHII]

I delight and serve God by the law of the inward man, bub. I see another law warring against me, and that I do not serve God by.... You do. Read Romans 3... It'll describe your law vs the Law of Faith, which I live by.

 

[horsecamp]

i don't see how our election and daily repentance are opposed to each other''

they work together until were safe in heaven.

that the way Luther saw it to.


there are 3 parts of repentance the 3rd being
the most important .


the first is feeling truly sorry for sin
the second never wanting to do it again

and the most important

the 3rd part trusting in THAT FORGIVNESS Jesus has already won for us on the cross

the daming fault in Judas was not the first two parts of repentance
but the third. he never trusted in his only savior from sin he never trusted what Jesus was about to do for him on the cross to..

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I delight and serve God by the law of the inward man, bub. I see another law warring against me, and that I do not serve God by.... You do. Read Romans 3... It'll describe your law vs the Law of Faith, which I live by.

Again, Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness.



I serve obedience unto righteousness. Which do you serve?

i don't see how our election and daily repentance are opposed to each other''

they work together until were safe in heaven.

that the way Luther saw it to.


there are 3 parts of repentance the 3rd being
the most important .


the first is feeling truly sorry for sin
the second never wanting to do it again

and the most important

the 3rd part trusting in that THAT FORGIVNESS Jesus has already won for us on the cross

The issue is can a Christian commit a sin, such as theft in not repaying a loan, and not repent and repay the loan and yet remained saved?

 

[FHII]

Again, Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness.



I serve obedience unto righteousness. Which do you serve?

Again, I live by the Law of the inward man: The Law of faith.

You either serve by:

1. The Law of Moses


or

2. The Law of Faith.

They don't mix. I serve by the Law of Faith. Which do you serve?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Again, I live by the Law of the inward man: The Law of faith.

You either serve by:

1. The Law of Moses


or

2. The Law of Faith.

They don't mix. I serve by the Law of Faith. Which do you serve?

You're avoiding the issue:

Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness.



I serve obedience unto righteousness. Which do you serve?


#1 or #2????

 

[FHII]

Why do you call yourself Earnest T Bass? You should call yourself "Rerun" from Good Times.

Hey Rerun, you are avoiding the issue.

I live by the Law of the inward man: The Law of faith.

You either serve by:

1. The Law of Moses


or

2. The Law of Faith.

They don't mix. I serve by the Law of Faith. Which do you serve?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Why do you call yourself Earnest T Bass? You should call yourself "Rerun" from Good Times.

Hey Rerun, you are avoiding the issue.

I live by the Law of the inward man: The Law of faith.

You either serve by:

1. The Law of Moses


or

2. The Law of Faith.

They don't mix. I serve by the Law of Faith. Which do you serve?

Still avoiding:

Paul says you serve either one of two masters. You serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

You never gave a #1 or #2 but try to create some other option Paul did not give.

Following the man made teaching of faith only really makes answering a simple question tough. I have no trouble answering I serve OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS. Of course you will not answer that you serve sin unto death, but then your theology prevents you answering obedience unto righteousness, so you are left squirming.

 

[Raeneske]

I posted a response, but I have taken the post away for further thought.

 

[horsecamp]

If salvations is in our hands by what we do or do not do than we will never be saved .. because we never measure up AND WE ALWAYS GOOF UP.ESPECIALY ME.


The bible makes it clear our salvation is In Gods perfect almighty hands ..

its very comfortable there .. I love it there..

Ephesians 2:8=9

ETB, please read the whole chapter. Also realize that Paul talked of Predestination. I don't want to be in your shoes calling God's annointed -- Paul -- a liar. You should repent.

its great to snuggle up in Gods almighty hand and leave our salvation all to him.. because we would fail if even one part was up to us..

ETB Fhill is not being mean Fhill is just refusing to look to self for salvation .

 

[Rach1370]

Clearly there is disagreement over this issue. And disagreement, with mature, biblical discussion, can be edifying...for both sides, regardless of "who's backing the right take on scripture".

I'm not seeing a whole lot of mature disagreement, only a lot of "you're wrong, I'm right, therefore you're a liar".

We are Christians. We should be able to hold a discourse without entering into insults, slurs or accusations. If you disagree, say so politely, with your biblical reasons for disagreeing. If you cannot avoid the above behaviour, kindly do not respond at all.

If the behaviour continues, I will have no choice, but to lock the thread, in accordance with Forum rules.

 

[KingJ]

i don't see how our election and daily repentance are opposed to each other''

they work together until were safe in heaven.

that the way Luther saw it to.


there are 3 parts of repentance the 3rd being
the most important .


the first is feeling truly sorry for sin
the second never wanting to do it again

and the most important

the 3rd part trusting in THAT FORGIVNESS Jesus has already won for us on the cross

the daming fault in Judas was not the first two parts of repentance
but the third. he never trusted in his only savior from sin he never trusted what Jesus was about to do for him on the cross to..

I have to disagree my friend.

Judas did repent but it simply was not from Godly sorrow 2 Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. Like Cain and Esau he simply felt sorry for himself. There simply was no depth or true sincerity to the repentance.

 

[FHII]

The problem with asking, "do you serve sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness" is that the verse comes from Romans 6. Right in the middle of a very long explanation of the power of grace through faith alone. You really have to read the whole chapter and in this case Chapters 4-8 at least to get the full impact of what he is saying. In short, Paul is saying that we don't serve sin because we are not under the law. Where there is no law, there is no sin. We are dead to the law and thus dead to sin and CANNOT sin (not, "will not sin"). Paul even uses a working example of that to open up chapter 7 when he says a widow is freed from her former husband to marry again. That is, if she does get married again, she is not and adultress; she's no longer under the law of her former husband.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

If salvations is in our hands by what we do or do not do than we will never be saved .. because we never measure up AND WE ALWAYS GOOF UP.ESPECIALY ME.


The bible makes it clear our salvation is In Gods perfect almighty hands ..

its very comfortable there .. I love it there..

Ephesians 2:8=9



its great to snuggle up in Gods almighty hand and leave our salvation all to him.. because we would fail if even one part was up to us..

ETB Fhill is not being mean Fhill is just refusing to look to self for salvation .

Man does have a role in his own salvation, God does not determine 100% Himself who will be saved or lost. In Acts 2 Peter told his listeners to 'save yourselves', Paul told Timothy to 'save thyself' So man has a role in his own salvation by being obedient to God's will

God promised to save those that obey, Heb 5:9 and have vengeance upon those that obey not 2 Thess 1:8. Since God cannot lie these are two promises we can count on.

The problem with asking, "do you serve sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness" is that the verse comes from Romans 6. Right in the middle of a very long explanation of the power of grace through faith alone. You really have to read the whole chapter and in this case Chapters 4-8 at least to get the full impact of what he is saying. In short, Paul is saying that we don't serve sin because we are not under the law. Where there is no law, there is no sin. We are dead to the law and thus dead to sin and CANNOT sin (not, "will not sin"). Paul even uses a working example of that to open up chapter 7 when he says a widow is freed from her former husband to marry again. That is, if she does get married again, she is not and adultress; she's no longer under the law of her former husband.

There is no faith alone being taught in Rom 6 at all. Paul begins the chapter about the necessity of being baptized then he speaks of the Romans:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Paul tells the Romans one serves either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness

Then note the sequence of events in the Romans' salvation:

1) they went from "servants of sin

2) obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine

3) made free from sin (justified) servants of righteousness.


So the Romans went from serving sin unto death to obedience unto righteousness. Rom 6 is a anti-faith only chapter making verse 16 difficult for the proponents of faith only to answer which they serve 1) sin unto death or 2) obedience unto righteousness.

 

[williemac]

Man does have a role in his own salvation, God does not determine 100% Himself who will be saved or lost. In Acts 2 Peter told his listeners to 'save yourselves', Paul told Timothy to 'save thyself' So man has a role in his own salvation by being obedient to God's will

God promised to save those that obey, Heb 5:9 and have vengeance upon those that obey not 2 Thess 1:8. Since God cannot lie these are two promises we can count on.

There is no faith alone being taught in Rom 6 at all. Paul begins the chapter about the necessity of being baptized then he speaks of the Romans:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Paul tells the Romans one serves either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness

Then note the sequence of events in the Romans' salvation:

1) they went from "servants of sin

2) obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine

3) made free from sin (justified) servants of righteousness.


So the Romans went from serving sin unto death to obedience unto righteousness. Rom 6 is a anti-faith only chapter making verse 16 difficult for the proponents of faith only to answer which they serve 1) sin unto death or 2) obedience unto righteousness.

Only one problem with this summary of Rom. 6. We are told in the previous chapter, 5, that righteousness is a free gift that comes to us by way of the obedience of ONE MAN (vs.19) We are also told there that we inherited by birth that sin which is causing our death (vs.12). In fact, Rom.5 begins with..."Therefore, having been justified by faith we have peace with God". It starts with 'therefore'. In other words, Paul did not write a bunch of letters to the Romans. He wrote one letter. And he in no way would contradict himself in one part with what he said in another.

So, whatever conclusions we come to in Rom.6, they cannot deny the fact that righteousness is a gift that comes to us by faith. So therefore, what obedience do we suppose is required in order to receive righteousness? Works of law? Or maybe the obedience of faith?

Are we going to annul everything Paul told the Romans about faith vs.works? What do we do with Rom.3:28? ..." Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith APART from the deeds of the law".

In ch.6, Paul was merely reasoning with them to behave according to what has been done in them through faith. He was appealing to their logic, that they have been (past tense) set free from sin and have become slaves of righteousness (vs.16). There is no way in heaven or hell that Paul was instructing them to set themselves free from sin by obeying the law.

But if we take your reply in so many words, that is exactly what it is implying, that it is our work to set ourselves free. If that is the case, then we were not really justified by faith, and we do not really have peace with God. By your standards, these would be arriving at a future date by way of our future or continual obedience to law. According to the sequence you are presenting, we are justified by faith so that we can be further justified, or continue to be justified, by obedience to law. I would go and read the letter to the Galatians, if I were you.

Furthermore, in his 1st letter to the Corinthians, Paul spoke of a man who was in sexual sin. In ch.5:5 he spoke of delivering that man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh..." so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".

The fact is, our old man of the flesh is considered to be dead in Christ, crucified with him. The sentence of death has already been pronounced upon the par of us that contains the sin nature of Adam. But our new man, our spirit, is the part of us that contains the righteousness and holiness of God (Eph.4:24).

So whatever death anyone supposes that a Christian will encounter because of sin, they had better think twice if they think it amounts to the loss of justification to life and salvation. As Paul also spoke of our works in 1Cor.3:15..."if anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss. But he himself will be saved, yet as through fire"