Replacement Theology thrown down in 1 verse?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You're banning me from this site until I go to your particular website and read your stuff?
Sure. Whatever. Good luck with that.

What are you talking about? I have not blocked you.

My point is you continue to push your thinking without reading material that disproves you.
 

Naomi25

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
3,199
1,801
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What are you talking about? I have not blocked you.

My point is you continue to push your thinking without reading material that disproves you.
It was more a sarcastic remark that you could not.
And really, you are on THIS forum, okay? If you've written a heap of stuff, good for you. But take the ten seconds to copy and paste it here, hmm?
Better yet, how about you skip that, and give me bible verses like I keep asking for? I am quite happy to discuss the issue with you, but going around the merry-go-round of opinion pieces will not serve either one of us. Exegesis, let's go!
 

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,084
218
63
67
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So...when we come to Rev 20, it is not such a foreign idea that Satan, in this age, is impotent to stop the work of the gospel. He cannot gather the nations together in a concerted effort to wipe the people of God off the face of the Earth. Not yet. But, as Rev 20 says, near the end, he must be "released for a little while".

You must be looking through rose-colored glasses then. No one can look around us and say yep, this is the wonderful, glorious kingdom that we were promised. The idea that Satan is impotent, "in this age", respectfully, is looney tunes! Where do you see that he gather the nations together in a concerted effort to wipe the people of God off the face of the Earth in scripture? Christianity is at its lowest point of acceptance since Rome, evil is gaining ground at an ever quickening pace, how could one think that the devil is presently locked up somewhere with no potential to affect the gospel??!!! It boggles the mind!!! BTW, I'm working on two studies that I will post as new topics that will, in a way, continue the conversation from #54 of this topic and post #198 from the Rapture ready topic.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You must be looking through rose-colored glasses then. No one can look around us and say yep, this is the wonderful, glorious kingdom that we were promised. The idea that Satan is impotent, "in this age", respectfully, is looney tunes! Where do you see that he gather the nations together in a concerted effort to wipe the people of God off the face of the Earth in scripture? Christianity is at its lowest point of acceptance since Rome, evil is gaining ground at an ever quickening pace, how could one think that the devil is presently locked up somewhere with no potential to affect the gospel??!!! It boggles the mind!!! BTW, I'm working on two studies that I will post as new topics that will, in a way, continue the conversation from #54 of this topic and post #198 from the Rapture ready topic.

Satan is winning. One more reason for the Rapture.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
You must be looking through rose-colored glasses then. No one can look around us and say yep, this is the wonderful, glorious kingdom that we were promised. The idea that Satan is impotent, "in this age", respectfully, is looney tunes! Where do you see that he gather the nations together in a concerted effort to wipe the people of God off the face of the Earth in scripture? Christianity is at its lowest point of acceptance since Rome, evil is gaining ground at an ever quickening pace, how could one think that the devil is presently locked up somewhere with no potential to affect the gospel??!!! It boggles the mind!!! BTW, I'm working on two studies that I will post as new topics that will, in a way, continue the conversation from #54 of this topic and post #198 from the Rapture ready topic.
We are in the last half of Revelation 20 where Satan is loosed to deceive the nations once again. The gospel to the nations prevented this as far as the elect are concerned. If you think his binding should consist of more than not being able to deceive the nations, you do not understand Satan's role God assigned to him in the world.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are in the last half of Revelation 20 where Satan is loosed to deceive the nations once again. The gospel to the nations prevented this as far as the elect are concerned. If you think his binding should consist of more than not being able to deceive the nations, you do not understand Satan's role God assigned to him in the world.

That is absurd. I have not seen almost 2/3 of the Earth's population killed in the last almost seven years. I've not seen the oceans turn red. I'm not seeing all the islands destroyed. I've not seen a plague of locusts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trekson
D

Dave L

Guest
That is absurd. I have not seen almost 2/3 of the Earth's population killed in the last almost seven years. I've not seen the oceans turn red. I'm not seeing all the islands destroyed. I've not seen a plague of locusts.
You are taking the symbols of Revelation literally instead of what they represent. Which means you've missed the much of the fulfillment so far and will never see it in the future.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are taking the symbols of Revelation literally instead of what they represent. Which means you've missed the much of the fulfillment so far and will never see it in the future.

Meaning you want to make them mean anything you want.

So much for your claims of using systematic theology. Again you prove you don't.
 

Naomi25

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
3,199
1,801
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You must be looking through rose-colored glasses then. No one can look around us and say yep, this is the wonderful, glorious kingdom that we were promised. The idea that Satan is impotent, "in this age", respectfully, is looney tunes! Where do you see that he gather the nations together in a concerted effort to wipe the people of God off the face of the Earth in scripture? Christianity is at its lowest point of acceptance since Rome, evil is gaining ground at an ever quickening pace, how could one think that the devil is presently locked up somewhere with no potential to affect the gospel??!!! It boggles the mind!!! BTW, I'm working on two studies that I will post as new topics that will, in a way, continue the conversation from #54 of this topic and post #198 from the Rapture ready topic.

Well, where does it say that when Satan is bound it will be an amazing, glorious Kingdom? Where does it say that Satan is completely impotent? Look, here's what Rev 20 actually says about it:

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. -Revelation 20:1–3

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. -Revelation 20:7–10

Where does it say that Satan being bound will lead to a glorious Kingdom? Where does it say that he is completely impotent? All it says about his binding is that it is so "he might not deceive the nations". And that makes sense, right, because he is the Father of lies. But...deceive them in what particular way? "To deceive the nations, to gather them for battle". Battle against whom? God's people.

We know Jesus said that to gather people to himself he "bound the strong man", Satan. That is how the gospel is going forth into the whole world. Satan has, in some sense, as he is the 'ruler of this world', been bound against totally destroying the people of God. Because let's face it: the world hates both Christians and Jews, does it not? And considering this hate, do you often wonder why the world at large has not come together in a concerted effort to wipe us out? Especially if Satan is ruler of this world? Wouldn't that be his top goal? It's so easy for him to deceive the nations on other things; global warming, communism, self love, money, sex, fame. But why, when people sell wholely into that, cannot Satan make them come completely against us? Why must he plant tiny seeds elswhere and wait for that hate to bloom along those lines before it comes at us? Could it be he cannot? And that is why the gospel spreads across the globe unchecked?

So...here's the thing. If you expect the earthly Millennium to be a return to the garden of Eden where perfection reigns and there is no sin and no Satan at all, well sure, this time and place for the Millennium makes no sense. The problem with that, however, is that vision is not seen in Rev 20 at all.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well, where does it say that when Satan is bound it will be an amazing, glorious Kingdom? Where does it say that Satan is completely impotent? Look, here's what Rev 20 actually says about it:

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. -Revelation 20:1–3

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. -Revelation 20:7–10

Where does it say that Satan being bound will lead to a glorious Kingdom? Where does it say that he is completely impotent? All it says about his binding is that it is so "he might not deceive the nations". And that makes sense, right, because he is the Father of lies. But...deceive them in what particular way? "To deceive the nations, to gather them for battle". Battle against whom? God's people.

We know Jesus said that to gather people to himself he "bound the strong man", Satan. That is how the gospel is going forth into the whole world. Satan has, in some sense, as he is the 'ruler of this world', been bound against totally destroying the people of God. Because let's face it: the world hates both Christians and Jews, does it not? And considering this hate, do you often wonder why the world at large has not come together in a concerted effort to wipe us out? Especially if Satan is ruler of this world? Wouldn't that be his top goal? It's so easy for him to deceive the nations on other things; global warming, communism, self love, money, sex, fame. But why, when people sell wholely into that, cannot Satan make them come completely against us? Why must he plant tiny seeds elswhere and wait for that hate to bloom along those lines before it comes at us? Could it be he cannot? And that is why the gospel spreads across the globe unchecked?

So...here's the thing. If you expect the earthly Millennium to be a return to the garden of Eden where perfection reigns and there is no sin and no Satan at all, well sure, this time and place for the Millennium makes no sense. The problem with that, however, is that vision is not seen in Rev 20 at all.

Satan is bound and thrown in the pit at the second coming at the end of the Tribulation Period.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Well, where does it say that when Satan is bound it will be an amazing, glorious Kingdom
What a strange question. When Satan is bound he cannot exert any influence on earth. And his influence is always evil and malign. So even a child could figure out that with Satan bound there will be an amazing glorious Kingdom, free from sin, evil, and malign influences. And while only Satan -- who is the king of all evil spirits and demons -- is mentioned in Revelation 20, we can rest assured that no evil spirits will be allowed on earth during that time.

When people come along and say "Where does it say...?" that is a typical sign of unbelief. Where does it say that there is a Trinity?Where does it say that there is a Rapture? Where does it say there is a literal Kingdom of God on earth? Where does it say that I should believe whatever is implied in Scripture?
 

Naomi25

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
3,199
1,801
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Satan is bound and thrown in the pit at the second coming at the end of the Tribulation Period.
And it says that....? Does it say: "Immediately after the Tribulation of those days I saw Satan bound for a thousand years"?
Once again, you are inserting things into the text to fit a doctrine you presuppose....
 

Naomi25

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
3,199
1,801
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What a strange question. When Satan is bound he cannot exert any influence on earth. And his influence is always evil and malign. So even a child could figure out that with Satan bound there will be an amazing glorious Kingdom, free from sin, evil, and malign influences. And while only Satan -- who is the king of all evil spirits and demons -- is mentioned in Revelation 20, we can rest assured that no evil spirits will be allowed on earth during that time.

When people come along and say "Where does it say...?" that is a typical sign of unbelief. Where does it say that there is a Trinity?Where does it say that there is a Rapture? Where does it say there is a literal Kingdom of God on earth? Where does it say that I should believe whatever is implied in Scripture?

Again...it does NOT say that once Satan is bound he cannot "exert any influence on earth". It only says he will be stopped from "deceiving the nations". It is quite specific. One could say, oddly specific.
The difference between this and the Trinity, is that the doctrine of the Trinity, while not having that word appear, is clear and repeated, over and over again. With Satan being bound, it is mentioned in one chapter. Once. And the only infomation it gives us is that he is bound from deceiving the nations. I have given other verses (binding the strong man, satan falling like lightning) that back this up, whereas you guys just accuse me of being kid-stupid. And...while I suppose I shouldn't be surprised...not giving scriptures to back up your view.
At what point do you realise that calling people daft and stamping your foot and insisting your way is the only way is NOT ENOUGH? You are attempting to make a case from scripture. GIVE scripture!
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And it says that....? Does it say: "Immediately after the Tribulation of those days I saw Satan bound for a thousand years"?
Once again, you are inserting things into the text to fit a doctrine you presuppose....

I am inserting nothing, you are removing text.

Revelation 19 New International Version (NIV)

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”a]">[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Revelation 20 New International Version (NIV)
The Thousand Years
20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

This also proves Satan is not the beast AC.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Again...it does NOT say that once Satan is bound he cannot "exert any influence on earth". It only says he will be stopped from "deceiving the nations". It is quite specific.
Amazing how you can put forth specious arguments. And they generally begin with "It does not say..." But God gave everyone of us brains to put and two together to come up with four.

So what is Satan's primary mode of exerting his malign influence on people? It is deception, is it not? And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev 12:9)

So when the Bible says that he will be stopped from deceiving the nations, that is equivalent to saying that he will be stopped from exerting any and all influence on earth. That is quite specific but just not for you.

Is Satan exerting his influence on earth today? Absolutely.
Will that be totally stopped during the Millennium? Absolutely.
Does this destroy Amillennialism? Absolutely.
 

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,084
218
63
67
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And considering this hate, do you often wonder why the world at large has not come together in a concerted effort to wipe us out? Especially if Satan is ruler of this world? Wouldn't that be his top goal?

Actually scripture answers your questions quite accurately. While Satan is not bound at this time he is being restrained (2 Thes. 2:7) by Michael, Dan. 12:1 and Rev. 12:7-9 in the same manner as Gabriel was in Dan. 10:13. Picture two beings in a wrestling type pose, the devil is striving to get past Michael so he can come to the earth to destroy the children of God and Michael is restraining him. Suddenly God orders Michael to stand up or to cease restraining as it is time for the devil to be allowed a short time to finish God's will concerning the earth. Rev. 12:9, 13-17.
Satan is not the beast but he will possess the beast when he is killed and rises up in three days. This will be when Michael stops restraining. The battle of Rev. 19 is Armageddon and it is well known that that will be the battle that ends the 70th week and introduces the beginning of the millennial era.
The new post I put up in the eschatology forum will answer some of your other questions.
 

Naomi25

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
3,199
1,801
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I am inserting nothing, you are removing text.

Revelation 19 New International Version (NIV)

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”a]">[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Revelation 20 New International Version (NIV)
The Thousand Years
20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

This also proves Satan is not the beast AC.

First, I never said the AC is Satan. Secondly, I'm not sure how you can say I am removing text.
Thirdly, this might hold more weight if you could prove Chapter 20 comes chronologically after Chapter 19.
The problem with holding Revelation is a chronological narrative, is that Jesus seems to return several times:

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” -Revelation 6:12–17

Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” ...Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. -Revelation 11:15,19

The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” And there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as there had never been since man was on the earth, so great was that earthquake. The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath. And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found. And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe. -Revelation 16:17–21

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.” And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. -Revelation 19:11–21

We see several things with these passages: each one undoubtably talks about the finality of God's judgement, his Kingdom coming, his day arriving, of people being face to face with the judge. Everything in scripture tells us that these events are Christ's return. And we can also link the passages with their apocolytic images, earthquakes, hail. Interestingly, just as the 7 seal, trumpet and bowl judements increase in intensity, so too do the description of Christ's return. The description of the earthquake and the hail becomes greater each time, finally we reach Chapter 19, where we are given a full description about Christ's return and judgement on the wicked.
But each passage clearly talks of Christ's return. So...either Christ returns numerous times, or we begin to understand Revelation is not chronological. Which means that assuming that Rev 20 must, therefore, take place after Christ's second advent, is not strictly logical or even biblical. And it seems to me that relying only on chronology to back up a doctrine, is a problem. Because, as I've repeatedly pointed out, Rev 20 does not back up anything else you say. The whole weight of your argument rests on chronology and OT verses that can clearly be seen as referring to the eternal state.
 

Naomi25

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
3,199
1,801
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Amazing how you can put forth specious arguments. And they generally begin with "It does not say..." But God gave everyone of us brains to put and two together to come up with four.

So what is Satan's primary mode of exerting his malign influence on people? It is deception, is it not? And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev 12:9)

So when the Bible says that he will be stopped from deceiving the nations, that is equivalent to saying that he will be stopped from exerting any and all influence on earth. That is quite specific but just not for you.

Is Satan exerting his influence on earth today? Absolutely.
Will that be totally stopped during the Millennium? Absolutely.
Does this destroy Amillennialism? Absolutely.

Wait. Let me get this right. After my repeated attempts to get you to support your own claims with scripture (which I shouldn't have to ask for, by the way), and after showing you outright how things are just not in scriptural text, your big move is to say I'm following in Satan's footsteps by telling people "it does not say.."?

And then, finally, you give a verse...but...it doesn't actually help you. What does it tell us? That Satan is a deceiver, which we know, because in Rev 20, it is that he is bound against. But...what is the context of Rev 12:9? Because, it actually helps my case more than it does yours.

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” -Revelation 12:9–12

Remember when I backed up my interpretation of Rev 20 with the verse:

The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. -Luke 10:17–19

This sounds a little like Rev 12, doesn't it? Christ's ministry, his death and resurrection, bought the Kingdom of heaven to hand. He triumphed over Satan, and as his children, we share in that victory. And Satan is furious. He knows his time is limited. But, per Rev 20, he is bound from decieving the nations, also mentioned by Christ:

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. -Matthew 12:28–29

So, I'm sorry, but your verse does not support your view argument.
 

Naomi25

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
3,199
1,801
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Actually scripture answers your questions quite accurately. While Satan is not bound at this time he is being restrained (2 Thes. 2:7) by Michael, Dan. 12:1 and Rev. 12:7-9 in the same manner as Gabriel was in Dan. 10:13. Picture two beings in a wrestling type pose, the devil is striving to get past Michael so he can come to the earth to destroy the children of God and Michael is restraining him. Suddenly God orders Michael to stand up or to cease restraining as it is time for the devil to be allowed a short time to finish God's will concerning the earth. Rev. 12:9, 13-17.
Satan is not the beast but he will possess the beast when he is killed and rises up in three days. This will be when Michael stops restraining. The battle of Rev. 19 is Armageddon and it is well known that that will be the battle that ends the 70th week and introduces the beginning of the millennial era.
The new post I put up in the eschatology forum will answer some of your other questions.

Ahem. You DO know that 'restrained' is a synonym of 'bound'...right?