Romans 11 and the real Replacement Theology

[Peterlag]

You can make excuses to ignore Jesus' words..I cannot..

Maranatha

Jesus was not always saying something that would apply to you because many times he was speaking about what concerns Israel and not the Christian administration we are now in. We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

Give each verse reference the way any adult to adult conversation would go.

while Paul waited for them at Athens his [autós] spirit was stirred in him.

The word autós in the above verse means this: While Paul waited for them at Athen's, Paul's spirit was stirred in him.

The word autós always refers back to the subject that was introduced. The subject was Paul, the person whose spirit is being referred to.

Your question based on your entire argument to this point implies that you are claiming that the verse is referring to God's Spirit.

Not God's Spirit. Paul's spirit (though there is no doubt that Paul's spirit was in fellowship with the Holy Spirit).

Stephen calling upon God and saying Lord Jesus receive my [egṓ] spirit.

[StrongsGreek] 01473
ἐγώ egṓ, eg-o'
a primary pronoun of the first person I (only expressed when emphatic)
:--I, me. For the other cases and the plural see 1691, 1698, 1700, 2248, 2249, 2254, 2257, etc.

Not God's Spirit. Stephen's own human spirit. Again, your question based on your entire argument to this point implies that you are claiming that Stephen was referring God's Spirit, as though God needed to receive His own Spirit from Stephen.

You can stop throwing out dumb questions based on your own private interpretations of scripture (where you do not even bother to add the verse references).

Speed-reading down your list, it seems as though most of the other sentences are speaking about God's Spirit, but I'm not going to answer the rest of the above question because I'm not going to read each and every sentence to see whose spirit is being spoken of - and you do not even bother to quote the verse references.

You're a joke, and it's a waste of time. You're welcome to waste someone else's time with questions like that. ​

I could be wrong about Paul here, I don't think I am...
while Paul waited for them at Athens his [autós] spirit was stirred in him.

But here I know I'm not wrong...
Stephen calling upon God and saying Lord Jesus receive my [egṓ] spirit.

As far as the list with no references: The list is too long for that. Keep in mind I only gave you Acts. I list them all throughout the New Testament. Also just because we do not agree does not mean I'm posting dumb questions based on my own private interpretations. It just means you don't understand the Scriptures as good as I do.

 

[Freedm]

I like the NIV on this verse...

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

We are taught "to be in the spirit" means to walk upright in our flesh or to have our flesh in fellowship with God. So we read right over the many verses such as Peter and John were filled with the spirit. Or "that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21. Romans talks about no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Christians everywhere do not seem to understand the words "in him" or "in Christ" or "filled with the spirit." We can't see ourselves walking by the spirit because we are taught that the operations of the spirit are things we operate through our flesh. They are not the manifestations of you. They are of the spirit. We are also taught that we are sinners and this is another reason why we can't see the spirit as long as we see ourselves as a piece of trash. To see it we have to see ourselves as the righteousness of God in him.

I live by the faith of the Son of God...

If Paul in Galatians 2:20 says he's crucified in the flesh. But he still lives, but not him, but Christ. Then I gotta think he's referring to the Christ within. The new nature. And that is the spirit of Christ. Which we can shorten to spirit. Then it's the faith from the spirit. Well, one of the operations or manifestations of the spirit is faith.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature. In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. It now seems clear to me that this concept of what the Christians believe today is not what the Scriptures teach.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ. It’s dead and gone because it does not exist anymore. We become totally new in our spirit when we are born again, and this is how our old nature has been completely changed. Our minds are similar to computers in the sense they can be programmed, and once programmed, they will continue to function as programmed until we reprogram them. And this is what Romans is talking about when it states we should renew our minds. Our old sin nature programmed our minds how to walk by the flesh when we were born in sin.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It’s not in the process of becoming new because it’s already as pure and perfect as it can be.

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Romans 6:5-6
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

This is not something that has yet to happen or has to happen over and over. It’s a done deal because in our new, born-again spirit, we are dead to sin.

So, when the spirit is mentioned in scripture do you think it refers to a person's nature, or an entity that lives inside our bodies and can leave our bodies?

 

[Peterlag]

So, when the spirit is mentioned in scripture do you think it refers to a person's nature, or an entity that lives inside our bodies and can leave our bodies?

I believe the spirit of Christ that is sometimes called the spirit of God that is often stated as spirit or holy spirit is our new nature. An entity that is part of ourselves living in our bodies that never leaves until we are dead.

 

[Zao is life]

I believe the spirit of Christ that is sometimes called the spirit of God that is often stated as spirit or holy spirit is our new nature. An entity that is part of ourselves living in our bodies that never leaves until we are dead.

There must be millions of 'holy spirits' in the world.

Or one person who thinks his human spirit is the one and only Holy Spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

There must be millions of 'holy spirits' in the world.

Or one person who thinks his human spirit is the one and only Holy Spirit.

1.) Yes obvious there are millions who have the spirit of Christ since we probably have millions on the Earth who are Christian. But there's some stuff that I just don't know and one of them is if folks are saved who confess with their mouth the Lord God, and shalt believe in their heart that God raised himself from the dead.

2.) I have no idea what a human spirit is as it relates to God.

 

[Zao is life]

1.) Yes obvious there are millions who have the spirit of Christ since we probably have millions on the Earth who are Christian.

But there's some stuff that I just don't know and one of them is if folks are saved who confess with their mouth the Lord God, and shalt believe in their heart that God raised himself from the dead.

1. The key word is believe, as in the very next verse that follows it:

"That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

What the heart believes the mouth speaks (just like you do here - you express what you believe).
​

The following is all included in the word believe that Paul was talking about:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hades. The third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence He shall come again to judge both the dead, and those who have been born of, and made alive by the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the set-apart-unto-God and universal Christian church, the community of the saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

(It's all contained in the Apostle's Creed, which is Christian).

The word believe in Paul's statement does not include your own expressed belief of who or what the Holy Spirit is, nor does it include your own expressed belief that Jesus is not the everlasting God. Nor does it include you expressed belief that God is not a Trinity.​

2.) I have no idea what a human spirit is as it relates to God.

That's because you don't understand your point #1, and you don't understand your point #1 because you don't believe what Paul taught regarding the Holy Spirit, the deity of the everlasting Christ, or anything else that's contained in the Apostle's Creed. You have your own private interpretations of all these things.​

 

[Peterlag]

1. The key word is believe, as in the very next verse that follows it:

"That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

What the heart believes the mouth speaks (just like you do here - you express what you believe).
​

The following is all included in the word believe that Paul was talking about:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hades. The third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence He shall come again to judge both the dead, and those who have been born of, and made alive by the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the set-apart-unto-God and universal Christian church, the community of the saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

(It's all contained in the Apostle's Creed, which is Christian).

The word believe in Paul's statement does not include your own expressed belief of who or what the Holy Spirit is, nor does it include your own expressed belief that Jesus is not the everlasting God. Nor does it include you expressed belief that God is not a Trinity.



That's because you don't understand your point #1, and you don't understand your point #1 because you don't believe what Paul taught regarding the Holy Spirit, the deity of the everlasting Christ, or anything else that's contained in the Apostle's Creed. You have your own private interpretations of all these things.​

You do realize I can say the same of you... that you have your own private interpretations. I had a guy on here who I liked a lot because of how he writes say that he heard a teaching once that said those who believe in the trinity do not have the fruit of the spirit. And that's what got me wondering if they were born again. There's a verse somewhere that says Jesus said the path is small and not many will find it. I also don't know if he was referring to Israel or concerning us since a lot of what he said does apply to both Christians and Israel. That's because he was getting people ready for the next thing that was coming which is Christianity. So to whom is the path small that many will not find? Jews, Christians, or both? I better give you the verse otherwise you will say I quoted it wrong...

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Freedm]

I believe the spirit of Christ that is sometimes called the spirit of God that is often stated as spirit or holy spirit is our new nature. An entity that is part of ourselves living in our bodies that never leaves until we are dead.

So you believe it is an entity that can live separately from our bodies. So that implies then that you believe that the spirit, not the body, is what you are, which means that the body is merely a vessel for your self. In other words, you are not your physical body, but you are your spirit, and your physical body is just a temporary home. Correct?

 

[covenantee]

You do realize I can say the same of you... that you have your own private interpretations.

With one profound difference--No one in recognized Christian orthodoxy since the NT was written agrees with you.

You reject more than 19 centuries of the united wisdom and discernment of defenders of the true Christian faith.

There is only one private interpretation re. e.g. "Gentile Christians" or "Gentile believers".

It is yours.

 

[Peterlag]

With one profound difference--No one in recognized Christian orthodoxy since the NT was written agrees with you.

You reject more than 19 centuries of the united wisdom and discernment of defenders of the true Christian faith.

There is only one private interpretation re. e.g. "Gentile Christians" or "Gentile believers".

It is yours.

You know if history can ever teach us something it is I think that the masses have never been right. Even the Prophets of old were never believed by the masses. Jesus himself not believed by the top religious leaders of his day. Were not all 12 Apostles tortured and 11 killed? I'm in real good company when you really sit down and think about it.

 

[Peterlag]

So you believe it is an entity that can live separately from our bodies. So that implies then that you believe that the spirit, not the body, is what you are, which means that the body is merely a vessel for your self. In other words, you are not your physical body, but you are your spirit, and your physical body is just a temporary home. Correct?

Yes. You nailed it.

 

[covenantee]

You know if history can ever teach us something it is I think that the masses have never been right. Even the Prophets of old were never believed by the masses. Jesus himself not believed by the top religious leaders of his day. Were not all 12 Apostles tortured and 11 killed? I'm in real good company when you really sit down and think about it.

Cults are not "real good company".

 

[Peterlag]

Cults are not "real good company".

I believe the biggest cult is the Catholic Church and I think much of what you believe and think is Christian comes from them. You may say you're not Catholic, but much of what you believe is the same as them because it came from them.

 

[covenantee]

I believe the biggest cult is the Catholic Church and I think much of what you believe and think is Christian comes from them. You may say you're not Catholic, but much of what you believe is the same as them because it came from them.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world...

Catholics believe that God so loved the world.

Do you believe that God so loved the world?

If so, you're a Catholic.

 

[Peterlag]

John 3
16 For God so loved the world...

Catholics believe that God so loved the world.

Do you believe that God so loved the world?

If so, you're a Catholic.

They probably don't even know who God is. They sure don't know who Jesus is.

 

[covenantee]

They probably don't even know who God is. They sure don't know who Jesus is.

Does the word "Catholic" send you into hysterics?

 

[Peterlag]

Does the word "Catholic" send you into hysterics?

Oh good Lord you made me crack up.

 

[Peterlag]

Does the word "Catholic" send you into hysterics?

I have to agree with Mel.

 

[Freedm]

Yes. You nailed it.

So then that being the case, what does it mean for you to be resurrected, if you are already a spirit? Are you not already immortal? Can a spirit die?