Rome's 7 0F 10 Hills

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veteran

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I don't know what's trying to be justified here, but the final "one week" of Daniel 9:27, wouldn't even mathematically complete the full 70 years prophecy if left out!

There is no Biblical support for the idea that that final one week had to have occurred in an earlier time period closer to the previous prophetic weeks. Most of those who try to make the final one week fit back with some event in past history most often are the same ones that deny many of the endtime events that are given for the last generation.

God's Word is just not as difficult as some try to make it. God gave Daniel events that link with the last generation, the generation of Christ's second coming. If there were not ONE of those links given Daniel, then one might assign Daniel's vision only to past history. But alas, that is not the case.



 

BibleScribe

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I don't know what's trying to be justified here, but the final "one week" of Daniel 9:27, wouldn't even mathematically complete the full 70 years prophecy if left out!

There is no Biblical support for the idea that that final one week had to have occurred in an earlier time period closer to the previous prophetic weeks. Most of those who try to make the final one week fit back with some event in past history most often are the same ones that deny many of the endtime events that are given for the last generation.

God's Word is just not as difficult as some try to make it. God gave Daniel events that link with the last generation, the generation of Christ's second coming. If there were not ONE of those links given Daniel, then one might assign Daniel's vision only to past history. But alas, that is not the case.



I would go even further and suggest that Daniel's prophecies are NOT ancient. (Ref. 12;4 & 9) In fact, the seventy weeks are ALL approximate to 1948. And if one attempts to assign ancient fulfillments, one is met with a "dismal swamp". (Per Montgomery)


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This is incorrect. The first example is Daniel, who was NOT called to the Jews, but rather the Gentiles. His entire ministry is Gentile specific, -- including ALL prophetic passages, with the exception of the 9th Chapter, where he had to don the mantle of Jeremiah to prophecy to his own people. But everything else in for the nations of the earth and their interactions between themselves and only on approximately four instances where these international actions were directed against Israel.

All Biblical prophecy centers upon Israel and much of that upon the city of Jerusalem.

I have no idea where you got the foundation for your assertion that this is incorrect nor that Daniel was a prophet to the gentiles. There is ample evidence in the N.T. of the apostles being called by God to minister to the gentiles. Evidence that is rather dramatic at times. There is no such evidence in Daniel or about Daniel. None whatsoever.

I do acknowledge that Daniels words can be interpreted to AFFECT gentile nations, but again the point of it all is the ultimate design God has for Israel. It's all about the Jew. Christians, for example, are said to be 'grafted in' to the true vine, meaning the Jewish root. The grafting IN is by faith just as most of the Jews being cut off is because of a lack of faith. The root is still there as is the physical nation, city and Jewish folk.

The end of prophecy, after all, is about the return of the KING OF THE JEWS.

* * *

On the seventh week and back to my info I've shared about al-Mahdi the Islamic antiChrist and a point of discrepency that ought to be shared.

In Mr. Richardson's book, he states that al-Mahdi will lead an army of the black flags in conquest of Jerusalem. That event prediction is duplicated in Islamic prophecy as well as in the Bible. Islam also states that al-Mahdi will rule for seven years (Daniel's week?). We read in previous posts here about the detailed discussions about the Biblical references and interpretations of that last group of seven years.

Here is the bump in the road.

The Bible seems to indicate that the antiChrist will attain to Jerusalem and suddenly declare himself to be god. He will demand to be worshipped and will exact punishment upon those who do not do so.
Islam forbids that a man should be worshipped or acknowledged as God - including Jesus Christ of course. If al-Mahdi is to be the Islamic messiah and the Biblical antiChrist, how will he then ascend to the throne in Jerusalem, demand to be worshipped as god, and be received as such by his followers? hmmmm

There is another odd passage in the Bible which may play into this scenario. It says that halfway through this seven year period the antiChrist will be revealed. Revealed to whom? Certainly there will be a large number of Christians that will be onto his deception even from the start. There have been enough movies and books about the antiChrist so that even many unbelievers will have serious intellectual doubts. So what does the Bible mean when it says the antiChrist will be revealed? If Jews, Christians and reasoning non-believers all have misgivings then what is the big shock?

Is the shock perhaps delivered to the supporters of antiChrist? What greater shock would there be to a people and a religion that flatly states 'no man can be god', than to have their big hero of the hour stand up and break their sacred law? Law breaker? hmmmm

Anyway this is just me writing all this. Richardson's idea that al-Mahdi is antiChrist must somehow answer to this fundamental Islamic law; no man can be god. If, on the other hand, the lawless one breaks his own law, that might come as a terrible shock to some. What would happen then?

I tell you truly that some of us would be standing on the side lines saying, "I told you so."
 

veteran

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All Biblical prophecy centers upon Israel and much of that upon the city of Jerusalem.

I have no idea where you got the foundation for your assertion that this is incorrect nor that Daniel was a prophet to the gentiles. There is ample evidence in the N.T. of the apostles being called by God to minister to the gentiles. Evidence that is rather dramatic at times. There is no such evidence in Daniel or about Daniel. None whatsoever.

I do acknowledge that Daniels words can be interpreted to AFFECT gentile nations, but again the point of it all is the ultimate design God has for Israel. It's all about the Jew. Christians, for example, are said to be 'grafted in' to the true vine, meaning the Jewish root. The grafting IN is by faith just as most of the Jews being cut off is because of a lack of faith. The root is still there as is the physical nation, city and Jewish folk.

The end of prophecy, after all, is about the return of the KING OF THE JEWS.

* * *

Are you now a Hyperdispensationalist similar to RichardBurger and friends? Is there more than one Gospel of Jesus Christ per God's Word?

If Daniel's prophecies were given only for Jews, then there would be no such thing as God's Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ, for that is especially the Plan which Daniel is shown by those visions given him. I'm surprised to hear one crazy doctrine of men after the next on this forum.

 

BibleScribe

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I do acknowledge that Daniels words can be interpreted to AFFECT gentile nations, but again the point of it all is the ultimate design God has for Israel. It's all about the Jew. ...

I would observe that Daniel was taken by captivity. He served in the Babylonian Empire under Nebuchadnezzar, his son Nabonidus, and his grandson Belshazzar. He also served under Cyrus the Great.

There is NO instance where he either prophesied to the Jews, except as I've already cited where he had to don the mantle of Jeremiah in the 9th chapter, and where world history has entangled itself in a few assaults on Israel and Israelites. However, I will concede that many commentators have defied 12:4 & 9 in the attempt to contrive ancient fulfillments pertaining to Jewish history. And this is most unfortunate.


BibleScribe
 

popeye

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If Daniel's prophecies were meant only for Jews, why does Christ quote Daniel's vision of the AOD to his followers in Mt 24, concerning His appearing at the time of The Rapture?
That certainly easily implies that Daniel's vision of the AOD concerns Christians, as well as Jews ( who are to flee to the hills ).

The Jews, as well as Christians, figure prominently in the end time events. But, to exclude Christians is frankly, grotesque error.
The 4 beasts vision is surely reflecting gentile nations, and therefore are relevant to Christians.

Please show me where in the Torah, The Revelation is formatted. Many of Revelation's prophecies parallel Daniel's visions.
 

Tsigano

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Ruin yes, total destruction no.


Babylon was destroyed and is no more. It was for many years at the center of horrific wars (God cleverly protected the Jews and they were allowed to go home and rebuild the temple even though the Babylonians suffered greatly in the many years to follow). Its as though every verse of prophecy is about the very end time even though we have seen events already taken place.
Sure, the Bible does use much double prophecy like the story of Moses having parallels with the life of Jesus or the story of Jonah and the message of salvation etc etc.
It also uses much identity as in a spiritual form and symbolism . That is why the Jews did not recognize John the Baptist as Elijah as prophesied.


The prophecy in Daniel was written not for the gentile but for the Jew. It was all prophecy concerning the lands of Israel and the coming of their Messiah - Jesus. Jesus Himself said He came for the Jews but as the prophecy in Isaiah correctly says the message also went out the the furthest corners of the world and as a result every race on Earth now holds up banners to the true God. All part of God's plan as said to Adam in the garden of Eden.

The last seven years has not happened as we are in the time of the gentiles. Even the words & parables of Jesus to confirm this. God has a number only He Himself knows that the last gentile will be saved and then it will go back to the Jews - for a last seven years.

Even Satan knows this and has cleverly revealed it in a twisted way to his Islamic followers who all wait for Mahdi (the end time Islamic prophet who will be descended from Muhammad) and Jesus (obviously the false Christ) to come and bring peace for the last seven years on Earth.
--------- To reference this Search Islamic sites on Muslim beliefs on "Mahdi" ------------
In accordance to Islamic belief = Prior to this peace there will be a war and half of Christian will unite with Islam ("if that is possible" - think the words of Jesus here - Obviously reference to a false Christian church - "Come out from her" - think Revelations) and the half will be the enemy (Obviously the true Christians). The enemy will be wiped out (or ruptured as we believe).

Then will come the last seven years. Israel will be allowed to rebuilt the temple (as sacrifice will happen again - read the verse then search why Jews don't sacrifice today = because temple was destroyed).
We know that in Daniel it say half way through the seven years (3 1/2 years) the anti Christ (false Jesus) it will be a time worse than seen to date.
 

popeye

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The prophecy in Daniel was written not for the gentile but for the Jew. It was all prophecy concerning the lands of Israel and the coming of their Messiah - Jesus. Jesus Himself said He came for the Jews but as the prophecy in Isaiah correctly says the message also went out the the furthest corners of the world and as a result every race on Earth now holds up banners to the true God. All part of God's plan as said to Adam in the garden of Eden.

Jesus himself commisioned Paul to spread the good news to the gentiles. Indeed, 3/4 of the New Testiment is written by Paul....who was commissioned by Christ to spread the gospel to them.

Certainly the prophecies of Daniel concerns The Jews. But it also discusses gentile nations at the end of the age, including, the nation from which the AntiChrist emerges...which is not Israel.

If you cannot see the obvious similarities between Daniel and Revelation, then you do not know the prophecies that well, and may be speaking without all the facts.



Nice to meet ya, BibleScribe....thanks for the reply! Your comment is appreciated and so noted!
 

BibleScribe

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The prophecy in Daniel was written not for the gentile but for the Jew. It was all prophecy concerning the lands of Israel and the coming of their Messiah - Jesus. ...

Hi Tsigano,

Please be aware that the commentators assign ancient fulfillment for prophecies "shut up and sealed until the time of the end". As such, NONE of the purported assignments CAN make sense.

Take for example the first prophetic inconsistency, where virtually EVERY commentator assigns the Chapter 2 sequence with the Legs Iron and the Feet of Iron and Clay as a subset to each other (i.e., 4a/4b). However, verse 45 says: "... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold ...", -- i.e., 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE.

But if you want to believe these liars*, then that's your choice.


BibleScribe


* Please note that the commentators have the Scriptural evidence which disputes their interpretations, however, they MUST discount those TRUTHS because the time of the end had not arrived, and they can't know the TRUE answer. So rather than giving NO answer, they give their best FALSE answer. But of course, there is one man who performed and documented his research. The year was ~1730, and he refused to publish his own work because he realized his own failure at arriving at the TRUTH. So where so many others are liars, he was knighted "SIR".
 

Tsigano

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Ruin yes, total destruction no.

Let's go back to the book of Revelation. Specifically study the entire eighteenth chapter. A whole chapter of the book is devoted to the destruction of Babylon.

John wrote the passage centuries AFTER the Medo-Persian Empire's initial assault against the city described in Daniel chapter 5. John's prophecy was speaking of an event in his future. Since Bablyon has not yet attained to the status of a world renowned city, we may assume that it's final destruction described in Rev 18 is still in our future as well.

Revelation 18 describes Bablyon as a center of trade and sin and states that it will be destroyed in a single hour. Although ancient cities were indeed totally destroyed, it usually took months if not years to accomplish. Only in the modern age has it become possible to wipe a city off the map in so short a period of time. Further, the book of Revelations describes the nature of the destruction. Apparently it will be so bad and so toxic that former merchants and traders in sin will have to stand at a great distance to view and bemoan it's former status in their lives. There are few parallels to such destruction in the modern age and none in ancient history.

The city of Babylon described in Revelation 18 is a future town and a future event in John's future as well as our own.

Its the same way God promised to Abraham that he would have a son. This was a double promise that short term meant his immediate son and long term meant Jesus. The same way the Bible said Elijah will come and it meant John the Baptist.
I have very little belief that it means a literal Babylon but rather a spiritual Babylon.
The prophecy in Daniel was still about he literal Babylon falling to the Medes as history so blatantly records.

The beasts in Daniel are blatantly the empires that ruled the Holy lands from Daniels time until Christ. How anyone can deny that is crazy. History so blatantly records it as a accurate prophecy. If there is double prophecy (as so common there is in the Bible) to the end times then maybe. I still think the beast of ten heads is Rome as the Roman Empire has ten rulers leading up to the first Emperor. Three of these ruled at one time but that rule came to a harsh end. Rome also has seven mythological hills which again is so widely known throughout the world. Nothing puzzling here but a blatant example of how accurate the Bible is at prophecy.

In Revealtions it says the beast was, is not and is again. That means the beast (empire) goes away for a time yet to everyone amazement comes back. It is of no coincidence that many European rulers have tried to rebuild the Roman Empire (no - not Rome the city).

The tens kings in Daniel 7 and also Revelations 12 I believe are the former rulers of Rome. The ten kings in Revelations 13 are I believe a future ten kings that will rule with no actual kingdom of their own.


 

BibleScribe

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Its the same way God promised to Abraham that he would have a son. This was a double promise that short term meant his immediate son and long term meant Jesus. The same way the Bible said Elijah will come and it meant John the Baptist.
I have very little belief that it means a literal Babylon but rather a spiritual Babylon.
The prophecy in Daniel was still about he literal Babylon falling to the Medes as history so blatantly records.

The beasts in Daniel are blatantly the empires that ruled the Holy lands from Daniels time until Christ. How anyone can deny that is crazy. History so blatantly records it as a accurate prophecy. If there is double prophecy (as so common there is in the Bible) to the end times then maybe. I still think the beast of ten heads is Rome as the Roman Empire has ten rulers leading up to the first Emperor. Three of these ruled at one time but that rule came to a harsh end. Rome also has seven mythological hills which again is so widely known throughout the world. Nothing puzzling here but a blatant example of how accurate the Bible is at prophecy.

In Revealtions it says the beast was, is not and is again. That means the beast (empire) goes away for a time yet to everyone amazement comes back. It is of no coincidence that many European rulers have tried to rebuild the Roman Empire (no - not Rome the city).

The tens kings in Daniel 7 and also Revelations 12 I believe are the former rulers of Rome. The ten kings in Revelations 13 are I believe a future ten kings that will rule with no actual kingdom of their own.


Hi Tsigano,

You have so many inaccurate premises, I don't know where to start, except to simply point out your citation: "In Revealtions it says the beast was, is not and is again", is most ill considered. The TRUE text says:

Rev. 17 -- ESV
[sup]11[/sup]As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.



The fulfillment is quite simple, but it has absolutely NOTHING in common with your assertions.

BibleScribe
 

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Choir Loft
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Brief summation of comparisons between Islamic and Biblical narratives of the end times.

The following is taken from THE ISLAMIC ANTICHRIST by Joel Richardson.
ISBN 978-1-935071-12-9

Bible: A/C (antiChrist) is a real person of the last days; political, military and religious leader
Islam: Mahdi is a real person of the last days; political, military and religious leader

Bible: False prophet (F/P)- a secondary prominent figure who will support A/C
Islam: Muslim Jesus (M/J) will be a secondary prominent figure who will support Mahdi

Bible: F/P & A/C lead an army to damage the earth, subdue every nation and dominate the globe
Islam: Mahdi & (M/J) lead an army that will attempt to control every nation of the world

Bible: F/P described as dragon in lamb's clothing.
Islam: (M/J) bears the name of the lamb of God, but will orchestrate murder of all who do not convert to Islam

Bible: A/C & F/P establish a new world order
Islam: Mahdi & (M/J) establish a new world order

Bible: A/C & F/P set up new laws
Islam: Mahdi & (M/J) institute Islamic law over the earth

Bible: A/C & F/P will "change the times"
Islam: Mahdi & (M/J) eliminate Gregorian calendar and replace it with Muslim calendar

Bible: A/C & F/P attempt to set up universal world religion
Islam: Mahdi & (M/J) set up Islam as ONLY religion on earth

Bible: A/C & F/P execute any who do not convert to their world religion
Islam: Mahdi & M/J execute any who do not convert to Islam

Bible: A/C & F/P use beheading as preferred form of execution
Islam: Mahdi & M/J use Islamic practice of beheading for executions

Bible: A/C & F/P will have agenda to kill Jews
Islam: Mahdi & M/J will attempt to kill all Jews until "only a few are left hiding behind trees and rocks" (Muslim quote)

Bible: A/C & F/P will attack to conquer and seize Jerusalem
Islam: Mahdi & M/J will attack to conquer and seize Jerusalem

Bible: A/C will establish his authority in the Jewish temple
Islam: Mahdi will establish the Islamic Caliphate from Jerusalem

Bible: F/P will do many miracles for the purpose of deception to support A/C
Islam: Mahdi will control weather & crops. His face is said to glow.

Bible: A/C will ride a white horse (Book of Revelation)
Islam: Mahdi will ride a white horse (Book of Revelation - same verse)

Bible: A/C will make peace treaty with Israel for 7 years
Islam: Mahdi will make a peace treaty through a Levite Jew for 7 years

Bible: A/C spirit will deny the Trinity, the incarnation and the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross
Islam: Islamic doctrine specifically denies the Trinity, the incarnation and the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross

Bible: Main warning of Jesus and Paul was to watch against deceit and deception in the last days.
Islam: Islam is the ONLY RELIGION on earth that practices deceit as a tool to aid its growth. It has a specific doctrine to allow lying and deceit.

Bible: Specific nations of the earth which are part of the final empire of A/C are all Muslim (see my earlier posts)
Islam: All Muslims commanded to give allegiance to Mahdi as the final caliph and imam (leader)of Islam

Bible: A/C empire will be revived version of Roman Empire
Islam: The empire that succeeded the Roman/Byzantine empire was the Islamic Ottoman empire

Bible: When A/C emerges a religious and political system will already exist to receive him
Islam: Islam currently 2nd largest religion on the planet.

-end of summation-

My purpose here is to bring these facts to your attention and ask for your serious consideration.
Please also study and read literature about al-Mahdi, not just Richardson's book.
Please also study and read the Bible with the specific object to equip yourself against future deception.

The list of parallel prophecies and opposing doctrines of Christendom and the Islamic world are far too numerous and dangerous to be ignored.
I do not believe this to be coincidental.
 

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Choir Loft
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Are you now a Hyperdispensationalist similar to RichardBurger and friends? Is there more than one Gospel of Jesus Christ per God's Word?

If Daniel's prophecies were given only for Jews, then there would be no such thing as God's Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ, for that is especially the Plan which Daniel is shown by those visions given him. I'm surprised to hear one crazy doctrine of men after the next on this forum.


I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here.

I stated that the focus of all prophecy is upon the Jews and Israel.
Perhaps I was a bit too generic. Let me be more precise.

With regard to eschatological discussion and doctrine (those things pertaining to the last days), all prophecy centers upon the Jew, Israel and Jerusalem. I stand by this point.

If you are saying that all prophecy does not deal with the end times, then I quite agree with you. That is a correct and factual assertion.
Prophecy is not limited to the end times, but also includes sin, salvation, the coming of Christ on the first occasion*, the promises of God for comfort and help, how to live with one's self and the bretheren (in Christ), spiritual warfare and so on.

As such the scope of such prophecies is much more robust and inclusive of all tribes and nations of men.

I hope this clarifies my argument.

* It's been pointed out by a number of scholars that one of the reasons (among many) for Jewish rejection of Christ at His first advent was due to the fact that they expected a military leader to liberate Israel from the clutches of Rome. They failed to consider that the predictions and the appearance of Jesus could be separated into two distinct events in time.
 

BibleScribe

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If Daniel's prophecies were given only for Jews, then there would be no such thing as God's Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ, for that is especially the Plan which Daniel is shown by those visions given him. I'm surprised to hear one crazy doctrine of men after the next on this forum.

...

I stated that the focus of all prophecy is upon the Jews and Israel.
Perhaps I was a bit too generic. Let me be more precise.

With regard to eschatological discussion and doctrine (those things pertaining to the last days), all prophecy centers upon the Jew, Israel and Jerusalem. I stand by this point.
...


Gentlemen,

I stand on the foundation of Scripture which refutes an ancient fulfillment. To prove otherwise is an impossible task as evidenced by any honest scholar. One simple proof of this point is the contrived "seven and sixty-two" text. Neither Scripture nor History offers any precedent for the summation of numbers in such fashion, to the conclusion that it does "violence" to Scripture.

As such Scripture demands we find an anointed one after the seven, and a second anointed one after the sixty-two.


Flawed Translation, typical of NKJV:
[sup]25[/sup] “ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. [sup]26[/sup] “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; ...


Correct Translation, typical of ESV"
[sup]25[/sup] Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. [sup]26[/sup]And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. ...



Parsing the gingerbread soffits of a
house without a foundation is empty words.

BibleScribe
 

veteran

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Gentlemen,

I stand on the foundation of Scripture which refutes an ancient fulfillment. To prove otherwise is an impossible task as evidenced by any honest scholar. One simple proof of this point is the contrived "seven and sixty-two" text. Neither Scripture nor History offers any precedent for the summation of numbers in such fashion, to the conclusion that it does "violence" to Scripture.

As such Scripture demands we find an anointed one after the seven, and a second anointed one after the sixty-two.


Flawed Translation, typical of NKJV:
[sup]25[/sup] “ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. [sup]26[/sup] “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; ...


Correct Translation, typical of ESV"
[sup]25[/sup] Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. [sup]26[/sup]And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. ...

Parsing the gingerbread soffits of a
house without a foundation is empty words.

BibleScribe




You're blindness is amazing!!

454 B.C. - command to restore; 405 B.C. - Jerusalem and temple restored = 7 sevens (49 years)
405 B.C. - restoration to time of Christ in 29 A.D. = 62 sevens (434 years)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL fulfilled = 69 sevens (483 years)

Final "one week" (1 seven)? Not fulfilled yet.

 

BibleScribe

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You're blindness is amazing!!

454 B.C. - command to restore; 405 B.C. - Jerusalem and temple restored = 7 sevens (49 years)
405 B.C. - restoration to time of Christ in 29 A.D. = 62 sevens (434 years)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL fulfilled = 69 sevens (483 years)

Final "one week" (1 seven)? Not fulfilled yet.




I'm not sure why you disagree with Young, Keil, & Kliefoth regarding the gender of the text. They all assert the text is the inconcise Masculine gender, but you interpret it as though it were the concise Feminine gender.

Do you edit GOD's word to suit your doctrine?


“...as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’” <br style="">
“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keit and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”


John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218



BibleScribe
 

BibleScribe

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To All,

Please be aware that there is absolutely NO precedent either in Scripture or in any civilization where numbers are added in the fashion which deceitful commentators and translators present:

UNACCEPTABLE:
seven and sixty two


ACCEPTABLE:
one thousand, four hundred, eighty, and four
a dozen and a half
a mile and a quarter
four score and ten
a cup and a third
etc.


However, if anyone can find where a ~hammer~ is priced at ~three dollars and eighteen dollars~, (obviously, --plus tax--), PLEASE provide that citation. Otherwise, the seven is one increment with an "anointed one"; and the sixty-two is a second increment with a second "anointed one".


BibleScribe
 

veteran

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I'm not sure why you disagree with Young, Keil, & Kliefoth regarding the gender of the text. They all assert the text is the inconcise Masculine gender, but you interpret it as though it were the concise Feminine gender.

Do you edit GOD's word to suit your doctrine?


“...as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’” <br style="">
“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keit and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218

BibleScribe



Let's see what Kiel & Delitzsch say about Whom the Dan.9:25 verse is speaking...

Dan 9:25
The O.T. knows only One who shall be both priest and king in one person (Ps 110:4; Zech 6:13), Christ, the Messias (John 4:25), whom, with Hävernick, Hengstenberg, Hofmann, Auberlen, Delitzsch, and Kliefoth, we here understand by the naagiyd (OT:5057) maashiyach (OT:4899), because in Him the two essential requisites of the theocratic king, the anointing and the appointment to be the naagiyd (OT:5057) of the people of God (cf. 1 Sam 10:1; 13:14; 16:13; 25:30; 2 Sam 2:4; 5:2 f.), are found in the most perfect manner. These requisites are here attributed to Him as predicates, and in such a manner that the being anointed goes before the being a prince, in order to make prominent the spiritual, priestly character of His royalty, and to designate Him, on the ground of the prophecies, Isa 61:1-3 and 55:4, as the person by whom "the sure mercies of David" (Isa 55:3) shall be realized by the covenant people.
(from Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament: New Updated Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)


Both occurances of 'anointed' in Dan.9:25 point to Christ Jesus The Messiah, just as the KJV translators rightly assign, but the two prophetic periods in that verse are separate, yet unique events of that second prophetic period (62 weeks) is further defined in the next Dan.9:26 verse. The third prophetic period of 'one week' in Dan.9:27 is separate from the other two periods also, but once again, only for the purpose of describing its unique events.

The ONLY reason they are given as separate periods is because events unique to each period are being given! Yet all three periods were defined in general back in Dan.9:24 within the whole of the 70 weeks. The main goal is to ACCOUNT for the whole 70 weeks by recognizing each period's unique events of prophecy. It's that simple.



 

BibleScribe

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Jun 17, 2011
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Hi Veteran,

-- It seems we have parallel discussions on the same subject. We might possibly use either Topic, or create a new topic, whichever you prefer.

BibleScribe