Russia and Gog: Ukraine Today, Israel Tomorrow?

[Randy Kluth]

Randy, I support the State and the people to live their and the reason they made the State to save the Jews from such as what happened to the 6 million and on other points as well. on such issues everyone is fine with. but ? to claim such is Israel is blasphemy in fact ! it would be good if it was Israel, in fact I would not mind to do live is such a place as OT real Israel without the ones who killed all of Gods people ? That's explained in the Vineyard story ? and many other Biblical points if you want me to point them out for you. so in fact we can see a Mob working to undermine True Israel, this is expressed all through the Bible. The ones who crept in unawares ! the Golden Calf ! the Point that Stephen made to them all, that they were lead astray and then they killed him ? what does Jesus say of them ? who are they ? well them lot are not worthy of God ! because Jesus said who their Father was and that they were murders from the beginning ? get it ?? I pray for you.

People who are not worthy of Israel are not of Gods people.

All them Jews who were being mislead were not worthy of God, only Jesus disciples were worthy of the Name Israel because they are worthy of God.

Now if one understands the works of such people as they who worked against God, who killed all of Gods prophets and every other story that has the same ends ?
So now do you see what we are up against in all such ? now as to the 6 million, this was the same people that Jesus warned us about. It was they who created the whole thing, because they are as Jesus pointed out.

Such people have the ends to undermine all people regardless but for real Christians who are truly born again. for such as we know their workings.

I don't think you see how I view Israel. I view Israel as a nation that comes and goes, that does well at times and at other times does not do well. There are cycles. Israel may start strong, and then slowly faith is eroded, and leaven leavens the whole lump.

So the nation is not always bad. But Jesus characterized Israel as rotten at a time when the nation was in that sad condition. So I don't see Israel as eternally characterized as bad, and as a failure. Rather, they were a failure at a certain time in history, giving other nations the opportunity to try the same thing.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I don't subscribe to this theology. I accept the State of Israel just as I would accept any other State on the map. People are free to adopt whatever political system they choose to live under. It is my job to accept that reality, whether it is my favorite place or not.

I don't think he quite grasps it Randy, PONDER THIS VERSE ALL ye Christians, isolate what it sums up in total.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes(Romans): but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Does anybody get this? Once it sunk in it gave me shivers this morning, these things just come to me.

Just like the Beasts.........Church Age.........Beast, we have the same pattern, what was Israel's CALLING?

LOLOLOLOL............See it?

The Kingdom Age......The Church takes the Gospel unto the whole world/Rapture.......The Kingdom Age.

God ELCTED Israel to bring forth the Savior of the Whole world, THEN....

God ELECTED the Church to spread this Gospel unto the Whole world, THEN.........

God ELECTED Israel to have His son set up his Kingdom on this earth for 1000 years, THEN........

We get the New Heaven and New Earth.

God never intended Israel (one nation) to try and take the Gospel unto the whole world, one nations good news can be ostracized much easier than MANY Nations who all have the same faith. BUT.....After the Gentile Church Age Period (Time of the Gentiles), Israel's CALLING is now put forth, the Kingdom Age.

Boom, glory to God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't think he quite grasps it Randy, PONDER THIS VERSE ALL ye Christians, isolate what it sums up in total.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes(Romans): but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Does anybody get this? Once it sunk in it gave me shivers this morning, these things just come to me.

Just like the Beasts.........Church Age.........Beast, we have the same pattern, what was Israel's CALLING?

LOLOLOLOL............See it?

The Kingdom Age......The Church takes the Gospel unto the whole world/Rapture.......The Kingdom Age.

God ELCTED Israel to bring forth the Savior of the Whole world, THEN....

God ELECTED the Church to spread this Gospel unto the Whole world, THEN.........

God ELECTED Israel to have His son set up his Kingdom on this earth for 1000 years, THEN........

We get the New Heaven and New Earth.

God never intended Israel (one nation) to try and take the Gospel unto the whole world, one nations good news can be ostracized much easier than MANY Nations who all have the same faith. BUT.....After the Gentile Church Age Period (Time of the Gentiles), Israel's CALLING is now put forth, the Kingdom Age.

Boom, glory to God.

Yes, I'll put it in sort of an allegorical way. Let's use the Millennial Day theory. God created the world in 6 days, and rested on the 7th day. If we convert these days into millennial periods, the 1st 4 "days" amounted to 4000 years until Christ came. During those 1st 4 "days" Israel became God's focal point of redemption on earth, His object through which He would work to bring redemption to the world.

Christ came to initiate the 5th "day," which is when sea and air creatures were created. This parallels Christ's coming to expand the work in Israel to encompass the world, ie the "sea" and the "air." This happened in the 5th "day," as the Gospel encompassed the Roman Empire, temporarily leaving behind Israel as a nation under chastisement.

The Church age has also encompassed the 6th "day," paralleling the creation of land animals and man himself. This is where the universal Gospel began to take form in actual nation states. The imperial Roman tradition began to expand into separate Christian nations, just as God had promised to Abraham, "You shall become father of many nations."

At the end of the 6th "day," the 7th "day" will take place, which I believe will be Christ's Return to establish his Millennial Kingdom. So God's work is displayed on these various phases, beginning with Israel and leading up to many Christian nations. And Christ comes to restore both Israel and the many Christian nations in the Millennium. I just found this an interesting way of looking at it?

 

[Keraz]

I don't think he quite grasps it Randy,

Neither do you.
Thinking that the multi racial citizens of the Jewish State of Israel have any inside track to God's favor or Redemption, is quite wrong. Many prophesies tell of their virtual demise on the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 29:1-4, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27, +
The Jews are of many racial origins:

1. THE ASHKENAZIM JEWS

Some claim a link between Edom and the Khazars, but apart from that there is more than one

identity calling themselves “Jews”; none of these have claim to the name ‘Israel’.. Regarding

the Ashkenazim Jews who speak Yiddish, most dictionaries and encyclopaedia define

Ashkenazim in words like after ‘Ashkenaz’, the second son of Gomer. This confirms

Scripture concerning the sons of Noah, [Shem, Japheth and Ham], and their offspring:

2. THE KHAZAR JEWS

The Khazars claimed descent from Japheth, and from their adoption of Judaism, they became

known as Jews. But they did not descend from Shem, and therefore they are not Semitic in

origin. To relate the term “anti-Semitism” to Jews of this origin is nonsense and part of the

great deception! Eastern European Jews of this origin have no Israelite connection. Anti-

Semitism could not apply to them! These are the majority in the Israeli state.

3. THE SEPHARDIM JEWS

The American People’s Encyclopaedia, 1925, indicates that these people descended from

Edomites who were cast out of Palestine by Prince Titus in AD 70. From thence they spread

to North Africa and to Spain converting Berber Tribes and others to Judaism. There were

Cardinals and Popes who were Sephardim Jews. They have no simple blood line, being

Edomites diluted with Syrian, Canaanite, Phoenician and North African blood.

4. THE SEPHARDIM / ASHKENAZIM JEWISH MIXTURE

It is impossible to determine the degree of intermarriage between these two groups of non-

Israelites, but there is evidence that this has been common.

5. THE ETHIOPIAN DESCENDANTS OF HAM [The Falashas]

These are known as “Jews” because of acceptance of Judaism. The Encyclopaedia Judaica

states:

The joke here is that Ham, as a son of Noah, was not a black man. It is amazing that these

people, who are supposed to be the educated and erudite, could make such a stupid statement.

6. BABYLONIAN and PROSELYTE JEWS

In the days of Mordecai and Esther - many who obviously were not of Judah took up Judaism

These are people from almost every race on earth. They became known as Jews because of religious spirit and belief in Judaism.

8. THE SHEMITE DESCENDANTS OF ESAU

These people also known as Edomites and some other names in Scripture. Historically, and

Biblically, most of these were made proselytes to Judaism and became known as “Jews”.


Anyone who wants to identify the Jews as “Israel” is not speaking about the true Israel of

God, as defined in the Bible. If we have another Israel, we have another gospel. But the

same people will insist that Jews of much racial mixture are a single race when they are not.

They want it both ways.

The term Ioudaios [Judean] is wrongly accepted as the “racial” term Ioudas [Jew] when

reading the New Testament and is the root of the misunderstanding. The use of the territorial

term, Judean, is not a measure of race, although some Israelites were amongst the proselytes

to Judaism in Judea.

The word, “Jews”, cannot always be taken in the way that is commonly accepted. Modern

international Jewry is primarily of Edomic or Japheth/Ashkenazim or Sephardim origin, and

the Jewish Encyclopaedia states that Edom is modern Jewry. Edomites are not Israelites; it

was Esau who sold his birthright. The descendants of Japheth cannot be ethnic Israelites. Neither

are “Jews” of other races Israelites by race.

Modern Jewry relates to Edom, Zionism, World Government and the Israeli state, but not to

Biblical Israel. At the end of the age it will be the Edomite-Jewish association with their

Babylonic enmity that will be burned by fire. Obadiah 1:16-18; Rev 18:6-8


But there is a final twist declared in Encyclopedia Judaica 1971, 10, column 23:

“JEWS BEGAN IN THE 19TH CENTURY TO CALL THEMSELVES HEBREWS AND ISRAELITES IN 1860.

This coincides with the cry, “anti-Semitism”.. If Zionists began so late in history to pretend

that they were Israelites or Hebrews, this confirms the hoax that claims “The Jews” are the

Israel of God. Ref: A.E.Kennedy

WE Christians are the Israelites of God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

(Armageddon/Gog-Magog), same battle in parallel teachings

I've been exploring this possibility. Thanks!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Neither do you.
Thinking that the multi racial citizens of the Jewish State of Israel have any inside track to God's favor or Redemption, is quite wrong. Many prophesies tell of their virtual demise on the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 29:1-4, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27, +

This is why I don't give "prophetic" value to your 6th Seal EMP predictions. The more you insist "this is what the Bible teaches," the more I realize that you give too much stock to your own musings. Interpretations need to be humbly stated--not authoritatively, dogmatically insisted upon.

It is entirely arguable whether Israel still has a future in God's prophetic plan. At the very least, there is an argument for that position in Rom 9-11 and in many other places. But when you insist that the Jewish race itself is illegitimate, I can only scratch my head.

The Jews are of many racial origins:



Biblically, most of these were made proselytes to Judaism and became known as “Jews”.
The term Ioudaios [Judean] is wrongly accepted as the “racial” term Ioudas [Jew] when
reading the New Testament and is the root of the misunderstanding. The use of the territorial
term, Judean, is not a measure of race, although some Israelites were amongst the proselytes
to Judaism in Judea.
The word, “Jews”, cannot always be taken in the way that is commonly accepted. Modern
international Jewry is primarily of Edomic or Japheth/Ashkenazim or Sephardim origin, and
the Jewish Encyclopaedia states that Edom is modern Jewry. Edomites are not Israelites; it
was Esau who sold his birthright. The descendants of Japheth cannot be ethnic Israelites. Neither
are “Jews” of other races Israelites by race.

WE Christians are the Israelites of God.

To say that Jews are not a race denies reality. We use the term for both race and religion. And that's because the religion began with a nation, making it into a "race" as it expanded over time. Mixture with other races and nationalities does not remove the origins of this people and religion with Abraham and Jacob. They've been held together by the bond of their religion, whether it is ill-informed or not.

We believe, as Christians, that Jews have gone off the rails in their religion. But I believe the Bible says they can and will be restored as a nation. Shame on you for dogmatically stating others are wrong on this when your failure to identify Jews as a race betrays a certain unreal prejudice that does not jibe with how people use the term today.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I don't think you see how I view Israel. I view Israel as a nation that comes and goes, that does well at times and at other times does not do well. There are cycles. Israel may start strong, and then slowly faith is eroded, and leaven leavens the whole lump.

So the nation is not always bad. But Jesus characterized Israel as rotten at a time when the nation was in that sad condition. So I don't see Israel as eternally characterized as bad, and as a failure. Rather, they were a failure at a certain time in history, giving other nations the opportunity to try the same thing.

How you view Israel is totally wrong ! Such has been peddled from the 1990's all this childish Israel nonsense full on indoctrinating people on hogwash concept and they who push this line, fear when one points out the facts of what Israel truly means. The run and hide or try best to divert the attention away from the fact of when the Bible first mentions Israel ?
So we have Jacob becomes Israel ! That's it ! That's what it's all about ! That's the key foundation of the Name right their.

Not to mention the Bible points to another who was a True Israelite ! yes their it is. with Nathaniel, the whole issue is related to you all, that's the key ! the Key to what being an Israelite as all about in fact. Jesus points this out about Nathaniel !
Nathaniel is Israel !
If one does not cut the grade in regards to Jacob or Nathaniel you are not a worthy Israelite in fact.
So one can not be just a pig, with no regards to your responsibility's as being worthy of Israel.

Slobs are not worthy of Christianity and nor were the Jews who were slobs worthy of Israel. read the OT and you find that out, slobs were kicked out. but then again the rot set in to the Tribe of Israel ? they who are under the Tribe are somewhat like water baptised Christians being a member ? but not truly born again, their is a huge difference between one who is only of the Tribe of Jews and the ones who are worthy of Israel, just as it is so of water baptised and truly born again, a huge difference !

So what we are dealing with from the 90's till now is all the work of the Devil with this childish nonsense of so called Jew idolising ! it's just pathetic not to mention out right blasphemy ! a bunch of idiots who are not worthy of Israel at all making claims to be worthy of God ! what madness ! that is a direct attack on Christianity in fact ! What they are peddling is that Jesus Christ was not so in fact ! They do not regard Jesus as the Saviour !

So who are they then ? all who reject Jesus Christ are Anti-Christ in fact !

Not to mention nowadays most people even the ones claiming to be Christians have no regards to Anti-Christ, they will not batter an eyelid, but how about mentioning this word Anti-Semitic, and see all the morons rant like spastics wanting to kill or do malice to anyone who may even be some what considered such . not to mention that same hysteria applies to Queers, everyone is totally compelled to Idolise such people and never question anything at all about them, because they totally dominate over you in fact.

All of the low life Trash have been empowered to undermine the Healthy, Sick is their good.
What was cool is now said to be Sick, so Sick is now the new word for Cool ? then there is Dog ! everyone is called Dog. come on that is pathetic ! it is running others down, but they think doing such is, The way ? Punk ass is the way ?
But who calls such punk ass morons out !
Who calls out all the Cultural Marxist Nazis out that are dominating over every one. Such is a one way ticket to become enslaved drongo.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

This is why I don't give "prophetic" value to your 6th Seal EMP predictions. The more you insist "this is what the Bible teaches," the more I realize that you give too much stock to your own musings. Interpretations need to be humbly stated--not authoritatively, dogmatically insisted upon.

It is entirely arguable whether Israel still has a future in God's prophetic plan. At the very least, there is an argument for that position in Rom 9-11 and in many other places. But when you insist that the Jewish race itself is illegitimate, I can only scratch my head.



To say that Jews are not a race denies reality. We use the term for both race and religion. And that's because the religion began with a nation, making it into a "race" as it expanded over time. Mixture with other races and nationalities does not remove the origins of this people and religion with Abraham and Jacob. They've been held together by the bond of their religion, whether it is ill-informed or not.

We believe, as Christians, that Jews have gone off the rails in their religion. But I believe the Bible says they can and will be restored as a nation. Shame on your for dogmatically stating others are wrong on this when your failure to identify Jews as a race betrays a certain unreal prejudice that does not jibe with how people use the term today.

Total Rubbish a Race is a Race, regardless !
Religion has nothing to do with Race at all.
The Jews were just one Tribe out of many Semitic Tribes in fact, the issue here is God ! and the Tribe kicks out all who fall short, that's why they did not let others in to the Tribe, because they would bring Idols into the Tribe and this would bastardise the Religion. that's why it was so in the beginning. They did not want to become bastardised. All the other Tribes were not worthy of their Religion. because such outside of such were in fact Trash ! Dogs ! Rabble ! such Trash could never defeat the Jews and they never were defeated until they turned their back on God and then they failed, this was the history of the Jews.
In the end they got kicked out of the Land, because they rejected God ! and only the Jews who were worthy of the God of Israel became the first Christians in fact.
Nowadays many so called Christian Churches do not want to point this fact out ! One would think that the first Christians were the Goyim ? but they were not at all in fact, so why do they peddle such a lie ! Well they are trying to make out that their are two types of people ? the Jews and the Goyim ? but that is an OT line ! one that is lacking in Grace and pathetic. As the fact is that all under Christianity are as one people regardless. as their is no Jew not Greek under the roof of Grace. anyone who claims otherwise is of the Devil. because they reject Jesus Christ in fact.

So years ago I would turn up at another Church and I would be asked, Your sir name is Jewish ! Yes but I am a Christian. they in turn were ok with that, but about 1990's this started to turn and the churches started on abut the Jews are Jews BS. and they would say you are a Jew ! They did not truly care what I had to say. I was a Jew ? They said This is the deal ? I said God does not do deals fool ! Man does deals, such is of this world.
In the Kingdom of God there are no deals in fact, Stupid ! Satan is a Dealer ! and everyone has their price and everyone is a sucker. But Not Jesus remember ! Jesus palmed the Devil himself off as a Titch that he truly is. Jesus said that he was not of this world ? but was of the Kingdom of God, it's King ! There is only one way to the Kingdom of God.
In the Bible their is a list in fact of they who can not enter the Kingdom of God, look it up, they can not enter because such as they are not worthy of Israel, they are not truly born again. they are blighted and a curse for they like the Darkness more than the Light. They think that they are someone here in this world and they like to strut about over anyone that they can in the dun heap, but at least they are at the top of the dun heap, and that's all that they will ever be. blighted fools.

 

[Truth7t7]

We believe, as Christians, that Jews have gone off the rails in their religion. But I believe the Bible says they can and will be restored as a nation. Shame on your for dogmatically stating others are wrong on this when your failure to identify Jews as a race betrays a certain unreal prejudice that does not jibe with how people use the term today.

No place in scripture does it teach Jews will be restored as a nation, it might be your belief, but it's not in scripture

 

[Keraz]

To say that Jews are not a race denies reality. We use the term for both race and religion.

The citizens of the Jewish State of Israel are not a cohesive, genetic race. They are peoples from any number of racial origins. This started way back, as Edomite people integrated into Judah. King Herod was one.
As for religion, that is a joke; the Jews would be one of the worst, with divisive sects and bitter rivalrys in their Talmudic, non Biblical Judaism. Most of them are atheists anyway!

The belief of a general Jewish redemption is just not Biblical. They will be thrown out of the holy Land and only the Christians allowed back. Jeremiah 12:14-16, Jeremiah 50:4-5

 

[Ronald D Milam]

This is why I don't give "prophetic" value to your 6th Seal EMP predictions. The more you insist "this is what the Bible teaches," the more I realize that you give too much stock to your own musings. Interpretations need to be humbly stated--not authoritatively, dogmatically insisted upon.

Ever ponder whether the Seals DO NOTHING at all but are Prophetic in Nature, as in Jesus opens all of the Seals in Heaven, just before God's Wrath falls on mankind. So, he basically prophesies that the first 5 Seals are the coming Anti-Christ who will only go forth when the Rev. 8 Mountain/Asteroid brings chaos to the earth. Satan whispers this strategy unto him (he hears Dark Sentences as seen in Daniel 8:23 ). So, Jesus describes his 42 months as a 1.)Conqueror, 2.) his bringing forth Wars 3.) which brings Famine 4.) Which brings Death/Sickness over 42 months. and finally 5.) He kills the Martyrs seen under the Altar.

Seal #6 is God's Wrath, Jesus Prophesies it is about to fall. Seal #7 is Silence in Heaven, the Judgment is now at hand, there is no reason to say anything else.

Notice, Angels READY the 7 Trumps in Rev. 8 and Angels READY the 7 Vials in Rev. 15, but no Seals Judgments are ever READIED. Seals simply keep letters sealed, God has 7 Seals on the Judgment scroll, no one can read it because God has it COMPLETLY (7) Sealed. Now we see why the 4th Trump brings Darkness, it makes the 6th Seal Prophecy and Joel 2:31 both come to pass.

Think of yourself have many gifts locked in a closet with 7 Locks on it. All your friends gathered around to prepare for the unveiling, you take off lock #1 and describe a nice Watch, you take of lock #2 and describe a great Golf Putter. etc. etc. until you get to lock #6 and as you take that lock off you tell them about this very nice leather bound bible you received as a gift. See where I am going here? None of your friends have yet to see ANY of your gifts, the 7th Lock still has you unable to show them anything. BUT....When the 7th lock is finally taken off, you don't need to say anything, all you have to do is (SILENCE) silently open the closet door and SHOW THEM the gifts. This is why there is silence for 30 minutes in heaven. Judgment is now at hand. Gods Wrath will now fall. Hence the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8.

 

[Randy Kluth]

How you view Israel is totally wrong ! Such has been peddled from the 1990's all this childish Israel nonsense full on indoctrinating people on hogwash concept and they who push this line, fear when one points out the facts of what Israel truly means. The run and hide or try best to divert the attention away from the fact of when the Bible first mentions Israel ?
So we have Jacob becomes Israel ! That's it ! That's what it's all about ! That's the key foundation of the Name right their.

I don't have a clue what your point is? Israel began as a nation, and that's it? Your claim that I've been peddling "hogwash" from the 1990's is itself hogwash, since I've been stating my beliefs on this since the early 70s. I supported the group "Jews for Jesus" for a short time back in about 1972 when the band "Liberated Wailing Wall" came to our town. It was an outreach by Messianic Jews to the Jewish People.

This is not peddling. It is a sincere concern for the salvation of a race of people, just as I care about reaching out to German and Finnish peoples. How dare you call it "peddling," since Paul himself denied this....

2 Cor 2.17 Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

Acceptance of the Jewish People as a race, and Israel as a nation, is a matter of accepting current realities in the world as well as real promises God made in the Bible. Recognition of this is essential if we are to reach out, evangelically, to every race and nation. Not only was Israel called as a people and a nation, but so also were all peoples and nations called by God. We must acknowledge them as such, and reach out to them as such.

[cutting out the remainder of the malicious rhetoric]

 

[Randy Kluth]

The citizens of the Jewish State of Israel are not a cohesive, genetic race. They are peoples from any number of racial origins. This started way back, as Edomite people integrated into Judah. King Herod was one.
As for religion, that is a joke; the Jews would be one of the worst, with divisive sects and bitter rivalrys in their Talmudic, non Biblical Judaism. Most of them are atheists anyway!

The belief of a general Jewish redemption is just not Biblical. They will be thrown out of the holy Land and only the Christians allowed back. Jeremiah 12:14-16, Jeremiah 50:4-5

When I said being "Jewish" is both a race and a religion I did not mean that every "Jew" by definition is *both* religious and racial! The term can be used for either the religion or the race.

By "race" we're really referring to a people who subscribe to a particular nationality. The term may have be rendered "race" because the people of Israel lost their country and their State. They could then only be called a people in search of a nation.

And since they were distinguished like any nation from all other nations they were simply called a "race." Being an international people, spread out among the nations, the term "race" seemed to fit more than just a "people."

The term really means "a people." We use the term in contradistinction to a "Jew" only being called a person who follows Judaism. Any national group may embrace the religion of Judaism. But there are also a people who originate from the original Hebrews who founded Judaism. Thus, they are both a people and a religion.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Ever ponder whether the Seals DO NOTHING at all but are Prophetic in Nature, as in Jesus opens all of the Seals in Heaven, just before God's Wrath falls on mankind. So, he basically prophesies that the first 5 Seals are the coming Anti-Christ who will only go forth when the Rev. 8 Mountain/Asteroid brings chaos to the earth. Satan whispers this strategy unto him (he hears Dark Sentences (Dan. 8). So, Jesus describes his 42 months as a 1.)Conqueror, 2.) his bringing Wars 3.) Which brings Famine 4.) Which brings Death/Sickness over 42 months. and finally 5.) He kills the Martyrs under the Altar.

Sea. #6 is God's Wrath, Jesus Prophesies it is about to fall. Seal #7 is Silence in Heaven, the Judgment is now at hand, there is no reason to say anything else.

Notice, Angels READY the 7 Trumps in Rev. 9 and Angels READY the 7 Vials in Rev. 15, but no Seals Judgments are ever READIED. Seals simply keep letters sealed, God has 7 Seals in the Judgment scroll, no one can read it because God has it COMPLETLY (7) Sealed. Now we see why the 4th Trump brings Darkness, it makes the 6th Seal Prophecy and Joel 2:31 both come to pass.

I do think the opening of the 7 Seals to be somewhat distinct from the Trumpets and Vials judgments. What they have in common are that they are all lists.

The opening of the Seals are the imagery of a great book of revelation opening, to show symbolically what is to happen in John's future. This list of events to come could very well be things that began immediately from his time going forward.

As the Revelation moves on to detail the last 3.5 years of the age, we are talking not just about NT history, but more specifically, about the last days of the age. Thus, the Trumpet and Vials judgments list things that depict the end of the age of rebellion in mankind. The Kingdom of God from that time forward will keep rebellion under control under a new universe is produced, a remodel of what we have now.

Think of yourself have many gifts locked in a closet with 7 Locks on it. All your friends gathered around to prepare for the unveiling, you take off lock #1 and describe a nice Watch, you take of lock #2 and describe a great putter. etc. etc. until you get to lock #6 and as you take that lock off you tell them about this very nice leather bound bible you received as a gift. See where I am going here? None of your friends have yet to see ANY of your gifts, the 7th Lock still has you unable to show them anything. BUT....When the 7th lock is finally taken off, you don't need to say anything, all you have to do is (SILENCE) silently open the closet door and SHOW THEM the gifts. This is why there is silence for 30 minutes in heaven. Judgment is now at hand. Gods Wrath will now fall.

Yes, the Seals are simply a progressive revelation of what is coming--not necessarily a chronological list of events, as many people assume. With each opening of a Seal more information is revealed. Ultimately, we are shown where this is all leading, namely to the Day of Wrath and the coming of Christ's Kingdom. All the trouble that precedes it is a reminder that this is the flow of history, and our responsibility to live accordingly.

 

[Josho]

Russian President Putin is prepared to invade Ukraine. Is Israel next? Bible scholars identify Gog as the leader of Russia, and the land of Magog as Russia. A critical sign pointing to the Rapture is the invasion of Israel, which begins World War 3.

Russia and Gog: Ukraine Today, Israel Tomorrow?

From memory, I thought Putin is friends with Israel and the Jews, I thought he likes them.

 

[Keraz]

But there are also a people who originate from the original Hebrews who founded Judaism. Thus, they are both a people and a religion.

What percentage of the state of Israel would be actual traceable descendants of Judah and who are genuine members of traditional Judaism?
As none can prove their descent, all the records were burned in 70AD and none keep to original Judaism, they have no Temple; then any ideas of their general redemption, cannot happen.
The Jewish rejection of Jesus is in their religion and even in their laws. God intends to wipe them out. Isaiah 22:14

 

[Timtofly]

Neither do you.
Thinking that the multi racial citizens of the Jewish State of Israel have any inside track to God's favor or Redemption, is quite wrong. Many prophesies tell of their virtual demise on the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 29:1-4, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27, +
The Jews are of many racial origins:

1. THE ASHKENAZIM JEWS

Some claim a link between Edom and the Khazars, but apart from that there is more than one

identity calling themselves “Jews”; none of these have claim to the name ‘Israel’.. Regarding

the Ashkenazim Jews who speak Yiddish, most dictionaries and encyclopaedia define

Ashkenazim in words like after ‘Ashkenaz’, the second son of Gomer. This confirms

Scripture concerning the sons of Noah, [Shem, Japheth and Ham], and their offspring:

2. THE KHAZAR JEWS

The Khazars claimed descent from Japheth, and from their adoption of Judaism, they became

known as Jews. But they did not descend from Shem, and therefore they are not Semitic in

origin. To relate the term “anti-Semitism” to Jews of this origin is nonsense and part of the

great deception! Eastern European Jews of this origin have no Israelite connection. Anti-

Semitism could not apply to them! These are the majority in the Israeli state.

3. THE SEPHARDIM JEWS

The American People’s Encyclopaedia, 1925, indicates that these people descended from

Edomites who were cast out of Palestine by Prince Titus in AD 70. From thence they spread

to North Africa and to Spain converting Berber Tribes and others to Judaism. There were

Cardinals and Popes who were Sephardim Jews. They have no simple blood line, being

Edomites diluted with Syrian, Canaanite, Phoenician and North African blood.

4. THE SEPHARDIM / ASHKENAZIM JEWISH MIXTURE

It is impossible to determine the degree of intermarriage between these two groups of non-

Israelites, but there is evidence that this has been common.

5. THE ETHIOPIAN DESCENDANTS OF HAM [The Falashas]

These are known as “Jews” because of acceptance of Judaism. The Encyclopaedia Judaica

states:

The joke here is that Ham, as a son of Noah, was not a black man. It is amazing that these

people, who are supposed to be the educated and erudite, could make such a stupid statement.

6. BABYLONIAN and PROSELYTE JEWS

In the days of Mordecai and Esther - many who obviously were not of Judah took up Judaism

These are people from almost every race on earth. They became known as Jews because of religious spirit and belief in Judaism.

8. THE SHEMITE DESCENDANTS OF ESAU

These people also known as Edomites and some other names in Scripture. Historically, and

Biblically, most of these were made proselytes to Judaism and became known as “Jews”.


Anyone who wants to identify the Jews as “Israel” is not speaking about the true Israel of

God, as defined in the Bible. If we have another Israel, we have another gospel. But the

same people will insist that Jews of much racial mixture are a single race when they are not.

They want it both ways.

The term Ioudaios [Judean] is wrongly accepted as the “racial” term Ioudas [Jew] when

reading the New Testament and is the root of the misunderstanding. The use of the territorial

term, Judean, is not a measure of race, although some Israelites were amongst the proselytes

to Judaism in Judea.

The word, “Jews”, cannot always be taken in the way that is commonly accepted. Modern

international Jewry is primarily of Edomic or Japheth/Ashkenazim or Sephardim origin, and

the Jewish Encyclopaedia states that Edom is modern Jewry. Edomites are not Israelites; it

was Esau who sold his birthright. The descendants of Japheth cannot be ethnic Israelites. Neither

are “Jews” of other races Israelites by race.

Modern Jewry relates to Edom, Zionism, World Government and the Israeli state, but not to

Biblical Israel. At the end of the age it will be the Edomite-Jewish association with their

Babylonic enmity that will be burned by fire. Obadiah 1:16-18; Rev 18:6-8


But there is a final twist declared in Encyclopedia Judaica 1971, 10, column 23:

“JEWS BEGAN IN THE 19TH CENTURY TO CALL THEMSELVES HEBREWS AND ISRAELITES IN 1860.

This coincides with the cry, “anti-Semitism”.. If Zionists began so late in history to pretend

that they were Israelites or Hebrews, this confirms the hoax that claims “The Jews” are the

Israel of God. Ref: A.E.Kennedy

WE Christians are the Israelites of God.

That is why in Matthew 25, Christ brings Israel out of all nations and sends the sheep to rule and reign on earth for 1000 years and the goats into eternal damnation. But God chooses whom He will, so He will redeem wicked sinners, and send self righteous to damnation. Of course it will work both ways. Many will get their reward according to their natural bent. But since Christ is doing the choosing, no one can justify God's choice with their own personal opinion of another human. Who is Israel is not up to us. All we are to concern ourselves with is accepting the Atonement and being conformed to the Holy Spirit despite our sin natures.

 

[Timtofly]

Ever ponder whether the Seals DO NOTHING at all but are Prophetic in Nature, as in Jesus opens all of the Seals in Heaven, just before God's Wrath falls on mankind. So, he basically prophesies that the first 5 Seals are the coming Anti-Christ who will only go forth when the Rev. 8 Mountain/Asteroid brings chaos to the earth. Satan whispers this strategy unto him (he hears Dark Sentences (Dan. 8). So, Jesus describes his 42 months as a 1.)Conqueror, 2.) his bringing Wars 3.) Which brings Famine 4.) Which brings Death/Sickness over 42 months. and finally 5.) He kills the Martyrs under the Altar.

Sea. #6 is God's Wrath, Jesus Prophesies it is about to fall. Seal #7 is Silence in Heaven, the Judgment is now at hand, there is no reason to say anything else.

Notice, Angels READY the 7 Trumps in Rev. 9 and Angels READY the 7 Vials in Rev. 15, but no Seals Judgments are ever READIED. Seals simply keep letters sealed, God has 7 Seals in the Judgment scroll, no one can read it because God has it COMPLETLY (7) Sealed. Now we see why the 4th Trump brings Darkness, it makes the 6th Seal Prophecy and Joel 2:31 both come to pass.

Think of yourself have many gifts locked in a closet with 7 Locks on it. All your friends gathered around to prepare for the unveiling, you take off lock #1 and describe a nice Watch, you take of lock #2 and describe a great putter. etc. etc. until you get to lock #6 and as you take that lock off you tell them about this very nice leather bound bible you received as a gift. See where I am going here? None of your friends have yet to see ANY of your gifts, the 7th Lock still has you unable to show them anything. BUT....When the 7th lock is finally taken off, you don't need to say anything, all you have to do is (SILENCE) silently open the closet door and SHOW THEM the gifts. This is why there is silence for 30 minutes in heaven. Judgment is now at hand. Gods Wrath will now fall.

Better not look for an AC then, because none is mentioned on Revelation 6. None of those riders on horses are human. They are symbolic, but not symbolic of any particular humans. People even get the 5th Seal totally wrong. Souls under the alter is symbolic that every person currently in Paradise are waiting to be glorified at the Second Coming, which is the 6th Seal. It is not about those who are about to die in some alledged GT. Those souls under the Alter started with Abel and include many redeemed who physically left earth in the last few days. They are waiting in Paradise until the final harvest is completed, and all of Adam's flesh and blood have passed from physical life in corruptible bodies, and given their standing in either waiting for the GWT, or living in the 1000 year reign of Christ.

The silence in heaven is the church holding her collective breath before judgment of Christ the Lamb as Prince starts reaping the final harvest. Notice the whole church. Those left on earth are not the church at the Second Coming. All on earth are still considered covered by the blood in the Lamb's book of life. But the names are going to start being removed and quickly. That is why there is silence. The 7th Seal opened the Lamb's book of life. Now people will be dropping out of the Lamb's book of life in quick fashion, starting with the goats. And, No! The church does not get to decide who is a goat and who is a sheep. Not now, and not then. That is the decision of Christ alone as Prince on His glorious throne in His Temple in Jerusalem. Matthew 25 is this time of judgment after the 7th Seal is opened, and the Trumpets start to sound.

 

[Keraz]

The silence in heaven is the church holding her collective breath before judgment of Christ the Lamb as Prince starts reaping the final harvest. Notice the whole church. Those left on earth are not the church at the Second Coming. All on earth are still considered covered by the blood in the Lamb's book of life. But the names are going to start being removed and quickly. That is why there is silence. The 7th Seal opened the Lamb's book of life.

Speculative nonsense!
The Seventh Seal is a time gap; of a half hour in heaven, but 'about 20 years' on earth.
This is proved by how this is about the time needed to fulfil all the events between Revelation 8 to Rev 19:10

The Book of Life will e opened at the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.

 

[Randy Kluth]

What percentage of the state of Israel would be actual traceable descendants of Judah and who are genuine members of traditional Judaism?
As none can prove their descent, all the records were burned in 70AD and none keep to original Judaism, they have no Temple; then any ideas of their general redemption, cannot happen.
The Jewish rejection of Jesus is in their religion and even in their laws. God intends to wipe them out. Isaiah 22:14

I think you're reacting to people who place a premium on genealogies, based on the ancient need to keep tribal records. And some Christians today focus on their own unique view of Rev 7, where 144,000 Jews are identified as 12,000 from each tribe. They think this means DNA is still relevant.

I don't. I think what is important is that all 12 tribes merged together to form the Jewish People. The point of Rev 7 is to point that out, that God's promise to include all 12 tribes in one nation is fulfilled all the way until the end of the age. At that point, their nation will be restored.