Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[pia]

Oh so all His suffering on the Cross was not enough for Paul??? His praying till teh blood poured out His skin, being beating, being spat on, having a crown of thorns thrust on His head. having nails thrust through His hands and feet, being shoved up for all teh world to see, to make a spectacle of Him, the separation from God, because God could not look upon Him in His sinful state, His death, was not enough?? Seems so for far to many so called christians who want to add there 5c. As if they could somehow improve on Jesus.

Hi there. When you're right, you're right !!!!!!! Mighty truth and utterly freeing.. He sorely needs those who will keep Him OFF the cross now, and go on in The Spirit with Him, being molded into His image and likeness along the way, to become fully one ( as we are in the Spirit ), but He would desire that we start doing it while we're here on earth, to be a witness to others. Sadly a lot of Christians just browbeat people into coming to God, instead of loving them into The Kingdom. They often also do all in their power to keep believers at the foot of the cross....Well guess what? That's not where He is anymore, get over it...... If we are to become shining beacons of Light, we MUST have that light within us. Great Stuff.....Thanks for posting that

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, really I think we have to concede that there are atheists and trolls that enjoy joining religious forums just to start trouble. I happened last year on an atheist site while employing keywords on Google seeking Christian community.
I was curious as to how an atheist site would pop in the results so I went for a look-see. Turns out the atheist Administrator started a thread that had many pages of atheist feedback. And its subject line pertained to Christian forums. That's why Google results caught that particular thread.
This was a thread instructing a How-To for the member atheists in posing as a POE. Or, enacting Poe's Law. I.E. affording a fake profile of a Christian. In order to mess with Christians on their own forums.

The reason I offer this personal experience is so that the Christian sister and brother that finds an obstinate attitude in one that refuses to accept scripture that points to eternal salvation being irrevocable can be because an Atheist won't know scripture. A POE wouldn't care about scripture.
They'd care to frustrate a community and to see how many pages they can get to accrue dedicated to changing their mind. When in truth their mind isn't on Christ. They don't have a Bible and they don't really care at all about the truth of God in Christ.

I found those that piecemeal scripture together in order to argue "Christ said" salvation is not eternal are not actually persons that know scripture.
Context is everything.

Jesus never taught we could lose our Salvation. He died to give us eternal life. Not temporary promises that we could work to repeal.

Then, refute the following passages that clearly state that salvation CAN be lost by our own doing - because I didn't see you respond to these before:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had to begin with?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosis). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Pretty self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hi there. When you're right, you're right !!!!!!! Mighty truth and utterly freeing.. He sorely needs those who will keep Him OFF the cross now, and go on in The Spirit with Him, being molded into His image and likeness along the way, to become fully one ( as we are in the Spirit ), but He would desire that we start doing it while we're here on earth, to be a witness to others. Sadly a lot of Christians just browbeat people into coming to God, instead of loving them into The Kingdom. They often also do all in their power to keep believers at the foot of the cross....Well guess what? That's not where He is anymore, get over it...... If we are to become shining beacons of Light, we MUST have that light within us. Great Stuff.....Thanks for posting that

And, since your friend mjrhealth has failed to answer the question I asked three times - let's see if YOU can answer it:

Explain the following:

Col. 1:24
"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church"

WHAT does Paul mean here??

 

[mjrhealth]

Explain the following:

ANd BOL what are you going to do to improve on Jesus, please tell us all, are you so much better than Jesus????

 

[Stranger]

Nope.
EVERY verse I presented states that repentance is REQUIRED for salvation - from everybody - not just Jews.

Again, I never said repentance does not play a role. But you do not understand the repentance of those who are lost and the repentance of the believer.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Again, I never said repentance does not play a role. But you do not understand the repentance of those who are lost and the repentance of the believer.

Stranger

Repentance is repentance because we are lost unless we repent.
Repentance is NOT different for different people. It's coming to God in humility and contrition for having sinned against Him.

Your view that God changes the rules for different people does not wash with Scripture . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

ANd BOL what are you going to do to improve on Jesus, please tell us all, are you so much better than Jesus????

Still unable to explain Col. 1:24, I see.
I'm not surprised . . .

 

[Stranger]

And now you've been caught in yet another LIE.

YOUR statement from post #337:
"This means we are his sheep BEFORE we believe."

What lie. I said we are his sheep before we believe. But, it is not I that said it, it is Christ. (John 10:26) The lie is what you are trying to bake. wordsmith

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Repentance is repentance because we are lost unless we repent.
Repentance is NOT different for different people. It's coming to God in humility and contrition for having sinned against Him.

Your view that God changes the rules for different people does not wash with Scripture . . .

You are simply muddying the water over repentance to hide your inability to defend your statement that the prodigal son is a picture of a loss of salvation.

You have already lost that argument, and now attempt to divert attention elsewhere. See, I remember you. Remember (John 10:26)? I do. And you perverted it.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Well, really I think we have to concede that there are atheists and trolls that enjoy joining religious forums just to start trouble. I happened last year on an atheist site while employing keywords on Google seeking Christian community.
I was curious as to how an atheist site would pop in the results so I went for a look-see. Turns out the atheist Administrator started a thread that had many pages of atheist feedback. And its subject line pertained to Christian forums. That's why Google results caught that particular thread.
This was a thread instructing a How-To for the member atheists in posing as a POE. Or, enacting Poe's Law. I.E. affording a fake profile of a Christian. In order to mess with Christians on their own forums.

The reason I offer this personal experience is so that the Christian sister and brother that finds an obstinate attitude in one that refuses to accept scripture that points to eternal salvation being irrevocable can be because an Atheist won't know scripture. A POE wouldn't care about scripture.
They'd care to frustrate a community and to see how many pages they can get to accrue dedicated to changing their mind. When in truth their mind isn't on Christ. They don't have a Bible and they don't really care at all about the truth of God in Christ.

I found those that piecemeal scripture together in order to argue "Christ said" salvation is not eternal are not actually persons that know scripture.
Context is everything.

Jesus never taught we could lose our Salvation. He died to give us eternal life. Not temporary promises that we could work to repeal.

I agree. I went to an atheistic forum just to argue with them. They do indeed go to Christian forums presenting themselves as Christians just to learn the arguments. Atheists will present themselves as Christians, and muslims will also present themselves as Christians. And muslim men will often present themselves as females instead of males knowing they will get less of an attack.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

This was a thread instructing a How-To for the member atheists in posing as a POE. Or, enacting Poe's Law. I.E. affording a fake profile of a Christian. In order to mess with Christians on their own forums.

Well I learned something from that!! That is news to me...live and learn as they say. I never dreamed that they would be so intimidated by us that they would take that much interest to try and mess up a forum. wow.
In one way, that must be a good thing eh? It shows that they want to quieten us and try to overturn our faith!! So we must be more of a threat than I knew Yay!!
Bring it on is what I say. LOL

Thank you for the info.

 

[mjrhealth]

Still unable to explain Col. 1:24, I see.

I did, PAul was arrogant enough to think He could outdo Jesus, funny thing about men being a disciple and still had issues. and here you are just like Him trying to improve on Jesus, cant wait to see teh outcome.

 

[mjrhealth]

What lie. I said we are his sheep before we believe. But, it is not I that said it, it is Christ. (John 10:26) The lie is what you are trying to bake. wordsmith

and that is a lie to, for as it says,
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

if you are not following Him alone if you are not hearing His voice, nothing to do with reading the bible or going to church, than you are not His sheep. Has nothing to do with being a christian.

 

[pia]

ANd BOL what are you going to do to improve on Jesus, please tell us all, are you so much better than Jesus????

I am not sure why BOL replied to a reply I gave which was for you, but hey live and let live ( as it won't always be so ). amazing how many want to add all sorts of things to christs finished work. If ONLY they would BELIEVE !

 

[FHII]

and that is a lie to, for as it says,
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

if you are not following Him alone if you are not hearing His voice, nothing to do with reading the bible or going to church, than you are not His sheep. Has nothing to do with being a christian.

Why do you believe it has nothing to do with reading the Bible or going to Church? (As if we haven't been down that road before?)

I wiil be bold enough to say this: You cannot fully know about Jesus without reading the Bible and you cannot fully worship Jesus if you are not in his Church. And yes, I mean and actual gathering of earthen vessels People dwelling in the flesh.

I even have a verse that says you don't/ can't have faith without a preacher. But, well you know.... That's what the Bivle says. If you don't need the Bible...

 

[Job]

I even have a verse that says you don't/ can't have faith without a preacher.

Would you mind sharing that verse? Thanks.

 

[mjrhealth]

You cannot fully know about Jesus without reading the Bible and you cannot fully worship Jesus if you are not in his Church

You got it back to front , you cannot fully know Jesus without spending time with Jesus, in fact it is the only way you can know Him,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

dont you get it

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you,they are spirit, and they are life.

As for worshiping Jesus and God teh best we can do id have Faith and believe ther is no greater worship than

Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

 

[FHII]

I did, PAul was arrogant enough to think He could outdo Jesus, funny thing about men being a disciple and still had issues. and here you are just like Him trying to improve on Jesus, cant wait to see teh outcome.

Clearly not what Paul was saying or trying to do.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
[24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

"That" which was behind or laking wasn't Christ's afflictions: not in reality nor by what Paul was saying. The "that" was the gentiles. He was looking to educate and guide them in their (the saints at Colossae) walk in the faith. Thats why he said he was made a minister (by Jesus).

His sufferings weren't being hung on a cross or being tortured. He was a minister and gave up his life for the cause. He did have physical hardships and of course dilembas and spiritual travailings. His life as a minister and apostle was not easy.

So love ya brother... But I disagree with you yet again on another point.

That isn't to say I agree that you can have salvation and lose it. I believe you and appear to have it and manifest you never had it to begin with.

 

[FHII]

Would you mind sharing that verse? Thanks.

The one key scripture is Romans 10:14. For context, read verses 13 and 17.

In short, if call on his name you shall be saved. You can't call on him unless you have heard him. Faith comes by hearing. You can't hear him without a preacher.

 

[FHII]

You got it back to front , you cannot fully know Jesus without spending time with Jesus, in fact it is the only way you can know Him,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

dont you get it

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you,they are spirit, and they are life.

As for worshiping Jesus and God teh best we can do id have Faith and believe ther is no greater worship than

Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Well the first words you quoted were "search the scripture..." hard to do without a Bible!

Jesus was telling them that they read them and think they have eternal life simple by knowing them. But what they didn't do is understand that the procephcy in those scriptures pointed to him.

In other words, the way to salvation and eternal life was coming: in fact it was right there before them: Jesus was that way! The scriptures weren't they way, they pointed to the way.

And the way continued after that to use the written word.

Psalms 51 is wonderful... More about repentance than faith.