Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[Stranger]

Judas drive out demons and healed the sick in the name of Christ (Mark 6:12-13) - did he not??

Whooa up there pardner. Are you saying Judas was a child of God? That is a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

For those that believe they can lose their salvation, is this verse then untrue? John 10:28-30.

"Many will cry 'Lord, Lord'"

 

[Mick_Alexander]

I wouldn't know about OSAS believers. But you misunderstand. Paul is not saying "if" one walks after the flesh or not...he is stating a fact referring to: "them...who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

We can't ignore the corollary. Rom. 8:12-14 clearly tell us that a Christian can live in the flesh or the Spirit. It is only those who walk in the Spirit who are not condemned.

There is no "earthly works" vs. "His work of atonement/propitiation." It is one work:

Surely you can see that Jesus came to earth and did things and then proceeded to heaven to finish it all off. There was an earthly side and a heavenly side. If we say that Jesus had nothing further to do after He said, "It is finished", then there was no need for Him to die. The fact is, His propitiatory work was not finished at that point in time. If it was then He could have hopped down off the cross. But we know that Paul tells us, in 1 Cor. 15, that without the resurrection our preaching and faith is useless.

God bless,
Mick

 

[Mick_Alexander]

I wouldn't know about OSAS believers. But you misunderstand. Paul is not saying "if" one walks after the flesh or not...he is stating a fact referring to: "them...who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

We can't ignore the corollary. Rom. 8:12-14 clearly tell us that a Christian can live in the flesh or the Spirit. It is only those who walk in the Spirit who are not condemned.

There is no "earthly works" vs. "His work of atonement/propitiation." It is one work:

Surely you can see that Jesus came to earth and did things and then proceed to heaven to finish it all off. There was an earthly side and a heavenly side. If we say that Jesus had nothing further to do after He said, "It is finished" then there was no need for Him to die. The fact is, His propitiatory work was not finished at that point in time. If it was then He could have hopped down off the cross. But we know that Paul tells us, in 1 Cor. 15, that without the resurrection our preaching and faith are useless.

God bless,
Mick

 

[Mick_Alexander]

These know the way. They know the truth. But they are not saved. They reject the truth knowingly. Read also (Rom. 1:32)

They knew the way but forsook the way. They were never saved just as those in (2 Peter) were never saved.

Stranger

Amen, they rejected the way but did not forsake it. The word "forsake" is not in the text, you are adding it in. I know the way of Catholicism but reject it; that doesn't mean I have forsaken it. We can only forsake something we possess.

In all seriousness, rather than argue with me why not check a dictionary? Check out apostate at the same time.



God bless,
Mick

 

[BreadOfLife]

Whooa up there pardner. Are you saying Judas was a child of God? That is a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

Stranger

Can anybody but a child of God cast out demons and heal the sick in Christ's name??

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is very clear. You are saved by faith. Thus no work can take away your salvation. No work can make you disbelieve.

Now, show me chapter and verse where we lose our salvation because of a work we do.

Stranger

I already did with the example of Judas.
Now - YOU show ME a verse that says we can't lose our faith by our own doing.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The son never quit being the son. He was still the son. A picture of salvation. Not loss of salvation. What a distorted theology.

Stranger

The mere fact that he WAS a son of the Father means he was saved.
He LOST that salvation when he rejected his father and left home.
He repented and regained his salvation.

Not that difficult to understand there, sparky . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So...you're a nobody?

Well, if Christ doesn't condemn me, then I am saved.

Stranger

We're ALL nobodys - but God loves us anyway.
That's Bible 101 . . .

 

[Stranger]

Amen, a servant is rewarded for faithfulness and condemned for unfaithfulness.

Repentance to be saved is not works, Jesus commanded it.
In Luk_13:3, "repent" is Present Active Subjunctive means that we must continue in repentance otherwise perish. In Mar_1:15, both "repent" and "believe" are Present Active Imperatives meaning that Jesus commands mankind to repent and actively continue to repent, as well as believe and actively continue to believe in order to inherit eternal life.

I'll ask you this -
In Luk_13:3, the word "repent" is Present Active Subjunctive, meaning that Jesus said we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish in hell. So, here is a question, "Does a Christian need to continue in repentance to be saved and not perish?"

There are only two possible answers -
If you believe Jesus and say "Yes" then your belief in Once Saved is wrong.
If you say "No" then you believe that Jesus is wrong.
It must be one way or the other.
What do you say?

God bless,
Mick

My, my. No shortage of the greek word spinners. You want to see true repentance? (1 Thess. 1:9) "For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God."

This is true repentance. They turned to God.

They did not turn from idols to God. That would be a work. They turned to God from idols.

In other words, repentance is not a work. It is a turning to God. Whatever is left behind is left behind.

When one turns to Christ for salvation that salvation is secure. For you to say it isn't based on some greek grammer, is a lie. I am not saying Jesus is wrong. I am saying you are wrong.

What do you say?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Can anybody but a child of God cast out demons and heal the sick in Christ's name??

It never said Judas cast out demons. It said the disciples did. That doesn't mean Judas did. Again, are you saying Judas was a child of God?

Yes or no answer.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Amen, they rejected the way but did not forsake it. The word "forsake" is not in the text, you are adding it in. I know the way of Catholicism but reject it; that doesn't mean I have forsaken it. We can only forsake something we possess.

In all seriousness, rather than argue with me why not check a dictionary? Check out apostate at the same time.



God bless,
Mick

Oh. But, the word 'reject' is not in the text either. I guess you 'added' that. I understand.

Those in (2 Peter 2:15) forsook the way. Not God. They never were of God.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I already did with the example of Judas.
Now - YOU show ME a verse that says we can't lose our faith by our own doing.

Judas was not a believer. You have shown nothing.

Judas was a devil from the beginning. (John 6:70)

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

The mere fact that he WAS a son of the Father means he was saved.
He LOST that salvation when he rejected his father and left home.
He repented and regained his salvation.

Not that difficult to understand there, sparky . . .

No, it means he was a son.

He then became lost.

Then he was saved.

Just like we who are Christians are. We are already sons of God. But then lost in Adam's race. And then find our way back.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

We're ALL nobodys - but God loves us anyway.
That's Bible 101 . . .

How sweet. But you missed the point. If Christ doesn't condemn me, then I am saved. Correct?

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

We can't ignore the corollary. Rom. 8:12-14 clearly tell us that a Christian can live in the flesh or the Spirit. It is only those who walk in the Spirit who are not condemned.

Not so.

Again, you misunderstand and misquote Paul. He did not say "if" being of the Spirit we then walk in the flesh - but rather, "if" we are of the Spirit, we have "put to death the deeds of the body" and therefore, we "are sons of God." He states the facts of those who "are led by the spirit of God."

Surely you can see that Jesus came to earth and did things and then proceeded to heaven to finish it all off. There was an earthly side and a heavenly side. If we say that Jesus had nothing further to do after He said, "It is finished", then there was no need for Him to die. The fact is, His propitiatory work was not finished at that point in time. If it was then He could have hopped down off the cross. But we know that Paul tells us, in 1 Cor. 15, that without the resurrection our preaching and faith is useless.

Again, you misunderstand. When He said He was going to prepare a place for us, He said "if I go" not "when I go." He was not indicating a timeline, but a fact of His going - "today...you will be with me in paradise."

So, it is me who should be asking you: "Surely, you can see that "today" was that very day, and that Jesus told the truth." But you apparently do not see...but you speak as if you mean to correct me and Jesus both.

Indeed there is an earthly side and a heavenly side - of which I quoted to you, that all came to fruition [then] just as Paul made clear: "now" "at the end of the ages." Meaning: at that time.

Still, you show your lack of understanding, making a case for a time between the cross and the resurrection - a time that was accounted for in the scriptures. But Christ is not for the scriptures, but the scriptures for Christ. And therefore there is no contradiction between them according to what you say is not finished, and what you do not accredit to Christ as truth when He said it was finished and that it was finished "today." So, then, you seeing as the world sees in time, and Him seeing and talking of the truth, not as the world sees but as He is the Truth - and I agree with him, and you do not agree with Him or I...for you say "not today" and "not finished."

 

[mjrhealth]

Judas drive out demons and healed the sick in the name of Christ (Mark 6:12-13) - did he not??

Joh_6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

guess who He was speaking of.

 

[Helen]

Amen, a servant is rewarded for faithfulness and condemned for unfaithfulness.

Repentance to be saved is not works, Jesus commanded it.
In Luk_13:3, "repent" is Present Active Subjunctive means that we must continue in repentance otherwise perish. In Mar_1:15, both "repent" and "believe" are Present Active Imperatives meaning that Jesus commands mankind to repent and actively continue to repent, as well as believe and actively continue to believe in order to inherit eternal life.

I'll ask you this -
In Luk_13:3, the word "repent" is Present Active Subjunctive, meaning that Jesus said we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish in hell. So, here is a question, "Does a Christian need to continue in repentance to be saved and not perish?"

There are only two possible answers -
If you believe Jesus and say "Yes" then your belief in Once Saved is wrong.
If you say "No" then you believe that Jesus is wrong.
It must be one way or the other.
What do you say?

God bless,
Mick

No, sorry not convince one bit...we are for sure- "not on the same page."
I do not agree. We/I ,do not live in a state of repenting!!!

If we have any true maturity or love for the Lord, we don't live a life that needs a continual repenting for failing Him!! .
And, what you write still sound like you feel that you have to work to earn you "brownie points", just so you wont be thrown out!
I see no victory or 'rest' in that!
Sorry, that may be your God, but it sure isn't mine!!
I think we will just have to agree to differ...
Bless you Mick.

 

[pia]

No, sorry not convince one bit...we are for sure- "not on the same page."
I do not agree. We/I ,do not live in a state of repenting!!!

If we have any true maturity or love for the Lord, we don't live a life that needs a continual repenting for failing Him!! .
And, what you write still sound like you feel that you have to work to earn you "brownie points", just so you wont be thrown out!
I see no victory or 'rest' in that!
Sorry, that may be your God, but it sure isn't mine!!
I think we will just have to agree to differ...
Bless you Mick.

Beautifully put. You made me recall His reply to one of my questions :" Why am I always failing?" He said:" There is no such thing as failing, only trying !" I didn't fully understand it for many many years,but I accepted His Word for it, and it helped me many times, when I 'felt' like a failure. Thankfully He has finally got it through to me, which helps even more. :)

 

[pia]

How sweet. But you missed the point. If Christ doesn't condemn me, then I am saved. Correct?

Stranger

Yes, if and when you take possession of the gift. :)