Satan - a bitter, jealous adversary of Job

[face2face]

Why is so important for you to have people believe that God and Satan are one in the same?

o

Job
This post reveals you have not been listening (or reading) the thread correctly.
In Job it is clear that Satan is a person or persons who envied Job and his substance...that is why the adversary states "Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side?
Envy and jealousy are human traits and to prove Job's righteousness was not out of Gods blessing and protection, God removed it, piece by piece until Job had nothing left.

Just so you "get it", Satan can be God, as He is often an adversary to those who are doing things against His will. Satan in the Bible is more often the human kind. As in Peter who was being an adversary to Jesus, hence the word Satan is used.

"Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Adversary (satan) ! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”

Things of men = satan (adverse to Christ thinking)...Jesus had to go to the cross!....Peter dont get in the way!

F2F

 

[Helen]

If God is Satan, as people like "face2face" believe, then who is it that gets tossed in the lake of fire? Are they trying to say that God is tossing himself in the fire to be punished for all eternity?

Glad you asked that.
I asked similar in some thread somewhere...saying something like..If Satan is a means God uses to perfect and mature us...and if he's a good servant doing a good job in testing every person in the world...how can he be chucked into the fire at the end after doing a good job of it????

 

[face2face]

If God is Satan, as people like "face2face" believe, then who is it that gets tossed in the lake of fire? Are they trying to say that God is tossing himself in the fire to be punished for all eternity?



Oh boy, the tripe people spew. Why this is not considered blasphemy of the highest magnitude by the moderators is beyond my understanding.

It could be because thus far, your arguments have been extremely lame...and maybe the case being presented has more in it than you care to admit.
If your supernatural Satan is so easily proven why do you run off to Revelation (the last book in the Bible) and not speak to the OP
BTW its the Unorthodox Doctrine forum

 

[Dcopymope]

Glad you asked that.
I asked similar in some thread somewhere...saying something like..If Satan is a means God uses to perfect and mature us...and if he's a good servant doing a good job in testing every person in the world...how can he be chucked into the fire at the end after doing a good job of it????

Of course, this would make God out to be the evil, unjust, vindictive God the scoffers claim him to be. If Satan is the way he is because of God, then scripture would have stated as such. It doesn't, it says that iniquity was found within Satan by God, not implanted within him.

(Ezekiel 28:13-16) "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. {14} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. {15} Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. {16} By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

 

[Dcopymope]

It could be because thus far, your arguments have been extremely lame...and maybe the case being presented has more in it than you care to admit.
If your supernatural Satan is so easily proven why do you run off to Revelation (the last book in the Bible) and not speak to the OP
BTW its the Unorthodox Doctrine forum

Ok, "face2face". Who else was in the garden of Eden other than Adam and Eve?

 

[Helen]

BTW its the Unorthodox Doctrine forum

True ( I do tend to forget that) But can you address the issue about the fire..that Decopymop and myself mentioned?
*God can't toss himself into the Fire, *neither can He punish anyone for doing what they were created to do....so it does leave unanswered questions.
Thanks..

 

[Dcopymope]

True ( I do tend to forget that) But can you address the issue about the fire..that Decopymop and myself mentioned?
*God can't toss himself into the Fire, *neither can He punish anyone for doing what they were created to do....so it does leave unanswered questions.
Thanks..

He won't address it, because according to him, using the word of God as an argument is "lame".

 

[face2face]

If God is Satan, as people like "face2face" believe, then who is it that gets tossed in the lake of fire? Are they trying to say that God is tossing himself in the fire to be punished for all eternity?

As if a lake of fire is going to destroy a Being which is meant to reside there. Fire, as punishment is only ever used in relation to mortals and even then its symbolic of the grave.

 

[face2face]

Just so we are clear.
Does everyone here believe Satan to be a Dragon? A literal fire breathing dragon?
And is this Dragon the adversary who is concerned with Job's sheep and donkeys???
Or is the Dragon actually a serpent?

 

[Dcopymope]

As if a lake of fire is going to destroy a Being which is meant to reside there. Fire, as punishment is only ever used in relation to mortals and even then its symbolic of the grave.

(Matthew 25:39-41) "Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? {40} And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. {41} Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

(Hebrews 1:11-14) "They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; {12} And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. {13} But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? {14} Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"

What is an angel "face2face"? Is an angel a mortal being?

 

[face2face]

Ok, "face2face". Who else was in the garden of Eden other than Adam and Eve?

Answer: Now the serpent was more shrewd than any of the wild animals that the Lord God had made.

Question: In what way did this shrewd animal become an adversary (satan) to Adam & Eve?

Clue: 2 Corinthians 11:3

 

[Job]

Just so you "get it", Satan can be God,

This is blasphemy.

o

 

[Dcopymope]

Answer: Now the serpent was more shrewd than any of the wild animals that the Lord God had made.

Question: In what way did this shrewd animal become an adversary (satan) to Adam & Eve?

Clue: 2 Corin 11:3

(Revelation 12:9) "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

(Ezekiel 28:13-16) "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. {14} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. {15} Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. {16} By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

Who was the serpent, and once again, who else was in the Garden of Eden "face2face"?

 

[face2face]

What is an angel "face2face"? Is an angel a mortal being?

Have paitence Dcopymope...have patience.

Lexham Bible Dictionary

Angel(s)” in the New Testament

The English translation “Angel” in the New Testament is always a rendering of ἄγγελος (angelos); this is not a true translation—it merely anglicizes the Greek letters into English. This same Greek word is used to translate “messenger” (מַלְאָךְ, mal'akh) in the Old Testament. A human or heavenly messenger in the Greek Bible is ἄγγελος(angelos), whereas we (in English) distinguish “angel” and “messenger.” New Testament uses of ἄγγελος (angelos) are:

• “[Human] messenger, envoy, one who is sent.”

• “Heavenly spirits” of whom some are “guardian [messengers]” (Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon, 5).

Matthew 25 is a good passage as it relates to the judgement of mortals (devils which means fasle accusers and thier messengers)
The everlasting fire is symbolic for eternal death.
Also used to express these terms is Gehenna which is a place on earth for the destruction of “carcases” (Isa. 66:20–24); “dead bodies” (Jer. 31:38–40).

Learnings:

Angels is often used to mean messangers; can be human or angelic
Hell, Gehenna, Everlasting Fire are all vivid expressions of a place where people go for eternity i.e the grave.

F2F

 

[face2face]

This is blasphemy.

o

Only because you are not willing to see How God can be a good satan to someone.

Who was the serpent, and once again, who else was in the Garden of Eden "face2face"?

You didnt answer the question, or speak to the clue.

I will play along.

God was in the Garden....and He judged the serpent as follows:

3:14 The Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all the wild beasts and all the living creatures of the field!

Note the connection of the serpent to wild beasts ;) of the field (no mention of your supernatural monster LOL)

On your belly you will crawl and dust you will eat all the days of your life.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Dcopymope

Can an angel be a mortal being?

Yes or No?

 

[face2face]

Of course, this would make God out to be the evil, unjust, vindictive God the scoffers claim him to be. If Satan is the way he is because of God, then scripture would have stated as such. It doesn't, it says that iniquity was found within Satan by God, not implanted within him.

@"ByGrace"

Spend some time reading & studying Ezekiel 28 - some alarming facts present!
So far no supernatural being in Genesis
Nothing mentioned in all the books of the Law.
Job is clearly speaking to human adversaries
Boy, imagine if the entire OT was silent on this so called demonic being.

 

[Dcopymope]

Only because you are not willing to see How God can be a good satan to someone.



You didnt answer the question, or speak to the clue.

I will play along.

God was in the Garden....and He judged the serpent as follows:

3:14 The Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all the wild beasts and all the living creatures of the field!

Note the connection of the serpent to wild beasts ;) of the field (no mention of your supernatural monster LOL)

On your belly you will crawl and dust you will eat all the days of your life.

F2F

So are you saying that michael contended with the body of moses with a snake? Is it a snake that Michael is fighting against in heaven? Are there snakes in heaven?

(Jude 1:9) "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

(Revelation 12:7) "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

Dcopymope

Can an angel be a mortal being?

Yes or No?

NO

(Hebrews 2:7-9) "Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: {8} Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. {9} But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

(Matthew 22:28-32) "Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. {29} Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. {30} For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. {31} But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, {32} I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

No marriage is necessary, because in our glorified bodies, we will be made immortal, like the angels in heaven who the curse of death does not apply to being spirit beings. So once again, what are angels?

 

[101G]

Just read the first sentence and then stopped.

God is LOVE.
God IS love.
NOT God HAS love.

1 John 4:8

God is ALL GOOD.
NOT God is good.
He is ALL GOOD, there is no evil in Him.

So...

How did a perfectly loving and good being create evil?
and for our own good.

Do you beat up your dog every now and then to teach him things?
And YOU aren't even all love or all good.

Since I didn't finish reading your post, I DO apologize if I've misunderstood.
But I don't think I have...

You seem to attribute evilness go God.

Sorry you just stopped at the first. no problems,
#1. You said "God created evil". yes I did, Isaiah 45:5-7 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things". just as he created the tree of Good and "EVIL". in the Beginning. or maybe you might want to give us some other reason or who created the tree of Evil other than God. I'll be waiting for that answer.

#2. God is LOVE. Yes God is Love, and he is also jealous, scripture, Exodus 20:5 "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me". Do the LORD get angry? let the record speak, Deuteronomy 4:21 "Furthermore the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, and sware that I should not go over Jordan, and that I should not go in unto that good land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance". well what about this one. 2 Corinthians 5:11 "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences". now GG, where do you think we all get our characteristics from?.

#3. God is ALL GOOD.
NOT God is good.
He is ALL GOOD, there is no evil in Him. NOT "IN" HIM but from him? let the record speak, 1 Samuel 16:14 "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him". GG I don't think you know our Lord and God.

#4. so, How did a perfectly loving and good being create evil?
and for our own good. let the record speak, 1 Corinthians 5:4 & 5 "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. now I ask you a question? "is chastisement GOOD to you or for you?".

#5. Do you beat up your dog every now and then to teach him things? Beat up? listen, Proverbs 3:11 & 12 "My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth". now why you want to bring pooch into this... Oh well....

#6. Since I didn't finish reading your post, I DO apologize if I've misunderstood.
But I don't think I have... Don't think, KNOW, scripture, Romans 1:13 "Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles". Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children".

#7. You seem to attribute evilness go God. no, you "THINK" I do, now what did I just say about THINKING, KNOW, don't be ignorant GG.

 

[face2face]

NO

Lets stay on Matthew 25

Matt 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!

Just so we are clear - I assume you are inferring this judgement of mortals is also a judgement of your demonic being and its evil angels?

Yes or no will do.