Saved Or Predestined ???

[Josho]

Hi

Are we chosen to be saved? Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If you have done the above I believe you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is what Reformed Theology and Calvinism teach. But it is patently false. All may be saved if all will obey the Gospel.

Predestination and election are for believers "to be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29,30). To be transformed into the exact likeness of Christ.

DIVINE FOREKNOWLEDGE
For whom He did foreknow...

PREDESTINATION/ELECTION
...he also did predestinate...

THE PURPOSE OF PREDESTINATION
...to be conformed to the image of his Son...

ALL THE SAINTS TO RESEMBLE CHRIST
...that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

FIRST THE DIVINE CALL THROUGH THE GOSPEL
...Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called...

THEN JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
...and whom he called, them he also justified...

THEN SANCTIFICATION (NOT MENTIONED HERE)

THEN GLORIFICATION AND PERFECTION
...and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
(that we should be holy and blameless before him)

Enoch, why is it from your posts I always took you for a reformed Calvinist? Don't you believe OSAS? Or have I got that wrong as well?

 

[Enoch111]

Enoch, why is it from your posts I always took you for a reformed Calvinist? Don't you believe OSAS? Or have I got that wrong as well?

I believe in the eternal security of the believer, which is also included in that chapter 8 of Romans:

THE ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I believe in the eternal security of the believer, which is also included in that chapter 8 of Romans:

THE ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I prefer 1 John 3:18-24

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.... 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Those verses in Romans 8 that you chose do not have the condition included in Romans 8:1-9 which I like also with 1 John 3.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Too many who use your verses out of context and separate them from the conditions in the beginning of the chapter do not believe that willful sins of the flesh can separate us from God, but 1 John 3 shows otherwise, as does Galatians 5:19-21. Look at your verses again and notice these are outside forces, not what you do yourself, which is why I prefer 1 John 3:21-24. Missing key points as the conditions and the fact that those are outside forces can form a dangerous doctrine that can turn the grace of God into licentiousness. Jude 1:4. Not that you are doing that, but I've seen others on the forums say their spirit is saved, but their flesh still sins. Yikes!!!

What do you think? I'd like to see if we can reason together and be on the same page.

 

[Renniks]

Of course, from eternity!

We are destined to do good works if we join the group called "elect". We are not predestined to salvation in the sense that we are chosen and others aren't. God is just.

 

[bbyrd009]

work to make your calling and election sure

If not predestined and apart of his elect? Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in vain, and comes to nothing.

may i ask what the end goal is, in your mind? Do you think that you are going up to heaven after you have died, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

If we search God with all our heart, I think we will find out it's God's desire for people to go Heaven.

Why, Josho? No one has ever gone up to heaven
you and your sons will be here with me
all go to the same place
!

 

[bbyrd009]

There is only One Immortal

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi

Are we chosen to be saved? Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect? Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

In the Old Testament God's people were the children of Israel. In the New Testament God's people are the of children of Israel and Gentiles. We are still the ones that have to accept Jesus, He will not force you to accept.

God is just and there will come the end of the age and those who never had the option of coming to God will be judged according to the life they lived.

Acceptance of God still means we will live, to the best of our ability, for Jesus. We are human, so we will fall short many times, but God will forgive! So just do the best you can to live for God and have faith in Him.

May the LORD bless and keep you in Jesus name!

Here in America, all have the option to come to Jesus. We have either accepted Him or turned away. So, in effect we have made the decision.

 

[Josho]

Why, Josho? No one has ever gone up to heaven
you and your sons will be here with me
all go to the same place
!

I could disagree with that one, Christian's have had visions of one's that have passed on in Heaven, Marietta Davis I believe her name was, was taken up to heaven and saw all the infants that have died, she saw them in Heaven.

 

[bbyrd009]

I could disagree with that one, Christian's have had visions of one's that have passed on in Heaven, Marietta Davis I believe her name was, was taken up to heaven and saw all the infants that have died, she saw them in Heaven.

yet they are Scripture, and she is wadr a liar, like all the other heaven-goers who voluntarily recanted or were exposed?

 

[Josho]

God Offers Salvation, men freely choose to receive His Offer, or not.



No. God Is all-Knowing. He knows Who will and WHO will not "choose to receive His Offering", and He has a place Prepared for each.



God Loves all of His Creations.
And WHEN His Creations Loves Him Back...Chooses/Elects Him...They become His ELECT/ Choice.

His ELECT, have different "roles", so to speak, throughout History...
The House of David is His Elect...
Abraham is His Elect...
Moses is His Elect...
The Tribes, called Israel are His Elect...
The Apostles are His Elect...
Mary is His Elect...
Christ's Church is His Elect...
The 144,000 are His Elect...
Etc.

Because God is "their" Elect.
1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.



The condition...is what you mentioned.
The "caveat" IS: that your Confession is a True Belief from your Truth in your Heart...
That being the case, then "Yes" you have received The Lord Gods Salvation...



Predestined ... is God knowing what men do not yet know...He has already Prepared a place for all.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

Yes, He choses each whom He Knows will be born, and IF they will choose Him.

Glory to God,
Taken[/QUOTE]

I agree, this is a good response.

 

[Josho]

@bbyrd009 It was a powerful vision given to Marietta Davis by God, when she fell into a coma, you should go check out the book "Nine Days in Heaven." She saw Heaven and Hell in the vision.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are predestined based on Gods foreknowledge. Whom he foreknew he did predestination

He predestined based on his will. What is his will? and the basis for predestination?

John 6: 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[FollowHim]

Hi

Are we chosen to be saved? Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect? Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

We stand with Jesus in heaven. Gods elect are there, all chosen and written in the Lambs book of life.
Gods word was sown throughout the world and those God granted repentance, repented.

The seed is some came to nothing, but in the elect it lasted into eternity.
Paul took seriously Gods statement

17 "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me.
18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
Ezek 3:17-18

Election does not make us innocent of obligation to share the gospel or the warning of coming judgement.

So those who are Gods elect are a result of Gods people sowing His word to the world.
Election and preaching go hand in hand. Nothing is inevitable, it is because God brings about action in our hearts as His people, who have compassion and love for all, that none might be lost.

 

[101G]

if everything is predestine, or is already set, then there is no such things as "Free will", nor "choice", and that's for God and US. and God gives both because he has both. the scriptures that makes it clear are
A. 1 Timothy 2:3 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth". right there is the crust of the matter. God's will, "to have have all men to be saved". if it was set, or predestine, then there would be no need for God to have a "will". let's see it clearly, in our "Will".

B. Ezekiel 18:21 "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 18:22 "All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Ezekiel 18:23 "Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

shall here is future tense, based on a past "CHOICE".

Should here is used to indicate what is probable. and a probability is not set.

C. 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance".

there we have it again. hence the "TIME", linear time that started when Adam and eve fell into sin in the Garden and was removed from within it.
time itself shows us that these things of salvation is not "set", or predetermined.

the problem come when the will or choice to get us "back" to God as a whole. once we "will" to "Choose" God, then he has the right to perserve us/salvation. but we first need to allow ourselves to be redeemed. God has purchased us with his blood, but we have a "will" and a "Choice" to accept him or not. refusal of salvation is our "will" and "choice".

this is why we have prophecy... warning... dreams.... visions ...... and the written word/the Bible in effort to saving man from himself. that's God "will", and his "choice", that none should perish. but we have a "Will", and a "choice".

a re-reading of the post may be needed for complete comsumption.

PICJAG.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think scripture says we are predestined, Not everything is predestined. AMEN

 

[101G]

I think scripture says we are predestined, Not everything is predestined. AMEN

Correct, in that we're predestined in CHRIST, that's the key. once in Christ it's a done deal. but the problem is GETTING to christ. we have a hindrence, called sin. and God has taken care of that for us, it's the deception of the evil one who have posion our MINDS to this truth. that's why we need to "UNDERSTAND the TRUTH of GOD", for Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children".

see it not how much one knows the bible, do one understand how God saves us? there is no competition on who knows the most, that's childish. we we need to understand is that God has paid the price of our sin, and we need to know that. once knowing that we can freely choose to answer his call to.... "SALVATION" in his Son. THIS IS THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE THAT WE'RE MISSING. if this was a done deal, there would not be any need for the cross, nor any act of anyone's will. God has the authority to make us do right but he choose "freedom". he could knock us down and pour, or fill us with his Holy Spirit, no, he let us choose him, because he has already chose us first.

see man was made to choose, listen, Romans 8:19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
LISTEN CLOSELY TO THIS NEXT VERSE
Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

there it is, "God" made us with the "CHOICE" to Choose him or not. BINGO.

PICJAG.

 

[bbyrd009]

@bbyrd009 It was a powerful vision given to Marietta Davis by God, when she fell into a coma, you should go check out the book "Nine Days in Heaven." She saw Heaven and Hell in the vision.

Sorry Josh oh, but we have a whole bunch of them books, and they are all crap i guess, I could show you the recants by many of those authors, And scripture contradicts her story too?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Hi

Are we chosen to be saved? Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect? Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

John 3:16 applies to all who exercises faith that Jesus is the Messiah who died for our sins and who is the Only Begotten Son of Jehovah God that The Only True God Jehovah resurrected Jesus the third day after he died. The doorway to salvation is open to all those who exercise faith in this loving act by The Only True God Jehovah and his Only Begotten Son Jesus.
Having said that, those who do exercise faith in this loving act by The Only True God Jehovah and his Only Begotten Son Jesus, from among them Jehovah God chooses or elects some of faithful mankind who are anointed with Holy Spirit to be kings, priests and judges with Jesus in the Messianic kingdom in heaven ruling over the earth. This is the little flock, the elect, the anointed congregation.(Church) These who are the elect or anointed are the ones who will get a resurrection like Jesus. Jesus Christ and those who are anointed with Holy Spirit are the seed Jehovah God prophesied about at Genesis 3:15. This prophecy was stated by Jehovah God after Adam & Eve sinned but before Eve conceived and became pregnant.
The Apostle Peter’s statement that Christ, as the sacrificial Lamb of God, was “foreknown before the founding [form of Greek ka·ta·bo·leʹ] of the world [koʹsmou]” is construed by advocates of predestinarianism to mean that God exercised such foreknowledge before mankind’s creation. (1Pe 1:19, 20) The Greek word ka·ta·bo·leʹ, translated “founding,” literally means “a throwing down” and can refer to the ‘conceiving of seed,’ as at Hebrews 11:11. While there was “the founding” of a world of mankind when God created the first human pair, as is shown at Hebrews 4:3, 4, that pair thereafter forfeited their position as children of God. (Ge 3:22-24; Ro 5:12) Yet, by God’s undeserved kindness, they were allowed to conceive seed and produce offspring, one of whom is specifically shown in the Bible to have gained God’s favor and placed himself in position for redemption and salvation, namely, Abel. (Ge 4:1, 2; Heb 11:4) It is noteworthy that at Luke 11:49-51 Jesus refers to “the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding of the world” and parallels this with the words “from the blood of Abel down to the blood of Zechariah.” Thus, Abel is connected by Jesus with “the founding of the world.”

The Messiah, or Christ, was to be the promised Seed through whom all righteous persons of all the families of the earth would be blessed. (Ga 3:8, 14) The first mention of such “seed” came after the rebellion in Eden had already been initiated, but prior to the birth of Abel. (Ge 3:15) This was some 4,000 years before the revelation of “the sacred secret” was made by the clear identification of that Messianic “seed.” Hence, it was, indeed, “kept in silence for long-lasting times.”—Ro 16:25-27; Eph 1:8-10; 3:4-11.

In his due time Jehovah God assigned his own firstborn Son to fulfill the prophesied role of the “seed” and become the Messiah. There is nothing to show that that Son was “predestined” to such a role even before his creation or before rebellion broke out in Eden. God’s eventual selection of him as the one charged with fulfilling the prophecies likewise was not made without prior basis. The period of intimate association between God and his Son previous to the Son’s being sent to earth undoubtedly resulted in Jehovah’s ‘knowing’ his Son to an extent that He could be certain of his Son’s faithful fulfillment of the prophetic promises and pictures.—Compare Ro 15:5; Php 2:5-8; Mt 11:27; Joh 10:14, 15; see JESUS CHRIST (Tested and Perfected).