Seeing Sanctification

[Behold]

This is so false. Obedience to God is not an option. Obedience is not a gospel of works. A gospel of works is about having to become a Jew and do the law of Moses.To make this about an optional obedience to God is the biggest lie out there...and a lot of people fall for it...because they don't love the truth.
The purpose of grace is obedience to God's will. God will reject all who are not obedient to Him.

Its a lie to teach that God only accepts those who are (self effort - works) obedient.
In fact the Gospel is...>"Grace through Faith", 'without works".
So, your gospel is a deception, because your Gospel denies that the Gift of Salvation, is a Gift.
You replace the Gift of God, with "obedience".
This is legalism, and Paul defines it as a "cursed of God" teaching.
Find yourself here : Galatians 1:8

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

Sanctification is a life long process which happen after conversion until we go to meet Christ.

Who says it’s gradual? Couldn’t it be instant?

 

[Behold]

Who says it’s gradual? Couldn’t it be instant?

It IS Instant.
Jesus is our righteousness, our SANCTIFICATION, our JUSTIFICATiON.
All this is ETERNAL. Its not temporary.

Salvation is a completed atonement.

= Atonement. = At.... ONE....Ment. = ONE WITH GOD...through, thru, Christ.

Everything that God requires us to be so that HE can accept us, He provided HIMSELF on the Cross 2000 yrs ago,... so that by us getting this as a GIFT from God, (The gift of Salvation) (The Gift of Righteousness) we are made acceptable to Him, BY what He provided.
"God who began salvation IN the Born Again, = will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL TO COMPLETE IT". Philippians 1:6
So, when we are saved, born again, we are COMPLETE...."complete IN HIM". Colossians 2:10.

The confusion for many is....."well, my discipleship is my salvation".... and that is the wrong answer.
Your Discipleship FOLLOWS your Salvation, exactly the same as being water baptized follows being born again.
Salvation is the CROSS.
Discipleship is what we do BECAUSE we are ALREADY SAVED.

See, when we lose this...>"what am i to do" mentality, and let the Truth of God's completed Salvation become our understanding of who we are IN GOD< and WHY...... Then we become FREE of "self righteousness", and this right believing is what breaks the bondage of that "sinning and repenting" habit, and removes that deceived understanding regarding WHY we are accepted by God.

 

[Episkopos]

Its a lie to teach that God only accepts those who are (self effort - works) obedient.
In fact the Gospel is...>"Grace through Faith", 'without works".
So, your gospel is a deception, because your Gospel denies that the Gift of Salvation, is a Gift.
You replace the Gift of God, with "obedience".
This is legalism, and Paul defines it as a "cursed of God" teaching.
Find yourself here : Galatians 1:8

Obedience through grace is not self-effort. You are not understanding grace. Faith without works is dead.

You need to go back to the bible and try understanding it's message without contradicting half the verses in it.

The gift is to BE obedient with. To do holy works that we will be judged against.

Grace is like being given a tractor. A tractor is meant to be used to dig holes. So then to NOT dig holes is to frustrate the gift...to frustrate grace. Grace is a tool. And grace is deceitful if not used properly (or just not used). We are to work by grace. Do exploits for God. Remember the parable of the talents. Just having grace is not enough...you must produce a holy fruit. Do a study on God requiring fruit. Do your homework.

You are one very confused individual. Stop trying to teach...and learn first.

 

[historyb]

Who says it’s gradual? Couldn’t it be instant?

I do not believe so. Of course I don't take to the usual evangelical ideas either if that is one of them.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course we are saved through obedience

If that is the case, then we are saved by works...a doctrine that is categorically denied by the word of the Lord.

 

[Episkopos]

If that is the case, then we are saved by works...a doctrine that is categorically denied by the word of the Lord.

That's not true.

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[marks]

That's not true.

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Justified to whom?

 

[marks]

Who says it’s gradual? Couldn’t it be instant?

Yes, it can be.

 

[justbyfaith]

That's not true.

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

See Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, and Titus 3:4-7.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

I do not believe so. Of course I don't take to the usual evangelical ideas either if that is one of them.

Don’t know whose idea it is, just a thought, why would it be gradual-couldn’t sanctification be instant?

 

[Episkopos]

See Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, and Titus 3:4-7.

I already know what the bible is saying. It's your turn to try understanding what is written. I can help you if you wish to be honest by not ignoring some verses in order to defend other verses that you don't yet grasp the meaning of.


Or you can continue to white knuckle certain verses while blatantly going against others.

Your call!

 

[justbyfaith]

In Romans 4:1-8, it becomes clear that *to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.* And that *God imputes righteousness apart from works.*

In Ephesians 2:8-9, it becomes clear that salvation is *not of works, lest any man should boast.*

And in Titus 3:4-7, it becomes clear that it is *not by works of righteousness which we have done but by His mercy He has saved us, through the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost.*

So then, when James says that *faith without works is dead* he is not saying that works save a man.

He is saying that a man is justified before other men via his works.

To those who see with the eyes (as opposed to God who sees the invisible, 1 Samuel 16:7), a man's faith is seen by what he does...his behaviour reflects what his faith is on the inside.

But this is not to say that he is saved by his works. Before God, he has nothing to glory of...Romans 4:2...who has works to show for the faith that is in his heart. His works enable him to glory before man....but God, who sees the invisible, looks on the inside of a man and judges on the basis of the faith that is in his heart. A man may indeed have works and not have faith in his heart to show for it before the Lord...especially in these days when the cults teach left and right that a man is justified by his works. This teaching leads men to do good works apart from real faith in Jesus Christ...and the result is a deception before man; which will be judged faithfully by our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Behold]

Obedience through grace is not self-effort. You are not understanding grace. Faith without works is dead.

All hyper-religious teach that faith without works is dead faith, and in the case of heretics they teach that dead faith is dead salvation.
The 2 most common type of heretics teach that "faith saves you, so, if you lose faith, you lose salvation", and the other teaches that you "abide to stay saved, and if you dont abide in Christ (self effort) you lose your salvation.
So, in both cases, both types of heretics are self involved with self effort to try to "stay saved", which is in both cases a rejection of the Cross where Salvation was gained by Jesus.
So, their misunderstanding is that Faith or Abiding keeps them saved (Self effort), and so, they believe and teach that as long as you are working that Faith, or "abiding", by self effort,you are keeping yourself saved and accepted by God, by your faith. = Galatians 1:8
And of course this is self righteous religion pretending to trust Christ for salvation, but in reality its just a heretic, a legalist, who is trusting in FAITH, (themselves) instead of trusting in Christ.

I can ask one of these hyper religious people, "what are you trusting to get you into heaven", and they will say...."holding unto my FAITH" or "abiding in Christ" (self effort)
So, this proves that they are trusting in their self effort, and not trusting in Christ. = Typical deception regarding the legalist who is saving themselves, in their own mind, having either never really been born again, or long ago fallen from Grace.

 

[Behold]

I already know what the bible is saying. It's your turn to try understanding what is written. I can help you if you wish to be honest by not ignoring some verses in order to defend other verses that you don't yet grasp the meaning of.

\

You're quite a long way from even understanding the Finished work of Jesus on the Cross, so, go ahead and give up the teaching position.

 

[Episkopos]

In Romans 4:1-8, it becomes clear that *to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.* And that *God imputes righteousness apart from works.*

In Ephesians 2:8-9, it becomes clear that salvation is *not of works, lest any man should boast.*

And in Titus 3:4-7, it becomes clear that it is *not by works of righteousness which we have done but by His mercy He has saved us, through the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost.*

So then, when James says that *faith without works is dead* he is not saying that works save a man.

He is saying that a man is justified before other men via his works.

To those who see with the eyes (as opposed to God who sees the invisible, 1 Samuel 16:7), a man's faith is seen by what he does...his behaviour reflects what his faith is on the inside.

But this is not to say that he is saved by his works. Before God, he has nothing to glory of...Romans 4:2...who has works to show for the faith that is in his heart. His works enable him to glory before man....but God, who sees the invisible, looks on the inside of a man and judges on the basis of the faith that is in his heart. A man may indeed have works and not have faith in his heart to show for it before the Lord...especially in these days when the cults teach left and right that a man is justified by his works. This teaching leads men to do good works apart from real faith in Jesus Christ...and the result is a deception before man; which will be judged faithfully by our Lord Jesus Christ.

You are diverting from the truth here. And you didn't respond to this.

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

If you want to go farther into the truth on this read this...

Ps. 106:30 Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed. And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore.

Same as Abraham. Phinehas killed 2 people and was deemed as righteous by God....by his works.

So James is right. A man can either be justified by faith without works or by the works of obedience in faith.

 

[Episkopos]

\

You're quite a long way from even understanding the Finished work of Jesus on the Cross, so, go ahead and give up the teaching position.

Your mantra has nothing to do with you. You can't accept the finished work of the cross because Jesus is not your lamb. He is the Lamb of God. In your selfish religiosity..you make outlandish and blasphemous claims to save yourself...not perceiving that this condemns you.

No fear of the Lord and zero humility.

Like a brute beast that is meant to die.

2 Peter 2:12
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage

 

[Episkopos]

All hyper-religious teach that faith without works is dead faith, and in the case of heretics they teach that dead faith is dead salvation.
The 2 most common type of heretics teach that "faith saves you, so, if you lose faith, you lose salvation", and the other teaches that you "abide to stay saved, and if you dont abide in Christ (self effort) you lose your salvation.
So, in both cases, both types of heretics are self involved with self effort to try to "stay saved", which is in both cases a rejection of the Cross where Salvation was gained by Jesus.
So, their misunderstanding is that Faith or Abiding keeps them saved (Self effort), and so, they believe and teach that as long as you are working that Faith, or "abiding", by self effort,you are keeping yourself saved and accepted by God, by your faith. = Galatians 1:8
And of course this is self righteous religion pretending to trust Christ for salvation, but in reality its just a heretic, a legalist, who is trusting in FAITH, (themselves) instead of trusting in Christ.

I can ask one of these hyper religious people, "what are you trusting to get you into heaven", and they will say...."holding unto my FAITH" or "abiding in Christ" (self effort)
So, this proves that they are trusting in their self effort, and not trusting in Christ. = Typical deception regarding the legalist who is saving themselves, in their own mind, having either never really been born again, or long ago fallen from Grace.

Abiding in Christ is to walk as a dead man with Christ's life manifested in the mortal body. To disparage that is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit...who is doing the works. It is to be an enemy of the cross.

A person who walks in the resurrection power of Christ is only a legalist to the devil. To seek to overthrow God's kingdom is the original rebellion of Lucifer. The devil sees Christian victory as something nefarious to his reign on earth. So he will lie and disparage it.

So in your very misguided (or intentional) effort to teach what you are not understanding at all...you put yourself in a terrible place.

Jesus said...he who endures...by faith and faithfulness...till the end shall be saved. And Jesus doesn't lie. As you have no qualms in doing.

 

[Behold]

Your mantra has nothing to do with you. You can't accept the finished work of the cross because Jesus is not your lamb. He is the Lamb of God.

You judge me on a Forum, as not being born again, and that is the carnal deed of a Fool.
You're a fool, who is very religious.
I can't know if you've been born again, but i will ask you how you came to be born again, if you claim that you are such.

 

[Behold]

Jesus said...he who endures...by faith and faithfulness...till the end shall be saved. And Jesus doesn't lie. As you have no qualms in doing.

If enduring to the end is the salvation of God, then you just Rejected the Cross. = Again.
"enduring" is the gosple of the heretic, who has no experience with the Blood of Jesus or the Grace of God.
And you'll prove it again, because you are religious, only, and you are not able to relate to or accept the Gift of Salvation.
The Grace of God is foreign to you, because you are religious, and the religious are not in union with the Truth of God. John 14:6
That is you.