Self analysis of your Christian witness

[Helen]

Not exactly. If one wavered before the foundation of the world...that is exactly what will be manifest in their lifetime.

I am guessing that you are rolling your eyes when people don't get what you are saying. I admire your patience...really.

If you wavered 'before the foundation of the world'....then why are you here just repeating your choice?
Can you, in this short 90 yrs "unwaver" your previous waver???
If not, what is this 90yrs all about...seems like just like rubbing 'salt in the wound'.

 

[ScottA]

and the Rich Man just did not read it correctly, or what exactly? See that whatever metaphor you choose, choice cannot be represented in them, as the def of "media" even implies

The rich man valued riches more than he valued God. He was a "user." He woke up in the world and used everything that had been created for an infinite purpose, for his own finite purpose...and regretted it.

As for media... How would you have God describe in detail to a slow audience of children, what He did in the blink of an eye?

I have told you that without any lapse of time, He created all things. Then revealed it all in story-fashion to the characters in the story, on a timeline that only exist within the story, and purely for the sake of their needing time to learn it all.

But you seem determined to move in to the story book and take up permanent residence...while His intention was for you to go to school, graduate, and then get on with real life as He lives. That's like seeing Mickey Mouse and thinking, "That's what life is all about...and one day Mr. Disney will come and join us, and we'll all live happily ever after." Do you not see that?

 

[ScottA]

ergo, they cannot change their minds in life, isn't that one inescapable conclusion?

You misunderstand. You are considering time to be real...when it is just a narrative of what "is."

 

[ScottA]

I am guessing that you are rolling your eyes when people don't get what you are saying. I admire your patience...really.

If you wavered 'before the foundation of the world'....then why are you here just repeating your choice?
Can you, in this short 90 yrs "unwaver" your previous waver???
If not, what is this 90yrs all about...seems like just like rubbing 'salt in the wound'.
View attachment 1520

This life experience is a manifestation of what "is", a narrative explaining the details of who we "are" in the timeless realm of God. We are judge, jury, and witnesses for or against ourselves in this playback of our timeless decision about where we spend the rest of eternity.

But, like watching a movie or reading a book, in the middle of the story line, we, the characters have a hard time imagining that it is not finished. It's like standing up in the middle of a movie in a theater, and declaring that the characters have freewill. If I declare that it is finished...your only argument is that [you] are not finished seeing the end. It's not a good argument...especially, when the Producer says, "It is finished." But if you rebut that it is finished for Him, but not for me...then you effectively deny being "in Christ", that He really meant "someday", and not "today." In which case, you may as well go ahead and make it up as you go and claim freewill. It's one or the other.

 

[Helen]

Thanks @ScottA
Slowly, slowly...
But I am not sure in that, that I can see the answer fully, about freewill "in -time" I can see it before time began..but it is slipping away from me about freewill NOW in 'time'.

But never mind...I will just go back over posts and see if I can understand them all a bit better now.

Bless you...H

 

[Helen]

You misunderstand. You are considering time to be real...when it is just a narrative of what "is."

Aah! Now maybe I am getting it a wee bit...I did understand that one.Yay!
Haha! Maybe I am only good at getting one liners...
I will keep nibbling away at the subject....
So that is why you say there is no such thing as 'time'!!

 

[bbyrd009]

But you seem determined to move in to the story book and take up permanent residence

well, it doesn't bother you any that you have to abandon your model immediately, every time we invoke Free Will in some way?

and regretted it.

and when is the last time you were able to change the outcome of a movie by regret, then?

 

[bbyrd009]

If I declare that it is finished...your only argument is that [you] are not finished seeing the end.

oh, i got a better one than that; we do not know yet what we will become (which i guess does not apply to you)
i got a couple others, too, that mostly revolve around a diff interp of "it is finished," that wadr you are not authorized to declare, at least until you can prove your perspective of "it is finished," which you cannot do conclusively.

So then, if i declare "it is finished," you might well assert that you have seen the end, but that does not make it true, right

 

[bbyrd009]

But if you rebut that it is finished for Him, but not for me...then you effectively deny being "in Christ", that He really meant "someday", and not "today."

um, aren't you the one asserting that you have seen the end, that only exists for the rest of us in "someday?"

 

[bbyrd009]

But if you rebut that it is finished for Him, but not for me

well, what is "it" after all, but a so far undefined quantity that we are dealing with as if we knew, and shared a common definition of?

 

[bbyrd009]

You misunderstand. You are considering time to be real...when it is just a narrative of what "is."

ergo they cannot change their minds in life, is that not one inescapable conclusion?

either they can or they cannot, yes? a straight logic problem here, unless someone can suggest a third option?

see, your pov does not stand up to Scripture wadr, and when your conclusions are rephrased this becomes evident imo. That time is not what we perceive it to be is surely true on some level, but nonetheless the sun just set, see, and will rise again in the morning.

Earth is our domain, and the earth is bound by time. We pray "on earth as in heaven," but we are confident, i tell you, and would rather be (wish we were) absent from the body, and present with the Lord, see, the two disciplines are not at all the same

 

[Helen]

ergo they cannot change their minds in life, is that not one inescapable conclusion?

either they can or they cannot, yes? a straight logic problem here, unless someone can suggest a third option?

see, your pov does not stand up to Scripture wadr, and when your conclusions are rephrased this becomes evident imo. That time is not what we perceive it to be is surely true on some level, but nonetheless the sun just set, see, and will rise again in the morning.

Earth is our domain, and the earth is bound by time. We pray "on earth as in heaven," but we are confident, i tell you, and would rather be (wish we were) absent from the body, and present with the Lord, see, the two disciplines are not at all the same

Good one..it helps me in seeing your questions..
I still think we have a way to go in bringing both sides together.

 

[ScottA]

Thanks @ScottA
Slowly, slowly...
But I am not sure in that, that I can see the answer fully, about freewill "in -time" I can see it before time began..but it is slipping away from me about freewill NOW in 'time'.

But never mind...I will just go back over posts and see if I can understand them all a bit better now.

Bless you...H

It is both. This is the account of your freewill as it is played out. God has laid out our lives in time so we can see it all in detail. But, if we are to know God fully, we will need to come around to His timelessness...or simply wake up to it in the end. This is the mystery of God.

Merry Christmas!

 

[ScottA]

Aah! Now maybe I am getting it a wee bit...I did understand that one.Yay!
Haha! Maybe I am only good at getting one liners...
I will keep nibbling away at the subject....
So that is why you say there is no such thing as 'time'!!

God is Truth. He is timeless.

 

[ScottA]

well, it doesn't bother you any that you have to abandon your model immediately, every time we invoke Free Will in some way?

No, I do not abandon it, but rather explain it from each perspective. But how shall I explain that time is timeless, unless I say that it is written timelessly, but read in time?

and when is the last time you were able to change the outcome of a movie by regret, then?

He/we cannot change anything after the fact. That is the difficulty of understanding that freewill is not so much making things up as you go, but rather making them up as you went. But that all assumes that you have first understood that God is timeless and that all creation occurred first in that timelessness, that reality.

 

[ScottA]

oh, i got a better one than that; we do not know yet what we will become (which i guess does not apply to you)
i got a couple others, too, that mostly revolve around a diff interp of "it is finished," that wadr you are not authorized to declare, at least until you can prove your perspective of "it is finished," which you cannot do conclusively.

So then, if i declare "it is finished," you might well assert that you have seen the end, but that does not make it true, right

When John said, "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is", it had not yet been revealed. But now it has! Which I have revealed to you, yes, by the authority of God.

 

[ScottA]

um, aren't you the one asserting that you have seen the end, that only exists for the rest of us in "someday?"

If we prolong the day, we do so, because we do not see. But if I see, and do not give witness, I have not seen. But one who has not seen, does not know what is true, except by the spirit of God.

 

[ScottA]

well, what is "it" after all, but a so far undefined quantity that we are dealing with as if we knew, and shared a common definition of?

The definition is defined by God. What does He say of Himself? "I am."

 

[bbyrd009]

Good one..it helps me in seeing your questions..
I still think we have a way to go in bringing both sides together.

no kidding lol

 

[ScottA]

ergo they cannot change their minds in life, is that not one inescapable conclusion?

either they can or they cannot, yes? a straight logic problem here, unless someone can suggest a third option?

see, your pov does not stand up to Scripture wadr, and when your conclusions are rephrased this becomes evident imo. That time is not what we perceive it to be is surely true on some level, but nonetheless the sun just set, see, and will rise again in the morning.

Earth is our domain, and the earth is bound by time. We pray "on earth as in heaven," but we are confident, i tell you, and would rather be (wish we were) absent from the body, and present with the Lord, see, the two disciplines are not at all the same

No...I am saying it is both: It is both timeless, because history is His story. Also, that this is that timeless account revealed in the story time of what was timelessly written. But, you being in the middle of that narrative, cannot cancel out God's timelessness, just because that is your only pov. No, I am explaining both points of view.