Slaying the two witnesses

[Curtis]

Just because Moses wrote his own epitaph, does not mean he died. He also told them to not go looking for any body. Since no body was given to Satan to place in sheol, Moses could have been translated just like Enoch, or rode to heaven in the same chariot Elijah did. We were never told, "the rest of the story". It also states Moses was in perfect health. He was punished, unable to go any further into the blessings of the Promised land. He was never sentenced to die. His body was already changing on Mt. Sinai. They had to cover his face to hide the brilliance from being with God. IMO, I think Enoch and Elijah are the same person. Elijah was named as a tishbite. The word means sojourner. I think it was Enoch sent back to earth as Elijah. In fact that Elijah would come more than once. Now Jesus claimed John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, and the disciples seemed to stop wondering. We know John the Baptist was not literally Elijah.

Could it be similar in Revelation to the OT scenario given? Could John have come to this time like Enoch came as Elijah, and could the church have a similar spokesperson like Moses? Who knows? Then there was Joshua and Zerubbabel, 2 totally different named witnesses.

Moses died:
Jud 1:9 Not even the chief angel Michael did this. In his quarrel with the Devil, when they argued about who would have the body of Moses, Michael did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

Deu 34:6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.


Shalom Aleichem

 

[Oseas]

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

And the nations will be angry, and GOD's wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and GOD should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear HIS name, small and great; and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth. By the way, what is His name? Acts 4:v.12

GET READY
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and Judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Hosea 6:v.2-3
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third Day-John 2:v.19-the seventh and last millennium- He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.

3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and He shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

What sign show you unto us, seeing that you does these things? Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. The third DAY arrived, as was prophesied by Hosea centuries before Christ.

By the way, it is good to have lamp -the Word of GOD- but if someone else have not oil
it will be a waste of time to look for whoever is selling it.

Get ready

 

[David H.]

Neither Elijah or Enoch have died yet.

True, But that does not nullify what I wrote, nor does it confirm that these last two martyrs of the church age, which is what the two witnesses are literally, are in fact Enoch and Elijah. As has been mentioned here, the candlesticks are the seven churches (Revelation 1:20) The two witnesses are the last two that fulfill the number of the fifth seal of Brethren to be killed, and the fifth seal is not complete until they are killed.

John the Apostle was the only apostle NOT to be Martyred. It is said directly that he will be one of the two witnesses, let me explain this.

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Revelation 10:11)
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. (Revelation 11:1)

So did John measure a non existent temple as he was given the revelation after the destruction of the temple, Or was he translated to a future time to the future temple? There is one other person in scripture who is said to hold the measuring rod, or the plumb line and that is Zerubbabel, Let's look at the scripture for this as well.

The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. (Zechariah 4:9-10)

The foundation of the second temple was laid by Zerubbabel, "Not by power or by might, but by My Spirit" (Zechariah 4:6) Christ Jesus is the chief cornerstone of that Temple and we are the Temple Built upon that foundation (The Church). (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)

For John to measure the temple when there is none there in 90 AD is pointing to a different temple, a future temple, and for Zerubbabel to finish this Temple means that he would have to be translated to that future time as well to finish it which is built upon Christ and by His Spirit at work in the church.

People are looking for a temple built of Stone, We are the lively stones of that temple (1 Peter 2:5) Not built with Human Hands and this is where many end time scholars will miss what is to come. We should be looking for the church to be built up in the fulness of Christ as this is the end time temple. Not a Building made of Stone. With the Law written upon our hearts not on Tablets of Stone, We being the Ark of the testimony of that temple. (See the seventh trumpet, Revelation 11:19).

When you see this picture unfold before you of this Spiritual temple is when Revelation comes to life. The Whole church age begins to make sense and we get a fulness to our understanding. My Hope is that you will explore this further. Scripture tells us who the two witnesses are directly without need of speculation.

God Bless.

 

[David H.]

Neither Elijah or Enoch have died yet.

Why John is "qualified" to be a witness. Taken from Gospel Secrets Unveiled: Could the Apostle John, Be one of the two Witness mentioned in Revelation?

12 MORE REASONS WHY JOHN IS ONE OF THE TWO WITNESSES

1. WAS A FOLLOWER OF JOHN THE BAPTIST

John is the perfect person from the New Testament to be one of the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem. He believed in Christ, via John the Baptist’s teachings, before he met Christ.

2. PRESENT AT THE OLIVET DISCOURSE

Matt. 24:3 “And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

3. WAS A WITNESS AT CHRIST’S TRANSFIGURATION

Mark 9:2 “And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into a high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.”

4. WAS WITH CHRIST IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE
Matt. 26:37 “And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.”

5. MOST BELOVED OF CHRIST’S APOSTLES

John 13:23 “There was at the table reclining in Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.”

6. WAS THE ONLY ONE OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES TO WITNESS THE CRUCIFIXION

John 19:26 “When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he said unto his mother, Woman, behold your son!”

7. HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST, OF THE TWELVE, TO SEE THE EMPTY TOMB

John 20:1-2 “Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”

8. WAS A WITNESS AT CHRIST ASCENSION

Matthew 17:1-2 ”And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.”

9. WAS CAUGHT UP TO HEAVEN

Rev. 4:1 “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

10. WAS TOLD HE WOULD WITNESS AGAIN DURING THE TRIBULATION

Rev.10:11 “And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.”

11. THE ONLY APOSTLE THAT WAS NOT MARTYRED.

12. LIVED THE LONGEST OF ALL THE APOSTLES AND HIS DEATH IS NEVER RECORDED

*The Orthodox Church has always believed that John never died. John returned to Ephesus and stayed in the house of Domnus. He converted many and performed miracles. One morning, before dawn, he took some of his followers to a place to pray. Then he ordered them to dig a grave as deep as his height in the form of a cross. He had them cover him with earth to the neck. They kissed him for the last time and placed a napkin over his face, wept bitterly and then covered him entirely. Others soon after, on hearing about this, dug up his grave and found nothing.


The legend is found in "The Great Collection of The Lives of the Saints," translated from the Slavonic edition published by the Christian Print Shop of the Transfiguration Alms House in Moscow in 1914. It was translated into English by the Chrysostom Press, P.O. Box 536, House Springs, Mo. 63051 in 1994. P.441.

 

[Timtofly]

Moses died:
Jud 1:9 Not even the chief angel Michael did this. In his quarrel with the Devil, when they argued about who would have the body of Moses, Michael did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

Deu 34:6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.


Shalom Aleichem

Moses wrote that before He left to go into the wilderness. It was not written after he was gone. Only Moses and God knows what happened. Satan did not get the body of Moses, nor that of Enoch, or Elijah. The bodies of the two witnesses laying in Jerusalem, Satan cannot have them either, but Satan, is going to be bound that day, so it is pointless for Satan to do anything, and Satan knows that.


The point is not about Moses dying. The point is about whether Moses' body was changed, or returned to dust. This corruptible body is already dead. At that point, prior to the Cross, the dead were to enter sheol, or the part called Abraham's bosom. Even David called it sleeping, or the valley of the shadow of death, not death itself. Jude was talking about the satisfaction of Satan when a human succumbs to physical death, and the body returning to dust. When it came to Moses, Satan was not given that satisfaction.

Many today think those in Christ are handed back over to Satan as well, evidently. Not a very hopeful view of the resurrection in Christ. Jesus Christ claimed to be the Resurrection and the Life, even before the Cross. That is why Jude mentioned Moses. Moses was portrayed as having a body changed in mid air, like Paul taught. Translated like Enoch, who would never see his body decay. I think Moses was translated on Mt. Sinai where he was allowed to spend so much time in the presence of God. But because Moses disobeyed God, in providing water, God would not let Moses experience Life in the Promised Land. The disciples witnessed the body of Moses on the mount of Transfiguration. It was still there, just like the body of Elijah. That was before the Cross, and bodies were allowed outside of Abraham's bosom.

Paul claims this body is just temporary. There is a permanent body. So why the fuss that some bodies are preserved? Then some will claim God is going to reconstitute this temporary body. Why? There is already a permanent incorruptible one in Paradise. The claim is that Moses cannot have the same body, but all must have the same body. This does not make sense.

What you are saying is the body decayed in the desert, even though no body was ever found. Moses would not go to Abraham's bosom. Moses would not taste death, and give Satan the satisfaction. Neither did his body decay. After the Cross, we do not taste death either, though most do not grasp that means an incorruptible body immediately after the soul leaves this corruptible body. Most deny the words of Jesus, and claim all in Christ do indeed taste death. Moses did not, neither do any in Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

True, But that does not nullify what I wrote, nor does it confirm that these last two martyrs of the church age, which is what the two witnesses are literally, are in fact Enoch and Elijah. As has been mentioned here, the candlesticks are the seven churches (Revelation 1:20) The two witnesses are the last two that fulfill the number of the fifth seal of Brethren to be killed, and the fifth seal is not complete until they are killed.

John the Apostle was the only apostle NOT to be Martyred. It is said directly that he will be one of the two witnesses, let me explain this.

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Revelation 10:11)
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. (Revelation 11:1)

So did John measure a non existent temple as he was given the revelation after the destruction of the temple, Or was he translated to a future time to the future temple? There is one other person in scripture who is said to hold the measuring rod, or the plumb line and that is Zerubbabel, Let's look at the scripture for this as well.

The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. (Zechariah 4:9-10)

The foundation of the second temple was laid by Zerubbabel, "Not by power or by might, but by My Spirit" (Zechariah 4:6) Christ Jesus is the chief cornerstone of that Temple and we are the Temple Built upon that foundation (The Church). (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)

For John to measure the temple when there is none there in 90 AD is pointing to a different temple, a future temple, and for Zerubbabel to finish this Temple means that he would have to be translated to that future time as well to finish it which is built upon Christ and by His Spirit at work in the church.

People are looking for a temple built of Stone, We are the lively stones of that temple (1 Peter 2:5) Not built with Human Hands and this is where many end time scholars will miss what is to come. We should be looking for the church to be built up in the fulness of Christ as this is the end time temple. Not a Building made of Stone. With the Law written upon our hearts not on Tablets of Stone, We being the Ark of the testimony of that temple. (See the seventh trumpet, Revelation 11:19).

When you see this picture unfold before you of this Spiritual temple is when Revelation comes to life. The Whole church age begins to make sense and we get a fulness to our understanding. My Hope is that you will explore this further. Scripture tells us who the two witnesses are directly without need of speculation.

God Bless.

The problem with this is the Temple is not built until Christ is on earth. The church leaves earth at the Second Coming. The church is gone, and that is why Christ has a throne and Temple in Jerusalem.

The 5th Seal shows us, that since Abel, martyrs have been waiting to be glorified. They are glorified along with the whole church. But the glorified church in Paradise, still has to wait in Paradise until the end of the final harvest going on, on the earth. The church is not waiting to be glorified. The church is waiting after being glorified until all of Adam's flesh and blood are dealt with. All humanity will be harvested. That is the point of waiting of the 5th Seal. The 6th Seal is the Second Coming of Christ to complete the final harvest. The 7th Trumpet is the completion of the final harvest.

 

[David H.]

The problem with this is the Temple is not built until Christ is on earth. The church leaves earth at the Second Coming. The church is gone, and that is why Christ has a throne and Temple in Jerusalem.

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Revelation 11:19)

We, The church are the temple and the ark of the testament, and At the seventh trumpet We are seen in heaven. When Christ comes down to earth he stands on the mount of Olives and splits it in two (Zechariah 14:4) Heaven is his Throne, and the earth His footstool (Isaiah 66:1, Acts of the Apostles 7:49).

 

[6 Stories]

Two different time frames. The 144k are on earth at a different time the 2 witnesses are. The 2 witnesses may be present during the final harvest, but the 144k are in the final harvest with Jesus Christ. The 2 witnesses are in Jerusalem for 42 months, while the 144k are on Holy mount Zion. The 144k are literal and explained. The 2 witnesses are literal and described with symbolism. They are not the symbolism itself. John did not say 2 candlesticks are the two witnesses. Then go on to explain what the two candlesticks are. John never explains the symbolism. Many try to explain the symbolism. Since obviously many add to the thoughts John does give, and none of them agree with each other, only when it actually happens will it make sense, why the symbolism was not explained.

Even in the OT the 2 olive trees and the 1 candlestick, could be 2 Israelites, but not 1 church member. It was Christ Himself. It could be there are 4 witnesses. The candlesticks are still 2 church members in Christ. But 2 or 4 does not symbolize the entire church body, nor Israelite nation. Still only 2 or 4 total witnesses as relates to either reference. And the two witnesses in the OT reference were named. It was not the split kingdom. Still trying to turn the number into a multitude. The 2 witnesses were taken out of the multitude for a particular purpose. Even John, the author of the book of Revelation was a literal witness throughout the book, and was also, both from the OT as an Israelite, and part of the NT church. He was both an olive tree, and a candlestick as you pointed out.

The candlesticks did represent the 7 churches, so there is some explanation. Still does not mean 2 should indicate an undefined amount. That is the issue with 1000 in Revelation 20. Making 2 and 1000 anything other than 2 and 1000, is a private interpretation.

Regarding the time frames:
Rev 7:1-8:5 is a complete story that can be compared with other complete stories in the Revelation.
The 144,000 become Christians (sealed) before the final world empire is blown in by the 4 winds. Rev 7:1-8, Dan 7:2-3.
The spirits of all Christians who will die during the period of great tribulation are shown in heaven in Rev 7:9-17.
Just after the great tribulation, there is silence in heaven. Rev 8:1. Why? The 24 elders are not singing.
The 24 elders sing the song of the redeemed. The 1st song Rev 4:11, redemption from sin comes as a result of creation. See Rom 1:19-20.
The 2nd redemption from sin song comes as a result of Jesus' substitutionary death for mankind in Rev 5:9.
The 3rd redemption song is found in Rev 14:3. The 144,000 were already redeemed from sin in Rev 7. Here, they are in heaven, redeemed not from sin, but from the earth. They are the only people at this time to be redeemed from the earth. That is, they are the only people to exist as Jesus; dead, resurrected, and ascended. That is why they are the only people who can sing this redemption song. It is my opinion that the elders in heaven stopped singing the 2nd redemption song during a 30 minute ascension into heaven by these 144,000, causing the silence of Rev 8:1.
This story ends with the wrath of God in Rev 8:5. All of the stories end with the wrath of God.

Rev 8:6-11:19 is a complete story that can be compared with other complete stories in the Revelation.
The 2 witnesses minister for the last half of Daniel's 70th week, 1,260 days. The death of these 2 ends the period of great tribulation and ends Daniel's 70th week. Since these are the last who will die during the great tribulation, their spirits will be among those seen in Rev 7:9-17. The time frames are the same! The 2 witnesses are redeemed from the earth. If these are different than the 144,000, why couldn't they learn the redemption from the earth song when they were resurrected? This story ends with the wrath of God in Rev 11:18-19.

Rev 12:7-14:20 is a complete story that can be compare with other complete stories in the Revelation.
The period of great tribulation, the last 42 months or 1,260 days of Daniel's 70th week is shown in Rev 13. After these 42 months, the 144,000 are shown in heaven, being redeemed not from sin, but redeemed from the earth. The same time frame as the 2 witnesses were redeemed from the earth. These are the first fruits of the harvest. The rest of the harvest comes later in the 14th chapter of Revelation, along with the wrath of God which ends this story.

The number 2 is not symbolic.
7 candlesticks = 7 churches - therefore,
2 candlesticks = 2 churches.
We are not told how many people are in the 7 churches, but we can deduce that the 2 churches include these 144,000 people.

 

[Oseas]

I agree with everything from these scholars except that they are only 2 men.
If the book of Revelation has revealed that 7 candlesticks are symbolic of 7 churches, to me, it naturally follows that 2 candlesticks are symbolic of 2 churches.

Your interpretation is correct and TRUE. 2 candlesticks are two Churches really;
(1) The Church of the Gentile believers /true Christians;
(2) the Jewish Church - Heb.12:v.18-29

But the two WITNESSES are not only 2 candlesticks - two Churches - which testifie of the Word of GOD, and both will Judge the Word; They are ALSO the two OLIVE TREES; The two OLIVE TREES are the SOURCE OF OIL, yeah, the SOURCE OF OIL for the TWO candlesticks -the two Churches- , they ARE the Persons of JESUS and of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete or Counselor , they both are the TWO LIVE TREES and the SOURCE of OIL for the two Churches.

In this last DECADE of the world of Devil, the COURT, yeah, the COURT which is without the temple will be given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months -Rev.11:v.2- the FIRST HALF of the last week of Daniel 9:v.27 which WILL BE RULED BY THE BEAST OF SEA- REV.13:VERSE 5 -

5 And there was given unto him (unto the Beast of sea) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and *POWER was given unto him to continue forty and two months -THAT IS the FIRST HALF of the last week of Daniel 9:v.27. *POWER was given unto him by the DRAGON, who is the esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah of the Jews, who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will BE ENTHRONED in the temple of God-in JERUSALEM, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt-, shewing himself that he is God, AND the FALSE MESSIAH will give not only his POWER to the Beast of sea, BUT ALSO HIS THRONE AND GREAT AUTHORITY.

Do not have any doubt that the Beast of sea, the next Pope to be elected after death of Pope Francis from now on, which will take a pseudo-name or nickname as being the SEVENTH of a lineage of Pope, as seventh king of that lineage, yeah, THAT ELECTED NEW AND LAST POPE WILL SIT ON THE THRONE OF THE DRAGON IN JERUSALEM with great Power and Authority given by the Devil, the Drago, the Jewish false messiah. THIS WILL BE THE STRONG DELUSION -2 Thes.2:v.11-12

Be shure that the plagues are underway, the earth is and will be smited with strong and severe plagues, and the waters - peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues - is and will be turned to blood, the heaven is shut, he that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still, no more salvation, no, no more, but GOD's wrath will fall upon all the nations, and they will be cast into the hell's fire from now on.

Revelation 2:v.26-29
26 - He that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the END, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


After the END of these things will come the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION - the 2nd HALF OF THE LAST WEEK that will be ruled by the ruthless and ESOTERIC, AND KABBALISTIC, AND SPIRITIST Jewish FALSE MESSIAH -2Thessalonians 2


Isaiah 26:v.21-22

20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[6 Stories]

Actually, since time is the fourth dimension, and almighty God can fully control all the dimensions and transcend time, God could easily remove them from their timeline, and drop them right into the tribulation timeline.

Are there any types or shadows of dropping someone into a new dimension?

I guess he could, but to me, the clues lead in another direction.

 

[6 Stories]

Your interpretation is correct and TRUE. 2 candlesticks are two Churches really;
(1) The Church of the Gentile believers /true Christians;
(2) the Jewish Church - Heb.12:v.18-29

Thanks for backing me that the 2 candlesticks are 2 churches. It is my opinion that these 2 churches are geographic in nature just as were the 7 churches.
My best guess is that there will be 1 church in Israel north of Jerusalem and 1 church in Israel south of Jerusalem.

But the two WITNESSES are not only 2 candlesticks - two Churches - which testifie of the Word of GOD, and both will Judge the Word; They are ALSO the two OLIVE TREES; The two OLIVE TREES are the SOURCE OF OIL, yeah, the SOURCE OF OIL for the TWO candlesticks -the two Churches- , they ARE the Persons of JESUS and of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete or Counselor , they both are the TWO LIVE TREES and the SOURCE of OIL for the two Churches.

Yes, these 2 churches with 144,000 Jewish males will abide in Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Your other comments were outside of the scope of the 2 witnesses, so I have not answered them.

 

[6 Stories]

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming of Christ to complete the final harvest. The 7th Trumpet is the completion of the final harvest.

The final harvest shown in 2 different places. I like it!

 

[Oseas]

Revelation 11:v.15 -
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD (the current Devil's world) are become the KINGDOMS of our Lord, and of His Christ (kingdoms of only true Christians - the NEXT *WORLD, understand?); and He shall reign for ever and ever.


JESUS left very clear: Luke 20:v.35-36 and 13:v.24-25
35 But they which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that *WORLD (the Kingdom of GOD-the THIRD HEAVEN PLACE IN CHRIST JESUS), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door,...

 

[Curtis]

Why John is "qualified" to be a witness. Taken from Gospel Secrets Unveiled: Could the Apostle John, Be one of the two Witness mentioned in Revelation?

12 MORE REASONS WHY JOHN IS ONE OF THE TWO WITNESSES

1. WAS A FOLLOWER OF JOHN THE BAPTIST

John is the perfect person from the New Testament to be one of the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem. He believed in Christ, via John the Baptist’s teachings, before he met Christ.

2. PRESENT AT THE OLIVET DISCOURSE

Matt. 24:3 “And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

3. WAS A WITNESS AT CHRIST’S TRANSFIGURATION

Mark 9:2 “And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into a high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.”

4. WAS WITH CHRIST IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE
Matt. 26:37 “And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.”

5. MOST BELOVED OF CHRIST’S APOSTLES

John 13:23 “There was at the table reclining in Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.”

6. WAS THE ONLY ONE OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES TO WITNESS THE CRUCIFIXION

John 19:26 “When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he said unto his mother, Woman, behold your son!”

7. HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST, OF THE TWELVE, TO SEE THE EMPTY TOMB

John 20:1-2 “Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”

8. WAS A WITNESS AT CHRIST ASCENSION

Matthew 17:1-2 ”And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.”

9. WAS CAUGHT UP TO HEAVEN

Rev. 4:1 “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

10. WAS TOLD HE WOULD WITNESS AGAIN DURING THE TRIBULATION

Rev.10:11 “And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.”

11. THE ONLY APOSTLE THAT WAS NOT MARTYRED.

12. LIVED THE LONGEST OF ALL THE APOSTLES AND HIS DEATH IS NEVER RECORDED

*The Orthodox Church has always believed that John never died. John returned to Ephesus and stayed in the house of Domnus. He converted many and performed miracles. One morning, before dawn, he took some of his followers to a place to pray. Then he ordered them to dig a grave as deep as his height in the form of a cross. He had them cover him with earth to the neck. They kissed him for the last time and placed a napkin over his face, wept bitterly and then covered him entirely. Others soon after, on hearing about this, dug up his grave and found nothing.


The legend is found in "The Great Collection of The Lives of the Saints," translated from the Slavonic edition published by the Christian Print Shop of the Transfiguration Alms House in Moscow in 1914. It was translated into English by the Chrysostom Press, P.O. Box 536, House Springs, Mo. 63051 in 1994. P.441.

But it’s the unbelieving Jews who are still wanting to keep the old covenant, which requires rebuilding the temple for animal sacrifice. who build a literal third temple, which the false messiah they accept as genuine, goes into and declares himself God.

Jesus warned that when that happens THOSE IN JUDEA need to flee

It has nothing to do with our bodies being the temple of the Holy Spirit.

And the majority of Christians don’t live in a Judea. either.

I still believe that God didn’t take two prophets in to heaven alive, just to make a great Sunday school lesson for kidsm- but for the specific purpose of being the two witnesses- and I see in scripture a mid trib rapture wherein the age of the gentiles is over, so they aren’t part of the church age at all, but part of the time of Jacobs trouble where Israel has to suffer at the hands of the false messiah they accept as genuine.


Maranatha

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible never identifies who the 2 witnesses are or even gives a clue about their identities. If someone tries to act like they know, they are lying and being presumptuous. Moses and Elijah are in their graves waiting for Christ's return, so it's definitely not them.

Elijah never saw a physical death as you falsely teach and claim

2 Kings 2:11KJV
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

[Truth7t7]

I still believe that God didn’t take two prophets in to heaven alive, just to make a great Sunday school lesson for kidsm- but for the specific purpose of being the two witnesses- and I see in scripture a mid trib rapture wherein the age of the gentiles is over, so they aren’t part of the church age at all, but part of the time of Jacobs trouble where Israel has to suffer at the hands of the false messiah they accept as genuine.

Maranatha

Just like the plagues of Egypt, parting the red sea, Jesus feeding the multitudes, walking on water, and healing the blind were all kidsm toooooooo

2 Kings 2:11KJV
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

[Curtis]

Just like the plagues of Egypt, parting the red sea, Jesus feeding the multitudes, walking on water, and healing the blind were all kidsm toooooooo

2 Kings 2:11KJV
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Was there a point there?

 

[6 Stories]

Revelation 11:v.15 -
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD (the current Devil's world) are become the KINGDOMS of our Lord, and of His Christ (kingdoms of only true Christians - the NEXT *WORLD, understand?); and He shall reign for ever and ever.

Not the NEXT WORLD. Still this world, but at this time Jesus and not Satan will be in charge.

JESUS left very clear: Luke 20:v.35-36 and 13:v.24-25

35 But they which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that *WORLD (the Kingdom of GOD-the THIRD HEAVEN PLACE IN CHRIST JESUS), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door,...

That WORLD (members of the third heaven) will come to this world.

 

[6 Stories]

The two witnesses are the last two saints of the church age left alive. The word Witnesses is Martys in the Greek, the same word used to describe the saints who overcome Satan, The same ones who are persecuted in the fifth seal..... We are all witnesses, in that respect, but the two witnesses are the last two saints left standing in the end.

Like John the Baptist, who was just first century man, so too will the two witnesses be. And like John they will be empowered by the spirits of the Prophets of Old, With John the Baptist being empowered by the spirit of Elijah.

Of the Original apostles, Only John did not suffer a martyrs death, dying in His Old Age. His spirit will be one that empowers one of the two witnesses. The Other is likely Elijah, Or Zerubbabel As Per Scripture. The transition from Revelation 10 to Revelation 11 will tell you John Is one of the two witnesses. Scripture also tells us Elijah will precede the coming of the King, and Zerubbabel is also said to the Signet of His coming. (Malachi 4:5-6, Haggai 2:22-23). All that aside, the two witnesses will be humans who are alive during the end time not reincarnated historical figures, and these men will be empowered by the Spirit of John, Zerubbabel, and Elijah. It is my Opinion that the coming of Elijah is specific for the Jewish People and He is not one of the two witnesses for this reason as his ministry comes after the church age ends.

"but the two witnesses are the last two saints left standing in the end."

I completely agree. Aren't the last two witnesses on earth the first two redeemed from the earth?

The first saints redeemed from the earth and found in heaven are in Rev 14:1-5. (First fruits)
"1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

It is my opinion that the bodies of rest of the resurrected martyrs, those "redeemed from the earth," meet Jesus in the air and not on heavenly mount Sion. This occurs in Rev 14:14-16 ( Full harvest)
"14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped."

There is only 1 group resurrected with body and spirit together. The rest of the spirits of the redeemed follow Jesus to unite with their resurrected bodies in the air, as Jesus comes to earth. This 1 group is the 144,000. Isn't it also the 2 witnesses?

 

[michaelvpardo]

@Naomi25 In the end it's good to read Scripture and accept a balance of plain statements; rather than theorize in too abstract a manner - which might seem attractive to those schooled in logic, but does not necessarily accord with the plain statements of Scripture.

We aren't called to "theorize " on scripture, but are actually admonished not to go beyond what is written. The evil imagination of man is readily capable of corrupting truth and does, as evidenced by the thousands of "Christian " cults who all believe that they alone understand the truth.