So....The New Earth and Heaven

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, daq.

The Kingdom of Heaven is within you even if you are an inmate:

Luke 17:20-21 KJV
20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Paul was likewise a prisoner and in chains for Messiah yet look what he states:

2 Corinthians 5:14-17 KJV
14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15. And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Does that final statement not sound familiar? "Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new!" . . .

Revelation 21:3-5 KJV
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

What then is the Holy City? She is like the clothing which God has provided for the saints. She is what it means to be clothed from on high and for the sons of God to be cast about or "tented" with the Tabernacle of God. This is part of the meaning in the Jeremiah 31 New Covenant where he states: "The Lord hath created a new thing in the earth, a nqebah-female shall compass a geber-warrior-man" (Jeremiah 31:22). My mother is Jerusalem cast about in gold, and silver, and brass, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins. Her strength is like the myrtles and willows that stand beside the brook, her frame is of acacia wood, she has the pure oil olive for the light, spices with anointing oil, sweet incense, and all the holy tamiyd-continual things which are written. And my bride is of the daughters of Jerusalem; in the latter days every true geber-warrior-man of the Spirit will consider it.

Galatians 4:22-27 KJV
22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27. For it is written, (Isaiah 54:1) Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Isaiah 54:1-3 KJV
1. Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.
2. Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3. For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Sorry, bro', but that's too much "spiritualization" or "allegorizing." It's a literal city with literal foundations.

I get so sick and tired of the misinterpretation of Luke 17:20-21! That is NOT what Yeshua` was talking about! The Greek word "entos" CAN mean "within," but not in this context! Here, the word should have been translated "among."

First, Yeshua` was talking to the P'rushiym (Pharisees). Would you really expect Yeshua` to say that the Kingdom of heaven is "within" THEM?!

Second, the word translated "you" is the Greek word "humoon" (using the "oo" for omega), and it's a PLURAL second-person word.

This is one reason why the KJV is still the better translation of Scripture. The "thee's" and "thou's" are SINGULAR and the "ye's" and "you's" are plural in the KJV. Modern versions, like the NIV, the NASB, and even the NKJV, LOSE that information in translation! Greek had singular and plural forms of the second-person pronoun, and the English of the 1600's could convey that information. Most modern versions are trying to get RID of the "thee's" and "thou's" but they are INFORMATION that once lost is difficult to regain without going to the original languages! They are prey to the "dumbing down" of English!

Yeshua` was not talking to an individual or individuals; He was talking to the GROUP of P'rushiym! He was telling them that the Kingdom wasn't going to come from "Heaven" with a lot of pomp and circumstance! HE WAS ALREADY THERE AMONG THEM! HE was the embodiment of the Kingdom, because HE was the KING!!!

THAT'S what He was telling them!

Now, Paul, too, was NOT saying what you think he was saying! He wasn't talking about "knowing Christ" in a physical way as opposed to a "spiritual" way! He was talking about the fact that the Messiah ISN'T HERE ON EARTH ANYMORE RIGHT NOW!

2 Corinthians 5:16
16 Hooste heemeis apo tou nun oudena oidamen kata sarka; ei kai egnookamen kata sarka Christon, nun ouketi ginooskomen.
Greek New Testament

16 Hooste= 16 So-likewise/therefore
heemeis = we
apo = away-from
tou = the
nun = now/present
oudena = no-one
oidamen = we-see
kata = according-to
sarka; = flesh;
ei = if
kai = and/also
egnookamen = we-have-known
kata = according-to
sarka = flesh
Christon, = Messiah,
nun = now
ouketi = no-longer
ginooskomen. = we-are-knowing.

16 So-likewise/therefore we away-from the now/present no-one we-see according-to flesh; if and/also we-have-known according-to flesh Messiah, now no-longer we-are-knowing.


16 Therefore from now on, we see no one according to flesh; though we have known Messiah according to flesh, we are no longer knowing now.

Paul is simply saying that the disciples can no longer approach Him physically and talk with Him ... for now. More importantly, OTHERS can't physically approach Him and learn from Him, as the disciples once did. That is why we are "in the stead of the Messiah" - "in the place/position of the Messiah" - to show them how to exchange places with the Messiah and be justified by God, receiving God's righteousness. This chapter of the Bible is all about the GREAT EXCHANGE!

Now, not everything in Galatians 4:22-27 is allegorical. The part that is an "allegory" is the bond-woman/free-woman analogy which represents the two covenants. And, the two covenants are named by their respective origins: The First Covenant - the Mosaic Covenant, as it is called - was from Har Sinai in the wilderness. The Second Covenant - the New Covenant - was from Har Tsiown (Mount Zion) upon which Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) currently sits. It is NOT talking about the New Jerusalem! That Greek word is "anoo" not "epi." It's not talking about "Jerusalem above" but the "Jerusalem UPON!"

 

[Warrior]

I see when John is talking about New Jerusalem, and it Is written there is no night THERE..I don't see anything that says there is no night cycles when the new earth itself exists.

Does anyone have some scripture?

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Inmate and ChristRoseFromTheDead.

What about Night time?? The Bible talks about No night There (new Jerusalem) But it doesn't say there will be no more night for eternity across the whole earth.

I think there will be no night only in new Jerusalem.

I see when John is talking about New Jerusalem, and it Is written there is no night THERE..I don't see anything that says there is no night cycles when the new earth itself exists.

Does anyone have some scripture?

You are both correct. There is no night WITHIN the New Jerusalem (Greek: Hierousaleem Kaineen; Hebrew: Yerushalayim Chadashah).

Here's some Scriptures that can help:

Psalm 89:19-37
19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
KJV

Psalm 136:1-9
1 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.
3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.
4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.
5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.
6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.
7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.
KJV

Ecclesiastes 1:1-7
1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
KJV

And, my personal favorite:

Isaiah 24:23
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
KJV

This is AWESOME! The words translated "confounded" and "ashamed" were translated with personification. The words simply mean that the moon shall be "mixed up" in its phases and the sun shall be "outdone." When one considers the New Jerusalem landed upon the New Earth with the Light so bright that it outdoes the sun, the moon shall have TWO sources of light to reflect upon its surface and the phases of the moon will be STRANGE phases no one has ever seen before, like half-gibbous, half-crescent, and the overlapping of the two, as it stands between, reflecting both the sun and the New Jerusalem!

 

[Warrior]

thanks for the scripture. I have another thought and question.....Now Ive done some study about The millennium reign of Christ, I heard that the Raptured Saints (Glorified Bodies) will not have children, but the martyred saints who made it out of the tribulation will have the children. This upsets me because I always wanted to be married and possible have kids.

When The New Earth is established and everything is finally at 100% peace, Will the human race continue??? Or will everyone grow up and everyone is adults?? Im so confused about this

 

[daq]

Shalom, daq.


Sorry, bro', but that's too much "spiritualization" or "allegorizing." It's a literal city with literal foundations.

I get so sick and tired of the misinterpretation of Luke 17:20-21! That is NOT what Yeshua` was talking about! The Greek word "entos" CAN mean "within," but not in this context! Here, the word should have been translated "among."

First, Yeshua` was talking to the P'rushiym (Pharisees). Would you really expect Yeshua` to say that the Kingdom of heaven is "within" THEM?!

Second, the word translated "you" is the Greek word "humoon" (using the "oo" for omega), and it's a PLURAL second-person word.

This is one reason why the KJV is still the better translation of Scripture. The "thee's" and "thou's" are SINGULAR and the "ye's" and "you's" are plural in the KJV. Modern versions, like the NIV, the NASB, and even the NKJV, LOSE that information in translation! Greek had singular and plural forms of the second-person pronoun, and the English of the 1600's could convey that information. Most modern versions are trying to get RID of the "thee's" and "thou's" but they are INFORMATION that once lost is difficult to regain without going to the original languages! They are prey to the "dumbing down" of English!

Yeshua` was not talking to an individual or individuals; He was talking to the GROUP of P'rushiym! He was telling them that the Kingdom wasn't going to come from "Heaven" with a lot of pomp and circumstance! HE WAS ALREADY THERE AMONG THEM! HE was the embodiment of the Kingdom, because HE was the KING!!!

THAT'S what He was telling them!

Now, Paul, too, was NOT saying what you think he was saying! He wasn't talking about "knowing Christ" in a physical way as opposed to a "spiritual" way! He was talking about the fact that the Messiah ISN'T HERE ON EARTH ANYMORE RIGHT NOW!

2 Corinthians 5:16
16 Hooste heemeis apo tou nun oudena oidamen kata sarka; ei kai egnookamen kata sarka Christon, nun ouketi ginooskomen.
Greek New Testament

16 Hooste= 16 So-likewise/therefore
heemeis = we
apo = away-from
tou = the
nun = now/present
oudena = no-one
oidamen = we-see
kata = according-to
sarka; = flesh;
ei = if
kai = and/also
egnookamen = we-have-known
kata = according-to
sarka = flesh
Christon, = Messiah,
nun = now
ouketi = no-longer
ginooskomen. = we-are-knowing.

16 So-likewise/therefore we away-from the now/present no-one we-see according-to flesh; if and/also we-have-known according-to flesh Messiah, now no-longer we-are-knowing.


16 Therefore from now on, we see no one according to flesh; though we have known Messiah according to flesh, we are no longer knowing now.

Paul is simply saying that the disciples can no longer approach Him physically and talk with Him ... for now. More importantly, OTHERS can't physically approach Him and learn from Him, as the disciples once did. That is why we are "in the stead of the Messiah" - "in the place/position of the Messiah" - to show them how to exchange places with the Messiah and be justified by God, receiving God's righteousness. This chapter of the Bible is all about the GREAT EXCHANGE!

Now, not everything in Galatians 4:22-27 is allegorical. The part that is an "allegory" is the bond-woman/free-woman analogy which represents the two covenants. And, the two covenants are named by their respective origins: The First Covenant - the Mosaic Covenant, as it is called - was from Har Sinai in the wilderness. The Second Covenant - the New Covenant - was from Har Tsiown (Mount Zion) upon which Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) currently sits. It is NOT talking about the New Jerusalem! That Greek word is "anoo" not "epi." It's not talking about "Jerusalem above" but the "Jerusalem UPON!"

You already lost this argument but refuse the Scripture and clear Doctrine of Messiah:

Also it does not matter to whom the Master speaks directly in the passage, (i.e. the Pharisees) because the Gospel accounts are written by apostles and disciples to the entire congregation-ekklesia and that includes the account from Luke irrespective of to whom it is addressed, ("Theophilus"). In addition you are attempting to force the Luke passage to say something that it does not say so as to enforce your own paradigm of a physical fleshly kingdom of God upon the physical world-wide planet earth, ruling a physical empire of fleshly kingdoms, over what I can only imagine you must think of as the "lesser-brethren millennial sheeples", (was that not already attempted in the middle of the last century?). The Luke passage clearly disputes what you profess because Yeshua tells them that the kingdom of God does not come with observation and neither shall they say, "See here! or, see there!", "Look here! or, look there!" As stated time and again already in this thread: "For the kingdom of God is inside you", (GSN#1787 entos). If you desire to prove your point that the kingdom of God is all around us and in our midst then you have an alternative passage which you have either not recognized, neglected, or ignored in making your case. However, it does not read "entos" (inside) but rather "mesos" (midst).
AGAIN:

Luke 17:20-21 KJV
20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within [GSN#1787 entos] you.

Original Strong's Ref. #1787
Romanized entos
Pronounced en-tos'
from GSN1722; inside (adverb or noun):
KJV--within.

Matthew 18:19-20 KJV
19. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst [GSN#3319 mesos] of them.

Original Strong's Ref. #3319
Romanized mesos
Pronounced mes'-os
from GSN3326; middle (as an adjective or [neuter] noun):
KJV--among, X before them, between, + forth, mid[-day, -night], midst, way.

Your argument requires changing the definitions of words to suit your paradigm. No thanks ...

Again, I choose the Word over your changing of the definitions of words. No thanks . . .

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, daq.

You already lost this argument but refuse the Scripture and clear Doctrine of Messiah:



Again, I choose the Word over your changing of the definitions of words. No thanks . . .

I didn't lose the argument then or now. It was and is YOU who refuses to see the obvious! How could Yeshua` be telling the P'rushiym that the Kingdom of God is WITHIN THEM?!

The clear "Doctrine of Messiah" is that HE IS THE KING AND THEREFORE THE HOPE FOR ANY FUTURE KINGDOM! That's what He was trying to teach these bull-headed bone-heads!

And, I didn't have to "change the definitions of words." Can't "entos" mean "among?" It not only can but DOES, particularly in this context! Just because He wasn't said to have used YOUR choice of "mesos" doesn't mean that He didn't mean He was standing right there in the middle of them - "WITHIN" their group - "AMONG" them!

Just because you like to use this passage to bolster your argument that "the Kingdom is invisible and within the hearts of believers" doesn't mean that the passage should be interpreted that way! They are NOT the right verses to use for such an argument!

Frankly, the Kingdom of God IS NOT HERE! It is NOT to be found on this earth, visibly or invisibly! Not until the Messiah returns as King of Y'hudah and become King of Isra'el will the Kingdom be established here on earth! You and I may indeed be future subjects of that Kingdom, but IT'S NOT HERE, YET!

When the King is here, the Kingdom will be here; while the King is away, so is the Kingdom!

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

Actually, Retro go it right. There is 1000 years, then the judgemnet, after that a literal New Heavens and New Earth is creation after this one is distroyed. Essentially God will pick off where we left of in the Garden when we sinned. Whatever orginial plan God had for mankind will then be carried out.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When the King is here, the Kingdom will be here; while the King is away, so is the Kingdom!

Yet the king in heaven dwells within his subjects (his body) on earth.

Thus saith the LORD, heaven [is] my throne, and earth [is] my footstool ... Isaiah 66:1

 

[daq]

Dear All,

Actually, Retro go it right. There is 1000 years, then the judgemnet, after that a literal New Heavens and New Earth is creation after this one is distroyed. Essentially God will pick off where we left of in the Garden when we sinned. Whatever orginial plan God had for mankind will then be carried out.

Blessings,

Justin

Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, [supernal] that they may be as frontlets between your eyes [supernal].
19. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, [supernal] and upon thy gates: [supernal]
21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

The Elohim of Israel appeared pa`amiym-twice times unto Solomon:

1 Kings 11:6-9 KJV
6. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father.
7. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
9. And the Lord was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the Lord God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, [pa`amiym]

This caused "the Preacher" to know of a thousand years pa`amiym-twice told:

Ecclesiastes 6:1-6 KJV
1. There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men:
2. A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.
3. If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.
4. For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness.
5. Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other.
6. Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, [pa`amiym] yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Are you and Retrobyter wiser than the Preacher, Solomon, or the Scripture? I trow not! :lol:

 

[ENOCH2010]

daq might have something to add to this forum if someone could interpret his unknown tongue. I can't understand his allegorical thinking for everything in the Word. Is it just me, or do more of you all have a hard time following him?

 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Enoch.

daq might have something to add to this forum if someone could interpret his unknown tongue. I can't understand his allegorical thinking for everything in the Word. Is it just me, or do more of you all have a hard time following him?

No, it's not just you. That's the problem with allegorical thinking; it's at the WHIM of the allegorical thinker! It's just like the prophecies of Madeleine Murray O'Hare or Nostradamus. The wording becomes so NEBULOUS that it can mean anything that the allegorical thinker WANTS it to mean! It simply depends on what the allegorical thinker is trying to say from moment to moment! If the Scripture is close enough, he can let it (MAKE it) apply (whether it does in context or not).

While I like some of the things that daq says, his allegorical approach to Scripture negates the positive so many times.
_____

Shalom, ChristRoseFromTheDead.

Yet the king in heaven dwells within his subjects (his body) on earth.

Thus saith the LORD, heaven [is] my throne, and earth [is] my footstool ... Isaiah 66:1

Book, chapter and verse, please. What YOU quoted were the words of YHWH, God, the Father of our Lord and Messiah Yeshua`. Stick to the Scriptures and don't rely on theology.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

daq might have something to add to this forum if someone could interpret his unknown tongue. I can't understand his allegorical thinking for everything in the Word. Is it just me, or do more of you all have a hard time following him?

He just makes up whatever nonsense he wants. Makes him feel special, I guess.

Book, chapter and verse, please. What YOU quoted were the words of YHWH, God, the Father of our Lord and Messiah Yeshua`. Stick to the Scriptures and don't rely on theology.

Yet the son wields all of YHWH's authority in heaven (throne) and upon earth (footstool).

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All authority was given to me in heaven and upon earth. Matthew 28:18

 

[Pelaides]

Yeah. Daq is a deep thinker,you have to pay close attention when he writes something.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, daq.




Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, [supernal] that they may be as frontlets between your eyes [supernal].
19. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, [supernal] and upon thy gates: [supernal]
21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

The Elohim of Israel appeared pa`amiym-twice times unto Solomon:

1 Kings 11:6-9 KJV
6. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father.
7. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
9. And the Lord was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the Lord God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, [pa`amiym]

This caused "the Preacher" to know of a thousand years pa`amiym-twice told:

Ecclesiastes 6:1-6 KJV
1. There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men:
2. A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.
3. If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.
4. For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness.
5. Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other.
6. Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, [pa`amiym] yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Are you and Retrobyter wiser than the Preacher, Solomon, or the Scripture? I trow not! :lol:
Let's take a look at each of these passages:

Deuteronomy 11:18 is first talking about phylacteries. I trust you know what they are. The orthodox Jews still wear them today, and though some only wear them on certain occasions, most wear them EVERY DAY, usually when they make the conscious effort to pray. One of my good friends (who I haven't seen for some time), Daveed, wore them often and taught me how they were donned.

Second, verse 20 is talking about mezuzahs - boxes that are tacked to the door posts and gates of a person's house with memory verses within them to constantly remind them of their importance when they enter or exit though that doorway or gate. Most Jews will touch their fingers to their lips and then to the mezuzah as a sign of respect and love for God.

These things are NOT "supernal" but are LITERAL and PHYSICAL!

Third, I find it very interesting (and telling) how you quoted 18-21, but neglected verses 1 and 13 which are the words that one should remember:

Deuteronomy 11:1-17
1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
2 And know ye this day: for I speak not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand, and his stretched out arm,
3 And his miracles, and his acts, which he did in the midst of Egypt unto Pharaoh the king of Egypt, and unto all his land;
4 And what he did unto the army of Egypt, unto their horses, and to their chariots; how he made the water of the Red sea to overflow them as they pursued after you, and how the Lord hath destroyed them unto this day;
5 And what he did unto you in the wilderness, until ye came into this place;
6 And what he did unto Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, the son of Reuben: how the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and their tents, and all the substance that was in their possession, in the midst of all Israel:
7 But your eyes have seen all the great acts of the LORD which he did.
8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;
9 And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
10 For the land, whither thou goest in to possess it, is not as the land of Egypt, from whence ye came out, where thou sowedst thy seed, and wateredst it with thy foot, as a garden of herbs:
11 But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven:
12 A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.
13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.
16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
17 And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
KJV

THESE are the words that were stored in both phylacteries and in mezuzahs!

Obviously, you are trying to fabricate a link between the other two passages, 1 Kings 11:6-9 and Ecclesiastes 6:1-6, simply because the two passages use the same Hebrew word, pa`amaayim. That's a BAD idea because it doesn't work. The word comes from "pa`am" which means a "stroke" and it is the DUAL ENDING "-aayim" that gives it the meaning of "second." The word itself is fairly common having occurred 118 times in the OT, although not as often with the dual ending. (Hebrew has a singular, dual, and plural form to its words, not just singular and plural like English has. One most often finds this in words that occur in pairs, such as body parts: eyes, ears, arms, legs, etc.) It was used in Genesis 27:36; 41:32; 43:10; Numbers 20:11, and the list goes on. You wouldn't try to link these verses with Esav (Esau) saying that Ya`aqov (Jacob) tricked him "twice" or Moses struck the rock "twice," would you?

Lastly, "trow" is related to these other English words still in use: think, thought, trust, and true. It's like "grow" is to "grew," and "know" is to "knew," when spelling was less strict and more subjective. Have you ever pondered on the meanings of "true" and how it relates to "trust?" For instance, "true" can mean "sound" as in the quality of a piece of wood. Also, "true" can be a verb as well as an adjective; "to true" means "to make straight" or "to make right." The English language hasn't become worse; the English USERS have become less knowledgeable about the language!
_____

Shalom, ChristRoseFromTheDead.

.....

Yet the son wields all of YHWH's authority in heaven (throne) and upon earth (footstool).

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All authority was given to me in heaven and upon earth. Matthew 28:18

Hmmm.... Yet, Yeshua` never equated Himself with YHWH. YHWH was always His "Father," and He was always "the SON." He was occasionally called "the Son of God," but He almost always called Himself "the Son of man," which means a "Son of Adam" or a true "human being."

Here's another instance when it becomes important how you render the Greek word "ouranos." Here's the Greek of Matthew 28:18:

Kata Maththaion 28:18
18 Kai proselthoon ho Ieesous elaleesen autois legoon, "Edothee moi pasa exousia en ouranoo kai epi tees gees."
Greek New Testament

18 Kai = 18 And/also (conjunction/adverb)
proselthoon = coming (second aorist active participle)
ho = the (definite article adjective)
Ieesous = Yeshua`/Jesus (proper noun)
elaleesen = spoke (aorist active indicative verb)
autois = to-them (indirect object)
legoon, = saying, (present active participle)
"Edothee = "Is-given (aorist passive indicative verb)
moi = to-me (reflexive pronoun)
pasa = all/every (superlative adjective)
exousia = right/privilege/authority (subject noun)
en = in (preposition)
ouranoo = the-sky/heaven (object noun of preposition)
kai = and (conjunction)
epi = upon/over/above/against (as in pushing down) (preposition)
tees = the (definite article adjective)
gees." = earth." (object noun of preposition)

The prepositional phrase, "en ouranoo" simply means "in the sky" ("the" being included because we usually use a definite article before the word "sky" in English). Since this is the preposition "en," then "ouranoo" must be the locative case and the translation is therefore either "in" or "at," showing physical location or position.

As I've said before, the simplest way to see this is to look up Matthew 16:1-4:

Matthew 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
KJV

Kata Maththaion 16:1-4
1 Kai proselthontes hoi Farisaioi kai Saddoukaioi peirazontes epeerooteesan auton seemeion ek tou ouranou epideixai autois.
2 Ho de apokritheis eipen autois, "Opsias genomenees legete, 'Eudia," purrazei gar ho ouranos;
3 kai prooi, 'Seemeron cheimoon," purrazei gar stugnazoon ho ouranos. To men prosoopon tou ouranou ginooskete diakrinein, ta de seemeia toon kairoon ou dunasthe?
4 Genea pontera kai moichalis seemeion epizeetei, kai seemeion ou dotheesetai autee ei mee to seemeion Ioona." Kai katalipoon autous apeelthen.
Greek New Testament

Some say that the context will determine whether the word should be translated as "heaven" or as "sky," but look at it from the perspective of someone whose native language was Koinee Greek: How would THEY tell there was a difference? It's the SAME WORD! From the Greek person's perspective, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE! When they looked up, they saw the same thing we see when we look up - THE SKY! We know today that we can see farther at night when the brightness of the sun is out of the way, but how would THEY have known they were seeing farther away? They called the stars, "asteres," meaning "SEEDS" as "SOWN" across the sky!

Thus, "heaven" (in verse 1) = the "sky" (in verses 2 and 3).

Paul even used a different word (constructed from this word and a preposition) to describe the area where the sun, moon, and stars exist: "epouranios," coming from "ep-," a contraction of "epi" meaning "above/upon/over/against (as to push down on), and "ouranios," the adjective form of "ouranos." Literally, it means "pertaining to above-the-sky." It's used in 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 translated as "heavenly."

John used yet another word (also constructed from this word and an adjective) to describe where the birds fly: "mesouraneema." This word comes from "meso-" meaning "middle" or "midst" or "mid-" and "ouraneema," a neuter form of "ouranos." Thus, the word means "mid-sky." It's used in Revelation 19:17.

So, now let's read Matthew 28:18 correctly:

18 Also coming Yeshua` spoke to them saying, "Every right is given to me in [the] sky and upon the earth."

Can you see how a simple understanding of a word can make the difference in how one interprets a particular verse? Instead of a global perspective as an all-encompassing take on the UNIVERSE, we get a more normative, local perspective as having to do with the earth (the ground) and the sky (the air) - at most, the planet and its atmosphere!

So, did He indeed "wield all of YHWH's authority in heaven (throne) and upon earth (footstool)"? Well, yes and no. If you're talking about the UNIVERSE, then no. But, if you're talking about the planet and its atmosphere, then yes! THE EARTH and all its inhabitants - in the sky, on the earth, and under the earth - are His inheritance!

Thus, there's no "heaven" out there somewhere beyond the stars of the physical universe or in some 26th dimension outside of space and time as we know it. It's much simpler than that and more concrete. "Heaven" AT MOST is the atmosphere - the sky - within the New Jerusalem, which we are told in Hebrews 12:22 is currently an "epouranios" city - a city currently being constructed "above the sky" - and John tells us it will land on the New Earth after the Millennium, mixing its atmosphere with that of our planet, for the gates will always stand open. (They will not be shut at all during the day, and there is no night there.)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yeah. Daq is a deep thinker,you have to pay close attention when he writes something.

Deep is not necessarily good:

But I say to you, to the rest [who are] in Thyatira, all those who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep [things] of Satan, as they say, I do not put upon you any other burden. Revelation 2:24

 

[daq]

Shabbat shalom, Enoch.

No, it's not just you. That's the problem with allegorical thinking; it's at the WHIM of the allegorical thinker! It's just like the prophecies of Madeleine Murray O'Hare or Nostradamus. The wording becomes so NEBULOUS that it can mean anything that the allegorical thinker WANTS it to mean! It simply depends on what the allegorical thinker is trying to say from moment to moment! If the Scripture is close enough, he can let it (MAKE it) apply (whether it does in context or not).

While I like some of the things that daq says, his allegorical approach to Scripture negates the positive so many times.

Shalom, daq.

Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, [supernal] that they may be as frontlets between your eyes [supernal].
19. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, [supernal] and upon thy gates: [supernal]
21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

The Elohim of Israel appeared pa`amiym-twice times unto Solomon:

1 Kings 11:6-9 KJV
6. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father.
7. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
9. And the Lord was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the Lord God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, [pa`amiym]

This caused "the Preacher" to know of a thousand years pa`amiym-twice told:

Ecclesiastes 6:1-6 KJV
1. There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men:
2. A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.
3. If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.
4. For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness.
5. Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other.
6. Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, [pa`amiym] yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Are you and Retrobyter wiser than the Preacher, Solomon, or the Scripture? I trow not! :lol:
Let's take a look at each of these passages:

Deuteronomy 11:18 is first talking about phylacteries. I trust you know what they are. The orthodox Jews still wear them today, and though some only wear them on certain occasions, most wear them EVERY DAY, usually when they make the conscious effort to pray. One of my good friends (who I haven't seen for some time), Daveed, wore them often and taught me how they were donned.

Second, verse 20 is talking about mezuzahs - boxes that are tacked to the door posts and gates of a person's house with memory verses within them to constantly remind them of their importance when they enter or exit though that doorway or gate. Most Jews will touch their fingers to their lips and then to the mezuzah as a sign of respect and love for God.

These things are NOT "supernal" but are LITERAL and PHYSICAL!

Third, I find it very interesting (and telling) how you quoted 18-21, but neglected verses 1 and 13 which are the words that one should remember:

Deuteronomy 11:1-17
1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
2 And know ye this day: for I speak not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand, and his stretched out arm,
3 And his miracles, and his acts, which he did in the midst of Egypt unto Pharaoh the king of Egypt, and unto all his land;
4 And what he did unto the army of Egypt, unto their horses, and to their chariots; how he made the water of the Red sea to overflow them as they pursued after you, and how the Lord hath destroyed them unto this day;
5 And what he did unto you in the wilderness, until ye came into this place;
6 And what he did unto Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, the son of Reuben: how the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and their tents, and all the substance that was in their possession, in the midst of all Israel:
7 But your eyes have seen all the great acts of the LORD which he did.
8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;
9 And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
10 For the land, whither thou goest in to possess it, is not as the land of Egypt, from whence ye came out, where thou sowedst thy seed, and wateredst it with thy foot, as a garden of herbs:
11 But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven:
12 A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.
13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.
16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
17 And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
KJV

THESE are the words that were stored in both phylacteries and in mezuzahs!

Obviously, you are trying to fabricate a link between the other two passages, 1 Kings 11:6-9 and Ecclesiastes 6:1-6, simply because the two passages use the same Hebrew word, pa`amaayim. That's a BAD idea because it doesn't work.

Deep is not necessarily good:

But I say to you, to the rest [who are] in Thyatira, all those who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep [things] of Satan, as they say, I do not put upon you any other burden. Revelation 2:24

Blasphemy will get you everywhere that your heart desires CRF-T Dead.

---

---

Retrobyter do you not understand from Devarim 11:18 what it means when he says "you shall lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul"? Phylacteries is your interpretation of the passage, which you have received from your fathers, and if that is the interpretation which you choose to uphold then you are bound by it, to uphold it, for as you should well know, (contrary to the popular carnal minded modern shepherds) Torah is by no means done away. How then are you any different from the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes? Yet the heart of Moshe was circumcised; pierced all the way through, just as were the two tables of stone which were written with the Finger of God. Then from the circumcised heart of Moshe flows the rest of Torah because his heart contained "new valves" (supernally speaking because it was pierced completely through) allowing the Spirit of the Word to flow through. Your fathers ate manna in the wilderness, and are dead, for they ate manna according to the eyes and mind of the flesh to fill their bellies for a day. Yet my fathers also ate manna in the wilderness and they Live because they ate the manna of the Spirit which is the true manna which comes down from heaven, (which is Messiah). God is not the God of the dead but of the Living; and do not kid yourself, you are nowhere near an Orthodox Jew. Speaking of "near" have you never read 2 Peter 3:8 in your Transliteration Bibles which you so often quote from?

2 Peter 3:8 KJV
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with [GSN#3844 para] the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Because of other passages, (such as Revelation 20:4) the natural and carnally minded man immediately takes this passage and assumes to himself the greatest possible reward he can imagine for himself, which would be a thousand year reign of literal physical flesh; dominating the globe in a world wide planetary dominion-kingdom, which interpretation is, again, taken from his own fleshly interpretation of Revelation 20:4. It is called circular reasoning because the man is trapped within his own mindset and can see nothing else. However the passage from Peter does not say what he thinks it says because when he reads "one day is WITH the Lord as a thousand years" he naturally assumes that it means "one day is ACCORDING to the Lord as a thousand years". If only he would repent and buy some eye salve from the Master he might be able to see that this is not at all what the passage states but rather, taken in the light of the other passages which have already been quoted herein, (and in the Light of Scripture as a whole) what this passage states is that "mia hemeras" "the first day BESIDE the Lord is as it were a thousand years". This is clear because in the opening of the passage Peter writes the word for the "primary numeral one" which is "heis" and states "Let not this one [heis-hen] thing be hidden from you" then employs "mia" which therefore does not mean "one" but rather "first" because the author already used the primary numeral heis-hen in the opening of the same sentence. Likewise "para" does not mean "according to" but rather "nearness to" ["with" or "beside" the Lord in this context].

2 Peter 3:8 TUA
8. Hen de touto me lanthaneto humas, agapetoi, hoti mia hemera para Kurio hos chilia ete kai chiliaete hos hemera mia.

Original Strong's Ref. #1520
Romanized heis
Pronounced hice
(including the neuter [etc.] hen); a primary numeral; one:
KJV--a(-n, -ny, certain), + abundantly, man, one (another), only, other, some. See also GSN1527, GSN3367, GSN3391, GSN3762.

Original Strong's Ref. #3391
Romanized mia
Pronounced mee'-ah
irregular feminine of GSN1520; one or first:
KJV--a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.

Original Strong's Ref. #3844
Romanized para
Pronounced par-ah'
a primary preposition; properly, near; i.e. (with genitive case) from beside (literally or figuratively), (with dative case) at (or in) the vicinity of (objectively or subjectively), (with accusative case) to the proximity with (local [especially beyond or opposed to] or causal [on account of]:
KJV--above, against, among, at, before, by, contrary to, X friend, from, + give [such things as they], + that [she] had, X his, in, more than, nigh unto, (out) of, past, save, side...by, in the sight of, than, [there-]fore, with. In compounds it retains the same variety of application.

If the natural man could stop sinning for even a single day then even he would have fulfilled his course of a thousand year reign WALKING BESIDE the Lord. Likewise he might begin to understand that if the Lord appears to him even just once that this is so valuable that Solomon perceived it as like having lived a thousand years. Likewise the carnal and fleshly mind would then begin to dissipate, and eventually be dissolved, being melted away by the glory and power of God through his Word. The same would surely not then be demanding his "literal thousand year reign" of glorified flesh upon the earth because he would know that he is being ungrateful just like the murmurers and complainers who died off in the wilderness even though they were of the children of Israel. Is there no one here willing to walk in Messiah according to the Spirit as also Paul preached and taught?

 

[ENOCH2010]

I can't speak for Roy but I can assure you daq that I look to rule and reign for a thousand literal years here on this Earth. Not in this fleshly body I have now, but a body like the Lord has. We do not know what kind of body we will have, but we do know it will be one like the Lord has. When He returns His first order of business is to raise the righteous dead and then those that are His that remain alive, to give us our glorified bodies. Then starts the thousand year reign.

 

[daq]

I can't speak for Roy but I can assure you daq that I look to rule and reign for a thousand literal years here on this Earth. Not in this fleshly body I have now, but a body like the Lord has. We do not know what kind of body we will have, but we do know it will be one like the Lord has. When He returns His first order of business is to raise the righteous dead and then those that are His that remain alive, to give us our glorified bodies. Then starts the thousand year reign.

According to the Scripture then these things must first come to pass for you to be correct:

Revelation 20:4 KJV
4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 RSV
4. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 WEB
4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 TUA
4. Kai eidon thronous kai ekathisan ep autous kai krima edothe autois, kai tas psuchas ton pepelekismenon dia ten marturian Iesou kai dia ton logon tou Theou kai hoitines ou prosekunesan to therion oude ten eikona autou kai ouk elabon to charagma epito metopon kai epi ten cheira auton. Kai ezesan kai ebasileusan meta tou Christou chilia ete.
4. And I saw thrones, and they were seated upon, and judgment was given unto them; even the souls that were having been pelekizo-truncated through the testimony of Yeshua, and through the Word of the Theou, and which not had worshiped the wild beast, neither the image-ikon of him, and not had received the mark upon the forehead and upon the hand of them. And they lived and reigned with the Christou a thousand years.

1) You shall go through great tribulation.
2) You shall not worship the wild beast.
3) You shall not worship the image-ikon of the wild beast.
4) You shall not receive the mark.
5) You shall be fully truncated through the Testimony of Yeshua.
6) You shall be fully truncated through the Word of the Theou, YHWH.

Let us suppose that you do indeed fulfill your course in all of these commandments.
Who exactly is it that you expect you will be ruling over?

Revelation 2:26-29 KJV
26. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28. And I will give him the morning star.
29. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

1) What "nations" are these which you will be ruling over?
2) What is the meaning of the "rod of iron" which you will be wielding?
3) Who or what is the morning star?

I can assure you of what is written: "Sin lieth at the door; and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." But if you will not rule over the seven heathen mountains with their devils and their doctrines in this present age then how is it that you suppose you will be counted worthy to rule over them in the next? One cannot even begin to grasp Torah the rod of iron unless and until he first "truncate" his own offensive right hand or foot through the Testimony of Yeshua.

 

[ENOCH2010]

According to the Scripture then these things must first come to pass for you to be correct:

Revelation 20:4 KJV
4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 RSV
4. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 WEB
4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 TUA
4. Kai eidon thronous kai ekathisan ep autous kai krima edothe autois, kai tas psuchas ton pepelekismenon dia ten marturian Iesou kai dia ton logon tou Theou kai hoitines ou prosekunesan to therion oude ten eikona autou kai ouk elabon to charagma epito metopon kai epi ten cheira auton. Kai ezesan kai ebasileusan meta tou Christou chilia ete.
4. And I saw thrones, and they were seated upon, and judgment was given unto them; even the souls that were having been pelekizo-truncated through the testimony of Yeshua, and through the Word of the Theou, and which not had worshiped the wild beast, neither the image-ikon of him, and not had received the mark upon the forehead and upon the hand of them. And they lived and reigned with the Christou a thousand years.

1) You shall go through great tribulation.
2) You shall not worship the wild beast.
3) You shall not worship the image-ikon of the wild beast.
4) You shall not receive the mark.
5) You shall be fully truncated through the Testimony of Yeshua.
6) You shall be fully truncated through the Word of the Theou, YHWH.

Let us suppose that you do indeed fulfill your course in all of these commandments.
Who exactly is it that you expect you will be ruling over?

Revelation 2:26-29 KJV
26. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28. And I will give him the morning star.
29. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

1) What "nations" are these which you will be ruling over?
2) What is the meaning of the "rod of iron" which you will be wielding?
3) Who or what is the morning star?

I can assure you of what is written: "Sin lieth at the door; and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." But if you will not rule over the seven heathen mountains with their devils and their doctrines in this present age then how is it that you suppose you will be counted worthy to rule over them in the next? One cannot even begin to grasp Torah the rod of iron unless and until he first "truncate" his own offensive right hand or foot through the Testimony of Yeshua.

daq you pretty much stated my belief, I fully expect the Lord to return in my lifetime. If He dose I expect to go through the tribulation,as for the nations that the Lord will rule, I suppose they will be the evil people that make it through the tribulation. The Bible tells us who the morning star used to be, and I can't over come anything in this fleshly body,that's why I wait to be clothed with my glorified body.

 

[daq]

daq you pretty much stated my belief, I fully expect the Lord to return in my lifetime. If He dose I expect to go through the tribulation,as for the nations that the Lord will rule, I suppose they will be the evil people that make it through the tribulation. The Bible tells us who the morning star used to be, and I can't over come anything in this fleshly body,that's why I wait to be clothed with my glorified body.

Like Paulos, if indeed you overcome, you will not be sure whether in the body, or whether out of the body.
Yet the Scripture says: "Come out of her my people!" and "Anabatehode!"