Sola Scriptura - does this foundation make you a heretic

[Helen]

If the word is not the Bible, then what is it?

The Bible is the written words that God spoke to anointed men.

THIS IS THE WORD.

John 1 1 "In the beginning was The Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. HE was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

The Word of God is a person not a Book....however wonderful the book is...it is not The Word.
It is the wonderful spoken words of God.

The clear scriptures quoted above prove this.

 

[bbyrd009]

If the word is not the Bible, then what is it?

the breath of God, as available to you as to any Apostle. I'm guessing the Book of Truth is prolly also Word, but then we do not have the Book of Truth available to us i guess

 

[Job]

@DPMartin Yay...excellent post! Totally agree.
But, it can either 'be seen' or it remains unseen.
Just like the endless Faith v works' and 'we must keep the commandments and reach perfection' crowed...they seem to be in every gathering.
Like salvation...how can you get eyes open who cannot see.
Like faith...it cannot be imparted.

Now ..does God's Spirit open 'some' eyes to see these things, but not others,
or are they so steeped in what they already believe ( or have been told to believe) that they refuse to see?

How did you come to know God? Was it not through the scriptures?

 

[Job]

The Word of God is a person not a Book....however wonderful the book is...it is not The Word.
It is the wonderful spoken words of God.

Semantics.

 

[Job]

2 Timothy 3
14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Job]

Hebrews 4
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Job]

John 12
48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

 

[amadeus]

My it can be sharp, so sharp that it pierces "even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.[Heb 4:12]

And here on this computer forum page it seemingly does more of the same, but someone did the input. The words did not jump from the page of a Book to the computer forum, did they?

But what was it that God did with His Word?

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

Does this mean that what God spoke became the man, Jesus? Did the man then thereafter become a Book? If so then can this man [me] and that man [he] and that woman [she] also become a Book? Will God not simply repeat with us what was initially done with His Word making us Flesh that is really Alive as Jesus is really Alive?

What was it that Jesus prayed for about us?

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23

Does this mean that we are also to be the Word made flesh also as we eat his flesh and drink his blood? [see John 6:53]

Confusing? If it is then what does this mean?

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33

Is it confusing or is it this?

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:13-15

 

[Job]

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23

John 17
14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

 

[FHII]

The Word of God is a person not a Book....however wonderful the book is...it is not The Word.
It is the wonderful spoken words of God.

The clear scriptures quoted above prove this.

My friend... I cannot endorse this.

Jesusband God were called the Word. A word by conventional definition is not a person. A name or a title or a metaphor? Perhaps. Likewise, God is love. A feeling, attribute or emtion is not a person. A spirit, perhaps.

Let me demonstrate something: do you know me bygrace? If so, how? You know me by what I type... Or... My words.

Other people know me as a 5'8" thin white male of 50ish. But thats all they know about me. You probably didn't kbow my physical looks but you know me much deeper. Why? We have fellowshipped on this board. I wrote some words to you.

If you were there when Jesus said, "eat my flesh and drink my blood" or "the first great commandment is..." or " Lo I am with you alway..." would you ignore what he said and just look at him and say that is the Word? Or would you take the words of the Word to heart?

Even if Jesus came looking like Brad Pitt or Dwayne Johnson... He still came looking like a man. He didn't come looking like a God. It was what he said that set him apart (and what he did... Which often was by him speaking.... He didn't do a dance to cast out demons... He spoke words). Now he was led to slaughter and didn't speak... True...

Today, we have the Bible. The very words God spoke. The difference Jesus made was by his speaking. His death was important, but he even spoke during that. But his life... The time he lived... Was just as important.

The Bible is the record of what he said. It is his word and he is defined by what he said. The Bible IS the Word because it tells us what he said and did. It isn't the Old Testament or the New Testament. It is HIS testament.

Wow... I am tired! Hope that made sense.

 

[Job]

My friend... I cannot endorse this.

Jesusband God were called the Word. A word by conventional definition is not a person. A name or a title or a metaphor? Perhaps. Likewise, God is love. A feeling, attribute or emtion is not a person. A spirit, perhaps.

Let me demonstrate something: do you know me bygrace? If so, how? You know me by what I type... Or... My words.

Other people know me as a 5'8" thin white male of 50ish. But thats all they know about me. You probably didn't kbow my physical looks but you know me much deeper. Why? We have fellowshipped on this board. I wrote some words to you.

If you were there when Jesus said, "eat my flesh and drink my blood" or "the first great commandment is..." or " Lo I am with you alway..." would you ignore what he said and just look at him and say that is the Word? Or would you take the words of the Word to heart?

Even if Jesus came looking like Brad Pitt or Dwayne Johnson... He still came looking like a man. He didn't come looking like a God. It was what he said that set him apart (and what he did... Which often was by him speaking.... He didn't do a dance to cast out demons... He spoke words). Now he was led to slaughter and didn't speak... True...

Today, we have the Bible. The very words God spoke. The difference Jesus made was by his speaking. His death was important, but he even spoke during that. But his life... The time he lived... Was just as important.

The Bible is the record of what he said. It is his word and he is defined by what he said. The Bible IS the Word because it tells us what he said and did. It isn't the Old Testament or the New Testament. It is HIS testament.

Wow... I am tired! Hope that made sense.

That was a really good post.

I think one of my bulbs just got brighter.

Thank you.

 

[Helen]

My friend... I cannot endorse this.

Jesusband God were called the Word. A word by conventional definition is not a person. A name or a title or a metaphor? Perhaps. Likewise, God is love. A feeling, attribute or emtion is not a person. A spirit, perhaps.

Let me demonstrate something: do you know me bygrace? If so, how? You know me by what I type... Or... My words.

Other people know me as a 5'8" thin white male of 50ish. But thats all they know about me. You probably didn't kbow my physical looks but you know me much deeper. Why? We have fellowshipped on this board. I wrote some words to you.

If you were there when Jesus said, "eat my flesh and drink my blood" or "the first great commandment is..." or " Lo I am with you alway..." would you ignore what he said and just look at him and say that is the Word? Or would you take the words of the Word to heart?

Even if Jesus came looking like Brad Pitt or Dwayne Johnson... He still came looking like a man. He didn't come looking like a God. It was what he said that set him apart (and what he did... Which often was by him speaking.... He didn't do a dance to cast out demons... He spoke words). Now he was led to slaughter and didn't speak... True...

Today, we have the Bible. The very words God spoke. The difference Jesus made was by his speaking. His death was important, but he even spoke during that. But his life... The time he lived... Was just as important.

The Bible is the record of what he said. It is his word and he is defined by what he said. The Bible IS the Word because it tells us what he said and did. It isn't the Old Testament or the New Testament. It is HIS testament.

Wow... I am tired! Hope that made sense.

@FHII Great post thank you , and great "food for thought"...I am tired now too... it is moving closer to midnight and I must go to work tomorrow...( far too old to still be working...but its for my son-in-law )
I am making a note of this post ( if I don't write it down I can't remember where it is LOL )
Your post doubly blessed me ...because you disagreed with me in a very polite way, which makes me desire to continue the conversation. Why some other people find that so impossible to do without being rude, I have no idea. Thank you.
I will be back to chat with you...bless you..Helen.

 

[Job]

Why some other people find that so impossible to do without being rude, I have no idea.

Sorry, I don't have the gift of gab.

 

[mjrhealth]

17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

Whos word???, His, where did it come from??? Straight out of the mouth of Jesus.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Someone quoted before and left teh last bit out. The bible is dead, it has no life in it.

 

[GodsGrace]

How did you come to know God? Was it not through the scriptures?

Hi Job,
From this post I'm beginning to see what some problems that occur here are coming from.

When I write I quote scripture. I say nothing that cannot be supported by scripture.

There are some here who say they learn from the Holy Spirit.
This is not a very good way to learn because the Holy Spirit teaches us truths are can be for our personal edification so that we can understand a concept better.

EVERYONE hears from the Holy Spirit. You'd think by some posts that some here get a telephone call every evening.

The word of God, the bible, was written so that ALL Christians could know the same God and how He has revealed Himself to us. The word of God is constant and not changing. He was the same God in the O.T. and in the N.T.

Some here do not practice SOLA scriptura but SOLO scriptura.

Sola means that we depend on the written word of God, the bible.
The bible can be very easy to understand or difficult. The language was different, the times were different, words had different meanings.
It's good to get our theology from accredited sources - but this seems to be looked down upon by some.

Solo means that someone sits at home and reads the bible all by themseslves and come up with whatever idea they come up with.

So yes, we must depend on the bible and on God's written word for what we know and on those that understand the bible well.

My two cents.

 

[Job]

Whos word???, His, where did it come from??? Straight out of the mouth of Jesus.

You really don't know? Who was Jesus praying to?

John 17
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

 

[GodsGrace]

Sola Scriptura (Lat., ‘by scripture alone’). The belief that the truths of Christian faith and practice can and must be established from scripture alone, without additions from, e.g., tradition or development.

Sola Scriptura was/is a founding principle for protestant Christians and is found as a principle in scripture itself;
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

If someone such as myself were to say that my understandings for God, Christ and salvation are entirely founded on "Sola Scriptura" does this mean that in other peoples views I could be considered a heretic?

Hi KBCid
Then let me say that we should all be heretics.

If we don't adhere to scripture, many problems arise.
For instance:
One particular denomination has made certain declarations about Mary, the mother of Jesus. These declarations are not found in scripture.

As time went by problems arose because of these declarations...
So NEW ones had to be made. Not only that, but they were declared dogma - which means that a person of that denomination MUST believe the statements are true.

Adhereing to scripture prevents this type of problem from happening in the first place.

How else could we learn about God?

 

[GodsGrace]

its been my experience in debates sola scripture is a fav of catholic terms when addressing protestant views. thing is the none catholic position really is; if it don't jive with scripture, then it ain't true. of which the Catholics declare as sola scripture which is a misnomer. usually to save face when they loss an argument.

one's walk with the Lord isn't scripture only, it is verified and or affirmed in scripture only. therefore if it don't match scripture there is a problem with it, in the case of the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ. because friend, our Faith is the same Faith of Abraham, and if you are not experiencing that same Faith, maybe corrections should be made.

but there is no allowance for the adding to, or taking away from scripture for that very reason, correction. and correction to what, if scripture doesn't remain intact, and adhered to, as what is correct?

and anything outside of that can lead to heresy, and people trying to force the scriptures to fit their own thinking. you know the "take it out of context guys", a lot like media does.

WHO gets to decide what is outside of scripture?
Who gets to decide if one is adding to or subtracting from?
Who gets to decide WHO is taking what out of context?

 

[Job]

The bible is dead, it has no life in it.

If the bible is dead, why do you quote from it?

 

[mjrhealth]

One particular denomination has made certain declarations about Mary, the mother of Jesus. These declarations are not found in scripture

YEs 41000 denomintaions all adhering to scripture. Somethings wrong.