Spotting Heretics

[Berserk]

Jim B: "One question: is Jesus resurrected and sitting at the right hand of God or is He dead on the cross? You are trivializing His sacrifice -- or more properly, denying it -- by portraying Him as dead.

Here's the point that you and your ilk don't get. People don't walk around with a symbol of the resurrection (an Easter egg? LOL). Together with the fish, the cross is the most universal symbol of Christianity. Given that fact, evangelicals have a choice whether to portray an empty cross or a cross that honors Jesus' atoning death. Jesus' resurrection has no redemptive value without Jesus' death on the cross. A cross alone is merely a symbol of self-sacrifice and cross-bearing as a symbol of the life of discipleship, not of the resurrection. In any case, evangelicals don't celebrate Jesus' resurrection any more than Catholics.

Paul says he is determined "to know nothing among you except Christ, and Him crucified," not resurrected! Yet Paul would of course recognize, as Catholics do, that Jesus' resurrection is essential to our salvation. You know this very well, and therefore your response is disingenuous.

 

[Jim B]

Jim B: "One question: is Jesus resurrected and sitting at the right hand of God or is He dead on the cross? You are trivializing His sacrifice -- or more properly, denying it -- by portraying Him as dead.

Here's the point that you and your ilk don't get. People don't walk around with a symbol of the resurrection (an Easter egg? LOL). Together with the fish, the cross is the most universal symbol of Christianity. Given that fact, evangelicals have a choice whether to portray an empty cross or a cross that honors Jesus' atoning death. Jesus' resurrection has no redemptive value without Jesus' death on the cross. A cross alone is merely a symbol of self-sacrifice and cross-bearing as a symbol of the life of discipleship, not of the resurrection. In any case, evangelicals don't celebrate Jesus' resurrection any more than Catholics.

Paul says he is determined "to know nothing among you except Christ, and Him crucified," not resurrected! Yet Paul would of course recognize, as Catholics do, that Jesus' resurrection is essential to our salvation. You know this very well, and therefore your response is disingenuous.

John 11:25a, "Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life."

He didn't say I am dead on the cross and/or I am death.

You and your ilk (your words) have a morbid fascination with suffering and death.

How many other images do you have a dead people? Jesus is NOT DEAD!!! Your portrayal of Him as dead is not only contrary to Scripture, it is disgusting! It play right into the false doctrine of suffering, as opposed to joyful living in Christ.

No matter how you twist it, you're obsessed with (unScriptural) morbidity!!!

Jesus, the savior of all humankind, has overcome death for all and is at the right hand of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Evangelicals imagine they can disregard Jesus and James by confessing directly to God and receive forgiveness without human (or priestly) mediation.

Millions of people have been getting forgiven and saved and filled with the Spirit without aid of the Catholic church for centuries. It's a lie to think one needs the Catholic church to relate to God. It simply isn't true.

God is longsuffering towards theological error, but why disrespect Jesus and James in this way?

Nobody needs the Catholic church to do what God has been doing without them for centuries.

Catholics are quitely simply more faithful to the Word in this respect.

It's the camel that the Catholic church has swallowed that makes the straining out of the gnat really very meaningless.

 

[Philip James]

There is but One, his name is Jesus.

Indeed,

I suggest then we are agreed that the choice of arbiter must be one Baptised into Christ?

The Church has an eclesial court of course, with the bishop being the suprume court of his dioscese..

But i do not expect you to submit to that court, so who would you suggest?

Or do you not trust the judgement of any of our brothers and sisters here to adjudicate?

Pax et Bonum

 

[ScottA]

Indeed,

I suggest then we are agreed that the choice of arbiter must be one Baptised into Christ?

The Church has an eclesial court of course, with the bishop being the suprume court of his dioscese..

But i do not expect you to submit to that court, so who would you suggest?

Or do you not trust the judgement of any of our brothers and sisters here to adjudicate?

Pax et Bonum

Whether it is right in the sight of God to be judged by men to you more than God, you judge. But I have already submitted to God.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Millions of people have been getting forgiven and saved and filled with the Spirit without aid of the Catholic church for centuries. It's a lie to think one needs the Catholic church to relate to God. It simply isn't true.


Nobody needs the Catholic church to do what God has been doing without them for centuries.


It's the camel that the Catholic church has swallowed that makes the straining out of the gnat really very meaningless.

Reading the Book Of Galatians reveals that those who “ ADD” to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace That is revealed in 1Cor 15:1-4 is “Fallen From Grace”.....The Gospel declares that if you simply Believe that “ Jesus died for your Sins” and “ Rose from the Grave”, you will be Saved...

If one ADDS * ANYTHING* to those two Gospel Facts, they are “ Severed From Christ” and they are “ Fallen From Grace” .....Catholic Doctrine “ADDS” the Seven Sacraments That are NO PART of Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Paul, of course, by Jesus Personally)

Anybody that believes in the Catholic Doctrine is “ Fallen” and “ Severed from Christ” ....Anybody is welcome to Read Galatians and prove me wrong.....

I am not engaging in “ catholic Bashing” because I maintain that 90% of the Protestants are just as bad......at least the Catholics are up-front about it....

All we can do is hope and pray that this “ Falling” is not tantamount to Damnation....many Bible Teachers maintain that it is.....if this is the case, that “ Narrow Gate” That Jesus referred to is gonna be VERY Narrow....

 

[Berserk]

Jim B: "He didn't say I am dead on the cross..."

LOL. Dead men can't talk!


Jim B: "Your portrayal of Him as dead is not only contrary to Scripture, it is disgusting! It play right into the false doctrine of suffering, as opposed to joyful living in Christ"

First, I don't portray Jesus as dead.
Second, where did you get the idea that the Jesus on crucifixes is dead! Jesus hung on the cross for hours before He died.
The false doctrine of suffering? You really need to get into the Word! e.g.
"In my flesh I am completing what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ for His body, the Church (Colossians 1:24)."
"I want to know Christ...and the sharing of His sufferings by becoming like Him in His death (Phil. 3:10)."
"If any want to be my followers, let them deny themselves, take up their cross daily, and follow me (Luke 9:23)."

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Reading the Book Of Galatians reveals that those who “ ADD” to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace That is revealed in 1Cor 15:1-4 is “Fallen From Grace”.....

Yes, that “ADD” literal circumcision and things like these:

“[observance of] days, and months, and times, and years.” (Galatians 4:10)

Paul himself “ADDS” conditions:

You must continue in the faith (Colossians 1:23; Romans 11:22)

Agreeing with Jesus’ owns words:

“…he that endureth to the end shall be saved.” (Matthew 10:22)

The Gospel declares that if you simply Believe that “ Jesus died for your Sins” and “ Rose from the Grave”, you will be Saved...

But you always leave the other parts of the gospel out. Like a mechanic that says:

“just put fuel in your car and it shall always run”

Without “adding” preventative maintenance advice; like regular oil changes, periodic tire air pressure checks, checking the brakes, etc.

 

[Philip James]

Whether it is right in the sight of God to be judged by men to you more than God, you judge.

Haha. You slippery snake. You'll say anything to avoid humbling yourself before others wont you?

Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ.

But I have already submitted to God.

Can one sunbmit to the God he cannot see and at the same time reject His ministers that one can see?

Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Your non serviam is but a whimpering echo of that which the enemy has shouted...

Serviam!

Pax et Bonum

 

[Brakelite]

Can one sunbmit to the God he cannot see and at the same time reject His ministers that one can see?

Yes, particularly if His ministers are not submitted to God, and have wandered into apostasy and rebellion.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Can one sunbmit to the God he cannot see and at the same time reject His ministers that one can see?

Yes:

"I know that you cannot tolerate those who are evil, and you have tested and exposed as liars those who falsely claim to be apostles." Revelation 2:2​

 

[Jim B]

Haha. You slippery snake. You'll say anything to avoid humbling yourself before others wont you?

Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ.



Can one sunbmit to the God he cannot see and at the same time reject His ministers that one can see?

Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Your non serviam is but a whimpering echo of that which the enemy has shouted...

Serviam!

Pax et Bonum

You have this in your signature: You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

How can that happen if the Lamb of God -- Jesus -- is dead on the cross, as your avatar shows Him? Do you believe that a dead man can marry?

 

[Philip James]

Yes, particularly if His ministers are not submitted to God, and have wandered into apostasy and rebellion.

And who makes that judgement?

The charge was brought against me that i believe and follow a lie..

Is there no one here who is capable of arbitrating as I defend myself, and the faith of my brothers and sisters for 2000 years?

I say this to shame you. Can it be that there is not one among you wise enough to be able to settle a case between brothers?

And what if God places men over us who abuse their position ? Is non serviam ever the answer?

For whenever anyone bears the pain of unjust suffering because of consciousness of God, that is a grace.

But what credit is there if you are patient when beaten for doing wrong? But if you are patient when you suffer for doing what is good, this is a grace before God.

Pax et Bonum

 

[ScottA]

Haha. You slippery snake. You'll say anything to avoid humbling yourself before others wont you?

Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ.

You call me a snake, but what you say, you yourself have not done. For I came to you having been sent, not to follow but to lead, and you have not received me.

Can one sunbmit to the God he cannot see and at the same time reject His ministers that one can see?

Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Your non serviam is but a whimpering echo of that which the enemy has shouted...

Serviam!

Have you learned nothing from Israel, whose ministers by blood made claims against Christ for not knowing Him by sight, action, or word?

I make the exception that Christ also made, as did John and Peter also.

But, again, do not get me wrong...the church that you continue to follow has indeed lead and done many good works, just as Israel did in spite of her folly...which you should have learned from. As for that "whimpering echo", was not John the Baptist "the voice of one crying in the wilderness", and they too did not hear?

​

 

[Philip James]

. As for that "whimpering echo", was not John the Baptist "the voice of one crying in the wilderness", and they too did not hear?

You are a voice in the wilderness alright..

Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.

Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.

For I came to you having been sent, not to follow but to lead, and you have not received me.

By your own words, you have excluded yourself from the apostolic communities, and now you would come and lead we who are free, back into slavery..

The Apostle John had your number, so to Antioch and Smyrna...

Go ahead and spew your poison, you have been exposed.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Kyrie Elison

 

[ScottA]

You are a voice in the wilderness alright..

Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.

Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.



By your own words, you have excluded yourself from the apostolic communities, and now you would come and lead we who are free, back into slavery..

The Apostle John had your number, so to Antioch and Smyrna...

Go ahead and spew your poison, you have been exposed.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Kyrie Elison

Now you are mocking and twisting what I have said to support your own slander...just as the hypocrites of Israel did.

Change your tune or we're done here.

 

[Philip James]

Change your tune or we're done here.

Fine, crawl back into whatever vile hole you came from.

You have been defanged.

Your hubris and cry of 'nonserviam' are on display here for all to see..

Your rejection of the community of the apostles noted

Your 'spirit' that you folloe exposed for all to see...

My doctrine is not my own, but demonstrably that of my brothers and sisters for 2000 years.. That which we recieved from Christ through the apostles..

You've got bupkis..

 

[ScottA]

Fine, crawl back into whatever vile hole you came from.

You have been defanged.

Your hubris and cry of 'nonserviam' are on display here for all to see..

Your rejection of the community of the apostles noted

Your 'spirit' that you folloe exposed for all to see...

My doctrine is not my own, but demonstrably that of my brothers and sisters for 2000 years.. That which we recieved from Christ through the apostles..

You've got bupkis..

For the record.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

-
Heretics, wherever they are found... should be taken seriously as being deceived by the Devil.

Spotting them is very easy.
As.....Every Heretic will believe that they can lose their salvation, as that is THE deception that is found in them all.
Some have really crazy Theology, but, the one common denominator is that they do not believe that Jesus or God = keeps them saved.

So, reader, when you dont believe that Jesus keeps you saved, HIMSELF< or GOD, HIMSELF< then what is left for you to believe that gets you into heaven?
What is it?

THINK !!!!!

Its YOURSELF.....trying to do something.... And that can be..."im holding unto my faith".. or "im keeping commandments", or
"I joined the one true Church".... Or..."im enduring to the end". "My salvation is all about ME ME ME ME doing something, vs, only trusting in Christ to get me to heaven" = which is the REAL FAITH.

See all that? ??
That is YOU Trusting YOU....as you dont TRUST CHRIST or God To get you into heaven, if you are a heretic.
What does that literally mean?
It means your faith is wrong, or broken. And Paul says you are "fallen from GRACE"<... "bewitched"...and "In the Flesh".
It means that Jesus is off the Cross, and YOU are up there on it, as your FAITH.

So, what is the worst thing about heretics as found on a Forum?
Its the fact that they can ruin your faith for life, and most especially the faith of a New Christian.
"christian" forums are deadly regarding a New Believer's Faith.
And that, is the one thing that the Devil wants..
He wants a new Christian to be FAITH DESTROYED, and then their entire life is nothing but nothing for God.

See, if you have a head full of theology and can teach it, then that is actually harmful unless what you teach is based on your correct understanding of the Grace of God as the BLOOD ATONEMENT, that is the foundation of your FAITH.
And when you are trying to keep yourself SAVED, and trying not to go to hell, then that is THE proof that you have no real faith in Christ.
Its gone, or was never there to begin with.

Question. Why should I become a Catholic?
Seriously. Let's pretend we're face to face and I'm looking for something to believe about God and the reason for living and this world.

And I ask you that question. How would you answer so to lead me to that church?

Thanks for your answer if you share one.

 

[Brakelite]

And who makes that judgement?

The charge was brought against me that i believe and follow a lie..

Is there no one here who is capable of arbitrating as I defend myself, and the faith of my brothers and sisters for 2000 years?

I say this to shame you. Can it be that there is not one among you wise enough to be able to settle a case between brothers?

And what if God places men over us who abuse their position ? Is non serviam ever the answer?

For whenever anyone bears the pain of unjust suffering because of consciousness of God, that is a grace.

But what credit is there if you are patient when beaten for doing wrong? But if you are patient when you suffer for doing what is good, this is a grace before God.

Pax et Bonum

It isn't just one or two representatives of your church that we need be concerned about... There are good and bad everywhere. It is the institution itself that needs to be sidelined. Can good fruit come from a wicked and corrupt tree? While there are many among you that are sincere and true Christians, they are so despite the institution, not because of it. They are so because of Christ, not because your institution serves Christ. It doesn't. And since the 6th century, never has and never will. Your blind obstinate faith in apostolic succession has blinded you to the apostasy and sin of that same succession.