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Marymog

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That's why I prefer the label of non-Catholic.
There are more and more of us who are getting back to the basics of the scriptures minus all the spiritless junk that crept in beginning with the Catholic church way back in the beginning shortly after the time of the original Apostles, when the gentiles took over leadership positions in the church.
Ummmmm..........that is what Protestant means; non-Catholic. Protestant Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

WOW....you are getting back to the basics of Scripture? Sooooo, BASICALLY Scripture says to obey those that rule over you. What men rule over you Ferris....I mean if you are getting back to basics then basically you should have at least one man in your gatherings of like minded people. Also, who in your little group do you call when one amongst you is sick (James 5:14)? After all, that is a very basic instruction in Scripture?

I can answer those two basic questions. Can you? (i know you won't but I thought I would ask)
 

Marymog

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Its been dug deep into that place . Pope innocent the third actually made it a command that folks are not to read the scrips on their own .
Not long after , perhaps thirty years around twelve hundred and twenty nine , it got even worse , they could not even own
or have the scrips . That church is one power hungry whore . NO wonder they went after folks like wycliff and others
who dared to translate it and get it into the peoples hands . That hungry WHORE wants all power and control over the people .
She aint alone either , other denominations have to some degree done this too . Folks who desire pre eminence
and power KNOW full well if the people get the scrips into their own hands , THEY GONNA HAVE A SERIOUS problem
keeping those who do so , UNDER THEIR POWER and CONTROL . OH THEY KNOW THIS . ITS WHy from the cradle
they raise them up with , YE CANNOT KNOW NOR UNDERSTAND the SCRIPS LEST WE TELL YA WHAT IT MEANS
AND believe you me , WHATTHEY SAY IT MEANS ALWAYS KEEPS THEM IN POWER and CONTROL . JUST SAYING .
Oh my how you twist Christian history just like you twist Scripture kiddo.

Pope Innocent 3rd did not make it a command that folks are not to read the scripture on their own. That is a complete and utter lie that your Protestant revolutionaries have taught you.

Please quote the writings of Innocent 3rd that prove what you have been taught by your men. You can ask for help from your friends @Ferris Bueller or @Blue Dragonfly's ! I know each of you have your own "truths" from Scripture but maybe you can all at least agree to the truth of your Christian history.

I know you won't quote it IN FULL and IN CONTEXT...but it doesn't hurt to ask.
 

Ferris Bueller

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You can ask for help from your friends @Ferris Bueller or @Blue Dragonfly's !
The truth about papal history would be a matter of consulting a history text, not scripture.
Not interested.
I'm only interested in Catholic history insofar as how and when they ruined the Christian faith with their corrupt pagan practices.
 

Ferris Bueller

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WOW....you are getting back to the basics of Scripture? Sooooo, BASICALLY Scripture says to obey those that rule over you.
...only the rulers gifted and sent by God to be in charge of God's people as evidenced by, first of all, how they live, and then whether or not what they teach is consistent with the original Apostles teachings. You know, the scriptures (not the writings of the so-called fathers of the church). That's why I categorically reject the rule of the Catholic church.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Hey kiddo.....Do you and @Ferris Bueller agree on everything when you interpret Scripture?

You don't do you......soooooooooo which one of you two actually follow the gospel of Christ if one if you is wrong according to the other?
You have such a short memory, lol!
I showed you where the Bible shows us why there can be legitimate disagreement between believers. You obviously do not believe the original Apostles and instead prefer the teachings of your men.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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You reek of righteousness and pride when you say the majority of Catholics simply do not have the Spirit in them to be able to discern the truth! Who made you judge of men's souls?
Ah, yes, the favorite argument of the unsaved.
I always know what spirit I'm dealing with when someone plays the 'who are you to judge' card, lol.

I like you Mary. You have a naivety and innocence about you that I like. Unlike your husband(?) (Bread Of Life) who...well, let's just say he's not very likable, lol.

I think if you got in a Bible study with a group of truly saved, born again Bible readers you'd appreciate the simplicity and value of God's design and intention for how the members of his body are to meet and learn and walk in the truth. The Catholic church missed it by a light-year. They have you folks locked into cold dead, empty, meaningless creeds and ceremonies. And you think that's what it means to know God and to please him. That's not even remotely true. If there ever was a Catholic that I thought could one day see the truth of that it would be you. I like you. I really do! I mean that.
 

amigo de christo

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Oh my how you twist Christian history just like you twist Scripture kiddo.

Pope Innocent 3rd did not make it a command that folks are not to read the scripture on their own. That is a complete and utter lie that your Protestant revolutionaries have taught you.

Please quote the writings of Innocent 3rd that prove what you have been taught by your men. You can ask for help from your friends @Ferris Bueller or @Blue Dragonfly's ! I know each of you have your own "truths" from Scripture but maybe you can all at least agree to the truth of your Christian history.

I know you won't quote it IN FULL and IN CONTEXT...but it doesn't hurt to ask.
I didnt read it from protestants . I read it from a book a catholic wrote . WHO STILL SUPPORTS YOU ALL .
SO much for your false accusations . Pope innocent the third did say they are not to read scrips on their own .
It got worse later too . They could learn and read scrips but only under the supervision of a teacher .
THIS was in a book wrote by A CATHOLIC who is not anti catholic but still supports what YOU SUPPORT
I didnt read nor hear this from a protestant . I actually DO ME OWN RESEARCH and still read ACTUAL BOOKS
in the library . I warn against the protestant realm as i do against the CC itself . YOU keep assuming . You keep failing too .
TOO bad you wont just go learn the bible FOR YOU . You would see its not me who has been decieved but you
and YES even a number so high within the protestant realm too . A number so high within even the protestant realm
That its been next to impossible for me to even find a good church or a good pastor . STOP ASSUMING , START LEARNING instead .
 

amigo de christo

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Oh my how you twist Christian history just like you twist Scripture kiddo.

Pope Innocent 3rd did not make it a command that folks are not to read the scripture on their own. That is a complete and utter lie that your Protestant revolutionaries have taught you.

Please quote the writings of Innocent 3rd that prove what you have been taught by your men. You can ask for help from your friends @Ferris Bueller or @Blue Dragonfly's ! I know each of you have your own "truths" from Scripture but maybe you can all at least agree to the truth of your Christian history.

I know you won't quote it IN FULL and IN CONTEXT...but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Oh its in the book called the vicars of Christ a history of the church . I read on it again the other day while in the library .
Lord willing the next time i go to the library i will write down the title and the author . OH YEAH ITS REAL .
And it was wrote by a CATHOLIC . The history of the popes or vicars , something like that .
 

amigo de christo

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Born again according to WHO's definition Ferris? The definition of the men you follow OR Scriptures definition?

I have made it clear MULTIPLE times and The Church (my church) has taught for 2,000 years that the Ekklesia as a whole are the church. Do you even know what the word catholic means Ferris? Soooooo your "zero capacity" remark is false!

You reek of righteousness and pride when you say the majority of Catholics simply do not have the Spirit in them to be able to discern the truth! Who made you judge of men's souls? I am willing to bet if you and amigo de christo and Blue Dragonfly were to discuss the "truth" of Scripture all of you would have different "truths". Isn't that right amigo and dragonfly????? :dusted:

What you and your ilk are unable to answer is if ALL Christians are "the church" then which one of the billions of Christians fulfill 1 Timothy 3:15? Not every Christian is the pillar and foundation of truth Ferris and not each individual Christian can decide what other Christian is to be treated as a pagan/tax collector if they refuse to listen.

You and your friends @amigo de christo and @Blue Dragonfly's (the 3 amigo's who disagree with each other on the truth) are in a dilemma. :r.u.n:

Keeping it real....Mary
Just like the catholics DISAGREE on some things amongst themselves , EVEN ON THIS SITE .
No hard feelings against you nor towards you , but i had rather be dead and stinking in the soil after hours and days of extreme torment
than to sit under the CC . As well as most all of protestant land . FOLKS SOLD OUT . Not this lamb .
 

Grailhunter

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"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19

Over "the years" a lot of discussions have occurred about these verses.

The word hades is a topic because Hades is a Greco-Roman god that reigned over the realm of the dead, of the same name. It is a good example of the Apostles having to improvise the Greek...a Pagan language that did not convey Christian morals or concepts or imaginary. Christ spoke these words but what language did He speak them in? If it was Hebrew the word would have been Sheol. Then the Apostles used the closest Greek word to that. They could not use the word hell because it had not been coined yet. The word 'Hell' is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word hellia (derived from the Old English, Old Norse, Old High German, hel, helle, circa. 725 AD. Most of our imagery of hell comes from writings called poems...The Divine Comedy an Italian narrative poem by Dante Alighieri, circa 1320 and Paradise Lost an epic poem in blank verse by the 17th-century English poet John Milton (1608–1674).

Secondly Yeshua said all this to Peter....but how did it actually manifest? Christians take these verses to heart and understand them at face value. Peter was an important figure in early Christianity, but there is no indication that he was "the leader" of the Christian group - movement. And there is no evidence of a succession from him to what people call pope. The word Pope first came into use in the mid 10th century. The Catholics have a tendency to bestow the term on earlier Christian figures but the term or title was not used in those earlier time periods. The term that was used was "overseers" But the English term bishop a much more modern term, derives from the Greek word ἐπίσκοπος epískopos, meaning "overseer" in the Greek and it was used pretty early on in Christianity.

But back to Peter....two of the Gospels were written by Apostles that were among the twelve chosen. Mark and Luke were disciples of Peter and Paul respectively. Mark does not show up in the Bible or history as a Christian leader. Christians do not like change and they certainly do not like it when things do not turn out as stated in the scriptures. But as it was Peter went on to couple up with Paul to start a ministry to the Gentiles. He never did become the primary leader of Christianity. James the brother of Christ became the leader of the twelve....the Jewish-Christians. Paul and Peter became leaders of the Gentile-Christians. Paul was a citizen of Rome but neither Paul or Peter was connected to Rome in any special way....except it was Rome that killed them.

Like I said Christians do not like change but it is nearly a rule in the storyline of the Bible. The Jews were looking for a human Messiah that would be a warrior king that would be married and have kids....This is one of the reason they rejected Yeshua....the last thing they were expecting the Messiah to be was a God. In there beliefs Elijah was a senior figure to the Messiah and he would introduce the Messiah...it did not workout that way. The concept of a God impregnating a woman and she giving birth to a god was a Pagan motif. So that did not workout well. God impregnating a woman that was betrothed to a man was considered adultery. There is no prophecy that foretold that. The Apostles believed they were living in the last days and Christ would return soon. That did not workout that way. The concept of change is something a person that studies has to understand....and why the change occurred. Not to deny it or to be offended by it because it happened so often. It is a separate study of why.

The Catholics try to paint a clear picture but it is not clear and they try to adjust Christianity to what they think it should be.... Virgin Mary...virgin birth....perpetual virginity...Original Son, Peter's authority inherited by the Catholic Church...things like that. Overall they can only trace their history to the Emperor Constantine and the Ecumenical Councils that standardized Christian beliefs to form the universal church....the Roman Catholic Church. Which I cannot express how important that was.... because if it did not happen... Christianity may not have survived. For one, before Constantine, Rome was out to extinguish Christianity. And for two Gnosticism was gaining popularity.
 
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Marymog

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Just like the catholics DISAGREE on some things amongst themselves , EVEN ON THIS SITE .
No hard feelings against you nor towards you , but i had rather be dead and stinking in the soil after hours and days of extreme torment
than to sit under the CC . As well as most all of protestant land . FOLKS SOLD OUT . Not this lamb .
Just to be clear amigo....It doesn't matter if individual Catholics disagree with each other on scripture interpretation. When one is a member of The Church one cannot disagree with The Church and remain a member of The Church because The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If you don't agree with the Truth, then you are not Christian. If a Catholic disagrees with the dogma/doctrines of The Church then they are Catholic in name only. If a Protestant disagrees with another Protestant it doesn't matter! For you see the Protestant theory is that any Christian can read Scripture and ascertain the truth when they FEEL like they have been guided by the Holy Spirit into that truth. That means you THINK you have the truth and @Ferris Bueller THINKS he has the truth and @Blue Dragonfly's THINKS they have the truth and each one of you think the other is wrong and a heretic.

Scripture does not say that any of you are the pillar and foundation of truth....THE CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth.

Keeping it real...Mary
 

Marymog

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Oh its in the book called the vicars of Christ a history of the church . I read on it again the other day while in the library .
Lord willing the next time i go to the library i will write down the title and the author . OH YEAH ITS REAL .
And it was wrote by a CATHOLIC . The history of the popes or vicars , something like that .
My prediction came true: I know you won't quote it IN FULL and IN CONTEXT......

Why did my prediction come true? Because you lied amigo...Pope Innocent 3rd never wrote what you alleged he wrote and that makes you a liar.
 

Marymog

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I didnt read it from protestants . I read it from a book a catholic wrote . WHO STILL SUPPORTS YOU ALL .
SO much for your false accusations . Pope innocent the third did say they are not to read scrips on their own .
It got worse later too . They could learn and read scrips but only under the supervision of a teacher .
THIS was in a book wrote by A CATHOLIC who is not anti catholic but still supports what YOU SUPPORT
I didnt read nor hear this from a protestant . I actually DO ME OWN RESEARCH and still read ACTUAL BOOKS
in the library . I warn against the protestant realm as i do against the CC itself . YOU keep assuming . You keep failing too .
TOO bad you wont just go learn the bible FOR YOU . You would see its not me who has been decieved but you
and YES even a number so high within the protestant realm too . A number so high within even the protestant realm
That its been next to impossible for me to even find a good church or a good pastor . STOP ASSUMING , START LEARNING instead .
And yes you STILL haven't quoted it. Why is that amigo? Because your are not being honest.

Maybe @Marvelloustime can help you with your Christian history. HEY, Marvelloustime, can you quote Pope Innocent 3rd in regard to amigo's allegation?

Good luck kids.....
 

Marymog

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You have such a short memory, lol!
I showed you where the Bible shows us why there can be legitimate disagreement between believers. You obviously do not believe the original Apostles and instead prefer the teachings of your men.
Yup, there can be legitimate disagreement between believers on little things in Scripture. Like does one have to be fully submerged to be baptized since at no point and nowhere does it say that anyone was fully submerged during baptism. Little disagreements like that are legitimate. But there can be no disagreement on the Truth in Scripture. Because if you deny the Truth, you deny Him. Scripture talks about true doctrine and false doctrine Ferris. If you accept a false doctrine then you are to be REJECTED and kicked out of The Church....Just like Scripture says Ferris. Sooooooooo your twisting of Scripture has failed once again.

For there must also be factions (division) among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.

What does that mean Ferris? Those that are approved, by God with the truth are recognized. Not the ones who deny the Truth. You, the truth that will set you free. The truth that the Apostles taught and if we reject them we reject the One who sent them.

Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,

But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Soooooo what does all that mean Ferris? It means if a person disagrees with The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth, then they are to be rejected and treated as a heathen AFTER they have been warned. And those that are approved by God will be recognized!

ONCE AGAIN....notice how I used Scripture to destroy what your Protestant men have taught you? And YOU....well you keep giving your opinion.

 

Marymog

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No, being Protestant is almost always equated with being a Reformist and their particular doctrines. I am not Reformist. I am anti-Catholic for sure, but I am not Reformist.
Yup, you are right Ferris. And the dictionary, which everyone uses to define Protesant, is wrong.

You are always right.........Let the comedy movie continue :watching and waiting:
 

Marymog

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...only the rulers gifted and sent by God to be in charge of God's people as evidenced by, first of all, how they live, and then whether or not what they teach is consistent with the original Apostles teachings. You know, the scriptures (not the writings of the so-called fathers of the church). That's why I categorically reject the rule of the Catholic church.
Hey dodgball! Remember this question:

What men rule over you Ferris....I mean if you are getting back to basics then basically you should have at least one man in your gatherings of like minded people. Also, who in your little group do you call when one amongst you is sick (James 5:14)? After all, that is a very basic instruction in Scripture?

And my prediction?

I can answer those two basic questions. Can you? (i know you won't but I thought I would ask)

You are a dishonest person Ferris....you crack me up....Later kiddo......
 

amigo de christo

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And yes you STILL haven't quoted it. Why is that amigo? Because your are not being honest.

Maybe @Marvelloustime can help you with your Christian history. HEY, Marvelloustime, can you quote Pope Innocent 3rd in regard to amigo's allegation?

Good luck kids.....
Pay attention my friend . I said the next time i go to the library i will find the book and write down the title and the author .
 

Ferris Bueller

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Hey dodgball! Remember this question:

What men rule over you Ferris....I mean if you are getting back to basics then basically you should have at least one man in your gatherings of like minded people. Also, who in your little group do you call when one amongst you is sick (James 5:14)? After all, that is a very basic instruction in Scripture?
I've told you several times the pastor and elders rule the affairs of a congregation.
I guess you just don't get this because I'm not using the word 'Catholic', or 'priest', or 'pope' somewhere in the description of congregational leadership, lol.
 
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Wrangler

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Pope Innocent 3rd did not make it a command that folks are not to read the scripture on their own. That is a complete and utter lie that your Protestant revolutionaries have taught you.
What did Pope Innocent 3rd say on the subject of folks reading Scripture? Was it another Pope that prohibited laymen reading Scripture? That's pretty slick there. "We prohibit laymen possessing copies of the Old and New Testament"
From the 1200s to the 1800s, Papal leaders openly condemned the reading of the Bible in the vernacular (the language of the common people) and even persecuted those caught with copies of the Scriptures in their possession. Because Bible Societies (beginning in the 1800's) won the war and have spread God's Word around the world, Rome has backed off of its previously public position. Yet the Vatican has not changed. Papal Rome's opposition to pure Bible truth remains to this day.

For the record, you might do better dropping the arrogance, "kiddo" and so on.
 
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