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Behold
Well-Known Member
Why is it that you still believe Satan is still prince of this world who was going to be cast out, and done away with according to God himself by, having his head crushed in, and not the Lord Jesus Christ?
I do my best to justify my claim with use of scripture, which seems to me to be truthful, do you believe it to be also?
Behold
Well-Known Member
Oh you know the new testament, so that must make you better than other people would you say that in your case? What makes you think that I am a victim of a cult? All that has been suggested is what the bible states about Satan and his defeat.
You claim that just because you know the New Testament - that is your reasoning that Satan is still alive, but that doesn't directly answer the question.
Behold
Well-Known Member
THere is no such thing as a believer being 'Better" then other believers.
But there is such a thing as a believer having correct theology.
And there is such a thing as being called into the ministry, vs, not being.
God is "no respecter of persons" but He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.
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You are a cultist. You teach lies, that you have believed, and you have a carnal mind that feeds your flesh, and gives you canal satisfaction that drives you deeper into your cult mentality.
You have no idea how contrary you are, in your beliefs, as related to the New Testament.
Even the worst Legalist on the Fourm, has the God given sense to realize that the DEVIL is alive and well and causing chaos as the world system.
You can't even realize this, MatthewG, as your Spiritual darkness is INTENSE.
Oh that I would agree with. I believe that even unbelievers and believers are equal, because we are all human beings created by God.
Does that mean they have to go by your own theology to be correct in the mind of yourself though is the question? From me, I believe that my own understanding can be wrong sometimes, however when it comes down with sharing scriptures dealing with satan and his defeat still is effective in seeing that he was going to be defeated.
The choice though here, is do I believe that the Devil/Satan was done away with or not.
Would you say that is an individual's subjective decision to believe? But if they do not believe like you, they are deemed incorrect, even excommunicated?
Okay, but the question here on this Topic is about Satan and his defeat. Not about ministry.
Yes, I would agree, he doesn't love you more, than me, or me more than you, and those who seek him in faith are indeed rewarded.
You are calling me a cultist, but have no real bases for it.
Do I really teach lies? Or just something that goes against your own belief and understanding of the bible in seeing Jesus as the victor over all things already?
I love you either way, even if you do not believe Satan has been taken care of, If I was able to help you in anyway I wouldn't mind doing so all by the spirit of Christ with-in me.
You really are gonna have to stop throwing such accusations around like that, brother.
It's against the rules to bash other people.
The Flesh and Spirit fight each other - and God knows the entire history of both us, but loves us both equally, remember?
You can say what you want, but that denies the scripture uses that were used in the first place, dealing with the subject. So if you would like to say I am in opposition of Jesus Christ, and his fulfilment of things, I would say you really do not truly even understand my own position.
But the place Christians should be in hope for is the Heavenly Kingdom going to be with God, as this world still have it's problems no doubt, because of the darkness, which people love more than the light, but I dont believe the Devil has any merit today in 2022, and according to scripture he is done away with.
It seems like it is your perspective that "Even the worst Legalist on the Fourm, has the God given sense to realize that the DEVIL is alive and well and causing chaos as the world system."
That is totally fine that if your perspective is why you can still believe the Devil is around, and of course you know I believe he was defeated, and will always love you either way.
It's simply a matter of perspective.
Thank you for taking time to comment.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Here is your "ministry" MatthehG
Take a good long look, as Paul has perfectly defined you.
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2 Corinthians 11:14,15
""""And no wonder, since Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
So it is no great thing if HIS SERVANTS= disguise themselves to look like servants of righteousness.""""
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New International Version
It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
New Living Translation
So it is no wonder that his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. In the end they will get the punishment their wicked deeds deserve.
English Standard Version
So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Berean Standard Bible
It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions.
Berean Literal Bible
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
King James Bible
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
New King James Version
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
New American Standard Bible
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
NASB 1995
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
NASB 1977
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds.
Amplified Bible
So it is no great surprise if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness, but their end will correspond with their deeds.
Christian Standard Bible
So it is no great surprise if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will be according to their works.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.
American Standard Version
It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
It is not a great matter if also his Ministers imitate Ministers of righteousness, those whose end will be like their works.
Contemporary English Version
So why does it seem strange for Satan's servants to pretend to do what is right? Someday they will get exactly what they deserve.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works.
Good News Translation
So it is no great thing if his servants disguise themselves to look like servants of righteousness. In the end they will get exactly what their actions deserve.
@Behold, why do you just quote this one scripture and ignore everything that I said to you? That is very rude? Then again I have been very rude to others and perhaps its deserved by my own actions, but please, can you try to stick to my responses?
The only righteousness is founded in Christ, and I do my best to Love God and love others, even with my struggles and troubles in life. All credit to Christ and God for anything good that comes from them (through me) by the spirit. It's by faith that God is pleased - and those who seek him out are rewarded, remember?
The only righteousness is founded in Christ, and I do my best to Love God and love others, even with my struggles and troubles in life. All credit to Christ and God for anything good that comes from them (through me) by the spirit. It's by faith that God is pleased - and those who seek him out are rewarded, remember?
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Light had come in to the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Human beings are naturally born spiritually dead, though that spiritual side can be awakened by and through the truth and grace that comes through Jesus Christ. Without any light, there is only darkness a blindness to anything until the light shines which always makes thing appear.
The darkness of our own hearts, at a young age can be bent on evil, unless our parents bring for the the light which shows us how now to be able to navigate in life. Depending on the parents they may bring the notions of God through telling them about God, and Jesus of the bible. Darkness with-in our flesh which always enjoying doing what it wants, is opposed by the Light - which is where Jesus Christ by the spirit comes into heal our soul.
Do you love to hate your neighbor? Do you love to steal from others? Do you love to make fun of those who would deem beneath you? Do you love to cuss out the person who cut you off on the high way? Do you love to wish death upon people secretly in the heart when you are pissed off at them? Do you love to cause strife and division just for strife and divisions sake? Do you love to make snide remarks at others because they think differently than you?
That is what it is like to live in darkness, with no light, not to say that I haven't done any of these things, but all of us are guilty of having done something in this life no matter who you are, or where you are from.
Though as Gentiles - we were never born under the LAW - but that LAW was to show them, that no one in the whole world could keep the LAW - expect Christ Jesus - and that because of this the whole world is held accountable to God.
But, because of God's Grace, the light of the world is the Lord Jesus Christ, whom we come to and have a new spiritual life, once understanding that we all stand guilty before God - and that He is righteous and just, and because of His Son, he was able to reconciled the world unto himself.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Satan is still active! His defeat exists in the spiritual realm, in heaven. He was the accuser. We would sin and he would go to God and accuse us. Now he can't. Jesus defeated the penalty of our sins on the cross. He forgives those who ask and believe in Him. So to look at the big picture, in human history and into the future, he is defeated in that spiritual sense if not being able to accuse us - because we are forgiven. But he still deceives, lies and destroys others who are not the Lord's sheep.
His goal is to deceive the world and that is taking place as we speak. Wherever you see the absence of TRUTH, the distortion of it, the attack against it, Satan is behind it. No one can separate us from the love of God. No one can snatch us out of His hand. But not all are His sheep.
He blinds people, discourages them, deceives them and leads them away from Christ.
As long as unbeleievers stay away from Christ, Satan will leave them alone. So all the world religions keep Christ at a distance and Satan and his principalities work to keep it that way. But the Gospel pushes through those walls and spreads through China, India, Russia and even Muslim nations. Satan's prince's are in charge of these areas of the world. To think he is not active is naive.
Thank you for making your view clear as you see it, it would make sense if a person does not believe that Revelation 6-22, has not happen yet, @Ronald David Bruno. From my view which you already know is that I do believe Revelation 1-20 have happened, with 21-22 being pictures and types for us to learn about, perhaps a glimpse into what the after life looks like.
From my view, even though Satan has been taken care of already - it simply means that the Darkness of the world still remains, the darkness of the world can cause trouble in our lives - the darkness we wrestle around with - not only having been in darkness itself.
Like a man who goes to the store and is bumped while on the walkway, and the man who is bumped - in his mind/ thinks this guy what is his problem; in his heart/ I am gonna get this guy; in his soul he then begins to act in the flesh; and grabs the jacket of the guy who just bumped into him on the walk way. Was this a Christian way (meaning by the spirit) to handle this situation? No not at all, the soul (mind/will/emotion) was involved in hatred towards someone who accidently bumped into him, thus the grabbing of the jacket, and perhaps scolding for no real reason afterwards.
There are spirits out there I do believe - Spirit of Hatred, Spirit of Lust, Spirit of Maliciousness, Spirit of Greed, Spirit of Whatever you can think of here.
However from what the bible says about Satan, he was prince of the world when he offered everything to the Lord Jesus Christ, however Jesus had proceeded to say he would be cast out of this world - in that age back then, so this is why I tend to believe, that everything happened with-in the generation Jesus had promised to come back to, and that the end of material religion would be instated with no more geneologies, no more priesthood, no more temple sacrifices, all the end of the Material religion the Jewish people was destroyed, and that also includes the judgment of Satan, and those who were in hell, and the white throne judgement all dealt with the entire age itself, from the Jewish people, to the Gentiles, Satan and his Angels, The Beast, the False Prophet, in which leaves for Revelation 21-22 open for a person to consider for their own self between them and God, even teach if they desire, if lead by the Spirit.
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There you go contradicting yourself. If Satan is not present then there should be no darkness. But you are promoting darkness by denying his existence at the present time. The devil loves the fools who deny his reality.
Hello Enoch,
Darkness existed, before Satan made the choice to fall. That is why I suggest that Darkness is still here, as it has been ever since the beginning, do you remember the first chapter of Genesis?
God seen the darkness that was upon the deep.
chôshek
kho-shek'
From H2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: - dark (-ness), night, obscurity.
Darkness that God seen was: Distress; dread, terror, mourning, perplexity, confusion, ignorance, evil, sin, obscurity, blindness, and then said - Let there be light.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
That refers to physical darkness. There was no spiritual darkness then. On Day 7 He said everything was Good.
The Bible doesn't tell us exactly when Lucifer rebelled God, but it likely happened after creation and before sin came into the world. In Gen. 3 could have been quite some time from Day 7. Lucifer had already fell and was identified as a serpent, not the most glorious and beautiful of all angels.
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Totally okay to have your view and perspective and will respect you for your decision to see the way you do.
It is up to me to choose how to respond, and this is what is needed to be said. You are right the bible doesn't explain how he fell, my belief would be is perhaps Satan was looking out into the darkness, and made his decision to go against God. I do not know but either way it goes, as I had shared in the previous post you quoted, this would be my own personal view, in what my thoughts are on it because it does make sense to me.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Lucifer was the most glorious of God's creation, he was beautiful and numero uno. He had pride. When he realized that God was creating mam whom God would love more and eventually would be above him, that is when he turned rebellious. It was jealous envy towards God's creation of man. His pride got the best of him. But of course, this was jobsurprise to God, He knew this would happen and it was part the plan. He put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden, so evil already existed at least in God's mind ... Some Paradise ... perfect? Well with the potential of evil entering into reality by an act of disobedience (a the bite of a fruit from a forbidden tree) AND the Serpent allowed in there to tempt them, doesn't sound like a perfect place to me. It sounds like a accident waiting to happen, a set up. In order to know good and appreciate it we need to also know evil.Totally okay to have your view and perspective and will respect you for your decision to see the way you do.
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What if God chose what he would do if his creation disobeyed? There is an scholar named Adam clarke who explained his take is perhaps God set up angels to guard the Garden of Eden, and perhaps one of those Angels happened to Satan (I do not use lucifer as Satans name), anyway as Satan had entered Judas, perhaps Satan actually took on the form of an animal in the same likeness of a human, as serpent can mean observer. This is a possibility as well. Perhaps Satan took on by entering into an Ape (they eat the bugs from the dust of the earth), and spoke what it did to Eve.
I believe I have heard of the version you saying "Like God set the whole thing up to go wrong," But perhaps it was all the decision of free-will choices, and God knew how he would handle it when it did finally happen.
Even though we learn just a little bit about Satan in Job, is interesting but the biggest take away is even though his friends, and wife told Job to just go against God, Job never lost Faith that Job did not do anything wrong in putting God first, and through all those trials, Job was blessed x10 by God for not going against him. Job also lived in UZ, I think that is where Abraham was from. Job is considered the oldest book of the bible, that is something to take in consideration as well, from my perspective. Thank you to anyone who decides to share.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Well there are mysteries about what happened and so we can only speculate about the unknowns.
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