Subjective Religions and the Objective Gospel

[Robert Pate]

All religions have one thing in common, they are about us who are sinners. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ. We are the beneficiaries of the Gospel, not the instigators. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born.

Paul said, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Does that sound like we had something to do with our salvation? We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. Our salvation took place totally and completely outside of ourselves. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Were you there when that happened? Of course not. Jesus reconciled us and the world unto God by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Jesus is God's new Adam and our representative, Romans 5:18-19. The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. This is why Paul said, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

Christian justification is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ has victoriously met every demand of God's Holy Law. He did this in our name and on our behalf, Romans 3:26. This justification is ours by simple child like faith in Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Plus nothing. The reason that justification is by faith alone is because justification is by Christ alone. Sinners (Those born after Adam) cannot justify themselves. This is where Catholics and Protestants part company. Catholic justification is very subjective. Catholics believe that "Man is justified by an intrinsic righteousness which God puts within man". If this were true, which it is not, then there was no need for the incarnation. God could have sent his Spirit into the world and infused it into believers, and this would have made them holy. This doctrine is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ and is under the judgment of God.

In the Gospel, "Christ is the end of the law (religion) for righteousness" Romans 10:4. In the Gospel all sin has been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. This was an objective event (outside of us). Where there is no law there is no sin, Romans 4:15. Where there is a full atonement for sin, there is no condemnation, Romans 8:1. It appears to me that Catholics and others are in complete denial of the Gospel and justification by faith without the works of the law. Since salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8, without works, laws or religion what does this mean for those that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation and are trying to save themselves through works, laws and religion?

 

[Windmillcharge]

All religions have one thing in common, they are about us who are sinners

Or another way of looking at it.
All religions require the worshipper to earn merit, to deserve blessing or salvation.
It is only Christianity that says you cannot please God, so recieve from God salvation, undeserved, u earn but freely given.

 

[Robert Pate]

Or another way of looking at it.
All religions require the worshipper to earn merit, to deserve blessing or salvation.
It is only Christianity that says you cannot please God, so recieve from God salvation, undeserved, u earn but freely given.

Right. Salvation is a free gift from God, Ephesians 2:8. A lot of people are to proud to receive the free gift of salvation, they want to earn it.

 

[Arthur81]

All religions have one thing in common, they are about us who are sinners. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ. We are the beneficiaries of the Gospel, not the instigators. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born.

Paul said, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Does that sound like we had something to do with our salvation? We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. Our salvation took place totally and completely outside of ourselves. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Were you there when that happened? Of course not. Jesus reconciled us and the world unto God by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Jesus is God's new Adam and our representative, Romans 5:18-19. The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. This is why Paul said, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

Christian justification is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ has victoriously met every demand of God's Holy Law. He did this in our name and on our behalf, Romans 3:26. This justification is ours by simple child like faith in Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Plus nothing. The reason that justification is by faith alone is because justification is by Christ alone. Sinners (Those born after Adam) cannot justify themselves. This is where Catholics and Protestants part company. Catholic justification is very subjective. Catholics believe that "Man is justified by an intrinsic righteousness which God puts within man". If this were true, which it is not, then there was no need for the incarnation. God could have sent his Spirit into the world and infused it into believers, and this would have made them holy. This doctrine is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ and is under the judgment of God.

In the Gospel, "Christ is the end of the law (religion) for righteousness" Romans 10:4. In the Gospel all sin has been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. This was an objective event (outside of us). Where there is no law there is no sin, Romans 4:15. Where there is a full atonement for sin, there is no condemnation, Romans 8:1. It appears to me that Catholics and others are in complete denial of the Gospel and justification by faith without the works of the law. Since salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8, without works, laws or religion what does this mean for those that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation and are trying to save themselves through works, laws and religion?

Robert, an excellent OP! It seems Catholics wish to blend sanctification with justification; but justification is an instantaneous declaration of God based on the active and passive obedience of Jesus Christ in the place of the elect. Sanctification in the sense of being made holy is a process over our lifetime. The sad thing is, many who claim to not be Catholics are also blending sanctification into justification making works or law meritorious.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, an excellent OP! It seems Catholics wish to blend sanctification with justification; but justification is an instantaneous declaration of God based on the active and passive obedience of Jesus Christ in the place of the elect. Sanctification in the sense of being made holy is a process over our lifetime. The sad thing is, many who claim to not be Catholics are also blending sanctification into justification making works or law meritorious.

You are right. Catholics mix sanctification with justification. The Bible does not do that, neither should we.

 

[brightfame52]

All religions have one thing in common, they are about us who are sinners. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ. We are the beneficiaries of the Gospel, not the instigators. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born.

Paul said, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Does that sound like we had something to do with our salvation? We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. Our salvation took place totally and completely outside of ourselves. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Were you there when that happened? Of course not. Jesus reconciled us and the world unto God by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Jesus is God's new Adam and our representative, Romans 5:18-19. The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. This is why Paul said, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

Christian justification is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ has victoriously met every demand of God's Holy Law. He did this in our name and on our behalf, Romans 3:26. This justification is ours by simple child like faith in Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Plus nothing. The reason that justification is by faith alone is because justification is by Christ alone. Sinners (Those born after Adam) cannot justify themselves. This is where Catholics and Protestants part company. Catholic justification is very subjective. Catholics believe that "Man is justified by an intrinsic righteousness which God puts within man". If this were true, which it is not, then there was no need for the incarnation. God could have sent his Spirit into the world and infused it into believers, and this would have made them holy. This doctrine is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ and is under the judgment of God.

In the Gospel, "Christ is the end of the law (religion) for righteousness" Romans 10:4. In the Gospel all sin has been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. This was an objective event (outside of us). Where there is no law there is no sin, Romans 4:15. Where there is a full atonement for sin, there is no condemnation, Romans 8:1. It appears to me that Catholics and others are in complete denial of the Gospel and justification by faith without the works of the law. Since salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8, without works, laws or religion what does this mean for those that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation and are trying to save themselves through works, laws and religion?

Did Jesus Christ save those He died for ? You should know if you preaching the Gospel, what did Christs Death accomplish and for whom did He accomplish it for ?

 

[St. SteVen]

All religions have one thing in common, they are about us who are sinners. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ. We are the beneficiaries of the Gospel, not the instigators. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born.

I find it interesting the way Christians speak about other religions as if they have actually studied them and understand them.
When pressed, we find that those with these views have no real basis for them other than what Christianity has told them.

I heard someone the other day that had studied these things, He had an interesting comment.
He said that all the world religions claim to have inspired scriptures. Hmm... interesting.
I haven't confirmed that, but it makes sense.

Sacred Texts Of Major World Religions

www.worldatlas.com

 

[Episkopos]

All religions have one thing in common, they are about us who are sinners. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ. We are the beneficiaries of the Gospel, not the instigators. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born.

The gospel today is that we have access to the same power that changed the world 2,000 years ago. We have access to that grace through faith.

Paul said, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Does that sound like we had something to do with our salvation? We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. Our salvation took place totally and completely outside of ourselves. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Were you there when that happened? Of course not. Jesus reconciled us and the world unto God by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Jesus is God's new Adam and our representative, Romans 5:18-19. The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. This is why Paul said, "You are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

When we enter into Him...we are no longer walking in our own carnal strength. If we continue to walk in an uncrucified state we will sin, like any other person...whether we want to or not. Outside of Christ we are weak and sinful. Salvation is not about us and what we can do....it is however what we DO through Christ. We will be judged by what we DO.

Otherwise all people are saved because of Christ. He died for the sins of the whole world. Those who believe INTO Him walk as He walked

What's the difference between those who are saved and those who aren't? Beliefs? NO...It's about what WE do.

God is not looking for an orthodoxy....but an orthopraxy. Practicing the truth...walking in the truth...not just mentally affirming a dogmatic stance. As Paul says...not just hearers but doers.

Christian justification is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ has victoriously met every demand of God's Holy Law. He did this in our name and on our behalf, Romans 3:26. This justification is ours by simple child like faith in Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Plus nothing.

false. The justification of faith involves God accepting us into the higher walk...just like the early believers who walked in God's power. By grace through faith.

Otherwise...without God's visitation, we are simply justifying ourselves for our own beliefs about justification. A mental and vicious circle game.

The reason that justification is by faith alone is because justification is by Christ alone. Sinners (Those born after Adam) cannot justify themselves. This is where Catholics and Protestants part company.

But now we can justify ourselves because of Christ? Many Protestants indeed justify themselves...and then judge others. It's a new crop of Pharisees...nothing less.

Catholic justification is very subjective. Catholics believe that "Man is justified by an intrinsic righteousness which God puts within man". If this were true, which it is not, then there was no need for the incarnation. God could have sent his Spirit into the world and infused it into believers, and this would have made them holy. This doctrine is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ and is under the judgment of God.

False. We will all be judged for a life lived. What we have done with what we have been given.

Jesus was incarnated to raise us up to walk like He did. He came to set us free from sin...not just be forgiven in our fallen state. One who walks IN Christ is no longer in that fallen state (sinner)....that person walks as Jesus did...holy, sinless, and blameless.

In the Gospel, "Christ is the end of the law (religion) for righteousness" Romans 10:4. In the Gospel all sin has been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. This was an objective event (outside of us). Where there is no law there is no sin, Romans 4:15. Where there is a full atonement for sin, there is no condemnation, Romans 8:1. It appears to me that Catholics and others are in complete denial of the Gospel and justification by faith without the works of the law. Since salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8, without works, laws or religion what does this mean for those that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation and are trying to save themselves through works, laws and religion?

That's precisely what so many are doing...looking to be "saved" through religion....A "Christian" religion...a religion that has no power except giving lip-service to God. Reading the bible doesn't save you, pointing to Jesus doesn't save you. But faith that God accepts, translates us into the kingdom realm of the Spirit...there to walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil.

Amen

 

[St. SteVen]

What's the difference between those who are saved and those who aren't? Beliefs? NO...It's about what WE do.

It oftentimes sounds as though you are promoting salvation by works.
I'm guessing that is a misunderstanding on our part?

God is not looking for an orthodoxy....but an orthopraxy. Practicing the truth...waking in the truth...not just mentally affirming a dogmatic stance. As Paul says...not just hearers but doers.

You meant James, correct? - LOL

James 1:22 NKJV
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

 

[Episkopos]

It oftentimes sounds as though you are promoting salvation by works.
I'm guessing that is a misunderstanding on our part?

I preach a gospel that has the power to walk like Jesus walked...in His holiness...above sin. It's a gospel that "works" as opposed to the very carnal belief that God prefers one person's sins over another.

But most have no faith at all in God...they think they will ALWAYS sin and walk without God's overcoming power. Unbelief is rampant.

The gospel is that we can enter INTO Christ and be where He is...walking in HIS power, Love, joy, peace, ....and holiness

You meant James, correct? - LOL

James 1:22 NKJV
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Most bible enthusiasts think Paul was kidding when he said we need to be doers of the word. But that's the opposite of the truth. Jesus said that those who build on the rock are DOERS of the word.

 

[Episkopos]

An objective gospel is one where a person is not the one declaring to be justified by his/her beliefs. The whole modern religious version of Christianity fails to make any mark in eternity. God is NOT being consulted. It's a scam of epic proportions.

 

[St. SteVen]

But most have no faith at all in God...they think they will ALWAYS sin and walk without God's overcoming power. Unbelief is rampant.

The gospel is that we can enter INTO Christ and be where He is...walking in HIS power, Love, joy, peace, ....and holiness

What are the consequences of failure in your view?

 

[St. SteVen]

An objective gospel is one where a person is not the one declaring to be justified by his/her beliefs.

Is our justification through the finished work of the atonement on our behalf sufficient in your view?

 

[Episkopos]

What are the consequences of failure in your view?

The same as the Israelites who failed the grace of God....God rejected them and will reject us as well. I don't think people take God seriously at all. No fear of God. It's the sign of the times, really. Just like Joshua and Caleb could not convince the people that God could give them the victory...because of unbelief...the same thing is happening today. People say I preach works because the land is ACTUALLY being entered into...and that is seen as impossible. So then it must be a vain attempt they suppose in their limited minds.

I thank God that the stubborn cannot receive the gospel. It's an amazing thing that so many refuse to believe...who call themselves believers.

That's what you get when God has no say in the matter. People just read the bible and name it claim it...presume and assume they are what God is looking for.

 

[Episkopos]

Is our justification through the finished work of the atonement on our behalf sufficient in your view?

Wrong question. We need to be ACCEPTED by God into the BELOVED for our justification to be vetted. This comes from God Himself...not from the mind of the enthusiast.

No one can claim for himself/herself the justification based on the atonement...anybody can make a false claim. It is God who judges...not us. It's not about us.

 

[Behold]

All religions have one thing in common, they are about us who are sinners.

Actually there are many religions that dont believe in "sin".

Scientology and Gnosticism are 2, for example.

 

[Behold]

Wrong question. We need to be ACCEPTED by God into the BELOVED for our justification to be vetted.

God only accepts, forgives, and redeems = humanity through the Cross of Christ., one Believer at a time.

John 14:6

Your self effort and self righteousness not apply to that position.

 

[St. SteVen]

We need to be ACCEPTED by God into the BELOVED for our justification to be vetted.

Not sure how we could ever be "acceptable", other than "Just as I am... without one plea..." (as the song goes)

 

[Episkopos]

Not sure how we could ever be "acceptable", other than "Just as I am... without one plea..." (as the song goes)

How did Abel get accepted? And why didn't Cain? Why was Cain jealous of his brother? If they were like modern believers they would have both just assumed that they were accepted. Modern believers think that God gives them the choice if they are saved or not. The whole modern church is based on presumptions...not connection to the living God. Instead the bible is seen as a rubber stamp machine. Now people have been conditioned to believe that somehow we have to accept Jesus...rather than the other way round. Once WE accept Jesus we are then somehow to be able to justify ourselves legally...and somehow not be just like the Pharisees who did exactly the same thing with Moses.

 

[brightfame52]

Not sure how we could ever be "acceptable", other than "Just as I am... without one plea..." (as the song goes)

Those who Christ died for were chosen in Christ and accepted in Him before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.