Sugar coating hell - the bitter pill

[St. SteVen]

Without free will there's no such thing as love. Love by it's very nature can't be forced or coerced.

Would you incinerate your toddler if they rejected you?

Maybe God is capable of being a big person too?
Or do you think he reacts like an eight year old with a temper tantrum problem?
A cosmic spoiled brat? Maybe we should be more realistic about God.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Mt 7 Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be who find it.

Does God make sport of our souls? Few there be that find it?
Is salvation obtained by solving a nearly unsolvable puzzle?
The free gift of eternal life is earned from playing a high-stakes game with God?
Does that fit with the rest of your doctrine and theology?
Perhaps the narrow way leads to benefit in this life. Nothing to do with the afterlife.

/

 

[Jack]

Does God make sport of our souls? Few there be that find it?
Is salvation obtained by solving a nearly unsolvable puzzle?
The free gift of eternal life is earned from playing a high-stakes game with God?
Does that fit with the rest of your doctrine and theology?
Perhaps the narrow way leads to benefit in this life. Nothing to do with the afterlife.

Yeah, FEW! Jesus said so. Kind of like Noah and his. Kind of like Lot and his. FEW indeed!

Referring to salvation:

Luke 13:23-24
23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

 

[Jack]

I know that God will be fair on Judgment Day. That's what matters!

 

[St. SteVen]

Yeah, FEW! Jesus said so. Kind of like Noah and his. Kind of like Lot and his. FEW indeed!

Referring to salvation:

Luke 13:23-24
23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Well done. You have a biblical basis. Now what?
You are accusing God of making sport with our souls.
What sort of god have you created? An angry volcano god?

/

 

[Jack]

Well done. You have a biblical basis. Now what?

What's wrong with believing the written Word of God, the Bible?

You are accusing God of making sport with our souls.

I did? Quote me.

What sort of god have you created? An angry volcano god?

No, I just believe God of the Bible who drowned all but 8 and burned Sodom alive "making them an example".

 

[St. SteVen]

I know that God will be fair on Judgment Day. That's what matters!

On that point we agree, thanks.
How do you see that working?

What bearing does this scripture have on the final judgement?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
You are accusing God of making sport with our souls.

I did? Quote me.

I did twice/ Posts #42 and #45. "Few there be that find it."
How is that not a game of hide and seek. Making sport.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

What's wrong with believing the written Word of God, the Bible?

That's not the problem. The problem is your thoughtless conclusions.

/

 

[Jack]

On that point we agree, thanks.
How do you see that working?

What bearing does this scripture have on the final judgement?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

/

I don't know anyone who obeys the Law of Moses.

 

[Jack]

St. SteVen said:
You are accusing God of making sport with our souls.

I did twice/ Posts #42 and #45. "Few there be that find it."
How is that not a game of hide and seek. Making sport.

/

I quoted Jesus. Ask Him.

 

[Jack]

That's not the problem. The problem is your thoughtless conclusions.

/

Believing and quoting Jesus is "thoughtless conclusions"? He's the One who drowned all but 8 and burned all of Sodom but 4.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't know anyone who obeys the Law of Moses.

Right.
I think this is referring to God's law, not the law of Moses.
The law on our human conscience. The law BEFORE the law.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I quoted Jesus. Ask Him.

If someone told you that your best friend was torturing people in his basement would you believe them?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Believing and quoting Jesus is "thoughtless conclusions"? He's the One who drowned all but 8 and burned all of Sodom but 4.

So you believe God is a genocidal tyrant with an anger management problem?
Yes, that seems like a thoughtless conclusion.

We believe whatever the church tells us, because they also informed us that we will be incinerated if we don't.

--- PARODY ---

Person #1: Receive the free gift of eternal life.
Person #2: No thanks.
Person #1: I said it was free.
Person #2: There must be some strings attached.
Person #1: Well, of course.
Person #2: It's not a free gift then, right?
Person #1: You had better take it... or else!
Person #2: Say what?
Person #1: Otherwise you will be incinerated!
Person #2: What sort of free gift is that?

Indeed.

/

 

[Jack]

If someone told you that your best friend was torturing people in his basement would you believe them?

/

Well God is my best friend and the Bible clearly confirms the wrath of God much more than the love of God. I hope you're not saying the Bible is wrong?

 

[Jack]

So you believe God is a genocidal tyrant with an anger management problem?
Yes, that seems like a thoughtless conclusion.

No, I believe the OT and NT that confirms the Genesis flood when God drowned all but 8, "making them an example".

 

[St. SteVen]

I hope you're not saying the Bible is wrong?

More likely or understanding of it is wrong. Caused by poor and biased translation work.
Like this.

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

No, I believe the OT and NT that confirms the Genesis flood when God drowned all but 8, "making them an example".

Sometimes the Bible uses legends as if they are real.
What was the "rock that accompanied them"? (a Hebrew legend)
The original rolling stone. - LOL

1 Corinthians 10:3-5 NIV
They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink;
for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them,
and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them;
their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

/

 

[Jack]

More likely or understanding of it is wrong. Caused by poor and biased translation work.
Like this.

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

/

So your argument is the Bible is wrong. I guess that lets out salvation too.