The 144,000 before God at the end.

[ewq1938]

A spirit is not a ghost type of entity.

Yes it is.

You can’t be serious!

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is a spirit! Does God have a body?

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Obviously He does. You are confusing contexts. Christ was saying he was not a spirit or a ghost and proved it by showing he had a physical body. God is a spirit ie: The holy spirit which is a bodiless spirit but different than an Earthly ghost.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Yes it is.







Obviously He does. You are confusing contexts. Christ was saying he was not a spirit or a ghost and proved it by showing he had a physical body. God is a spirit ie: The holy spirit which is a bodiless spirit but different than an Earthly ghost.

Earthy ghost… just making up crap. Where in the Bible is there a such thing as an earthly ghost.?

 

[ewq1938]

Earthy ghost… just making up crap. Where in the Bible is there a such thing as an earthly ghost.?

Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[rwb]

Of course. But only the chosen saints of the Old Testament and the New Testament in Christ.

That's why the prophetic words of Christ have dual fulfillment. The Old Covenant faithful saints represented the Church as She existed through Israel before the coming of the Messiah. Just as the New Covenant faithful saints represent the Church as She exists throughout the world or Gentile nations, since Christ has come. Neither of these representations of the Church in the world are perfect bodies consisting only of true believers in Christ, the Messiah. Therefore, as a whole the Church of Old and the Church of New shall experience consequences for turning away from God and committing spiritual adultery and apostacy. What happens to Israel, which Christ clearly warned, is an example of what shall happen when the universal Church on earth is found guilty for the same sins.

The Old Covenant Congregation was already an abomination in the eyes of God when Christ came to earth a man. The judgment that came against them, Christ warns shall also come against the universal Church on earth. The elect remnant of Old who were saved by grace through faith were spared the wrath of God that came against the nation, but the nation as the representative of the Church on earth was utterly destroyed, and shall be no more the representative of God on earth. The same thing will happen to the universal Church on earth under the New Covenant. The elect throughout the earth, will be spared from the wrath of God that shall come, but the Church on earth shall be utterly destroyed. These things are written to be an example for us.

In His Olivet Discourse Christ warns of not only what was to come of both the saints of Old Covenant Israel, as well as the utter destruction of the physical city and temple, He also warns His disciples of what was to come to them as well as to the New Covenant Church. If we try to read the prophetic words as being fulfilled in 70 AD, we are left unable to reconcile the inconsistencies that forces. But the same is true if we read the prophetic words as being fulfilled in the far distant future near and at the end of this age. The only way these inconsistencies can be reconciled is by understanding the prophesy through the Lense of dual fulfillment. So, what Christ spoke to His first century disciples have implications for them as well as His disciples living after them, and to the end of this age.

 

[Timtofly]

God is a spirit, spirits don’t have flesh, you people are nuts! To think there are people in heaven walking around with flesh bodies and blood types is insane.

Then Adam and Eve were just spirits without flesh and blood before they ate from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, according to you. They had no flesh.

Because the result of eating gave them a body of flesh that we call death (mortal) that is corruption.

Why did they not have a physical body to begin with? That makes no sense. Because what they had is what we will have in heaven. Jesus restores Adam's dead flesh back to eternal life.

Jesus always had the same body from conception to this very day. His body did not return to dust. It still has the wounds from the nails and spear. He showed them to Thomas days later. They did not transfer from an old body to a new body. How does that make sense? The body Jesus had is Adam's restored body. Now you have to declare Jesus was never physical from Mary's womb, but only spirit. Because Jesus only ever had 1 body.

We don't have 2 bodies. We have only the physical body. The current body returns to dust never to exist again. We put the physical body on from God, once we shed this physical body.

The spirit is not a body, so if Paul uses the word body, he is not referring to our spirit. We are a soul that needs both a body and spirit to be eternally alive as one being. Adam and Eve had a physical body and a spirit. When Adam disobeyed God, they physically and spiritually died. They lost that building from God and were give a tent of death. They went from life to death. They were complete spiritually and physically. After death the lost that permanent body and their spirit Now since Seth, we have been in a state of death with a body of death separated from the spirit that is also put on like a body.

Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 15 that those alive on the earth at the Second Coming put on both a physical body and the spirit.

The only clear reference to the spirit on over the physical body is Jesus on the mount called Transfiguration. That is where Jesus removed the spiritual blindness from the eyes of Peter, James, and John. They also could see Elijah and Moses in physical bodies.

 

[PinSeeker]

""About Noah being “removed” from anything, yes, and that it’s some kind of “example” of a “rapture,” yes.""

No and no.

Now you go to a new one "removed"??? Lol

You and your "colleagues" are the ones who created that false (and ridiculous) narrative.

I showed you he ascended and descended. All your dodging was in that concept.

Riiiiiiight, you "showed me," alright. LOL! No "dodging" necessary... LOL! You're the one in green here, Rebuilder:

You and your colleagues were convinced he DID NOT GO above the earth.

Nobody I know has ever said or insinuated in any way that Noah did not leave the ground. But he did so by very natural means ~ on the surface of the water, in a boat. :)

"The waters increased and bore up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the face of the waters" (Genesis 7:17-18)

Yes, no one here was ever "convinced otherwise" or has ever denied in any way that Noah "went above the earth." So your ranting and raving, is empty (and kind of humorous, in a dark sort of way). And, hey, Noah "came down" the same, very natural way:

"God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided. The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained, and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of 150 days the waters had abated, and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat" (Genesis 8:1-4).

You ALL had no idea what the bible said in backing up what i said.

Most of us are well aware of the twisting of Genesis to fit the false dispensational narrative.

Genesis says he left the earth.

Genesis said he was in the ark and floated on the water high above the ground, yes.

All of you got owned.

So you want to think. No matter. Just an empty assertion. :)

All i am doing is reporting the word and upsetting all of you.

Ah, yes, reporting... LOL! Well, in the sense that you are twisting it into something other than what it is, yes. When that is done, yes, it's... disconcerting.

Grace and peace to you, Rebuilder. Especially grace, for obvious reasons.

 

[TribulationSigns]

That's why the prophetic words of Christ have dual fulfillment. The Old Covenant faithful saints represented the Church as She existed through Israel before the coming of the Messiah. Just as the New Covenant faithful saints represent the Church as She exists throughout the world or Gentile nations, since Christ has come. Neither of these representations of the Church in the world are perfect bodies consisting only of true believers in Christ, the Messiah. Therefore, as a whole the Church of Old and the Church of New shall experience consequences for turning away from God and committing spiritual adultery and apostacy. What happens to Israel, which Christ clearly warned, is an example of what shall happen when the universal Church on earth is found guilty for the same sins.

Agreed. There is only One Woman Congregation Israel with kingdom representative for the Old Testament congregation before the Cross, and the New Testament congregation after the Cross (hint: not 70AD). You need to understand that the promise/covenant (Abram and His Seed) is with God's people, not the physical holy city or church made up of bricks and stones.

The Old Covenant Congregation was already an abomination in the eyes of God when Christ came to earth a man.

True.
Mat 23:37-38
(37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

The kingdom representative was taken from Israel, along with Christ's death, and given to the New Testament congregation in three days.

Mat 21:42-43
(42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

What nation did Christ give the kingdom representative to in THREE DAYS? The New Testament congregation "IS" the Holy Nation that brings forth the fruits (salvation among Gentiles) that the Lord talked about, 1st Peter 2:9.

Joh 2:18-21
(18) Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

The temple that the Lord talked about is actually His Congregation, the temple of his body. Because the Jews rejected the Messiah the Prince and put him to death, their kingdom representative ended and in three days, Christ rebuilt it. This was the beginning of New Testament congregation and God has empowered His people with the HOly Spirit at Pentecost to go forth to the world with Gospel. Nothing in Scripture has hint about the physical destruction of temple in 70AD, unless one with spiritual discernment will know what Temple and stones that Christ actually talked about. I conclude some people are just not spiritually minded and naturally look to the literal kingdom, literal temple, literal stones, and literal nation Israel. The only thing to change their mind is the spirit, and it is in short supply!

The judgment that came against them, Christ warns shall also come against the universal Church on earth.

Indeed. But God did NOT mean that the New Testament congregation will have their church buildings be physically destroyed like Jewish physical temple in your 70AD theory. No.

The elect remnant of Old who were saved by grace through faith were spared the wrath of God that came against the nation, but the nation as the representative of the Church on earth was utterly destroyed, and shall be no more the representative of God on earth.

Tell me, how did the Old Testament congregation destroy EXACTLY? Remember in order that the temple needed to be rebuilt in THREE DAYS, when was the Old Testament Temple destroyed? What temple is this? That is the question.

The same thing will happen to the universal Church on earth under the New Covenant. The elect throughout the earth, will be spared from the wrath of God that shall come, but the Church on earth shall be utterly destroyed. These things are written to be an example for us.

Sounds like you are expecting a physical destroy of New Testament congregation? All I read in scripture is that the New Testament congregation will fall into apostasy and desolate. The question is how? Will it be under spiritual deception or the physical burning of all churches on Earth?

In His Olivet Discourse Christ warns of not only what was to come of both the saints of Old Covenant Israel, as well as the utter destruction of the physical city and temple, He also warns His disciples of what was to come to them as well as to the New Covenant Church.

I disagree. The Olivet Discourse is prophesy for the New Testament congregation.

 

[PinSeeker]

Can you prove the sea of glass is on the earth?

Why would I do such a ridiculous thing, Timtofly? I have no idea what would spawn such a silly question...

"And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind."

"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

So those who got the victory end up on this sea of glass. No one stays on the earth to get a victory. Those who come down on white horses are these people on the sea of glass. They are waiting during this time, just like you claim souls are waiting somewhere for the Second Coming.

The only difference is that the church is in Paradise, and these people are waiting on a sea of glass that is not Paradise. They are not dead. They are very much alive, and getting the victory over what is going on down on the earth somewhere below.

They have physical harps and literally singing with physical lungs. They sing the song of Moses and deliverance. This sea of glass is their "ark of safety".

Hmm, another very interesting "take" on things... :) I'll just say this, that in both Revelation 4 and Revelation 15, the "sea of glass" is reminiscent of the Red Sea crossing and God’s power to subdue the chaos of the sea. The Israelites in Moses's day stood on the far shore of the Red Sea and observed the death of their enemies through God’s power. In the last days victorious saints likewise stand on the far side of their troubles and the persecutions of the Beast. And, as in Revelation 14:3, they take up a new song of victory, but it repeats the old song of Moses ~ God’s final victory recapitulates the earlier victory at the Red Sea.

If you want to say it is floating on the clouds, why not?

These people return from the sky on horses after the 42 months are up.

All of the deceased elect of God will return with Jesus ~ Jesus will bring them with Him ~ when He returns, yes. Christ does not literally return on a white horse, nor do the armies of heaven who follow Him in His return. He will return in the same way He ascended to heaven, as the two men in white robes said to Jesus's disciples after His ascension in Acts 1. The white horses of Revelation 19:11 and 19:14 are images of His coming in victory to rescue His people and His doing so in perfection and purity.

So how can you say, they all are still on the earth watching themselves come down from the sky?

I... never said any such ridiculous thing, Timtofly.

Why would they not descend with physical white horses?

See above.

Unless you think white horses are symbolic of some kind of airplane or air ship?

LOL! No... LOL! See above.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The Bible says there are two bodies.

1 Corinthians 15
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Two bodies! One natural one spiritual.

You say both are natural, that’s a pure a direct disrespect to the word.

Can you read?

Here it is again… There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Children can understand this.

TN, Paul speaks of the natural and spiritual natures. It really has nothing to do with physicality or lack thereof. The natural state of man is his/her deadness in sin, even in his/her... physicality... his/her physical body. The spiritual state of man is dependent upon the Holy Spirit "quickening it," or making it alive ~ making us alive by and in the Holy Spirit, which, for us born again Christians is a very present reality, even now, in our physical bodies. As Paul says in Ephesians 2:4-10...

"God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."​

In that way, we are new creations in spirit and spiritually alive, as Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:17...

"...if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."​

And when Jesus comes back, we ~ our spirits ~ will get our physical bodies back, but made new, as God says in Revelation 21:5. :) He says not "Behold, I am making all new things," but rather "Behold, I am making all things new."

Grace and peace to you.

 

[rwb]

Nothing in Scripture has hint about the physical destruction of temple in 70AD, unless one with spiritual discernment will know what Temple and stones that Christ actually talked about. I conclude some people are just not spiritually minded and naturally look to the literal kingdom, literal temple, literal stones, and literal nation Israel. The only thing to change their mind is the spirit, and it is in short supply!

This is not quite accurate. Because the physical destruction in 70 AD was foretold by Christ when the disciples pointed to the physical city and physical buildings. Yes, I realize and understand the spiritual fulfillment of these things through the crucifixion of Christ, but you cannot deny that Jerusalem did indeed come to physical ruin exactly as Christ foretold. That after coming to complete and utter spiritual ruin through the crucifixion of Christ. There is both a spiritual as well as physical fulfillment for the nation of Old.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is not quite accurate. Because the physical destruction in 70 AD was foretold by Christ when the disciples pointed to the physical city and physical buildings. Yes, I realize and understand the spiritual fulfillment of these things through the crucifixion of Christ, but you cannot deny that Jerusalem did indeed come to physical ruin exactly as Christ foretold. That after coming to complete and utter spiritual ruin through the crucifixion of Christ. There is both a spiritual as well as physical fulfillment for the nation of Old.

Sounds like the Jews of Christ's day when they thought Christ was talking about a physical temple that takes 46 years to build. Similarly, in Matthew 24:1-2, the disciples thought that Christ was talking about the physical destruction of the temple and the city, but that was not what He meant. In Christ's eyes, the stones of the temple represent the people of the congregation, who are part of His body, that was fallen.

Premillennialists and Preterists tend to be obsessed with physical temple, whether it is the one that was destroyed in 70 AD or a future third temple. They build their doctrines around it simply because they have carnal minds -- like the Jews! There is nothing more I can say to you since I have explained many times, except that it is up to God to reveal things to you like He had with me. Selah!

 

[Truth7t7]

144,000 is symbolic of the Body of Christ

Scripture strongly suggest that the 144,000 is the remnant church that will be localized to Jerusalem, and ethnic to the location Israel, "the remnant of his heritage"

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

Below you see the future fulfilling of the gentiles and desolation in Jerusalem, armies from the worlds nations, from sea to sea

Below you see the Remnant Church being fed in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, Gilead, manna from heaven, as in the days of old in coming out of Egypt, the world watches in fear of the Lords power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:10-18KJV
10 Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the Lord thy God? mine eyes shall behold her: now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets.
11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is not quite accurate. Because the physical destruction in 70 AD was foretold by Christ when the disciples pointed to the physical city and physical buildings. Yes, I realize and understand the spiritual fulfillment of these things through the crucifixion of Christ, but you cannot deny that Jerusalem did indeed come to physical ruin exactly as Christ foretold. That after coming to complete and utter spiritual ruin through the crucifixion of Christ. There is both a spiritual as well as physical fulfillment for the nation of Old.

Jesus spoke symbolically of the temple being destroyed in Matthew 24:2, not a literal destruction as seen in 70AD, John's account is seen below, with greater information and detail

When Jesus Christ died on Calvary, the veil in the temple was rent/torn, the temple was destroyed, gone in the spiritual, never to be seen again

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

John 14:18-21KJV
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

 

[Truth7t7]

In Christ's eyes, the stones of the temple represent the people of the congregation, who are part of His body, that was fallen.

Jesus explained the destruction of the temple as being his body, at the death of Jesus Christ the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom in the holy of holies, the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, gone, no longer in existence or needed in the spiritual

Jesus Christ ,his shed blood upon calvary, the resurrection, and ascension to the right hand of the father, has replaced the temple that was in Jerusalem, that was destroyed in the spiritual before 70AD just as he told the pharisees

Revelation 21:22KJV
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

John 14:18-21KJV
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

 

[rwb]

Sounds like the Jews of Christ's day when they thought Christ was talking about a physical temple that takes 46 years to build. Similarly, in Matthew 24:1-2, the disciples thought that Christ was talking about the physical destruction of the temple and the city, but that was not what He meant. In Christ's eyes, the stones of the temple represent the people of the congregation, who are part of His body, that was fallen.

Premillennialists and Preterists tend to be obsessed with physical temple, whether it is the one that was destroyed in 70 AD or a future third temple. They build their doctrines around it simply because they have carnal minds -- like the Jews! There is nothing more I can say to you since I have explained many times, except that it is up to God to reveal things to you like He had with me. Selah!

Christ speaking of the Jews holy city and temple was indeed speaking of its utter literal destruction, and that prophesy was fulfilled in 70 AD. Christ also spoke to His first century Jewish disciples, as well as His disciples in every age, of Him giving His life on the cross, and telling us His body is the True Temple that would be destroyed. But we are not to fear because after three days He would be alive again. When His body was crucified the prophetic words He spoke were spiritually fulfilled, and after His resurrection understood by His disciples. His disciples heeded His Word and were not killed by the siege the Roman Army brought against the physical city, by fleeing as the Lord had told them they should. By this they lived to make more disciples for Christ, allowing the Gospel to spread to every nation of the earth.

John 2:21-22 (KJV) But he spake of the temple of his body. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I agree Preterits especially do err in believing the Olivet Discourse was given to show what would happen only to an ethnic people, called Israel. Like you, they don't understand how the prophesy to make sense must be understood with dual fulfillment for both the spiritual warfare that would come against His disciples as they take the Gospel unto all the nations of the earth, as well as the physical fulfillment that made a complete and utter end of the Old Covenant city and their holy temple.

After the cross and resurrection ethnic Jews living in the first century AD were given this time between the advent of Christ and the destruction of the city and temple to be saved. Because the way to God for those Jews alive then could not be known as long as the Old temple stood. During the time of Christ the Old Covenant Jewish people were conflicted between believing there was still a way to God for them through the Law, and the New Covenant through Christ. It was only after the complete and utter destruction of the Old that the way to God for them would be made known through the Holy Spirit in the same way that people from every nation of the earth have access to God through Christ.

Hebrews 9:8-12 (KJV) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

That's why the prophesy must be understood as having both a spiritual and literal/physical fulfillment given to both Old Covenant Jews as well as New Covenant Gentiles throughout the world. When understood as both literal and spiritual there is no conflict or contradiction forced into Scripture.

 

[rwb]

Jesus spoke symbolically of the temple being destroyed in Matthew 24:2, not a literal destruction as seen in 70AD, John's account is seen below, with greater information and detail

When Jesus Christ died on Calvary, the veil in the temple was rent/torn, the temple was destroyed, gone in the spiritual, never to be seen again

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

John 14:18-21KJV
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

If you're following my replies to TS you'll know why I believe the Olivet Discourse must be discerned as dual fulfillment. The prophesy is not only literally fulfilled against the apostate nation, it is also being spiritually fulfilled for the disciples of Christ in every age.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No and no.


You and your "colleagues" are the ones who created that false (and ridiculous) narrative.


Riiiiiiight, you "showed me," alright. LOL! No "dodging" necessary... LOL! You're the one in green here, Rebuilder:

Nobody I know has ever said or insinuated in any way that Noah did not leave the ground. But he did so by very natural means ~ on the surface of the water, in a boat. :)

"The waters increased and bore up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the face of the waters" (Genesis 7:17-18)

Yes, no one here was ever "convinced otherwise" or has ever denied in any way that Noah "went above the earth." So your ranting and raving, is empty (and kind of humorous, in a dark sort of way). And, hey, Noah "came down" the same, very natural way:

"God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided. The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained, and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of 150 days the waters had abated, and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat" (Genesis 8:1-4).


Most of us are well aware of the twisting of Genesis to fit the false dispensational narrative.


Genesis said he was in the ark and floated on the water high above the ground, yes.


So you want to think. No matter. Just an empty assertion. :)


Ah, yes, reporting... LOL! Well, in the sense that you are twisting it into something other than what it is, yes. When that is done, yes, it's... disconcerting.

Grace and peace to you, Rebuilder. Especially grace, for obvious reasons.

Nope and nope.
I SAID the ark was CARRIED OR ROSE above the earth into the sky.
You misrepresenting me is pretty sad friend.
I reported what the bible says.
You cannot take it.
It is flat out comical how you and others stumble so mightily at a basic fact and no brainer.
All of you made fools of yourselves
It is so funny the FACT of the parallels to the pretrib rapture and the framing of the flood story by Jesus is against your beliefs
Both lot and noah are framed together in prejudgement dynamics
But that takes apart your theory , so you stumble at the word of God.

Mock the bible all you want.

""Genesis said he was in the ark and floated on the water high above the ground, yes.
So you want to think. No matter. Just an empty assertion""

Too funny.
"An empty assertion "...ahem, THE WORD OF GOD, has you completely twisted into a pretzel.

YOU now agree , but need 10 paragraphs of disclaimers how you previously ignorantly were untaught but can not admit you were wrong
:) :) :)

 

[David in NJ]

Scripture strongly suggest that the 144,000 is the remnant church that will be localized to Jerusalem, and ethnic to the location Israel, "the remnant of his heritage"

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

Below you see the future fulfilling of the gentiles and desolation in Jerusalem, armies from the worlds nations, from sea to sea

Below you see the Remnant Church being fed in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, Gilead, manna from heaven, as in the days of old in coming out of Egypt, the world watches in fear of the Lords power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:10-18KJV
10 Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the Lord thy God? mine eyes shall behold her: now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets.
11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

Scripture has confirmed who the 144,000 is symbolic of = His Bride the Church


Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The ark was not lifted FROM the earth! It never left the earth that was flooded by water. Do you believe ships that sail upon the seas leave the earth when they are water bound? Of course not! The ark was a type of Christ saving them BY/THROUGH water. Just as Christ is not literally an ark, neither is literal water that which saves us. We will only be caught up to meet the Lord in the air IF in life we have been saved by/through the water of His Word and Spirit before He comes again.

lol.
Then the bible came to refute your assertion and beliefs.
Now 300 sentences later you still have not admitted your error.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you're following my replies to TS you'll know why I believe the Olivet Discourse must be discerned as dual fulfillment. The prophesy is not only literally fulfilled against the apostate nation, it is also being spiritually fulfilled for the disciples of Christ in every age.

I disagree with your claim of dual fulfillment

The temple being destroyed was the Lord's symbolic body dying on Calvary

The rest of the Olivet discourse is future unfulfilled