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The beast that was and was not and yet is

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by shilohsfoal, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    What you fail to realize is that ALL can be grafted into the vine......

    Romans 11 tells us that for the sake of the Gentiles, the nation of Israel [all the tribes] would be blinded to the truth and would stumble. Their stumbling was not for the sake that they would fall, but that through their falling the remnant, which is God's elect would be able through Christ to graft into the tree of life, which is Jesus Christ.
    When you read in Revelation 21:24: "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

    "Nations" in the Greek is "ethnos" and is where our word "ethnic" comes from. These ethnic peoples are in the eternal age, after the Millennium and the Judgment and all evil has left the earth. This is concerning the nations blessed by Abraham's Seed. We see that there are kings of the nations, of the different races that are part of this eternal age of the eternal age. This gives absolute proof that there will be people amongst the Gentiles that do have eyes to see and ears to hear, and that will believe in Jesus Christ, and will be saved. These kings will become the election of their people that they will become kings in the eternity, under the King of kings. Each of the different peoples will have their own king, as well as Christ, only Israel will have only one king and He is Jesus Christ.

    Galatians 3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

    God created ever race and every soul is one of His children. Through Christ every soul has the right to come to God in repentance and receive eternal life, if they have that faith.

    Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
    When you were submerged in baptism, you were baptized into the death, burial, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. By making that public statement, you recognized that your sins were covered by the blood of Christ, and you are accepting that blood for the covering of all your sins. In doing so, you name them one by one to the Father, and then you let them go for your mind. To hang on to the guilt is to say that Christ's blood was not sufficient for your sins, and place yourself under the law again. It doesn't matter what sin you have committed, the Blood of Christ is sufficient to cover all sins, only you have to have the faith to accept that forgiveness, and release yourself from that guilt.

    Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
    We are all one body, in faith in Jesus Christ that have eternal life.

    Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
    There is a condition here now, and that condition is that you must believe in Christ and have faith to accept His promises that once you repent, your sins will be forgiven. When you have that faith, then you receive and can count on all the promises that He has made to us, for you and I become heirs to every promise in His Word. Friend, you can count on it.
    Though it makes us one in Christ, it still does not make us all of one race. This is not a racist statement, for in the Millennium age, as well as the eternity each soul of the ethnos remains of his own people, and Israel also remain of Israel, only in this age of the flesh we become one in the many membered body of Christ. Paul addressed this in Romans 12.

    Romans 12:4 "For we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:"

    Romans 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."

    Romans 12:6 "Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;"
    There would not be so many problems in the world today amongst the races, if people would understand this. God has a purpose for Israel, just as He has a purpose for all the Gentile peoples. Those purposes are written into the Word of God. However in eternal life, we all become one with Christ, possessing the promise which is the subject here, of the blessings of God.
     
  2. Israelsson

    Israelsson Israelsson

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    I find it funny how rather than defend your point of view with scripture, you choose to point your finger and call me a satan and an evil man. I have no hatred in my heart for any man, and Yahweh God has given me peace at heart. I view anyone that attacks me like you have been in nearly all of my posts. Its as if you have an agenda against anyone that doesn't stay inside your little box of universalism.
    I at least hope that you aren't someone that thinks all you have to do is believe in Jesus and you're going to go to heaven.

    Anyone wishing to side with this person, do so if you must. I did not come here to fit in, it is quite obvious that the so called Christian world is apostate in every sense of the word. I don't think any of you hecklers out there can really agree on anything between yourselves.

    "Straight is the path and narrow is the gate, and few there be that find it" FEW find it, not what the masses want you to believe.
     
  3. Israelsson

    Israelsson Israelsson

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    You speak as though you are a tribal leader, much like the children of the wicked one who had Christ crucified. What calling do you have? Are you a scribe in all earnest? Do you apply your every minute that you can to studying the Word?

    I believe that Christ. Yahweh manifest in the flesh, came to earth so that His bride, Israel, would be free to remarry at the marriage supper of the lamb.
    I believe that Christ is descended from Adam per the genealogies given in the bible.
    I believe that Adam was not the first man, nor was he necessarily the first white man, but rather the entire race itself.
    I believe that although all white people are Adamic by race, only the descendants of Israel are called to lead Yahshuas Church.
    Through this, all 'nations' of white adamic people are given salvation.
    The only other race known to have be created by Yahweh God is the 'beast of the field' or 'beast of the earth'. Whichever this is, is truly unknown. But all other races are a mixture of several races, an abominable sin according to Yahweh.
    Everything that God didn't declare as 'good' or that was 'planted on this earth will be destroyed in the end.
    A bastard(mamzer) shall not enter the Lords congregation until the 10th generation, if ever. That is why 'many are called but few are chosen'.
    You may very well be a mamzer, a mixed breed, hybrid.
     
  4. Cooter

    Cooter New Member

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    If you are one who always moves most of Prophesy to yet our future then the interpretation is limited only by your imagination. And these imaginary suppositions are myriad and appear and go with the daily newspaper. (The antichrist is a good example) The Book of Revelation was written to the first century Christians and to those who lived under the ruthless rule of Rome. This narrows the scope of interpretation to the period stated. Now there are only a few or even one possible fulfillment. We must always remember that we have to first discover what this book meant to the people to whom it was written in the context of their timeline. Then we can determine what it means to us today - in principle.

    Rev. 17:9-11 (NASB)
    "Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, [10] and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. [11] "And the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

    The first verse is easy and simple – Rome was built on seven hills. An indirect reference to the beast which was Rome – (also used for the Emperor). A chart of these Kings from that historical period is...

    1. Tiberius - fallen 1.

    2. Caligula - fallen 2.

    3. Claudius - fallen 3.

    4. Nero - one who was, is not, and is to come for a little, who also was an eighth, but was of the seven, making Nero both one of the seven and the eighth.

    5. Vespasian – fallen 4.

    6.Titus - fallen 5.

    7.Domitian - the one who is, Nero reincarnated, therefore an eighth – belonging to the seven, yet symbolically having Nero reincarnated in him making Domitian both a seventh and an eighth.

    The historical information you must know to understand this chart is the fact that it was a very common belief among the Romans in that day that Nero was expected to be reincarnated. The Nero redivivus or resurrection myth was widely and continually perpetuated for a period of over twenty years.

    William Durant said that Domitian ..."began like Gabriel and ended like Lucifer." Domitian reigned from AD 81-96. Something happened to change Domitians character in the year AD 86 after an attempted take over by Saturninus. Durant says that this was the turning point between his better and worse selves. He had always been coldly severe, but now he slipped into cruelty. He then filled the Capitol with statues of himself, announced the divinity of his father, brother, wife and sisters as well as himself. Set up a new order of priests (false prophet) to attend to the worship of these new deities and required officials to speak of him in their documents, as Dominus et Deus Noster – our Lord and God. This caused a general rebellion in the empire and was especially problematic to the Christians. It was in AD 93 that Domitian executed some Christians for refusing to offer sacrifice before his image. This was the beginning of the "incarnation" of Nero. Something that God foresaw and warned the early Christians about in the book of Revelation. Revelation was written before 93AD. Perhaps a year or two I don't know.

    Rome had a practice of dealing with the leadership first which could mean that John was the first to be dealt with in Asia Minor possibly in 92 maybe as late as 93. By the way Asia Minor had the highest concentration of Christians in the first Century (Eerdmans History) The interpretation given here also ties the writing of the book to the time of Domitian.

    Rev. 13:18 (NASB)
    Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

    1. It's something that you have to "Calculate" and it was common in that day to use numbers to represent letters. Not in our day.

    2. It is the number of "A" man – singular according to translations.

    3. The calculated (added) numbers of his name totals 666.

    Fr. Patrick J. Sena says that the Hebrew totals for Nero Caesar add up to 666 – but it is spelled Neron in Hebrew and not in the Latin used by the Romans which only uses one "N". Remember the writer John thought in Hebrew and Aramaic and translated to Greek in his writing. Some ancient manuscripts use 616 because they did not include the final Hebrew N of Neron (50) in their translation.

    So 666 indicates "Nero" who is now dead in the suggested time line. But the scripture says that the seventh now is, "Domitian" and the eighth is yet to come. It is saying that Domitian is on the throne, but his time of cruelty toward the Christians had not yet taken place and didn’t until 93 when he became reincarnated with the "spirit" of Nero. He then became the eighth. The end of Rev 17:11 says... and he goes to destruction. This is a Prophesy of the demise of Domitian in 96AD, who was assassinated. One would have to be very careful of making such statements under occupation. This of course is the reason for using apocalyptic language to encode the message of Revelation.

    And of course there is also the general understanding that six is the number of man and triple six means total depravity. But this given interpretation addresses every word of the Prophesy within the context of the historical record.

    Rev. 17:8 (NASB)
    "The beast that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will wonder, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.

    Again a reference to Domitian becoming cruel and starting to kill Christians in the spirit of Nero. This was the beginning of the second persecution by Rome and it started in 93AD.
     
  5. Israelsson

    Israelsson Israelsson

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    First, the NASB is one of the most corrupt translations of the KJV ever. It shouldn't even be allowed to be sold in stores or given away for that matter.


    This is a scripture comparison of NASB and KJV Bible passages, showing that the NASB was not properly translated. This is just a sample of the many verses in the NASB that change the Word of God dealing with the virgin birth of Christ, the deity of Christ, the infallibility of the Bible, salvation by faith, the Trinity, and many other areas of importance to the Christian Faith. While the NASB doesn't altogether do away with the subject of the deity of Christ, it attempts to downgrade it. Many verses are completely eliminated. Verses have been changed in every book. This is just a small sample of those verses. The NASB along with numerous other modern translations, is a product of Catholicism, endeavoring to corrupt the Bible of fundamental Bible believing Protestants, and to insert their own corrupt doctrines.

    Matthew 6:13 KJV "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen." NASB puts the last two phrases in brackets and says they are not in the oldest and best texts (which are the Catholic corrupted texts out of Alexandria Egypt). It's a lie that cannot be proven; in fact the opposite is easily proven. Many verses are done this way.
    Matthew 6:33 KJV "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." NASB "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you."
    Matthew 8:29 KJV "And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" NASB "And behold, they cried out, saying, "What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"" NASB leaves out the word 'Jesus.' Where is Jesus?
    Matthew 9:18 KJV "While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live." NASB "While He was saying these things to them, behold, there came a synagogue official, and bowed down before Him, saying, "My daughter has just died; but come and lay Your hand on her, and she will live."" The NASB changes 'Worshipped Him' to 'Bowed down before him'. Bowing down is not worship. You bow to the Queen of England in respect without worshipping her. If you don't want to admit Jesus is God, then you can't admit worship of Him.
    A few more similar verses:
    Matthew 20:20 KJV "Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him." NASB "Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Him with her sons, bowing down, and making a request of Him." The NASB changes 'worshipped him' to 'bowed down before him.'
    Mark 5:6 KJV "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him," NASB "And seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him;" The NASB changes 'worshipped him' to bowed down before him.'
    Matthew 4: 40 says 'Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.' Jesus accepted worship and admitted He was God! In Revelation 22:8-9 KJV "And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. {9} Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God." NASB "And I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. {9} And he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book; worship God."" John did not accept worship.
    Acts 10:25-26 KJV "And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. {26} But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man." NASB "And when it came about that Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. {26} But Peter raised him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am just a man."" Peter did not accept worship. Jesus did because He is God.
    Matthew 13:51 KJV "Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto Him, Yea, Lord." NASB ""Have you understood all these things?" They said to Him, "Yes."" NASB leaves out 'Jesus saith unto them' and 'Lord.' This is trying to do away with the divinity of Jesus and His Lordship.
    Matthew 16:20KJV "Then charged He his disciples that they should tell no man that He was Jesus the Christ." NASB "Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ." NASB leaves out "Jesus," as it does in numerous verses.
    Matthew 20:20 KJV "Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him. ." NASB "Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Him with her sons, bowing down, and making a request of Him." NASB again changes "worshipping" to "kneeling down."
    Matthew 25:13 KJV "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh." NASB ""Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour." NASB leaves out "wherein the Son of man cometh."
    Mark 1:14 KJV "Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God." NASB "And after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,"NASB leaves out 'of the kingdom'. It isn't the gospel of God, but of the kingdom of God.
    Mark 5:6 KJV "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him," NASB "And seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him;" NASB changes "worshipped" to "fell on his knees."
    Mark 9:24 KJV "And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." NASB "Immediately the boy's father cried out and began saying, "I do believe; help my unbelief."" NASB leaves out the reference to Jesus as "Lord."
    Mark 11:10 KJV "Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest." NASB "Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David; Hosanna in the highest!"" NASB changes it to: "Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David; hosanna in the highest." This is saying that His Kingdom hasn't come. Jesus is already sitting on the throne, at the right hand of the Father.
    Luke 4:8 KJV "And Jesus said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord they God, and him only shalt thou serve." NASB "And Jesus answered and said to him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"" NASB leaves out "Get thee behind me Satan."
    Luke 4:41 KJV "And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God ..." NASB "And demons also were coming out of many, crying out and saying, "You are the Son of God!" And rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ." NASB leaves out the reference to Jesus by the devils that He was "Christ."
    Luke 7:31 KJV "And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?" NASB ""To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like?" NASB leaves out "And the Lord said."
    Luke 11:2 KJV "And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth." NASB "And He said to them, "When you pray, say: 'Father, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come." He isn't "Our Father" but just Father, and He isn't in Heaven, because that tells you something of who He is and points to Him as the Heavenly Father, so both references to heaven are removed. He must be here on earth. The reason for this is that the New Agers and Catholics believe in the "universal fatherhood" of God. My Father or Our Father becomes "The Father." This can be seen in some of the verses below; John 10:30,32; 14:28, etc. He is Father to all, and with it is the "Brotherhood of man." Then what happened to His will! Most today want to do their own, and justify it, and say that is the way it is supposed to be, but not so. We are to say "If the Lord will. . ."
    James 4:15 KJV "For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that." Satan wants you to do his will, and not the Father's.
    Luke 11:4 KJV "And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil." NASB "'And forgive us our sins, For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.'"" Even Satanists and Eastern Mysticists desire cleansing from sin, and Satan desires to masquerade as the sin forgiver and destroyer. Example: From the Complete Book of Magic and Witchcraft, part of a Satanic ritual states: "Grant that I may be cleansed by this water from all my sins." So Satan doesn't take this part out. But think about it; why don't they want you to be delivered from evil? This is all part of the conspiracy. First they deny the existence of Satan. They say that Satan is not a person, but merely a "power of evil." Then they assert that Lucifer and the Devil are separate and distinct entities. Satan tries to hide his real identity, and hide behind other names. New Agers say that Satan is a figment of the Christians imagination. They point out that Lucifer means 'day-star' or 'light giver' and say that Lucifer is the brightest of God's angels. Albert Pike said, "Lucifer is God." That's the next step in the deception: claiming that Lucifer is a good angel or even God or Christ Himself.
    Luke 22:31 KJV "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat." NASB ""Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;" NASB leaves out "And the Lord said" and it changes "hath desired to have you" to "has demanded permission."
    Luke 23:42 KJV The thief on the cross spoke: "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." NASB "And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"" NASB changes it to "And he was saying, Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom." It leaves out the word "Lord" and puts his kingdom off into the future.
    Luke 24:51 KJV "And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven." NASB "And it came about that while He was blessing them, He parted from them." NASB leaves out "and carried up into heaven."
    John 1:18 KJV "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." NASB "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." NASB changes "only begotten Son" to "only begotten God" and changes "declared" to "explained".
    John 1:27 KJV "He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose." NASB ""It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."" NASB leaves out "preferred before me."
    John 3:13 KJV "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." NASB ""And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man." NASB leaves out "which is in heaven."
    John 9:35 KJV "Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" NASB "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"" NASB changes 'Dost thou believe on the Son of God?' to 'Do you believe in the Son of Man?' It does away with Christ's' divinity.
    John 10:30 KJV "I and my Father are one." NASB "I and the Father are one." Again, Satan is trying to do away with the Heavenly Father, and sit himself on the throne. These are some more of the verses doing away with the Personal "My" or "Our" Father for an impersonal one, as well as changing "Our Lord" and "My Lord" to "The Lord" in referring to Jesus. John 10:32 KJV "Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?" NASB Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"



    There are many, many more to add to that list, but it should be quite obvious that the NASB is a satanic attempt to infiltrate and make Christianity even more silly then it is today!(In mainstream 501(C) 3 tax exempt statue churches) I by no means think the KJV is infallible, as all copies of documents are fallible. Only the original texts are the inspired word of God, this is why one must 'study to show thyself approved'.

    Check out the Christogenea New Testament, it is a great translation of the NT, recently released from the publisher.

    By only viewing Revelation as history is wrong just as much as seeing it as all future events. Revelation is past, present and future, and rather than defend the Jews, do some research and take a little look into their Talmud, and check our how they control the world economies. The house of Rothschild IS the 8th beast, and it is alive and well in this modern age. Its blatantly obvious...
     
  6. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    To All,

    Please accept the inclusive "accepted" Historical sequence of Roman emperors, with the ~preferred~ assignment, -- and the Abbingdon Commentary assessment of the failure of that ~historical fulfillment~:


    -- 105 - 100 B.C Caius Marius
    -- 88 -79 B.C. Lucius Cornelius (Felix) Sulla or Sylla
    -- ? - 46 B.C. Caius Julius Caesar
    -- 46 - 31 B.C. both Julius Caesar Octavianus Augustus or Octavian and Marcus Antonius (Marc Antony)
    1. 27 B.C.-14 A.D. Julius Caesar Octavianus Augustus or Octavian
    2. 14 - 37 A.D. Tiberius Claudius Nero Caesar
    3. 37 - 41 A.D. Caius Caesar Caligula
    4. 41 - 54 A.D. Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus (Claudius)
    5. 54 - 68 A.D. Nero Claudius Caesar (Nero)
    -- 69 A.D. Servius Sulpicius Galba
    -- 69 A.D. Marcus Salvius Otho
    6. 69 - 79 A.D. Titus Flavius Sabinus Vespasianus (Vespasian)
    7. 79 - 81 A.D. Titus Flavius Sabinus Vespasianus (Jr.) (Titus)
    -- 81 - 96 A.D. Domitian
    -- 96 - 98 A.D. Marcus Cocceius Nerva
    -- 98 - 117 A.D Marcus Ulpius Trajanus (Trajan)
    etc.

    “[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, his is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”

    Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929, p. 1392

    Interestingly, the poster is willing to ~reincarnate~ Nero to achieve what History does not support, because apparently GOD simply got it wrong.

    Or GOD's Word is absolutely correct, and an ancient historical fulfillment was NEVER INTENDED.

    BibleScribe


    PS
    Isn't it funny how easy it is to simply ignore two inconvenient rulers, Galba and Otho. LOL​
     
  7. Cooter

    Cooter New Member

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    That is easy to answer. Galba and Otho were very short term and insignificat Emperors. They did not fit the message of John who used the OT and historical symbols to express his message.

    John does the same identical thing when he lists the 12 tribes of Israel. It is historically inaccurate. There are two tribes that aren't tribes and two of the historical tribes that were deleated.

    So if you insist on historical accuracy then explain to me the botched up list of the 12 tribes.

     
  8. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    I believe the question at hand is the seven, and the eighth -- who "was and is not".

    And where so many attempt some ancient fulfillment as though John were written the the "present tense", (i.e, "one is"), the fact is John was writing in the "future present tense". What he's seeing is that moment when Russia attacks Israel, and the whole world will recognize that prophetic event.

    But of course, there will be a Jew who will promise "peace", and the world will follow after him. But he is a counterfeit.


    Thus one might consider the sequence which both Scripture and History fully support:


    1. Gold, Babylonian, (1 of 5 has fallen)
    2. Silver, Medo/Persian, ,(2 of 5 has fallen)
    3. Bronze, Grecian (3 of 5 has fallen)
    4. Iron, Roman, (4 of 5 has fallen)
    -- Clay,"divided"
    -- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S., (5 of 5 has fallen from pre-eminence, but is still part of the concurrent "divided" empire of Clay)
    -- 6. Bear, Russia, (one is)
    -- 7. Leopard, China, (is yet to come, and shall remain a little while)
    -- 8. "dreadful", United Nations, ("was and is not", because it has NO populous, NO geography, NO army, etc.)



    BibleScribe
     
  9. Cooter

    Cooter New Member

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    More Futurist nonsense. The book of Revelation was written directly to the Christians of the first Century. It is not a modern playground for eccentric imaginations in our day.

    You haven't explained the messed up list of the 12 tribes yet.

    You have not fully explained he 7th and the 8th. Don't skip over it - explain it.
     
  10. Foreigner

    Foreigner New Member

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    -- Another case of the mind being made up and the person not wanting to be bothered with facts.
     
  11. revturmoil

    revturmoil New Member

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    You have fallen for one big lie. It's really impressive that you allow yourself to be so misled by your idiot mentors. That makes you and idiots' idiot!

    I can only hope and pray that all preterist get banned from the forum.

    Why don't you PM Envolve and tell him he's an idiot too for encouraging you to come here.
    I refuse to be involved with Satans' doctrine of preterism. I'll be back after you and the others are gone.

    bye
     
  12. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    What do you want to know? Are you interested in the Daniel 2 foundation? Or how about the Daniel 7 supplement? Or even better, how about the Daniel 11 specifics?

    And from Daniel we can evaluate exactly who the Revelation 13 mouth, body, and feet are. But of course these are merely the concurrent three superpowers. And not to leave anything out, we also know that the eighth as identified, has also provided the ten as of August 1993.

    So tell me where you want to start (... it's always better to start at the beginning, -- Daniel 2 --.).


    BibleScribe
     
  13. Cooter

    Cooter New Member

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    First of all tell me what is not factual about my post #104. It is entirely based on historical facts and not Futurist speculations. All the responses I seem to get is - my translation is of Satan, Preterism is of Satan - I am not a Preterist. You just assume so because I have read history and have found out what Prophesies remain (very few) and what has been fulfilled. Add all the insults, derogatory names, and you have the standard Futurist response to any hard question.

    I'm still waiting for a Futurist to name just one of their speculations that have come to pass in the last sixty years. I have never gotten a valid single answer in the last 1 1/2 years because there are none - absolutely none. You would think that after 60 years somebody would take notice of this and start to suspect that something is wrong with their Eschatology. I am also waiting for a Futurist to briefly explain the four comings of Christ that the teach all of the time - but never put them all together. I can see why because there is no Biblical support for more than two, but it takes four to make Futurism work.

    Mind made up? I've probably thrown out more doctrines over the years than I now hold . Including Premillennial Dispensationalism (Futurism) which I grew up in - in the AOG from 1953 to the late 1970's. The more I study the Bible the more I see that it is simple - not complicated like is being taught today.
     
  14. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    Hey Cooter,

    If I give you a citation, you'll refute it. (Yeah, of course I predicted ~WWI, WWII, the Korean Conflict, etc.,etc., etc.~). Alternately, if I give you a future event, you won't be convinced because IT HASN'T COME TO PASS. :rolleyes:

    But as you suggest, prophecy is a simple subject, easily validated by the historical record (as appropriate), and even validated by foundations which are laid today for fulfillment tomorrow. -- Take for example the ten horns. This information was pronounced in August of 1993, but will not take place until ~2015.

    In fact I have no problem assigning future events to the "season" based solely upon Scripture, -- with no other direct evidence. But then again, prophecy is simple.


    BibleScribe
     
  15. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    I'll do one better. Here's a Scripture that's still yet future that has only been able to be fulfilled in our times...


    Rev 11:8-9
    8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    (KJV)

    Just HOW shall the people and kindreds and tongues and nations SEE the dead bodies of God's two witnesses in Jerusalem laying in the street?

    It's called satellite technology. Small cell phones with internet can view satellite images from any place in the world. That technology has only become available in the past decade.
     
  16. Craig Farrow

    Craig Farrow New Member

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  17. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    Wow, -- foregoing such a simple prophecy in Psalms 48, this guy really shows how difficult GOD makes things. Is GOD really this complex? Is HE really trying to hide stuff from us? Do we really need a personal PhD mathematician to understand Scripture?

    Or is this guy simply making stuff up?



    I think GOD has already provide the simple solution in the 19th book of the Bible (prophetic for the 1900s) and the 48th Chapter (prophetic for the year) such that we can see that prophecy for the nation of Israel (19 - 48 = 1948).

    But then again, maybe GOD provides simple answers for simple people. :)


    BibleScribe
     
  18. Cooter

    Cooter New Member

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    As usual you completely misunderstood. I am looking for just one Futurist speculation that has come to pass in the last 60 years. I'm not looking for another speculation to add to all the hundreds hanging out there in the near future.

    I'm sure that the people of the first century were familiar with satellite technology.
     
  19. Israelsson

    Israelsson Israelsson

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    I agree with the UN theory on some terms, but they aren't really the ones controlling us today. Its the banks of the world, Goldman Sachs, for instance. The Bilderbergers, Rothschilds. and the Rockefellers all have a significant hand in the world banking industry. They have had ample time to plan, organize, and implement this modern form of slavery. People go to great lengths to provide for their families, when God has given us everything that we need. But, "the love of money is the root of all evil", and many people love their money.

    Often, a persons social status is determined by the amount of income they are able to maintain. In a disgusting display of idolatry, Christians the world over, worship their god which provides everything today. Many are given over to a reprobate mind simply because they knowingly go against Gods law. Its much like the parable of the Sower and the Seeds, in which the truth falls on the hearts of many, but because the world makes them feel to good, they fall back to mammon. What will it be, God or Mammon?

    The UN, in my opinion, is working in conjunction with these global banking elite, to push forth the agenda of universalism and humanism. To destroy what purity there is left in the once Christian nations of the world. This earth age is approaching its end, we may see it tomorrow, it could be 100 years. But the fact remains, that the church has fallen away, people are athiest more now than ever, and those the world is becoming a race of mixed breeds.

    God will root up that which wasn't planted, and things WILL be different. And it may not be what anyone expects.
     
  20. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    Topic: "Jews"
    http://www.christian...ws/page__st__90



    To All,

    There are two race haters in this Forum. One is "TheWarls1", and the second is "Israelsson". These both claim Christianity, but they defy the very GOD they pretend to serve. And more importantly, they would lead YOU into the destruction reserved for them, -- if possible.

    And where a well founded Christian is not persuaded, anyone less founded may be deceived by their smooth words. And so I provide this warning as to their true "father", satan, and his guiles.



    BibleScribe
     
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