The beast that was and was not and yet is

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veteran

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Hi Veteran, Yes, Orthodox Jews are still similar to the old (Phariseeic?) type. The messianics still cling to their Jewish roots and still observe Torah law and consequently do not call themselves Christians but that is really the only difference between themselves and Christians. I don`t claim my scriptual knowledge is better than yours and only quoted Romans to indicate that the cultivated Olive (Jews) had some of there branches rejected, and the branches of the wild Olive (Gentiles) are going to be grafted into the same tree!


I realize the want to retain the idea of 'Jewishness' (whatever that really means), and I have no problem with those who want to try and follow God's laws which Christ did not nail to His cross. I have two pretty close friends that are SDA, but some of the doctrines they're taught I simply cannot deal with it at all. And one of them is their Biblical views about Rome. I'm a Protestant, descended from French Huguenots, which were the first French Protestants that fought against the Catholic Church in France, and were expelled. So my ancestors should have planted the idea that the pope was the antichrist, yet my family never held to any such ideas.

How many threads are certain ones here going to keep pushing that "many antichrists" only idea from men's traditions?

John gave the idea of 'the antichrist' and then the idea of the 'many antichrists'. One is singular, the other plural, duh.

I really fail to see the advantage of teaching the falsehood that the word antichrist can only apply to many, but never just one. Teaching such a thing really doesn't show intelligence on the matter.
 

popeye

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Anyone who has studied prophecy for any length of time knows, inherently, that the descriptions of the "man of sin" antiChrist, represents one individual, and one individual only. He is described as ONE HORN - a little horn - and he is described as a man - a human being - who is "more stout than his fellows". Certainly Satan amasses an army of followers...that is....antichrists.... in these End Times. But, there is no mistaking that one follower in particular, is given power by Satan to "fool the world". This is eschatology 101, for goodness sakes. And for ease of discussion, and clarity in debate, communicators of ET issues have, for years, assigned a word to that particular individual, that is, "THE AntiChrist"...as opposed to "A AntiChrist".

Arguing technicalities of the use of certain words in eschatology is a huge waste of time. Many argue the term "rapture" too, which word is never recorded anywhere in The Bible. But everyone who studies prophecy knows EXACTLY what that word, or that term means.

Rather than arguing these terminologies, time should be spent - and focused - on matters of belief that directly affect the way we perceive what is coming.
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
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Anyone who has studied prophecy for any length of time knows, inherently, that the descriptions of the "man of sin" antiChrist, represents one individual, and one individual only. He is described as ONE HORN - a little horn - and he is described as a man - a human being - who is "more stout than his fellows". Certainly Satan amasses an army of followers...that is....antichrists.... in these End Times. But, there is no mistaking that one follower in particular, is given power by Satan to "fool the world". This is eschatology 101, for goodness sakes. And for ease of discussion, and clarity in debate, communicators of ET issues have, for years, assigned a word to that particular individual, that is, "THE AntiChrist"...as opposed to "A AntiChrist".

Arguing technicalities of the use of certain words in eschatology is a huge waste of time. Many argue the term "rapture" too, which word is never recorded anywhere in The Bible. But everyone who studies prophecy knows EXACTLY what that word, or that term means.

Rather than arguing these terminologies, time should be spent - and focused - on matters of belief that directly affect the way we perceive what is coming.
Ask God for His spirit and watch your understanding change when you receive.
 

Comm.Arnold

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I think the obvious significance is found in Daniel 2:

1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4. Iron, Roman
5. Clay, "divided"

... and as amplified by Daniel 7:

1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4. Iron, Roman
-- Clay, "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard, China
-- 8. "dreadful", United Nations

Thus one should find that the eighth "was and is not" for it has NO geography, NO populous, NO army, etc.


And having performed the above, then one should anticipate the significance of Daniel 7:11-12:

[sup]11[/sup] “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. [sup]12[/sup] As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


... where the U.N. shall be destroyed, and the three superpowers shall continue until converted into the new Millennium model.



BibleScribe

So what do you think happens in US/Britain when Russia is the new kingdom ? Also do you consider Canada, Australia NZ etc part of the US/Uk kingdom ?
 

BibleScribe

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Anyone who has studied prophecy for any length of time knows, inherently, that the descriptions of the "man of sin" antiChrist, represents one individual, and one individual only. He is described as ONE HORN - a little horn - ..

Popeye,

There are eleven little horns:

Daniel 7
7 ... It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. [sup]8[/sup]I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, ...
[sup]19[/sup]"Then I desired to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the rest, exceedingly terrifying, with its teeth of iron and claws of bronze, and which devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet, [sup]20[/sup] and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions.


In this verse we should appreciate that the ten and the eleventh are all peers. Thus we have eleven little horns.

-- So you want to know about the Great Horn, and the Four Mid-Horns, so that you can appreciate how the sequence of world history arrives at these Eleven Little-Horns? --






So what do you think happens in US/Britain when Russia is the new kingdom ? Also do you consider Canada, Australia NZ etc part of the US/Uk kingdom ?


Hi Comm.Arnold,

Daniel 2:41 says this FIFTH empire shall be a "divided" kingdom. Thus all three co-exist. The only difference is as what levels of pre-eminence.

For the United Kingdom, their mid-1800s to mid-1900s pre-eminence is past. So too the United States mid-1900s to the early 2000s pre-eminence is past. Russia will have pre-eminence ONLY by military might, which will culminate in the attack on the Middle East. China's pre-eminence is building as we speak, and shall culminate when they 'spank' Russia.

As far as the other nations which you cite, -- these are addressed in Daniel 11:5 as the U.K. "princes" which include the United States. But as history supports, these other nations never took the center stage of international affairs. It was the U.S. who inherited the mantle previously worn by the U.K.

And finally, as previously proposed per Daniel 7:11-12, when the U.N. is judged, the three shall continue for a "season and a time", until they are converted into the Millennial Kingdom.



BibleScribe
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
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Rev 17;8

The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

John wrote the above verse in 100 AD.At that time the beast that had once existed appeared to have been put to death by the Romans.
But here in these last days the beast reappeared in 1948.Jews from all the world have followed it .
This beast which John wrote of is the nation state of Israel.

So for those of you who do not love the beast,Dont let yourself be mislead by those who do love and support the beast.
People will say just anything to divert negative attention away from thier beloved beast .It is what it is.
Jesus said long ago who it would be to kill the saints of God in the last days.

Mathew 23;34
[sup]34[/sup]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Do you believe Jesus or do you believe these people who adore the beast?

You know this is real close but the arena has changed to the Christians. The beast is now the Christian rebels and they will kill the end time witnesses.




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veteran

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Popeye,

There are eleven little horns:

Daniel 7
7 ... It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. [sup]8[/sup]I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, ...
[sup]19[/sup]"Then I desired to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the rest, exceedingly terrifying, with its teeth of iron and claws of bronze, and which devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet, [sup]20[/sup] and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions.


In this verse we should appreciate that the ten and the eleventh are all peers. Thus we have eleven little horns.

-- So you want to know about the Great Horn, and the Four Mid-Horns, so that you can appreciate how the sequence of world history arrives at these Eleven Little-Horns? --









Hi Comm.Arnold,

Daniel 2:41 says this FIFTH empire shall be a "divided" kingdom. Thus all three co-exist. The only difference is as what levels of pre-eminence.

For the United Kingdom, their mid-1800s to mid-1900s pre-eminence is past. So too the United States mid-1900s to the early 2000s pre-eminence is past. Russia will have pre-eminence ONLY by military might, which will culminate in the attack on the Middle East. China's pre-eminence is building as we speak, and shall culminate when they 'spank' Russia.

As far as the other nations which you cite, -- these are addressed in Daniel 11:5 as the U.K. "princes" which include the United States. But as history supports, these other nations never took the center stage of international affairs. It was the U.S. who inherited the mantle previously worn by the U.K.

And finally, as previously proposed per Daniel 7:11-12, when the U.N. is judged, the three shall continue for a "season and a time", until they are converted into the Millennial Kingdom.



BibleScribe


That's nothing but more false teaching influenced by Orthodox Judaism.

The U.S.A., U.K, nor any of the Western Christian nations are mentioned in Ezekiel 38 as coming up against Israel in the end. Instead, Ezekiel 38 is pointing to Russia and it's Islamic allies as the great army out of the 'northern quarters' that comes upon Israel on the last day (Armageddon). So not even ROME is even mentioned with that list of Ezek.38 nations that come upon Israel.

The world beast system the coming false messiah is going to setup will be in power over all... nations, but the army out of the northern quarters that comes upon Israel on the last day battle of Armageddon is a different Biblical prophecy.

Those who confuse the two prophetic events, and then try to point to western Christians as Israel's enemies are serving up a platter of propaganda from Communism and it's Islamic allies, which ARE... the peoples that are to make up the Ezek.38 army that comes out of the northern quarters upon Israel on the last day.
 

WISDOM CALLED

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Rev 17 and 18 are both about the USA. It is the only nation that fits the criteria of the prophecy. Criteria is essential when understanding prophecy.. Rev 13, also mentions three different people.

1. 3rd beast - Leopard mentioned by Prophet Daniel.
2. 4th beast - Supports 3rd beast.
3. Wisdom was called to do the count on the man 666 to stop the Leopard in his tracks so that the rest of the prophecy would not be fulfilled.

The NT also tells you that there would be one that would stand where it did not belong. In the Dead Sea Scrolls they are the usurper of the true one sent in the last days of the end times. The religious leader of the Nation of Islam that supported Obama also called him the Messiah.

The prophecy stated that he would speak like a Lion, and have feet like a bear. His large feet are to do with the footprint of communism.

Jesus Christ also predicted that wisdom would come and be proven right by her actions. The people were told that when the Queen of the South came to judgement this generation, she would have more wisdom than Solomon. Hence, why wisdom in Rev 13 refers to a person that was called. Exactly as the prophecy predicted that they would be.
 

veteran

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The only nations to do with the army out of the northern quarters that comes upon Israel are the nations listed in Ezekiel 38.

And NONE of the historical Christian nations are on that list.

As for the Revelation Babylon Harlot, that involves both endtime Jerusalem in a state of idol worship, and those who flock there to do that false worship of the coming fake Christ.
 

us2are1

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Sep 14, 2011
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The only nations to do with the army out of the northern quarters that comes upon Israel are the nations listed in Ezekiel 38.

And NONE of the historical Christian nations are on that list.

As for the Revelation Babylon Harlot, that involves both endtime Jerusalem in a state of idol worship, and those who flock there to do that false worship of the coming fake Christ.

If you would pay close attetion to those who were gathered out of many People you would realize that at the time they are being attacked they are without walls and have no houses or buildings. They are the camp of the Lord talked about in this prophecy. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/14712-christs-two-witnesses/page__pid__134638#entry134638




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WISDOM CALLED

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The only nations to do with the army out of the northern quarters that comes upon Israel are the nations listed in Ezekiel 38.

And NONE of the historical Christian nations are on that list.

As for the Revelation Babylon Harlot, that involves both endtime Jerusalem in a state of idol worship, and those who flock there to do that false worship of the coming fake Christ.

No, the USA is the largest distributor of new age products globally. Rev 2 also mentions Jezebel and she was Elizabeth Claire Prophet (USA) who started a Church Universal Triumphant. When looking at Rev 17 and 18 criteria one has to take Rev 2 on Jezebel into account as well. Isaiah 47 is also about the USA and it speaks of the catastrophe that is coming upon it.
 

veteran

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No, the USA is the largest distributor of new age products globally. Rev 2 also mentions Jezebel and she was Elizabeth Claire Prophet (USA) who started a Church Universal Triumphant. When looking at Rev 17 and 18 criteria one has to take Rev 2 on Jezebel into account as well. Isaiah 47 is also about the USA and it speaks of the catastrophe that is coming upon it.

The largest distributor of Occultism are the secret initiate fraternities and with their connection to pagan mystics among orthodox Judaism and the Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism).

And the greatest event of false idol worship the world will ever see, is getting ready to occur in today's Jerusalem on earth, when the deceived Jews proclaim the coming Antichrist as The Messiah.

The Jezebel of Revelation was about a historical Church in Asia, one out of seven. Those seven Messages serve as blueprints for the endtime Churches. So it ain't just about one Jezebel, but about any Church that goes the way of the original. Pointing to the U.S. with that is ludicrous, because that kind of thing has not happened only in the U.S. By your attempt to point to specifically point to the U.S. well reveals your political stance AGAINST The United States of America, and your stance against Christianity in general. Thanks for revealing that to us.
 

us2are1

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The Lord is against all nations and will destroy all of their armies, all of their supporters and everyone who serves them instead of Christ.

This is just a matter of fact.





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veteran

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The Lord is against all nations and will destroy all of their armies, all of their supporters and everyone who serves them instead of Christ.

This is just a matter of fact.

That's too much of a broad sweeping statement with no Bible Scripture backup.


Zech 14:13-16
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
(KJV)

Looks like you're wrong, for even those left of the nations that will come upon Jerusalem on the last day battle will still remain to go up to Jeursalem year to year to worship Christ Jesus The King, The LORD of hosts.
 

BibleScribe

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Jun 17, 2011
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Rev 17 and 18 are both about the USA. It is the only nation that fits the criteria of the prophecy. Criteria is essential when understanding prophecy.. Rev 13, also mentions three different people.

1. 3rd beast - Leopard mentioned by Prophet Daniel.
2. 4th beast - Supports 3rd beast.
3. Wisdom was called to do the count on the man 666 to stop the Leopard in his tracks so that the rest of the prophecy would not be fulfilled.

The NT also tells you that there would be one that would stand where it did not belong. In the Dead Sea Scrolls they are the usurper of the true one sent in the last days of the end times. The religious leader of the Nation of Islam that supported Obama also called him the Messiah.

The prophecy stated that he would speak like a Lion, and have feet like a bear. His large feet are to do with the footprint of communism.

Jesus Christ also predicted that wisdom would come and be proven right by her actions. The people were told that when the Queen of the South came to judgement this generation, she would have more wisdom than Solomon. Hence, why wisdom in Rev 13 refers to a person that was called. Exactly as the prophecy predicted that they would be.


To All,

I perceive that "WISDOM CALLED" offers neither wisdom, nor is called. However, many have already identified this individual for what he is, -- and correctly so.


BibleScribe
 

Craig Farrow

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Rev 17 and 18 are both about the USA. It is the only nation that fits the criteria of the prophecy. Criteria is essential when understanding prophecy.. Rev 13, also mentions three different people.

1. 3rd beast - Leopard mentioned by Prophet Daniel.
2. 4th beast - Supports 3rd beast.
3. Wisdom was called to do the count on the man 666 to stop the Leopard in his tracks so that the rest of the prophecy would not be fulfilled.

The NT also tells you that there would be one that would stand where it did not belong. In the Dead Sea Scrolls they are the usurper of the true one sent in the last days of the end times. The religious leader of the Nation of Islam that supported Obama also called him the Messiah.

The prophecy stated that he would speak like a Lion, and have feet like a bear. His large feet are to do with the footprint of communism.

Jesus Christ also predicted that wisdom would come and be proven right by her actions. The people were told that when the Queen of the South came to judgement this generation, she would have more wisdom than Solomon. Hence, why wisdom in Rev 13 refers to a person that was called. Exactly as the prophecy predicted that they would be.

WC, Daniels 4th beast is about Rome, therefore perhaps a "reformed" Roman Empire or "Union" is what is being alluded to! I`m afraid the USA is renown in biblical prophecy for its seeming abscence.
 

BibleScribe

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WC, Daniels 4th beast is about Rome, therefore perhaps a "reformed" Roman Empire or "Union" is what is being alluded to! I`m afraid the USA is renown in biblical prophecy for its seeming abscence.


Hi Craig Farrow,

Please consider that Daniel 2:45 specifies FIVE world empires, (i.e., 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE), for which the FIFTH is "divided" among the three superpowers as provided in Daniel 7. Thus all conform to the words being "shut up and sealed UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END", which I approximate to 1948.


Regarding the U.S. in prophecy, Scripture is replete with citations, if you know the first thing about prophecy. And I would be more than happy to provide as many pointer as you might like! :)


BibleScribe
 

veteran

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WC, Daniels 4th beast is about Rome, therefore perhaps a "reformed" Roman Empire or "Union" is what is being alluded to! I`m afraid the USA is renown in biblical prophecy for its seeming abscence.

No titles of U.S.A., United States, etc., are found in Bible prophecy. But neither is the country name Russia either, although there is a region name pointer to it in Ezekiel 38.

The "multitude of nations" prophecy about Ephraim in Genesis 48 is a pointer to the western Christian nations. Why?

Because God's Birthright was transferred to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh per 1 Chronicles 5, and it is nowhere written of moving to another again in God's Word.

Ephraim and Manasseh were to be reckoned as sons of Israel per Jacob's (Israel) blessing upon the lads, which involved God's Birthright from Abraham down to Jacob (Gen.48).

In Genesis 35 when God transferred His Birthright to Jacob, He told Jacob that "a nation and a company of nations" would come out of his loins. God gave Jacob the new name of Israel, which means that "nation and a company of nations" MUST have a connection with Jacob (Israel).

The "nation" was the kingdom of Israel God established through Jacob's 12 sons that became the twelve tribes of Israel. But the "company of nations"??? Notice the geographical "nation" of Israel in the holy land has NEVER... been "a company of nations". It has always been a one nation kingdom, until God split it in two separate houses with the one kingdom being 'rent' (torn).

Even today in the holy lands, the "nation" state named Israel is still... just one Israelite nation. Per God's Word, Jacob's seed, and Ephraim specifically, was to become multiple nations. Since God's Birthright has always... included The Gospel Salvation by Faith first given Abraham, that MUST be included in that "multitude of nations" prophecy about Ephraim. And there's only one area of the earth which was per history established as nations in The Gospel of Jesus Christ, i.e., the Christian west.