The beast that was and was not and yet is

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Cooter

New Member
Jun 14, 2011
57
2
0
82
N E Ohio
Hey Cooter,

If I give you a citation, you'll refute it. (Yeah, of course I predicted ~WWI, WWII, the Korean Conflict, etc.,etc., etc.~). Alternately, if I give you a future event, you won't be convinced because IT HASN'T COME TO PASS. :rolleyes:

But as you suggest, prophecy is a simple subject, easily validated by the historical record (as appropriate), and even validated by foundations which are laid today for fulfillment tomorrow. -- Take for example the ten horns. This information was pronounced in August of 1993, but will not take place until ~2015.

In fact I have no problem assigning future events to the "season" based solely upon Scripture, -- with no other direct evidence. But then again, prophecy is simple.


BibleScribe

Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000167 EndHTML:0000004362 StartFragment:0000000457 EndFragment:0000004346

You are not understanding what I am saying. Here are some examples of failed Futurist speculations.

Lindsey predicted that Nasser would become the leader of the Arab world - he died from a heart attack the same year LGPE was published.

My family came into the Church in the early 50's and at that time the Futurist AoG Church that we attended taught that Jesus would be coming back within 40 years of the founding of modern Israel. 1948 + 40 = 1988. 1988 came and went and nothing - another failed speculation. Next they said that they counted wrong and they should have started with the liberation of Jerusalem in 1967. 1967 + 40 = 2007. 2007 came and went - another failure in their endless fanciful speculations.

This same Church also taught back then that Russia would invade Israel any day now as per Ezekiel 38-39. I haven't seen this in my 60 years in the Church. Another failure. Back then they taught that the invaders on horseback were the Cossacks. They are still around, but their power started to decline in the 1800"s and they are not a significant force today. I think Futurists today are saying that those ancient weapons of war in 38 and 39 are symbolic of modern weapons. So they keep updating their speculations when they don't come to pass. Ezekiel 38-39 is an apocalyptic prophesy of the coming of Antiochus – a major event in Jewish history. It's already behind us.

The Antichrist. There have been hundreds of speculations about who the antichrist is over the past 60 years (my adult lifetime) - and the list changes continually. While doing this post I ran over a site that says that Prince Charles is the antichrist. Just this week I noted that in my wife's new edition of Charisma magazine there are two new books (full page ads) for the latest two speculations for the antichrist. And they will keep coming as Futurism is a very lucrative market for this kind of nonsense. I did take notice that one author stated that the antichrist would be allied to a 10 nation coalition. I was taught that this was the emerging revived Roman empire – then it morphed into the EU. Now the EU has 27 members with another 5 pending – so much for the 10 nation revived Roman Empire. They had to make up a new direction yet again. Add another failure to the long list. I realize that it is very difficult to predict fulfillments for Prophesy that are ALREADY fulfilled.

Dr. Charles Price decades ago wrote a book proving conclusively that Mussolini was the antichrist beyond a shadow of doubt. When hearing of the death of Mussolini - he simply said, “Thank God all of the books were sold.” And so it goes on ad infinitum. Just one failure after another - after another. I think Futurists are slowly learning that their Eschatology is not working. No problem – just keep it all floating out in the future in never- never-land. Don't make any firm commitments – because they are always wrong 100%.

This is what I mean – name one prediction that has come to pass in the last 60 years – they have all failed - every one that has been predicted publicly by the movement. As for personal individual predictions - the failure rate is also 100%. Personal predictions are in the 10's of thousands. I just ran across about three last week. I'm starting to collect them.

Of course all of these failures are long forgotten and never spoken of; but yet futurists publicize all of their new speculations and want people to accept them even with your zero credibility for past performance. And if they are contradicted they fly into an absolute rage as you can see from previous responses to my posts.

Mark my words - all of these Futurist writers and teachers with itching ears and fat wallets who have the adoration of millions are going to on day give an account for all of their false doctrines.

Give my best to Peter and Wendy.
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
Hey Cooter,

I'm not sure why you expect me to answer for another's failed promises. I only offer to defend what you challenged. -- It was an open ended challenge, wasn't it?


So where you cited the "revived Roman Empire" I would point out that Daniel 2:45 doesn't say 1,2,3,4a,4b, -- it says FIVE: 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. And where you correctly assail the 27 + 5 as NOT the 10, I would propose the TRUE 10.

In fact, I can provide a simple Scriptural / Historical explanation for every cited failure that others have made. So for me it's not question of a solution, but for you it is a question of effort. However, if you're happy in your failed world then please keep whatever illusions you may have, (i.e., your ill advised statement to "veteran": I'm sure that the people of the first century were familiar with satellite technology). For as the saying goes, -- Ignorance can be cured, ... (and I forgot how the rest goes, ^_^ ). But if you've the guts to stand behind your challenge, then I think I'm up for it. :)


BibleScribe
 

revturmoil

New Member
Feb 26, 2011
816
11
0
69
New Hampshire's North Woods
Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000167 EndHTML:0000004362 StartFragment:0000000457 EndFragment:0000004346

You are not understanding what I am saying. Here are some examples of failed Futurist speculations.

Lindsey predicted that Nasser would become the leader of the Arab world - he died from a heart attack the same year LGPE was published.

My family came into the Church in the early 50's and at that time the Futurist AoG Church that we attended taught that Jesus would be coming back within 40 years of the founding of modern Israel. 1948 + 40 = 1988. 1988 came and went and nothing - another failed speculation. Next they said that they counted wrong and they should have started with the liberation of Jerusalem in 1967. 1967 + 40 = 2007. 2007 came and went - another failure in their endless fanciful speculations.

This same Church also taught back then that Russia would invade Israel any day now as per Ezekiel 38-39. I haven't seen this in my 60 years in the Church. Another failure. Back then they taught that the invaders on horseback were the Cossacks. They are still around, but their power started to decline in the 1800"s and they are not a significant force today. I think Futurists today are saying that those ancient weapons of war in 38 and 39 are symbolic of modern weapons. So they keep updating their speculations when they don't come to pass. Ezekiel 38-39 is an apocalyptic prophesy of the coming of Antiochus – a major event in Jewish history. It's already behind us.

The Antichrist. There have been hundreds of speculations about who the antichrist is over the past 60 years (my adult lifetime) - and the list changes continually. While doing this post I ran over a site that says that Prince Charles is the antichrist. Just this week I noted that in my wife's new edition of Charisma magazine there are two new books (full page ads) for the latest two speculations for the antichrist. And they will keep coming as Futurism is a very lucrative market for this kind of nonsense. I did take notice that one author stated that the antichrist would be allied to a 10 nation coalition. I was taught that this was the emerging revived Roman empire – then it morphed into the EU. Now the EU has 27 members with another 5 pending – so much for the 10 nation revived Roman Empire. They had to make up a new direction yet again. Add another failure to the long list. I realize that it is very difficult to predict fulfillments for Prophesy that are ALREADY fulfilled.

Dr. Charles Price decades ago wrote a book proving conclusively that Mussolini was the antichrist beyond a shadow of doubt. When hearing of the death of Mussolini - he simply said, “Thank God all of the books were sold.” And so it goes on ad infinitum. Just one failure after another - after another. I think Futurists are slowly learning that their Eschatology is not working. No problem – just keep it all floating out in the future in never- never-land. Don't make any firm commitments – because they are always wrong 100%.

This is what I mean – name one prediction that has come to pass in the last 60 years – they have all failed - every one that has been predicted publicly by the movement. As for personal individual predictions - the failure rate is also 100%. Personal predictions are in the 10's of thousands. I just ran across about three last week. I'm starting to collect them.

Of course all of these failures are long forgotten and never spoken of; but yet futurists publicize all of their new speculations and want people to accept them even with your zero credibility for past performance. And if they are contradicted they fly into an absolute rage as you can see from previous responses to my posts.

Mark my words - all of these Futurist writers and teachers with itching ears and fat wallets who have the adoration of millions are going to on day give an account for all of their false doctrines.

Give my best to Peter and Wendy.

Now I can see why you are grossly misled! You believed the words of men before the Wod of God!

Have you PM'd your buddy Envolve. He's the one who sent you here. I can only pray you will end up into the recycle bin!

Preterism denies and rejects God's Prophetic Word.

And I hope the administrator of the forum cans you, and the others who deny God's Word and those who hate Israel.

I refuse to share in a prophecy forum with preterist or with those who hate Israel. If you and the others are not gone soon...I am!
 

lawrance

New Member
Mar 30, 2011
738
19
0
Where is Israel ?
We have a State called Israel ? and that's all even the Orthodox don't call it Israel ?
Why should some have to put up with silly pushy belligerent people demanding that the state is 'Israel' from dreamers.
I say i believe it will happen one day but noting really points to the undisputed fact, that day has come according to God.
True Israel !!!!!!!! if you understand the true meaning of the word ? will come not defying Jesus Christ Laws. and to me any fool that thinks other wise is just rejecting Jesus Christ straight out and is not a true Christian at all.

I know people who push that the Jews are our salvation ? i say rubbish to that and say only Jesus Christ is. as the Jews have no hope at all just look at history to see that as the problem is they don't even look up to Moses did they and if they did they would of came to Christ.

What a worldly madness of want to bees runing to their own ends. it' a sick joke.
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
895
26
0
Rev 17;8

The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

John wrote the above verse in 100 AD.At that time the beast that had once existed appeared to have been put to death by the Romans.
But here in these last days the beast reappeared in 1948.Jews from all the world have followed it .
This beast which John wrote of is the nation state of Israel.

So for those of you who do not love the beast,Dont let yourself be mislead by those who do love and support the beast.
People will say just anything to divert negative attention away from thier beloved beast .It is what it is.
Jesus said long ago who it would be to kill the saints of God in the last days.

Mathew 23;34
[sup]34[/sup]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Do you believe Jesus or do you believe these people who adore the beast?

Even though the nation state of Israel is predominately a nation of antichrists they are not the beast with seven heads and ten horns. The entirety of all world governments make up the end time beast. But no matter the Lord's two witnesses will cripple and kill that beast and the man eaters will come up out of it. The final offspring of the nations hunting and eating people for food in Jesus name. That is the final beast that will be removed by heavens fire at Christ's coming.

I tell you all about it here
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
...
I say i believe it will happen one day but noting really points to the undisputed fact, that day has come according to God.
True Israel !!!!!!!! ...


I would most strongly suggest that Scripture DOES provide clear and concise evidence of the calling of the Jews to their homeland (prior to the Holocaust, as a way of escape for those who could hear HIS voice); an individual who took the reigns of leadership; international recognition of that State; another leader who was assassinated; a Peace Accord; and the pending coming of a destroyer.

Just because you may not know the melting temperature of gold, doesn't mean it won't melt.


BibleScribe
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
895
26
0
I would most strongly suggest that Scripture DOES provide clear and concise evidence of the calling of the Jews to their homeland (prior to the Holocaust, as a way of escape for those who could hear HIS voice); an individual who took the reigns of leadership; international recognition of that State; another leader who was assassinated; a Peace Accord; and the pending coming of a destroyer.

Just because you may not know the melting temperature of gold, doesn't mean it won't melt.


BibleScribe
A nation of those who reject Christ will never hear a thing from God because they no longer have God.

1 John 2
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

They did it all on their own imaginations.

I tell you all about it here.









.
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
You missed the point. -- Some 240,00 Jews immigrated to Israel between the late 1800s and 1929, of which 186,000 stayed to live. However, approximately 6M should have heeded that call:

Psalm 24

Of David. A psalm.
[sup]1[/sup] The earth is the LORD’s, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it;
[sup]2[/sup] for he founded it on the seas
and established it on the waters.

[sup]3[/sup] Who may ascend the mountain of the LORD?
Who may stand in his holy place?
[sup]4[/sup] The one who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not trust in an idol
or swear by a false god.

[sup]5[/sup] They will receive blessing from the LORD
and vindication from God their Savior.
[sup]6[/sup] Such is the generation of those who seek him,
who seek your face, God of Jacob.

...



BibleScribe
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
895
26
0
I guess that means you don't want any evidence that the nation of Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy. -- Yeah, there's a lot of people who can't receive TRUTH.



BibleScribe
I just gave you Christ's truth. But you are supposing that I don't know about the Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah scriptures Which will be fulfilled with the ending of this prophecy.
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
I just gave you Christ's truth. ...

No, you gave me YOUR "truth", -- which is not TRUTH. But there's a lot of that going on around here. Afterall we have white supremacists who claim to be "christian", so why not have people who deny GOD's gathering of the Jews into a nation, and HIS preservation of that nation?


BibleScribe
 

Israelsson

Israelsson
Sep 18, 2011
135
0
0
41
Down here in Satan's kingdom (Earth)
i thought the israelites were to number more than the sands of the sea? i think the world jew population is something like 19 million. Thats not enough to fulfill prophecy. What other prophecies can you provide, I am interested, even though you think me some evil man.

A nation is not a geographical area, it is a race, a people, a bloodline.


You missed the point. -- Some 240,00 Jews immigrated to Israel between the late 1800s and 1929, of which 186,000 stayed to live. However, approximately 6M should have heeded that call:

Psalm 24

Of David. A psalm.
[sup]1[/sup] The earth is the LORD’s, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it;
[sup]2[/sup] for he founded it on the seas
and established it on the waters.
[sup]3[/sup] Who may ascend the mountain of the LORD?
Who may stand in his holy place?
[sup]4[/sup] The one who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not trust in an idol
or swear by a false god.
[sup]5[/sup] They will receive blessing from the LORD
and vindication from God their Savior.
[sup]6[/sup] Such is the generation of those who seek him,
who seek your face, God of Jacob.
...



BibleScribe

You missed the point. -- Some 240,00 Jews immigrated to Israel between the late 1800s and 1929, of which 186,000 stayed to live. However, approximately 6M should have heeded that call:

Psalm 24

Of David. A psalm.
[sup]1[/sup] The earth is the LORD’s, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it;
[sup]2[/sup] for he founded it on the seas
and established it on the waters.
[sup]3[/sup] Who may ascend the mountain of the LORD?
Who may stand in his holy place?
[sup]4[/sup] The one who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not trust in an idol
or swear by a false god.
[sup]5[/sup] They will receive blessing from the LORD
and vindication from God their Savior.
[sup]6[/sup] Such is the generation of those who seek him,
who seek your face, God of Jacob.
...



BibleScribe
its also interesting how noone has ever found 6 million human bodies... that would take up a lot of space. A lot of research from people outside the influence of these Jews, has brought forth no evidence of any type of 'holocaust'. Im certain Jews were killed, and rightly so, they had been done that way time and time before in Europe because people were aware of how the jews are. They sneak in, set up commitees to usurp power and gain control over the monetary system and charge interest rates. Right now in America, you owe interest on the money that is in your wallet, even though it has no real value at all!

Wake up and smell reality, if you want to partake of this world, then so be it. It wasn't until 20 years ago that people really got on the bandwagon of racial equality. But you know what, its still yet to be seen!


Where is Israel ?
We have a State called Israel ? and that's all even the Orthodox don't call it Israel ?
Why should some have to put up with silly pushy belligerent people demanding that the state is 'Israel' from dreamers.
I say i believe it will happen one day but noting really points to the undisputed fact, that day has come according to God.
True Israel !!!!!!!! if you understand the true meaning of the word ? will come not defying Jesus Christ Laws. and to me any fool that thinks other wise is just rejecting Jesus Christ straight out and is not a true Christian at all.

I know people who push that the Jews are our salvation ? i say rubbish to that and say only Jesus Christ is. as the Jews have no hope at all just look at history to see that as the problem is they don't even look up to Moses did they and if they did they would of came to Christ.

What a worldly madness of want to bees runing to their own ends. it' a sick joke.

Where is Israel ?
We have a State called Israel ? and that's all even the Orthodox don't call it Israel ?
Why should some have to put up with silly pushy belligerent people demanding that the state is 'Israel' from dreamers.
I say i believe it will happen one day but noting really points to the undisputed fact, that day has come according to God.
True Israel !!!!!!!! if you understand the true meaning of the word ? will come not defying Jesus Christ Laws. and to me any fool that thinks other wise is just rejecting Jesus Christ straight out and is not a true Christian at all.

I know people who push that the Jews are our salvation ? i say rubbish to that and say only Jesus Christ is. as the Jews have no hope at all just look at history to see that as the problem is they don't even look up to Moses did they and if they did they would of came to Christ.

What a worldly madness of want to bees runing to their own ends. it' a sick joke.
I do agree whole heartedly, except, Israel has been regathered in America. All peoples of the 12 tribes have established families here.
Now I can see why you are grossly misled! You believed the words of men before the Wod of God!

Have you PM'd your buddy Envolve. He's the one who sent you here. I can only pray you will end up into the recycle bin!

Preterism denies and rejects God's Prophetic Word.

And I hope the administrator of the forum cans you, and the others who deny God's Word and those who hate Israel.

I refuse to share in a prophecy forum with preterist or with those who hate Israel. If you and the others are not gone soon...I am!
No, you gave me YOUR "truth", -- which is not TRUTH. But there's a lot of that going on around here. Afterall we have white supremacists who claim to be "christian", so why not have people who deny GOD's gathering of the Jews into a nation, and HIS preservation of that nation?


BibleScribe
that would be me hes talking about. but its okay, I am a Christian, and I fear Yahweh. Do you?
good riddance
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
895
26
0
No, you gave me YOUR "truth", -- which is not TRUTH. But there's a lot of that going on around here. Afterall we have white supremacists who claim to be "christian", so why not have people who deny GOD's gathering of the Jews into a nation, and HIS preservation of that nation?


BibleScribe
Not! Here it is again. Any one who rejects Christ does not have God either. Saint Johns truth then. Tell me how you are going to get God to do it your way?

1 John 2
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
Not! Here it is again. Any one who rejects Christ does not have God either. Saint Johns truth then. Tell me how you are going to get God to do it your way?
...


I have no clue as to your assertion that anyone rejects Jesus, except that YOU reject Israel. And where GOD has called that nation into existence, both Scripturally and Historically, you apparently deny both.

But the offer still stands, whether to "Cooter" or to you:


I can provide a simple Scriptural / Historical explanation for every cited failure that others have made. So for me it's not question of a solution, but for you it is a question of effort. However, if you're happy in your failed world then please keep whatever illusions you may have, (i.e., your ill advised statement to "veteran": I'm sure that the people of the first century were familiar with satellite technology). For as the saying goes, -- Ignorance can be cured, ... (and I forgot how the rest goes, ^_^ ). But if you've the guts to stand behind your challenge, then I think I'm up for it. :)



BibleScribe
 

Craig Farrow

New Member
Oct 3, 2011
24
0
1
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Wow, -- foregoing such a simple prophecy in Psalms 48, this guy really shows how difficult GOD makes things. Is GOD really this complex? Is HE really trying to hide stuff from us? Do we really need a personal PhD mathematician to understand Scripture?

Or is this guy simply making stuff up?



I think GOD has already provide the simple solution in the 19th book of the Bible (prophetic for the 1900s) and the 48th Chapter (prophetic for the year) such that we can see that prophecy for the nation of Israel (19 - 48 = 1948).

But then again, maybe GOD provides simple answers for simple people. :)


BibleScribe
Its actually quite similar to Daniel 9:24 when you think about it! That is also where you can find a precedent for a punishment multiplied by 7.
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
Its actually quite similar to Daniel 9:24 when you think about it! That is also where you can find a precedent for a punishment multiplied by 7.




Hi Craig Farrow,

I hate to break the news, but as cited by John Walvoord, -- Young, Keit, & Kliefoth all agree that the text is not in the concise Feminine, but rather the inconcise Masculine, -- which is ONLY used in this 9th Chapter of Daniel.

As such you should consider that a "cool" morning, is not the same as a "cool" car. The first suggests a coat, the second does not. :)



Maybe you could find the "books" which validate the TRUE fulfillment, -- and it ain't the book of Jeremiah.

BibleScribe
 

Craig Farrow

New Member
Oct 3, 2011
24
0
1
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Hi Craig Farrow,

I hate to break the news, but as cited by John Walvoord, -- Young, Keit, & Kliefoth all agree that the text is not in the concise Feminine, but rather the inconcise Masculine, -- which is ONLY used in this 9th Chapter of Daniel.

As such you should consider that a "cool" morning, is not the same as a "cool" car. The first suggests a coat, the second does not. :)



Maybe you could find the "books" which validate the TRUE fulfillment, -- and it ain't the book of Jeremiah.

BibleScribe
I never said it was! Read daniel 9:1 to 20. This tells us that he knew the exile must be nearly up BUT he also was aware of Lev 26 (the punishment multiplier) and was clearly entreating the Lord for mercy in not applying it. (Why else would he be so upset) The angel then gives us the timeline of 70 weeks of years (490) 70 years of exile x 7 is also 490 years! God had indeed multiplied their punishment by 7, But hat mitigated it to having a real hard time in their own land.
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
... The angel then gives us the timeline of 70 weeks of years (490) 70 years of exile x 7 is also 490 years! ...


Hi Craig Farrow,

The word shibiym/shabuwa (~weeks~ plural / ~week~ singular) is in the inconcise Masculine gender text. Thus where the concise is the 490 as you suggest, the inconcise in NOT 490. It's a different value.

“...as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]


[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​
[2] IBID, p. 218


BibleScribe​
 

Craig Farrow

New Member
Oct 3, 2011
24
0
1
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Hi Craig Farrow,

The word shibiym/shabuwa (~weeks~ plural / ~week~ singular) is in the inconcise Masculine gender text. Thus where the concise is the 490 as you suggest, the inconcise in NOT 490. It's a different value.

“...as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]


[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​
[2] IBID, p. 218


BibleScribe


Hello again, http://www.seedofabraham.net/nltr33.html Perhaps an ancient Jewish perspective may help (Well they wrote it!) http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/552/ This more modern English interpretation may be more agreable.​
 

BibleScribe

Member
Jun 17, 2011
983
5
18
S.W. USA
Hello again, http://www.seedofabr...net/nltr33.html Perhaps an ancient Jewish perspective may help (Well they wrote it!) http://www.khouse.or...icles/2004/552/ This more modern English interpretation may be more agreable.[/indent]


Ummmmmm, if you wanted the TRUE (and CORRECT) Jewish text, you'd go to the original Hebrew, exactly as Young, Kiel, & Kliefoth have done.

Secondly, you could go to the JPS:


25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto one anointed, a prince, shall be seven weeks; and for threescore and two weeks, it shall be built again, with broad place and moat, but in troublous times.
26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall an anointed one be cut off, and be no more; and the people of a prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; but his end shall be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Please note that the seven is one duration, and the sixty-two is a second duration. Also please be aware that there is an "anointed one" (small "a") after the seven, and a second "anointed one" (small "a") after the sixty-two. So now you have to either consider whether Jesus made TWO appearances, or whether he had an older brother.


As such, I'd propose that the further you investigate your "doctrine", the worse it looks, -- exactly as the experts have found:


"...Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”, P.218

"... the great Catholic chronographers ... as well as those of all subsequent chronographers (including the great Scalinger and Sir Isaac Newton) have failed.. And Edward Young too, finds no satisfactory conclusion for the seventy sevens ... and leaves it without a satisfactory explanation.", P. 217

Per Montgomery: The history of the exegesis of the 70 Weeks is the Dismal Swamp of O. T. criticism. The difficulties that beset any "rationalistic" treatment of the figures are great enough, but the critics on this side of the fence do not agree among themselves; but the trackless wilderness of assumptions and theories and efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology. ... " p. 217

Walvoord, John,“Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971


BibleScribe
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
895
26
0
I have no clue as to your assertion that anyone rejects Jesus, except that YOU reject Israel. And where GOD has called that nation into existence, both Scripturally and Historically, you apparently deny both.

But the offer still stands, whether to "Cooter" or to you:


I can provide a simple Scriptural / Historical explanation for every cited failure that others have made. So for me it's not question of a solution, but for you it is a question of effort. However, if you're happy in your failed world then please keep whatever illusions you may have, (i.e., your ill advised statement to "veteran": I'm sure that the people of the first century were familiar with satellite technology). For as the saying goes, -- Ignorance can be cured, ... (and I forgot how the rest goes, ^_^ ). But if you've the guts to stand behind your challenge, then I think I'm up for it. :)



BibleScribe
How are you going to provide scriptural explanation when you can't read and understand the simplest scripture? The arena has shifted from rebellious Jews to rebellious Christians. Those who reject Christ to date have nothing good to look forward to unless they repent and believe the gospel.