The beliefs of the early Chiliasts were the antithesis of modern Premil

[Spiritual Israelite]

Now, the sacrifices depicted to be reinstated in the future BY GOD, are a continuing memorial of the death of Jesus.

Where is this taught in scripture?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Questions:
Can God reinstate the Jews in Jerusalem and saved every one of the from the least to the greatest and cause witnessing too each other to know the Lord to cease?

Can God reinstate the memorial sacrifices again?

If you say "no", you don't believe the Bible.

What memorial sacrifices are you talking about that you think will be reinstated in the future?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, Abel's offering was a memorial.

It is like being baptized in the name of Jesus as a memorial to Jesus death.

They duped you into thinking that the lamb was NOT slain from the foundation of the world, and that God cannot transcend time.

LOL. Jesus was not slain from the foundation of the world. He was slain about 2,000 years ago. Is your belief that He was slain from the foundation of the world based on this verse:

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is not a good translation of that verse because it makes people think Jesus was somehow slain from the foundation of the world even though He was slain around 2,000 years ago instead.

Here is a better translation of that verse:

Revelation 13:8 (NASB) All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

In this translation you can see that it's not saing the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, but rather is saying that "the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered" has been written since the foundation of the world.

To try to say that Abel's offering was a memorial of Christ's death is laughable at best. And to say that about any of the Old Testament sacrifices were done as memorials for Christ's sacrifice is laughable as well. Those were performed as a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice, not as a memorial of His sacrifice.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Pray to receive the Holy Spirit and He will guide you into all truth, I can't help you.

This post is way over the line. You are implying that you think WPM is not saved and has not received the Holy Spirit. Who are you to judge someone else like this? Do not judge or you will be judged with the same measure that you are judging others.

Bye and God Bless.

You say "God Bless" to someone right after insulting them by implying that they have not yet received the Holy Spirit?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why are you Premils so arrogant, evasive and insulting? Because the Scriptures forbid your error. I guess, I would be frustrated if i was still a Premil. But no, I saw the light and was liberated into the truth. Now I no long have to fight the Book. I can embrace it.

He said you should pray to receive the Holy Spirit, which implies that he thinks you have not yet received the Holy Spirit which would mean you are not saved. That is way over the line and is unacceptable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Please explain verse by verse what Ezekiel 45 is saying in your interpretation since it is not at all what it actually means on paper.

Please start and comment below each verse so we can understand it's real meaning....


45 Moreover, when ye shall divide by lot the land for inheritance, ye shall offer an oblation unto the Lord, an holy portion of the land: the length shall be the length of five and twenty thousand reeds, and the breadth shall be ten thousand. This shall be holy in all the borders thereof round about.

2 Of this there shall be for the sanctuary five hundred in length, with five hundred in breadth, square round about; and fifty cubits round about for the suburbs thereof.

3 And of this measure shalt thou measure the length of five and twenty thousand, and the breadth of ten thousand: and in it shall be the sanctuary and the most holy place.

4 The holy portion of the land shall be for the priests the ministers of the sanctuary, which shall come near to minister unto the Lord: and it shall be a place for their houses, and an holy place for the sanctuary.

5 And the five and twenty thousand of length, and the ten thousand of breadth shall also the Levites, the ministers of the house, have for themselves, for a possession for twenty chambers.

6 And ye shall appoint the possession of the city five thousand broad, and five and twenty thousand long, over against the oblation of the holy portion: it shall be for the whole house of Israel.

Thanks.

So, you believe that future animal sacrifices and offerings will be performed for the atonement of sins, as the following indicates:

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

Why would you believe that this will happen in the future when Jesus Christ already made His "once for all" sacrifice (Heb 10:10) for the atonement of the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2)? Can't you see what an insult it would be to Christ for animal sacrifices to be made in the future for the atonement of sins?

The prophecy in Ezekiel 40-48 was conditional and the conditions were not met.

Ezekiel 43:10 “Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider its perfection, 11 and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement, its exits and entrances—its whole design and all its regulations and laws. Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to its design and follow all its regulations.

This was in reference to the Israelite people of that time period long ago. They had to be "ashamed of all they have done" in order for the temple to be built for them. But, they were not. They did not repent. So, it was not built. To think it's talking about a future temple where animal sacrifices would be done "to make atonement for the Israelites" contradicts Hebrews 8-10 which teaches that Jesus made the final sacrifice for the atonement of sins forever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well no you are not thinking like a dispensationalist thinks.

No we do not interpret Zech. 12:10 at all! We accept it as written in context and coupled with all other verses that address the issue.

If you did you would know it is talking about a certain tiume that is yet to happen and is not all inclusive as you falsely accuse brethren of thinking.

A time that is yet to happen? Try to tell that to Jesus.

John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

Jesus quoted Zechariah 12:10 here and applied it to the actual ones who pierced His side. So, you are wrong to say that Zechariah 12:10 is yet to happen since that contradicts the timing that Jesus gave to that verse.

 

[Truther]

Your own quotes embarrass you.

Are "them that know the law" Gentile Christians or Jewish Christians?

You teach the book of Romans was written to Jews only?

Or, was the particular area of the book speaking specifically to those that understand the Law of Moses so he could elaborate?

 

[Truther]

Anti-Gentile is not racist?

if I am pro Jew I am anti gentile?

 

[covenantee]

You teach the book of Romans was written to Jews only?

It was written to the Church at Rome comprised of both Jews and Gentiles.

Or, was the particular area of the book speaking specifically to those that understand the Law of Moses so he could elaborate?

I couldn't have said it better myself. And who knew the Law of Moses?

I'm sure you don't need a hint.

 

[Truther]

That passage is quoted in Hebrews 8:8-13 in direct relation to the fulfillment of the long ago established new covenant which replaced the old covenant and its animal sacrifices and such. Is the new covenant only for Jews? The new covenant is all about Christ's shed blood providing salvation and the forgiveness of sins.

No, Heb 8 is quoting Jer 31 as a future prophecy of national Israel and Hebrews 10:15-17 is speaking to the audience of the book, inclusion into the specific, small part.

Anyone that teaches the entire promise of Jer 31/Heb 8 is for the church in some weird spiritual way is a replacement theologist.

 

[covenantee]

if I am pro Jew I am anti gentile?

Don't you believe that Gentiles are dogs?

 

[Truther]

Where is this taught in scripture?

Ezekiel 45-46.

 

[covenantee]

No, Heb 8 is quoting Jer 31 as a future prophecy of national Israel and Hebrews 10:15-17 is speaking to the audience of the book, inclusion into the specific, small part.

Anyone that teaches the entire promise of Jer 31/Heb 8 is for the church in some weird spiritual way is a replacement theologist.

I've already shown that Jeremiah 31 was fulfilled in Acts 2.

Are you having a comprehension problem?

 

[Truther]

LOL. Jesus was not slain from the foundation of the world. He was slain about 2,000 years ago. Is your belief that He was slain from the foundation of the world based on this verse:

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is not a good translation of that verse because it makes people think Jesus was somehow slain from the foundation of the world even though He was slain around 2,000 years ago instead.

Here is a better translation of that verse:

Revelation 13:8 (NASB) All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

In this translation you can see that it's not saing the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, but rather is saying that "the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered" has been written since the foundation of the world.

To try to say that Abel's offering was a memorial of Christ's death is laughable at best. And to say that about any of the Old Testament sacrifices were done as memorials for Christ's sacrifice is laughable as well. Those were performed as a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice, not as a memorial of His sacrifice.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Did God witness this or not?....


Psalm 22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

 

[Truther]

So, you believe that future animal sacrifices and offerings will be performed for the atonement of sins, as the following indicates:

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

Why would you believe that this will happen in the future when Jesus Christ already made His "once for all" sacrifice (Heb 10:10) for the atonement of the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2)? Can't you see what an insult it would be to Christ for animal sacrifices to be made in the future for the atonement of sins?

The prophecy in Ezekiel 40-48 was conditional and the conditions were not met.

Ezekiel 43:10 “Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider its perfection, 11 and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple—its arrangement, its exits and entrances—its whole design and all its regulations and laws. Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to its design and follow all its regulations.

This was in reference to the Israelite people of that time period long ago. They had to be "ashamed of all they have done" in order for the temple to be built for them. But, they were not. They did not repent. So, it was not built. To think it's talking about a future temple where animal sacrifices would be done "to make atonement for the Israelites" contradicts Hebrews 8-10 which teaches that Jesus made the final sacrifice for the atonement of sins forever.

Exactly when in history was Ezekiel 45-46 fulfilled?

Who was the prince?

 

[Truther]

It was written to the Church at Rome comprised of both Jews and Gentiles.



I couldn't have said it better myself. And who knew the Law of Moses?

I'm sure you don't need a hint.

Right, Paul wrote the book to the mixed crowd of saints, so was the book of Hebrews written to all the saints.

It just so happened that the gentiles had to get caught up regarding OT stuff.

 

[Truther]

Don't you believe that Gentiles are dogs?

Woof!

 

[Truther]

I've already shown that Jeremiah 31 was fulfilled in Acts 2.

Are you having a comprehension problem?

You showed me that every Jew was saved in Israel and Judah and they ceased to witness "know the Lord" to each other in Acts 2?

All Preterists teach that or just you?

 

[covenantee]

Right, Paul wrote the book to the mixed crowd of saints, so was the book of Hebrews written to all the saints.

It just so happened that the gentiles had to get caught up regarding OT stuff.

No, they didn't. They could watch the entertainment as Paul thrashed the Jewish saints who tried to exhume the old covenant carcass, as dispens do today.

Thanks for the guffaw.