The Bible.......why it is written ?

[winc]

it is written why it is written [Jn.20:31] is so that we may simply simply believe and continue to simply simply believe which according to Jesus is simply simply very difficult if not simply simply impossible for adults - so how is it possible for most to solve this dilemma - any comments - winc

 

[JimParker]

Belief takes humility.

Truth, like the truth that I am a sinner, takes humility to accept.

Repentance, choosing to submit to God's commands, requires humility.

What makes belief difficult is our arrogance, pride, habits of self-indulgence, stubbornness, insistence on being right, love of pleasure, avarice, greed, love of money and created things which will rot, etc. etc. etc.

 

[OzSpen]

it is written why it is written [Jn.20:31] is so that we may simply simply believe and continue to simply simply believe which according to Jesus is simply simply very difficult if not simply simply impossible for adults - so how is it possible for most to solve this dilemma - any comments - winc

Romans 10:8-17 tells us where it comes from:

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?[a] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ (ESV)

We need to understand that faith comes from God. He is the one who changes us. It is from the God-changed heart that we believe and are justified. But where does it start? With proclamation of the Gospel and God takes that Word to change us so that 'everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved'.

We will not be able to call on the name of the Lord without God's supernatural assistance.

I think there is too much semi-Pelagianism in our churches where human beings think that they are responsible for making the change and that human movement towards God is what makes the difference. I'm of the view that it is God's movement towards us and working in us that makes the difference. The semi-Pelagian believes the first step towards God is made by the unaided human will.

Roger E Olson has written a helpful article on 'American Christianity and semi-Pelagianism'. Roger Olson teaches at a George W Truett Theological Seminary, Baylor University, Waco TX (a Southern Baptist Seminary).

Oz

 

[Dan57]

We know God through His written word. How would you know the story of Jesus without the bible?
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

[OzSpen]

Belief takes humility.

Truth, like the truth that I am a sinner, takes humility to accept.

Repentance, choosing to submit to God's commands, requires humility.

What makes belief difficult is our arrogance, pride, habits of self-indulgence, stubbornness, insistence on being right, love of pleasure, avarice, greed, love of money and created things which will rot, etc. etc. etc.

Jim,

This thread is not attracting much traffic. I agree with you that belief takes humility, especially when we receive the evidence of our sinful state.

I consider that there is another dimension that many think is counter to belief. It's summarised in Hebrews 11:6 (NLT), 'And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him'.

Those who want to please God must have faith in Him. But they also must believe that God exists. What effort do we take in helping people who struggle with the existence of God? According to Heb 11:6 (NLT), one of the messages the Bible gives us from God is that people who want to come to God need to know He exists.

What points for interaction would we raise with people who have doubts about God's existence?

Oz

 

[JimParker]

Jim,

This thread is not attracting much traffic. I agree with you that belief takes humility, especially when we receive the evidence of our sinful state.

I consider that there is another dimension that many think is counter to belief. It's summarised in Hebrews 11:6 (NLT), 'And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him'.

Those who want to please God must have faith in Him. But they also must believe that God exists. What effort do we take in helping people who struggle with the existence of God? According to Heb 11:6 (NLT), one of the messages the Bible gives us from God is that people who want to come to God need to know He exists.

What points for interaction would we raise with people who have doubts about God's existence?

Oz

Possible points (formed as questions) are:

What is the purpose of man's existence or any individual's life?
On what do you base your concepts of good and evil?

 

[OzSpen]

Possible points (formed as questions) are:

What is the purpose of man's existence or any individual's life?
On what do you base your concepts of good and evil?

They could say:

1. Purpose is not a word I use. There is no real purpose in life. I'm here because Mum and Dad got together in bed and here I am. I make out of life what I want.
2. Good and evil are based on government or individual decisions. My government thinks abortion is OK so that's a good decision. I think that partying on Friday and Saturday nights is good. What IS is doing in Syria and other parts of the world is bad because it's against what their governments say is best for the country.

What do you say to these responses?

Oz

 

[JimParker]

They could say:

1. Purpose is not a word I use. There is no real purpose in life. I'm here because Mum and Dad got together in bed and here I am. I make out of life what I want.
2. Good and evil are based on government or individual decisions. My government thinks abortion is OK so that's a good decision. I think that partying on Friday and Saturday nights is good. What IS is doing in Syria and other parts of the world is bad because it's against what their governments say is best for the country.

What do you say to these responses?

Oz

Right. There is nothing that anyone could propose that a person who didn't want to accept couldn't come up with an excuse to reject.

Words do not convince people who don't want to believe. But, consistently behaving like Christ might draw then to His light.

 

[OzSpen]

Right. There is nothing that anyone could propose that a person who didn't want to accept couldn't come up with an excuse to reject.

Words do not convince people who don't want to believe. But, consistently behaving like Christ might draw then to His light.

Jim,

I don't think the 2 issues I raised at #7 are insurmountable. I would respond to them with:

1. Purpose may not be a word you use, but let's talk about how you were conceived. It doesn't matter whether Mum and Dad got together on a bed or the back seat of a car. How is it that a sperm joins with an ovum to create a foetus/baby? [My design here is to get to help them talk about the grand design that God has placed in the universe and also to know why that baby conceived may be normal or have disabilities. It leads to God's design and human being's sin - Genesis 3 and what went wrong.]
2. As for good and bad being, say, a government decision, how do I determine if the turn back the boats policy for refugees and illegal boat people is right or wrong, good or bad for the people and Australia? Why is what IS doing in Syria right or wrong?

I sometimes use the 'Judo Technique' that I learned in training with Evangelism Explosion. You can read my explanation by searching for 'Judo Technique' in my article, Why does God allow floods to devastate Australia?

Oz

 

[mjrhealth]

We know God through His written word. How would you know the story of Jesus without the bible?

Someone could tell you, plenty of people heard about jesus long before the bible was ever compiled (it was never writte it is a compilation of OT scripture and NT letters and seems to be misiing a bit), and do you think God needs it to save anyone??

in All His Love

 

[OzSpen]

Someone could tell you, plenty of people heard about jesus long before the bible was ever compiled (it was never writte it is a compilation of OT scripture and NT letters and seems to be misiing a bit), and do you think God needs it to save anyone??

in All His Love

Seems as though you may need some basic educating in bibliology:

1. Of course people heard of Jesus through oral tradition in the early years after his death. This was passed on by those who heard Jesus - originally by the eyewitnesses. Luke 1:1-4 (ESV) tells us about the many who compiled narratives, beginning with eyewitnesses.
2. The four Gospels and the Book of Acts are NOT a compilation of OT Scripture. Yes, there are some quotes by Jesus and others from the OT, but most of the NT Gospels are narratives that are NOT from the OT but from Jesus. The Book of Acts tells about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and the planting of early churches.
3. So the Bible is 'missing a bit', to use your language. How do you know that it is missing what God wanted there? Have you had some extra-biblical revelation about this?
4. There would be no message about the need for and content of salvation if it were not for the Bible. Yes, God has made it that you do need to know the Bible to know the Gospel. Try the content of John 3:16 (ESV).

Oz

 

[mjrhealth]

Oh so it is not possible for Christ or God or the holy Spirit to reach out to any one without the bible???

The Bible is barely the tip of the iceberg, compared to teh wisdom of God.

In all His Love

Oh how we limit Him so.

 

[JimParker]

Jim,

I don't think the 2 issues I raised at #7 are insurmountable. I would respond to them with:

1. Purpose may not be a word you use, but let's talk about how you were conceived. It doesn't matter whether Mum and Dad got together on a bed or the back seat of a car. How is it that a sperm joins with an ovum to create a foetus/baby? [My design here is to get to help them talk about the grand design that God has placed in the universe and also to know why that baby conceived may be normal or have disabilities. It leads to God's design and human being's sin - Genesis 3 and what went wrong.]
2. As for good and bad being, say, a government decision, how do I determine if the turn back the boats policy for refugees and illegal boat people is right or wrong, good or bad for the people and Australia? Why is what IS doing in Syria right or wrong?

I sometimes use the 'Judo Technique' that I learned in training with Evangelism Explosion. You can read my explanation by searching for 'Judo Technique' in my article, Why does God allow floods to devastate Australia?

Oz

Good points.

I think that each encounter will have it's own course based on the ideology of the unbelieving person.

I like your Judo (of, perhaps, Aikido) approach. Let them steer their bus to the edge of the cliff.

 

[OzSpen]

Oh so it is not possible for Christ or God or the holy Spirit to reach out to any one without the bible???

The Bible is barely the tip of the iceberg, compared to teh wisdom of God.

In all His Love

Oh how we limit Him so.

So, who do you depend on for reliable information about Jesus and salvation apart from the Bible?

 

[OzSpen]

Good points.

I think that each encounter will have it's own course based on the ideology of the unbelieving person.

I like your Judo (of, perhaps, Aikido) approach. Let them steer their bus to the edge of the cliff.

I agree that each conversation with an unbeliever will have different dynamics. I meet up with one such person this morning for coffee. He has been abandoned by his Croatian wife and he has turned to grog to soften his sorrow.

I also carry evangelistic copies of a summary tract, Two Ways to Live (that's the online version of the tract), that I sometimes give to people to read and we later discuss. It has minimal words and lots of diagrams. This suits our Aussie culture. That reminds me - I need to get 2 copies out of my filing cabinet to take with me.

Oz