The book of Job - real or allegorical?
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bbyrd009
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pretty sure he is allegorical, but even if he was real, the reason that he is in Scripture is to relate a spiritual lesson, right?
It isn't really a question of 'real' or 'allegory'. An allegory in the Bible is real also. See (Gal. 4:22-26) Sarah and Hagar were real. One was free born, one was in bondage. They were an allegory in speaking to being born of promise or being born in bondage. And being born in bondage speaks to Mt. Sinai and the earthly Jerusalem. Being born of promise speaks to the Jerusalem which is above.
The point here is that every part of the so called 'allegory' was real. And these real persons or places spoke to other things. So, it is not a question of real or allegory.
Yes, the book of Job really happened. Job was a real person as his friends were. The book of Job is not a parable.
Stranger
Doesn't that give modern science a valid motive to disprove God's omniscience, considering that God's explanation of natural phenomena from the Book of Job contradicts the scientific discoveries of our times?
I could answer you if you used smaller words. I am really child like and simple. What phenomena from Job are we meaning? You talking about the dinosaures in Job or what?
Science's only motive should be to make discoveries and learn. It should have no motive in disproving God's omniscience. And, God was not giving explanation of natural phenomena. In Job you see much of the supernatural. As you do throughout the Bible.
Stranger
how is it that God's explanation of "natural phenomena" in the book of Job contradicts that God is omniscience
VictoryinJesus
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Both. Especially (Job chapters 38-41) when the Lord speaks to Job out of the whirlwind. There are too many to list. Every line is profound and prophetic, considering Job is one of the oldest books. Every line is answered within His Word.
For instance: What ostrich leaves her eggs in the earth, warming them in the dust, forgetting that the foot may crush them? Her labour is in vain without fear. God has deprived her of wisdom, neither imparted understanding. She lifts herself up on high, she scorneth the horse and his rider. -This is no ordinary ostrich; the science of man will never understand it as truth.
Job 41: 31 "He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment"
John 12: 3-8 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.
For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always"
Matthew 26: 12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Of course it matters. Does it matter that Adam and Eve were real people and not an allegory? Of course it does.
The message is based on the truth of the historical event. If the historical event is not true, then neither is salvation.
How silly.
Stranger
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Na
Nah.
No difference. Jesus's parables hold important teachings and so does the story of Job.
Nothing wrong with silly
Nah.
No difference. Jesus's parables hold important teachings and so does the story of Job.
Nothing wrong with silly
101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, I believe the book is real. and reveals many thing that was, hidden, and unknown.
please post them so we may examine them.
Dcopymope
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My faith isn't built on allegories, otherwise my faith is of no use to anyone. Seriously, the allegorical babbling's people conjure up out of their heads needs to be kicked to the curb where it belongs. An allegorical Job would make God out to be like some little four year old talking to imaginary friends, its asinine to the core for Christs sake. The book of Job isn't the only place where the guy was mentioned. He was written about by Ezekiel and James, and they clearly saw him as a real man, who went through real trials and used him as an example of someone with unbreakable strength in his faith in God, who will never waver no matter the circumstances. He wasn't a wuss, like many of the effeminate believers today. He sucked it up and took it like a real man of God and was rewarded ten fold for his troubles. He is one of the greatest examples of what we as adopted Sons of God should be like, and MUST be like if we are to endure the Great Tribulation.
A parable is a parable. Nothing wrong in seeing a parable as a parable and interpreting it as such. But not everything Jesus said was a parable. Thus you don't interpret such as a parable.
And, the Bible is not a parable. It is not to be interpreted as a parable. The book of Job is written as an historical record about a man called Job and his experiences with God. If it didn't really occur, then his sufferings mean nothing to me. For they are just someone's thoughts or concepts.
This is the uniqueness of Biblical revelation. God reveals His word through real events and movements in history.
To see Job as a parable is silly. To say something did not occur when it did, is even worse than silly.
Stranger
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Of course you have no proof it is a historical record.....but if you say so that should be good enough....
The Bible says so. Thats all I need.
If Job is just a parable, then Daniel, and Noah are a parable. (Ez. 14:14) "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God." This is repeated in vs. (20)
Also, (James 5:11). "Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy." How could you see the end of the Lord if Job was not a real person? How could you see the Lord's mercy if Job was not a real person? You couldn't.
Job begins as an historical record and the New Testament supports that it is an historical record. There is nothing to indicate Job is a parable. Nothing but unbelief.
Stranger
VictoryinJesus
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Stranger, you know I have always valued your insight concerning God's word. I am not saying the book of Job is a parable. Job was a man but just because Job was a man and real, doesn't mean every word within the book can not also be prophetic and rich with spiritual treasure.
For instance Genesis 21: 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. The LORD placed those exact words in Sarah's mouth. They are prophetic. Sarah was real. Same as the book of Job. I plead with you to read again Job chapter 38-41. The prophetic words the Lord spoke out the whirlwind to Job is astonishing. God speaks in imagery. No one can look at the creation and deny His imagery. God has a language of imagery that is astounding, complex, and not elementary as one reader commented. A stone (an inanimate object) has no spiritual meaning until the Lord gives it meaning. Water has no meaning, until the Lord gives it meaning. Bread has no meaning, until He gives it meaning. Neither does unclean birds (fowls), beast of the field, green herbs, oil, candle sticks, lamps, reeds, garment, marriage, bed, seed, clouds, fish, bone, trees (palms, the trees of Lebanon, firs), straw, mountains, dragons, the behemoth and the Leviathan. One line? Maybe it is a stretch and by chance to force it to align. But every line? Every word that proceeds from the creators mouth? It is hard to argue. His consistency is overwhelming and builds upon the relationship I already have with Him, that BEGAN with faith in what the Son, Christ, did on the cross. It does not end there. It grows.
Why was Paul taken up into the third heaven? Why was Paul shown things that can not be uttered? John 15: 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
And this is what He tells me but I am afraid you and others will not like it. We call what happened with Hitler evil. He calls it good. He calls a slaughter of the flesh to accomplish an out-pouring out of cries for mercy and forgiveness...very good. Another slaughter is coming but not to condemn man but rather to save them. It is the ugly heart and nature of man that wants his enemies to get what they deserve. That is not the heart of God. Believing our greatest enemies can and will be redeemed through the blood of Christ does not diminish His blood or the work on the cross. Believing the Lord does not have the power to bring every proud and evil man to their knees confessing Him as Lord...does. The heart of God is to see enemies turned into brethren. The whirlwind is good. It produces relationship. Jesus Christ, as a baby, was swaddled in darkness. Job 38: 6-15 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? When (I made) the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as (clay to the seal); and they stand as a garment. And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. Job 41 tells us that the Leviathan is king over all the children of pride.
Jesus Christ was brought gifts of frankincense and myrrh, gifts meant for a burial. On the cross, Christ cried out for forgiveness of the dogs (his enemies nailing Him to the cross). God's heart is not to destroy without purpose, but rather to redeem and save. The Lord turns darkness into good. Those that love Him have nothing to fear. What is about to rise ( a slaughter) this world has never seen before will produce the latter rain and a great harvest...for the Lord. That is evils purpose(the great tribulation); to deliver lost sheep into the hand of a Mighty and Holy God. We should be focused on praying for our enemies, not praying they get what they deserve...
since we do not get what we deserve. We should be praying for them to be turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. Not out of spite but out of love and mercy that God's will be done...not ours.
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VictoryinJesus
Certainly there are many truths to be found throughout the Bible through the use of types or symbols or signs. And usually the Bible will define these somewhere so that we are not left to our own imagination.
The problem comes when the Bible is not seen as an historical record and only as symbolic or allegorical. Thus everything that is said is symbolic or allegorical. Thus the Bible is interpreted symbolically or allegorically. Sort of a Platonic interpretation; the Bible says this, but now we must find out the real meaning. For example, the 1000 year millennium. Many will say the 1000 years is just God's way of saying a long time. Well, I believe it is God's way of saying 1000 years.
I have no problem defining water in Scripture as just plain old water, or as the Word of God. Because Scripture so defines it in places. It all depends how it is being used. You can see this especially in the Old Testament structure of the Tabernacle. In all its construction it is a picture of Jesus Christ. As is the whole Old Testament. But the tabernacle was real, just as Job was real, just as Noah was real, just as Jonah was real etc. etc.
That is all I am saying.
Stranger
Certainly there are many truths to be found throughout the Bible through the use of types or symbols or signs. And usually the Bible will define these somewhere so that we are not left to our own imagination.
The problem comes when the Bible is not seen as an historical record and only as symbolic or allegorical. Thus everything that is said is symbolic or allegorical. Thus the Bible is interpreted symbolically or allegorically. Sort of a Platonic interpretation; the Bible says this, but now we must find out the real meaning. For example, the 1000 year millennium. Many will say the 1000 years is just God's way of saying a long time. Well, I believe it is God's way of saying 1000 years.
I have no problem defining water in Scripture as just plain old water, or as the Word of God. Because Scripture so defines it in places. It all depends how it is being used. You can see this especially in the Old Testament structure of the Tabernacle. In all its construction it is a picture of Jesus Christ. As is the whole Old Testament. But the tabernacle was real, just as Job was real, just as Noah was real, just as Jonah was real etc. etc.
That is all I am saying.
Stranger
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I am not saying it is historical or not historical; I am saying it makes no difference. In other words, I could careless about any history involved in the story - I am very interested in the allegory. I think a greater problem than not believing in the historical is, in fact, dismissing stories full of truth because you are so into proving the 'facts' to others and especially yourself.
We discount stories far too often.
We discount stories far too often.
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