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ChristisGod

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Hebrews 12:6 is not about sin correction. We are not disciplined for sin, because Jesus has already been Killed on the Cross for our sin.

Hebrews 12:6, is to deliver you into more inner holiness... Its a situation that refines you to be more Christ-Like.
Its the purging of some inner stronghold you have..... a wrong desire needs to go, that is rooted.
God targets this, and the effect of the removal can really really hurt. "Grievous".

Whipping you for sin, doesn't solve sin........just like it didnt solve it when your parents disciplined you.
You just learned to hide it better, next time.

Also, ananias and sapphira, were not born again.
They were trying to fool the believers, and get some Freebies.
They died trying that trick.
The story of Ananias and Sapphira is found in Acts 5, and it is a sad story, indeed. It actually begins at the end of chapter 4 with the description of the early church in Jerusalem, a group of believers so filled with the Holy Spirit that they were of one heart and one mind. Great power and grace were on the apostles, who preached and testified of the risen Savior. So knit together were the hearts of the people that they held all their possessions loosely and willingly shared them with one another, not because they were coerced but because they loved one another. Those who sold land and houses gave of their profits to the apostles, who distributed the gifts to those in need.

Two members of this group were Ananias and his wife, Sapphira; they also had sold a field. Part of the profit from their sale was kept back by the couple, and Ananias only laid a part of the money at the apostles’ feet. However, Ananias made a pretense of having given all the proceeds. This hypocritical show may have fooled some, but not Peter, who was filled with the power of the Spirit. Peter knew instantly that Ananias was lying—not just to him but to God—and exposed his hypocrisy then and there. Ananias fell down and died (Acts 5:4). When Sapphira showed up, she, too, lied to Peter and to God, saying that they had donated the entire proceeds of the sale of the land to the church. When her lie had been exposed, she also fell down and died at Peter’s feet.

Some speculate that these two deaths were from natural causes. Perhaps Ananias died from shock or guilt, but Peter pronounced Sapphira’s death before she died, and the coincidental timing and place of their deaths indicate that this was indeed God’s judgment. The question is why. Why would God kill two people for lying?

God’s reasons for bringing about the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira involve His abhorrence of sin, the hypocrisy of the couple, and the lesson for the rest of the church, both then and now. It can be easy today to gloss over the holiness of God, to forget that He is righteous and pure and that He hates sin wholeheartedly. This particular sin of hypocrisy in the church was dealt with swiftly and decisively.

Were Ananias and Sapphira saved? We believe they probably were. Their story is told in the context of the actions of “all the believers” (Acts 4:32). They knew of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3), and Ananias’s lie could have been an earlier promise that he would give the whole amount of the sale to the Lord. But the best evidence that they were children of God may be that they received discipline: “If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all” (Hebrews 12:8; see also 1 Corinthians 5:12). Ananias and his wife had conspired to garner the accolades of the church; but their conspiracy led to the sin unto death.

The case of Ananias and Sapphira illustrates the fact that even believers can be led into bold, flagrant sin. It was Satan that had filled their hearts to lie in this way (Acts 5:3) and “to test the Spirit of the Lord” (verse 9). Covetousness, hypocrisy, and a desire for the praise of men all played a part in their demise.

The sudden, dramatic deaths of Ananias and Sapphira served to purify and warn the church. “Great fear seized the whole church” (Acts 5:11). Right away, in the church’s infancy, God made it plain that hypocrisy and dissimulation were not going to be tolerated, and His judgment of Ananias and Sapphira helped guard the church against future pretense. God laid the bodies of Ananias and Sapphira in the path of every hypocrite who would seek to enter the church.

Furthermore, the incident involving Ananias and Sapphira helped to establish the apostles’ authority in the church. The sinners had fallen dead at Peter’s feet. It was Peter who had known of the secret sin and had the authority to pronounce judgment in the church (see Matthew 16:19). If the hypocrisy of Ananias and Sapphira had succeeded in fooling Peter, it would have severely damaged the apostles’ authority.

The sad story of Ananias and Sapphira is not some obscure incident from the Old Testament regarding a violation of Mosaic Law. This occurred in the first-century church to believers in Jesus Christ. The story of Ananias and Sapphira is a reminder to us today that God sees the heart (1 Samuel 16:7), that He hates sin, and that He is concerned for the purity of His church (1 Corinthians 11; 1 John 5). As Jesus told the compromising church in Thyatira, “All the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds” (Revelation 2:23).got ?

hope this helps !!!
 

Johann

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The story of Ananias and Sapphira is found in Acts 5, and it is a sad story, indeed. It actually begins at the end of chapter 4 with the description of the early church in Jerusalem, a group of believers so filled with the Holy Spirit that they were of one heart and one mind. Great power and grace were on the apostles, who preached and testified of the risen Savior. So knit together were the hearts of the people that they held all their possessions loosely and willingly shared them with one another, not because they were coerced but because they loved one another. Those who sold land and houses gave of their profits to the apostles, who distributed the gifts to those in need.

Two members of this group were Ananias and his wife, Sapphira; they also had sold a field. Part of the profit from their sale was kept back by the couple, and Ananias only laid a part of the money at the apostles’ feet. However, Ananias made a pretense of having given all the proceeds. This hypocritical show may have fooled some, but not Peter, who was filled with the power of the Spirit. Peter knew instantly that Ananias was lying—not just to him but to God—and exposed his hypocrisy then and there. Ananias fell down and died (Acts 5:4). When Sapphira showed up, she, too, lied to Peter and to God, saying that they had donated the entire proceeds of the sale of the land to the church. When her lie had been exposed, she also fell down and died at Peter’s feet.

Some speculate that these two deaths were from natural causes. Perhaps Ananias died from shock or guilt, but Peter pronounced Sapphira’s death before she died, and the coincidental timing and place of their deaths indicate that this was indeed God’s judgment. The question is why. Why would God kill two people for lying?

God’s reasons for bringing about the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira involve His abhorrence of sin, the hypocrisy of the couple, and the lesson for the rest of the church, both then and now. It can be easy today to gloss over the holiness of God, to forget that He is righteous and pure and that He hates sin wholeheartedly. This particular sin of hypocrisy in the church was dealt with swiftly and decisively.

Were Ananias and Sapphira saved? We believe they probably were. Their story is told in the context of the actions of “all the believers” (Acts 4:32). They knew of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3), and Ananias’s lie could have been an earlier promise that he would give the whole amount of the sale to the Lord. But the best evidence that they were children of God may be that they received discipline: “If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all” (Hebrews 12:8; see also 1 Corinthians 5:12). Ananias and his wife had conspired to garner the accolades of the church; but their conspiracy led to the sin unto death.

The case of Ananias and Sapphira illustrates the fact that even believers can be led into bold, flagrant sin. It was Satan that had filled their hearts to lie in this way (Acts 5:3) and “to test the Spirit of the Lord” (verse 9). Covetousness, hypocrisy, and a desire for the praise of men all played a part in their demise.

The sudden, dramatic deaths of Ananias and Sapphira served to purify and warn the church. “Great fear seized the whole church” (Acts 5:11). Right away, in the church’s infancy, God made it plain that hypocrisy and dissimulation were not going to be tolerated, and His judgment of Ananias and Sapphira helped guard the church against future pretense. God laid the bodies of Ananias and Sapphira in the path of every hypocrite who would seek to enter the church.

Furthermore, the incident involving Ananias and Sapphira helped to establish the apostles’ authority in the church. The sinners had fallen dead at Peter’s feet. It was Peter who had known of the secret sin and had the authority to pronounce judgment in the church (see Matthew 16:19). If the hypocrisy of Ananias and Sapphira had succeeded in fooling Peter, it would have severely damaged the apostles’ authority.

The sad story of Ananias and Sapphira is not some obscure incident from the Old Testament regarding a violation of Mosaic Law. This occurred in the first-century church to believers in Jesus Christ. The story of Ananias and Sapphira is a reminder to us today that God sees the heart (1 Samuel 16:7), that He hates sin, and that He is concerned for the purity of His church (1 Corinthians 11; 1 John 5). As Jesus told the compromising church in Thyatira, “All the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds” (Revelation 2:23).got ?

hope this helps !!!

Fully concur.
 
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Behold

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I am asking, for the third time-do YOU sin, in word, thought and deed?

I answered you.
The problem is, i can't teach you to understand my answer.

You dont understand what is "the born again Christian" who is "in Christ'". "made righteous"
So, you can't hear any answer that does not agree with your idea that you are a sinner., and that Christians are sinners.

Listen..... you BELIEVE you are a sinner,.. You BELIEVE IT....Its your FAITH....... and Jesus said that if you have faith, you get what you believe.

And that is just one of your spiritual and theological issues, Johann.
 

Behold

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So you can keep on sinning but stand on the veracity of Scriptures?

You mean, that YOU can keep on sinning and then teach that because you are a sinner, the rest of the members here, are just like you.

Sorry.
Wrong answer, again.

The born again are not sinners, they are Saints.
The born again, are "made FREE FROM SIn".
You are not, according to your posts.


Romans 6:22

"being NOW .... made free from sin......"

"NOW"

"Made FREE from sin"..

That is to be made free from the power of sin, and to be made free from the effect of sin.,and made free from the eternal judgment for sin.
 
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Johann

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I answered you.
The problem is, i can't teach you to understand my answer.

You dont understand what is "the born again Christian" who is "in Christ'". "made righteous"
So, you can't hear any answer that does not agree with your idea that you are a sinner., and that Christians are sinners.

Listen..... you BELIEVE you are a sinner,.. You BELIEVE IT....Its your FAITH....... and Jesus said that if you have faith, you get what you believe.

And that is just one of your spiritual and theological issues, Johann.
A nice deflection-both you and @Michiah-Imla NOT being transparent-what are you hiding in your closet? Your hidden Isaac?

See, not misrepresenting you, quoting your whole post, publicly, not willing to give me a yes, or no. Why?
 

Ritajanice

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Romans 61 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, [1] that we should no longer be slaves to sin--7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death!22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in [2] Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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ChristisGod

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Why dont you run along back to your sandbox and let the actual Adults have some more conversation, Michiah-Imla.
Mark 9:50
Salt is good, but if the salt loses its saltiness, with what will you season it? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with one another."

Colossians 4:6
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen.

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect
 
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Behold

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A nice deflection-both you and @Michiah-Imla NOT being transparent-
I have over 300 Threads here., posted.
over 10,000 posts.

Im probably the most TRANSPARENT member here, as i put my THEOLOGY and Belief System, in front of the world, and not just here.


For some reason, you feel that if you dont like what i teach, or believe what i say, then you have proven your opinion.
All you have proven is that you dont understand what it means to be Saved., as "in Christ"..>"born again".
You can fake it,.... you can "cut and paste it"...... but you can't yet understand it, Johann.

It is perhaps somewhat related to the language barrier that is denying you more access to what im teaching.
That's probably some of it.
I'll give you that.
 

Eternally Grateful

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People take a simple verse or passage and make a mockery of it.

the first thing we need to do is look at it in lite of the whole of scripture

John said if we say we have no sin we are deceived. He spoke of present tense and included himself..

The same author then states that those who sin have never seen or known God. and those born of God do not sin.

a major contradiction. How can the same author say we are deceived if we claim we are sinless. Yet if we are saved we can not sin.

well that is the problem with the English text. which is a fault of the English language.

In reality. The text says whoever practices. or whoever lives in sin has never seen or known God.. Whoever is born of God can not practice or live in sin.

A non believer practices sin, he lives in sin, he does nto know any better.

a child of God can nto do this. He will nto only be chastened by the Holy Spirit when he steps out of line, He is a new creature. and sin does not have the same effect it did before. it is poison..

those who claim they have achieved sinless perfection in this lifetime the moment they were saved do not understand what sin is.. They are decieved, as John said.. Do not let the deciever decieve us.. Paul did not make it. he still ran the race up until the end. As he showed in Romans 7, he still sinned..

Once we think we have made it. we are in dire danger..
 

Johann

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You mean, that YOU can keep on sinning and then teach that because you are a sinner, the rest of the members here, are just like you.

Sorry.
Wrong answer, again.

The born again are not sinners, they are Saints.
The born again, are "made FREE FROM SIn".
You are not, according to your posts.
You think I am making excuses TO sin? According to my posts, I have informed @marks that sinless perfection is potentially possible, yet in reality there are no sinless person on this planet-you are misrepresenting me again and again-where did I say I KEEP on sinning? Do you have a problem with reading comprehension

Again-where did I say I KEEP on sinning? And where, in my posts do I make "excuses TO sin?!"

1 Kings 8:46
Verse Concepts
“When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

Ecclesiastes 7:20

Verse Concepts
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:10
Verse Concepts
as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;

Psalm 14:1
Verse Concepts
For the choir director. A Psalm of David.
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;
There is no one who does good.

Psalm 14:3
Verse Concepts
They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

Psalm 53:1
Verse Concepts
For the choir director; according to Mahalath. A Maskil of David.
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God,”
They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice;
There is no one who does good.

Psalm 53:3
Verse Concepts
Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

Psalm 143:2

Verse Concepts
And do not enter into judgment with Your servant,

For in Your sight no man living is righteous.

Romans 3:9

Verse Concepts
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

Romans 3:23
Verse Concepts
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Galatians 3:22
Verse Concepts
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Matthew 7:11
Verse Concepts
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

Luke 11:13
Verse Concepts
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

Matthew 15:18-19

But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.

Job 15:16
Verse Concepts
How much less one who is detestable and corrupt,
Man, who drinks iniquity like water!

Jeremiah 30:14
Verse Concepts
‘All your lovers have forgotten you,
They do not seek you;
For I have wounded you with the wound of an enemy,
With the punishment of a cruel one,
Because your iniquity is great
And your sins are numerous.

Jeremiah 30:15
Verse Concepts
‘Why do you cry out over your injury?
Your pain is incurable.
Because your iniquity is great
And your sins are numerous,
I have done these things to you.

Jeremiah 44:9
Verse Concepts
Have you forgotten the wickedness of your fathers, the wickedness of the kings of Judah, and the wickedness of their wives, your own wickedness, and the wickedness of your wives, which they committed in the land of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

Jeremiah 32:30
Verse Concepts
Indeed the sons of Israel and the sons of Judah have been doing only evil in My sight from their youth; for the sons of Israel have been only provoking Me to anger by the work of their hands,” declares the Lord.

Jeremiah 32:32
because of all the evil of the sons of Israel and the sons of Judah which they have done to provoke Me to anger—they, their kings, their leaders, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Zechariah 5:6
Verse Concepts
I said, “What is it?” And he said, “This is the ephah going forth.” Again he said, “This is their appearance in all the land

Romans 6:17
Verse Concepts
But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

2 Peter 2:4
Verse Concepts
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Verse Concepts
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

1 John 3:8
Verse Concepts
the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.


--there is NO one who does not sin-yet in your words to me you are sinning-blaspheming, bearing false witness, having an evil, evil eye-here it is again, 4th time now, are you sinning, unable of committing an act of sin-notice my metaphors, the nuances-there for those who have eyes to see.
 

Behold

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Mark 9:50
Salt is good, but if the salt loses its saltiness, with what will you season it? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with one another."

Colossians 4:6
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen.

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect

You have to have a balanced Theology, and not just the 2nd Commandment, as a Tattoo.

There is more to Christianity,..

Let me show you...



" You are of your father The Devil" and the lusts of your father you will do"......That's Jesus talking

"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.""" that Paul talking​

""""And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?​

And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season"...... and again that is Paul. And if you know of Paul's conversion, Jesus took away his sight for 3 days.​

Christophany, ... Jesus made that person blind, and Paul as well.​

Welcome To CHRISTianity...​

Its not just about trying to be nice to hateful, carnal, people.​

Paul said, 'as much as it lies within you, do good to everyone". He never said to be a door mat.​

The Love of God, includes Hell and the Lake of Fire.​


Wake up.

"
 

Behold

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You think I am making excuses TO sin? According to my posts,

Not at all.

I said you have no understanding of "Now being made free from sin".

You have a belief system issue... you have broken faith, and you keep it broken because you have been taught to do it,
And the worst of all, is that you have been programmed to reject the WAY OUT of your theological and spiritual issue.

Its a STRONGHOLD that has you.

This is "deception" rooted.

It has to come out, it has to be broken, torn down.......uprooted.


Ok then, ive enjoyed what is going on here...........as i know deliverance is possible.

Will talk to you later....going now to partake of some sustenance.
 
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Johann

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People take a simple verse or passage and make a mockery of it.

the first thing we need to do is look at it in lite of the whole of scripture

John said if we say we have no sin we are deceived. He spoke of present tense and included himself..

The same author then states that those who sin have never seen or known God. and those born of God do not sin.

a major contradiction. How can the same author say we are deceived if we claim we are sinless. Yet if we are saved we can not sin.

well that is the problem with the English text. which is a fault of the English language.

In reality. The text says whoever practices. or whoever lives in sin has never seen or known God.. Whoever is born of God can not practice or live in sin.

A non believer practices sin, he lives in sin, he does nto know any better.

a child of God can nto do this. He will nto only be chastened by the Holy Spirit when he steps out of line, He is a new creature. and sin does not have the same effect it did before. it is poison..

those who claim they have achieved sinless perfection in this lifetime the moment they were saved do not understand what sin is.. They are decieved, as John said.. Do not let the deciever decieve us.. Paul did not make it. he still ran the race up until the end. As he showed in Romans 7, he still sinned..

Once we think we have made it. we are in dire danger..
Well said, in full agreement-notice the deflection of both these spiritual giants, Hinei! @Behold and his comrades-one this question, DO they sin, i.e., capable of committing an ACT of sin-no response, in other words, he does hold to "sinless perfection" implied everywhere, but a coward to say yes, or no, instead, playing the victim, resorting to slander.

Right, now that I'm "fired up" time for a break, go to gym and cool down.
 
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ChristisGod

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You have to have a balanced Theology, and not just the 2nd Commandment, as a Tattoo.

There is more to Christianity,..

Let me show you...



" You are of your father The Devil" and the lusts of your father you will do"......That's Jesus talking

"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.""" that Paul talking​

""""And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?​

And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season"...... and again that is Paul. And if you know of Paul's conversion, Jesus took away his sight for 3 days.​

Christophany, ... Jesus made that person blind, and Paul as well.​

Welcome To CHRISTianity...​

Its not just about trying to be nice to hateful, carnal, people.​

Paul said, 'as much as it lies within you, do good to everyone". He never said to be a door mat.​

The Love of God, includes Hell and the Lake of Fire.​


Wake up.

"
Well for staters you are not Jesus or an Apostle who knows the hearts on men.

Hope this helps !!!
 
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