The Bride

[farouk]

If you are referring to Daniel's prophecy, please note that the Church is not presented in that passage but only Christ, who is the Stone and the Rock, and His eternal Kingdom on earth:

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. (Dan 2:44,45)

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14)

I don't see the church in the Old Testament.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I don't see the church in the Old Testament.

Isa 65:9 is future prophecy. The OT is full of them, from Isa to Mal.

 

[farouk]

Isa 65:9 is future prophecy. The OT is full of them, from Isa to Mal.

Must be a different book I'm reading. The one I read says the church began at Pentecost in Acts. The Old Testament speaks a lot about Israel's future on earth, but the volume I read doesn't seem to refer to the church in the Old Testament. At all.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Must be a different book I'm reading. The one I read says the church began at Pentecost in Acts. The Old Testament speaks a lot about Israel's future on earth, but the volume I read doesn't seem to refer to the church in the Old Testament. At all.

Yes, the church was conceived in Acts 2 and the birth of church is resurrection and rapture in 1 Cor 15:50-55 and 1 Thess 4:17 prior to 70th week. Isa 65:9 however is Earthly Israel becoming one with Spiritual Israel in the 1000 yr.

 

[farouk]

Yes, the church was conceived in Acts 2 and the birth of church is resurrection and rapture in 1 Cor 15:50-55 and 1 Thess 4:17 prior to 70th week. Isa 65:9 however is Earthly Israel becoming one with Spiritual Israel in the 1000 yr.

Where is the church mentioned in Isaiah 65.9?

 

[CoreIssue]

And how do you sever the Head from the Body?

What are you talking about?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Where is the church mentioned in Isaiah 65.9?

It's a cross reference for Spiritual Israel in Isa 27:6, 12, Joel 2:27, Joel 3:16, Amos 9:14-1. Commentaries are loaded with SI.

 

[farouk]

It's a cross reference for Spiritual Israel in Isa 27:6, 12, Joel 2:27, Joel 3:16, Amos 9:14-1. Commentaries are loaded with SI.

Aren't such commentaries Reformed? and weren't the editors that put in marginal references also of a similar, rather than a dispensational, outlook?

 

[CoreIssue]

It has already been mentioned that Jesus said- " Saul, Saul , why persecute thou ME? "
And it was The Church that Saul was killing and imprisoning...Jesus identified His Church as Himself. They are one.

Not actually. The church is the body of Christ withe Christ as the head. Just as a general is the head of an army, the president the head of the nation, etc.

It also says every part of the body has a different function and we are those parts. We are not the head, Christ is. Christ is not the arms, legs, toes, fingers, etc. Nor are the saints composing the literal body parts listed.

Yes, the Bible is literal. Figurative language is also literal when used to convey a literal message.

I guess you believe Satan is a dragon and the
AC and False Prophet are Beasts, Israel's a fig tree and all Church saints merge into one female bride.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Aren't such commentaries Reformed? and weren't the editors that put in marginal references also of a similar, rather than a dispensational, outlook?

The Genealogy of Jesus is in Matt 1. Are we not a part of Israel with the indwelling Holy Spirit. Was Jesus not Jewish?

 

[farouk]

The Genealogy of Jesus is in Matt 1. Are we not a part of Israel with the indwelling Holy Spirit. Was Jesus not Jewish?

The church hadn't begun in Matthew 1. It began in Acts 2. I belong outside the camp, with the discarded, burned carcasses of the beasts whose blood was brought into the sanctuary under the old and surpassed system. I'm in the place of reproach outside the camp and it's where the Lord Jesus is.

"10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13.10-15)

 

[Heb 13:8]

The church hadn't begun in Matthew 1. It began in Acts 2. I belong outside the camp, with the discarded, burned carcasses of the beasts whose blood was brought into the sanctuary under the old and surpassed system. I'm in the place of reproach outside the camp and it's where the Lord Jesus is.

"10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13.10-15)

Matt 1:1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Rom 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

 

[farouk]

Matt 1:1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Rom 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

...but these verses do not say that the church is Israel.

I'm not under the law, either. Hebrews tells me that the law was changed. It also tells me that what we now have is better than the law.

 

[Heb 13:8]

...but these verses do not say that the church is Israel.

I'm not under the law, either. Hebrews tells me that the law was changed. It also tells me that what we now have is better than the law.

I agree, and so does Paul, a descendant of Abraham who is also in the body of Christ, who also had the spirit of Christ, Christ also being another descendant of Abraham. Don't you see?

 

[Heb 13:8]

...but these verses do not say that the church is Israel.

I'm not under the law, either. Hebrews tells me that the law was changed. It also tells me that what we now have is better than the law.

Matt 1:1

huios: a son
Original Word: υἱός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: huios
Phonetic Spelling: (hwee-os')
Definition: a son
Usage: a son, descendent.

 

[farouk]

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Col 1:18

Great verse there from Ephesians!

Trusting Mrs. Amadeus is having a restful and more comfortable evening now.

 

[amadeus]

Great verse there from Ephesians!

Trusting Mrs. Amadeus is having a restful and more comfortable evening now.

Thank you, yes! We had a long drive last night to pick up our stolen car about 70 miles away. My wife was my second and she was exhausted but tonight all is calm and she is resting as she should be.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't see the church in the Old Testament.

Correct. That is exactly what Paul also said. But we do have prophecies of Christ being a Light to the Gentiles.

 

[farouk]

Correct. That is exactly what Paul also said. But we do have prophecies of Christ being a Light to the Gentiles.

Yes, indeed; and of course with the church being a revealed mystery and a heavenly people, while Israel and Old Testament passages relating more to Israel as an earthly people, it is the role of Israel as a channel of blessing to all nations on earth that these passages seem to have as their emphasis, with some events spoken of in the Old Testament referring to conditions on earth after the church - not mentioned in the OT - has gone.

 

[CoreIssue]

The 24 Elders of Revelations are the 24 Elders found in OT Israel.

The New Jerusalem's foundation are the 12 tribes of Israel.

Israel is the wife of God the Father and the guests at the wedding supper of the lamb.

Ephesians 3:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Plus there are saved that predate Israel, neither jew or gentile, who I believe live outside of the New Jerusalem.