The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

[Bob Estey]

Matt 22:
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

True, but the Ten Commandments help define the two great ones.

 

[Bob Estey]

I can SIN “no more”, (never again NOT Believe, Never Able to Stand Against God)

Are these the only two sins? If I bear false witness, am I sinning?

 

[Taken]

True, but the Ten Commandments help define the two great ones.

Sure.

 

[Taken]

Are these the only two sins? If I bear false witness, am I sinning?

Against God, a false testimony, yes a sin.
~ The harm is man Against God.

Against a man, a false testimony, a trespass.
~ The harm is man Against man.

 

[Bob Estey]

Against God, a false testimony, yes a sin.
~ The harm is man Against God.

Against a man, a false testimony, a trespass.
~ The harm is man Against man.

So if I falsely accuse you of shooting someone, I haven't sinned?

 

[St. SteVen]

You say we are all sinners

Was I wrong?

but Jesus told us to repent (Matthew 4:17).

Right.

Was he asking the impossible?

Of course not.

/

 

[Taken]

So if I falsely accuse you of shooting someone, I haven't sinned?

You trespassed against me.
You harmed me.


Mark 2
[7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke.5
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

If you wanted forgiveness for your “act” Against me?

Whom would you ask? God, a court Judge?
How would that right your wrong Against me?

Matt 6:
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Why does Scripture teach or men to forgive men their trespasses?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bob Estey]

You trespassed against me.
You harmed me.


Mark 2
[7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke.5
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

If you wanted forgiveness for your “act” Against me?

Whom would you ask? God, a court Judge?
How would that right your wrong Against me?

Matt 6:
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Why does Scripture teach or men to forgive men their trespasses?

Glory to God,
Taken

So if I murder someone, bare false witness, assault and rob someone, or commit adultery, I haven't sinned?

 

[amadeus]

Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife.
As the previous trend for fire-and-brimstone preaching has all but gone the way of the dinosaur.
Leaning toward a more personalized stance on "eternal separation from God". (whatever that means to you)

- What's your definition of hell?
- How do you see the final judgment playing out?
- Will everyone be saved in the end?
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?

This video presents three views. Which view do you resonate with?

- Damnationism
- Annihilationism
- Universalism

/

I will take Annihilationism, seeing hell to be like the fiery furnace into which the three Hebrew children were thrown in the Book of Daniel. Our God is a consuming fire, but will He warm us and protect us or burn us up? Consider also our foundation and what we are to use as building materials:

1co 3:11	For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1co 3:12	Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1co 3:13	Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1co 3:14	If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1co 3:15	If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Without the proper foundation of Jesus and with the wrong building materials we will be completely consumed. With the three Hebrews, only the ropes which bound them were burned. Are we ready?

Da 3:17	If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
Da 3:18	But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

 

[St. SteVen]

I will take Annihilationism, seeing hell to be like the fiery furnace into which the three Hebrew children were thrown in the Book of Daniel. Our God is a consuming fire, but will He warm us and protect us or burn us up? Consider also our foundation and what we are to use as building materials:

1co 3:11	For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1co 3:12	Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1co 3:13	Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1co 3:14	If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1co 3:15	If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Without the proper foundation of Jesus and with the wrong building materials we will be completely consumed. With the three Hebrews, only the ropes which bound them were burned. Are we ready?

Da 3:17	If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
Da 3:18	But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Thank you.
I find it interesting that your reasoning would also support Christian Universalism.
Universalists believe that the bad works (ropes that bind us) will be burned up, but we will not be harmed. (we = all)

/

 

[amadeus]

Thank you.
I find it interesting that your reasoning would also support Christian Universalism.
Universalists believe that the bad works (ropes that bind us) will be burned up, but we will not be harmed. (we = all)

/

But remember what the heat of the fire did to the mightiest men of Nebuchadnezzar's army:

Da 3:20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace. Da 3:21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Da 3:22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

 

[Taken]

So if I murder someone, bare false witness, assault and rob someone, or commit adultery, I haven't sinned?

Did you murder God, give a false testimony about God, commit cheating Against God with another god, steal from God, assault God? Then yes you sinned Against God.

Otherwise if you did those things Against another person, you trespassed Against them, and You can ask their Forgiveness and they can Forgive your Trespass…
Or decline forgiving you.

God forgives many offenses men commit Against Him (except Lying to the Spirit of God).
God teaches men to forgive men of their trespasses Against them…..”IF”…

Luke 17
[3] Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

By the same measure, If men sin against God, and “IF” they repent, Gods forgives them.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bob Estey]

Did you murder God, give a false testimony about God, commit cheating Against God with another god, steal from God, assault God? Then yes you sinned Against God.

Otherwise if you did those things Against another person, you trespassed Against them, and You can ask their Forgiveness and they can Forgive your Trespass…
Or decline forgiving you.

God forgives many offenses men commit Against Him (except Lying to the Spirit of God).
God teaches men to forgive men of their trespasses Against them…..”IF”…

Luke 17
[3] Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

By the same measure, If men sin against God, and “IF” they repent, Gods forgives them.

Glory to God,
Taken

I think if I murder someone, I have sinned.

 

[amigo de christo]

You seem to really be into self-promotion . . .

Anyway, to your OP . . .

Yet another universalism thread, making God a liar.

Revelation 20:11-15 KJV
11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

While you've asked about "hell", I've answered with the lake of fire, the second death. You do well to heed the Scriptures.

No one has any perceptions of hell, no one alive has been there. But many like to ignore the fact that God will judge sinner, and all who are not alive in Christ will be dead forever.

Much love!

Instead of preaching the one true way to GOD , folks had rather invent another verision of GOD .
The bottom line is , We ought to preach JESUS CHRIST rather than to try and air condition or omit the lake of fire .
WERE we not warned , NOT too add too or take from the book of revelation .
BUT this is how inclusvism will get the foothold . rather than preaching the dire necessity to have believed on JESUS CHRIST
it brings in false ideals and hopes about perhaps a good ending for those who did not . THIS LAMB wont buy it .
Rather we shall heed the words of JESUS CHRIST . He said what HE said about those who denied and beleived not
and his words made their end sound REAL BAD . no hope , no none at all . HE said words like worse for them than it ever
was for sodom. TIME we preach JESUS CHRIST . OFFERING UP THE TRUE HOPE . as i am sure you do agree .

 

[Taken]

I think if I murder someone, I have sinned.

I think if you ARE converted (born again) you couldn’t murder someone. Kill yes, murder no.

 

[Behold]

Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife.

God's perception of Hell hasn't changed since He '""created it for the Devil and His Angels"""", before Adam was created.

And once Adam rebelled and became the "fallen nature", which is to become an "adamic" son of the DEVIL, spiritually...

A.) Jesus said "YOU are of YOUR Father, the DEVIL, and the LUSTS (sin) of your Father, YOU Will do".

So, what does that mean?
It means that the unbelievers, never born again.....are still the spiritual progeny of THEIR Father, = THE Devil, and until they are BORN....AGAIN, = by a NEW SPIRITUAL FATHER,...... they remain, = "you are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL"..

And HELL is waiting for their Father, and for THEM., and thousands who were were water baptized and never BORN Again ,, ...died today and went to HELL.


Find the reason they are in Hell.....right here...

= John 3:36.


So, who is "redefining Hell" theologically and regarding many denominations?

A.) Everyone who is trying to air condition it, before they die and move in.....

And Reader, i hope this is not your pastor, or you, or your church, or your denomination.

 

[Bob Estey]

I think if you ARE converted (born again) you couldn’t murder someone. Kill yes, murder no.

I think it is a sin to murder someone, and I suspect 99.99999% of all Christians would agree with me.

 

[Grailhunter]

It would be pretty easy to copy all the scriptures here about an eternal fiery place of torment but that has been done and people are still resistant to believe.

But that is just part of the story that proves Hell exists and I have a whole write up on Hell and the languages used to describe it.

And Christ and the Apostles described it in different ways, which is proof that they believed in an eternal fiery place of torment. Th same thing described different ways.

The issue was that the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek did not have a specific word for an eternal fiery place of torment, Christ and Apostles used the Greek word Hades….which is a Greco-Roman god and the realm he presides over. Christ used examples like Gehenna and stories to describe Hell and the pain associated with it. But it was always painful and eternal.

Beliefs, Truths, Facts…..Generalities….We can understand truths at the level that we can comprehend and God cannot explain things that we cannot comprehend. Which is probably why the scriptures do not give a detailed description of Hell or Heaven even though both definitely exists.

Even though Hell may be less painful than standing in fire or more painful than standing in fire, we are not going to really know. Fire….roasting was about the worse pain they knew of. If they had electricity Hell may have been described as being hooked up to 440 volts for eternity.

Whatever it is it involves agony.
Whatever it is, it is eternal….No warning about going to Hell for a while or the possibility of a pardon. Or a story of someone that was in Hell and came out of it.

People with sinful life styles may want to be Christian but they do not want to believe there is a Hell….a true sign of the times because the Bible nor Christian history shows support for the belief that Hell does not exists.

 

[Taken]

I think it is a sin to murder someone, and I suspect 99.99999% of all Christians would agree with me.

Did someone say they don’t believe Murder is a sin?

 

[Bob Estey]

Did someone say they don’t believe Murder is a sin?

Didn't you say, in so many words, that nothing is a sin unless it's done directly against God? Otherwise, didn't you say, it is merely a trespass?