The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

[St. SteVen]

Does it matter what we think or what the Lord God has said?

The potential conceit of doctrinal individuality

Typical statements of biblical/doctrinal conceit:
- "Haven't you read the Bible?"
- "God told me..."
- "Who should I believe; you, or God?"
- "God's Word disagrees with you."
Such statements are usually used to win a debate.
Playing "the God card" to end the discussion.

/

 

[Bob Estey]

Does it matter what we think or what the Lord God has said?

The Lord God has established “His way” for a person to receive “sanctification”. Addictions to or from are not mentioned.
He did not come to MAKE our bodies “perfect, sinless, glorified”…..YET.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I don't see anything there that suggests a person suddenly stops sinning when they turn to the Lord. Before you can stop sinning, you have to learn what sin is.

 

[Taken]

I don't see anything there that suggests a person suddenly stops sinning when they turn to the Lord. Before you can stop sinning, you have to learn what sin is.

Going in circles.
Already had this conversation…
Sin is non-belief, un-belief in the Lord God Almighty.

If you think addictions to “whatever” is a sin, that is your prerogative.


Matt 6:
[25] Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

 

[Bob Estey]

Going in circles.
Already had this conversation…
Sin is non-belief, un-belief in the Lord God Almighty.

If you think addictions to “whatever” is a sin, that is your prerogative.


Matt 6:
[25] Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

It's not rocket science. You turn to God and God begins working on you.

 

[Taken]

It's not rocket science. You turn to God and God begins working on you.

I don't see anything there that suggests a person suddenly stops sinning when they turn to the Lord. Before you can stop sinning, you have to learn what sin is.

It's not rocket science. You turn to God and God begins working on you.

You are the one who used a scenario of an addiction to alcohol being a sin.

You are the one expressing difficulty of stopping drinking which you call a sin.

If that is YOU, stop trying to include Me in “YOUR problem”, that God is supposedly “working on”.

While YOU imply God can “work on a persons SIN of alcohol addiction”, and that “working on by God has helped you”…
Then state your testimony, without trying to include me in “your” problem, and “your” solution.

According to Gods Word, Non-Belief IN the Lord God IS man’s SIN AGAINST the Lord God. And a man’s SIN Against the Holy Spirit IS Lying TO the Holy Spirit.

My Belief and My Confession OF Belief IN the Lord God Almighty has been “establish-ED” for many years. My “SERVICE” unto the Lord God has been “MY ongoing works For His Glory”.

IF addictions or other personal problems plague YOU, and YOU believe “your problems are SINS” , and YOU want God to “work on your problems”… that’s YOU. Don’t include me in what is “your problems”.
“Your problems apply to You…not me”.

 

[Bob Estey]

You are the one who used a scenario of an addiction to alcohol being a sin.

You are the one expressing difficulty of stopping drinking which you call a sin.

If that is YOU, stop trying to include Me in “YOUR problem”, that God is supposedly “working on”.

While YOU imply God can “work on a persons SIN of alcohol addiction”, and that “working on by God has helped you”…
Then state your testimony, without trying to include me in “your” problem, and “your” solution.

According to Gods Word, Non-Belief IN the Lord God IS man’s SIN AGAINST the Lord God. And a man’s SIN Against the Holy Spirit IS Lying TO the Holy Spirit.

My Belief and My Confession OF Belief IN the Lord God Almighty has been “establish-ED” for many years. My “SERVICE” unto the Lord God has been “MY ongoing works For His Glory”.

IF addictions or other personal problems plague YOU, and YOU believe “your problems are SINS” , and YOU want God to “work on your problems”… that’s YOU. Don’t include me in what is “your problems”.
“Your problems apply to You…not me”.

Years ago the Lord led me away from alcohol.

 

[Taken]

Years ago the Lord led me away from alcohol.

Ok. Good for you Bob.

 

[Rockerduck]

I believe what Jesus said about Hell over what anyone says.

Mark 9:43 - If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand than to go into the unquenchable fires of hell with two hands.

 

[St. SteVen]

I believe what Jesus said about Hell over what anyone says.

Mark 9:43 - If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand than to go into the unquenchable fires of hell with two hands.

You claim to believe Jesus, but I doubt that you really do. Here's why.

- Did you cut off your hand to assure that you don't go to hell?
- If you did, do you think that would work?
- Is this the gospel of salvation? Removing eyes and hands to avoid hell?

/ @Hillsage

 

[marks]

You claim to believe Jesus, but I doubt that you really do. Here's why.

- Did you cut off your hand to assure that you don't go to hell?
- If you did, do you think that would work?
- Is this the gospel of salvation? Removing eyes and hands to avoid hell?

/ @Hillsage

Do you have any idea what those passages are actually talking about? Because your posts don't reflect that.

Or are you thinking that your eye actually causes sin? Isn't this another manipulative post, misrepresenting the teaching of Jesus?

Much love!

 

[Rockerduck]

You claim to believe Jesus, but I doubt that you really do. Here's why.

- Did you cut off your hand to assure that you don't go to hell?
- If you did, do you think that would work?
- Is this the gospel of salvation? Removing eyes and hands to avoid hell?

/ @Hillsage

It is the part about Hell. Jesus is telling everyone to deal radically with anything that hinders you from accepting Jeus as savior for eternal life. The consequence is the unquenchable fire of Hell.

 

[St. SteVen]

It is the part about Hell. Jesus is telling everyone to deal radically with anything that hinders you from accepting Jeus as savior for eternal life. The consequence is the unquenchable fire of Hell.

You are reading into that scripture everything it doesn't say.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Isn't this another manipulative post, misrepresenting the teaching of Jesus?

Nope. You guys don't need any help in that department.

/

 

[marks]

Nope. You guys don't need any help in that department.

/

Incorrect. It was.

Much love, and hope that you also will discover the real truth of Jesus and our salvation, that you might trust in the true God!

 

[Hillsage]

I believe what Jesus said about Hell over what anyone says.

Mark 9:43 - If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand than to go into the unquenchable fires of hell with two hands.

The URL below lists how many times the word HELL is in many translations. The translation with the most HELL in it is the KJV with 54, NKJV is second with 31 times. Most poorly translated newer versions have the word HELL in them 11-13 times.
20 bibles are listed that don't have the word HELL in them at all.

Was Hell in the Original Bible (the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament)?

Can you explain to me just exactly where in HELL the word HELL disappeared to in all those translations?

 

[St. SteVen]

The URL below lists how many times the word HELL is in many translations. The translation with the most HELL in it is the KJV with 54, NKJV is second with 31 times. Most poorly translated newer versions have the word HELL in them 11-13 times.
20 bibles are listed that don't have the word HELL in them at all.

Was Hell in the Original Bible (the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament)?

Can you explain to me just exactly where in HELL the word HELL disappeared to in all those translations?

I have a list that includes New Testaments.


Bibles and New Testaments that do NOT contain the word "Hell".

Scarlett's N.T. (1798)
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)
The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917)
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)
The New Testament, Charles B. Williams, 1937
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)
Western N.T. (1926)
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)
Concordant Literal NT (1983)
he N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)
New American Bible (1970)
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)
Christian Bible (1991)
The Scriptures (1993)
World English Bible (in progress)
Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**
A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)
New Testament, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry, 1991
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE)
Roman Catholic Holy Bible In Its Original Order, Fred R. Coulter, 2007
Etymological N.T. (An Ultra Literal Translation, 2011, Michael Wine)
Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, 2006, Janet M. Magiera
MirrorWord N.T. (Francois du Toit) still in translation
Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Electronic Ver. (Tentmaker Ministries)
The Source N.T. (Dr. Ann Nyland), 2004, 2007
Jonathan Mitchell N.T. (Jonathan Mitchell) 2009
The Scriptures, 2016
Tree of Life Version, Baker Bookhouse, 2016******
The New Testament (David Bentley Hart) Yale University Press, 2017

/ cc: @Rockerduck

 

[Hillsage]

I have a list that includes New Testaments.


Bibles and New Testaments that do NOT contain the word "Hell".

Scarlett's N.T. (1798)
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)
The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917)
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)
The New Testament, Charles B. Williams, 1937
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)
Western N.T. (1926)
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)
Concordant Literal NT (1983)
he N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)
New American Bible (1970)
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)
Christian Bible (1991)
The Scriptures (1993)
World English Bible (in progress)
Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**
A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)
New Testament, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry, 1991
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE)
Roman Catholic Holy Bible In Its Original Order, Fred R. Coulter, 2007
Etymological N.T. (An Ultra Literal Translation, 2011, Michael Wine)
Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, 2006, Janet M. Magiera
MirrorWord N.T. (Francois du Toit) still in translation
Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Electronic Ver. (Tentmaker Ministries)
The Source N.T. (Dr. Ann Nyland), 2004, 2007
Jonathan Mitchell N.T. (Jonathan Mitchell) 2009
The Scriptures, 2016
Tree of Life Version, Baker Bookhouse, 2016******
The New Testament (David Bentley Hart) Yale University Press, 2017

/ cc: @Rockerduck

You never hear the bible thumpers talk about the lying pen of the modern scribes. If only they knew about the "love of money" and how there are a lot of FALSE PROFITS in the bible translation BUSINESS.

 

[St. SteVen]

You never hear the bible thumpers talk about the lying pen of the modern scribes. If only they knew about the "love of money" and how there are a lot of FALSE PROFITS in the bible translation BUSINESS.

Right.
And it's not just MODERN scribes.
This goes back to the formation of our Bible by the doctrinally biased western Latin church.

/

 

[Rockerduck]

I have a list that includes New Testaments.


Bibles and New Testaments that do NOT contain the word "Hell".

Scarlett's N.T. (1798)
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)
The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917)
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)
The New Testament, Charles B. Williams, 1937
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)
Western N.T. (1926)
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)
Concordant Literal NT (1983)
he N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)
New American Bible (1970)
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)
Christian Bible (1991)
The Scriptures (1993)
World English Bible (in progress)
Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**
A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)
New Testament, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry, 1991
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE)
Roman Catholic Holy Bible In Its Original Order, Fred R. Coulter, 2007
Etymological N.T. (An Ultra Literal Translation, 2011, Michael Wine)
Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, 2006, Janet M. Magiera
MirrorWord N.T. (Francois du Toit) still in translation
Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Electronic Ver. (Tentmaker Ministries)
The Source N.T. (Dr. Ann Nyland), 2004, 2007
Jonathan Mitchell N.T. (Jonathan Mitchell) 2009
The Scriptures, 2016
Tree of Life Version, Baker Bookhouse, 2016******
The New Testament (David Bentley Hart) Yale University Press, 2017

/ cc: @Rockerduck

I checked a few of those bibles that I could find. They still say "unquenchable fire". I checked Mark 9:43 in them.

 

[St. SteVen]

I checked a few of those bibles that I could find. They still say "unquenchable fire". I checked Mark 9:43 in them.

Thanks.
That's interesting.
Check this out.

Edom was an ancient kingdom in Transjordan located between Moab to the northeast,
the Arabah to the west and the Arabian Desert to the south and east.
Most of its former territory is now divided between Israel and Jordan.

The destruction of Edom uses the same exaggerated language descriptions as hell in the Bible.
Yet none of it lasted forever as it clearly says. And you can certainly pass through it today.
For this prophecy to be taken literally it would need to be a smoking tar pit today
with a bypass to get around it. Compare verse ten below. (Revelation 14:11)

Isaiah 34:8-11 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause.
9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch!
10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever.
From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again.
11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there.
God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

/