The Coming Great Apostasy

[Dave L]

That's what Churches on the Preterist or Historicist doctrines of men hold to. But those doctrines simply are not preparing their congregations for the coming great tribulation by the coming pseudo-Messiah that our Lord Jesus and His Apostles forewarned His Church about for the last generation that will see His 2nd coming. As a matter of fact, the doctrine of Full Preterism wrongly teaches that Jesus' 2nd coming already happened back in the Apostles days, saying it was a 'spiritual' coming and was not meant to be a literal physical bodily return.

It has already bitten you and you don't know it.

 

[Davy]

It is happening right now, right before your eyes.

Well, not yet brother, it is not happening yet.

The reason is because Apostle Paul linked that time of apostasy with the appearance and working of that "man of sin" that is to come working signs and lying wonders, the same false one our Lord Jesus warned about in Matthew 24 that is to come to Jerusalem at the end of this world, and place the "abomination of desolation" of the Book of Daniel. Notice what our Lord Jesus revealed with how powerful a deception that false one will be...

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, "He is in the desert"; go not forth: behold, "He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

The context of that is about a singular false-Messiah. The phrase "false Christs" is actually the Greek word pseudochristos meaning 'a pseudo Christ' (or false Messiah). Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance also translated that phrase in the singular as 'a spurious Messiah' (Strong's no. 5580).

But what's especially important to notice is our Lord warning that false one will work "great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible" that false Messiah would deceive even His very elect. Even Apostle Paul warned of this event in 2 Corinthians 11 when speaking of the "another Jesus" and how even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, and his ministers as the ministers of righteousness.

It is not possible for Christ's very elect to be deceived in the end; they are sealed by The Holy Spirit like Revelation 7 shows. But to work great signs and wonders that would almost... if possible, deceive even those sealed, well that shows just how powerful a delusion that pseudo-Messiah is going to work in Jerusalem at the end of this world. Even to this day, no one has seen that kind of working in Jerusalem in the last days. It is still yet to come, but I strongly think it will be in our generation that will see it, and also see our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming to end that pseudo-Messiah's working like Apostle Paul said.

 

[Davy]

You need to study this issue and not just "wing it". Virtually all of the reformation era creeds identified the Papacy as the Antichrist and some also in the post reformation era.

But that was in their... era, centuries ago. The Reformation happened long ago.

My ancestors were French Huguenots, the first French Protestants. The Catholic Church in that time tried to wipe them out. That's how my ancestors came to America, having fled to Great Britain and then to the American colonies. No doubt my ancestors then believed the pope was the Antichrist because of the persecutions. But they still survived, and it was not our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming that saved them, which is how God's Word says His Church will be saved from the Antichrist at the end of this world. So it's time to update one's understanding to today's time, because the pope was not the Antichrist back then, and nor is he today.

That is not even to say how God's Word shows the Antichrist is to appear in Jerusalem at the end of this world working great signs and wonders that would if possible deceive even Christ's very elect. No pope has ever done that, nor will a pope ever pull that off.

 

[Davy]

That should be changed to "The Current Great Apostasy"

Then that would be falsely promoting against what Apostle Paul revealed for the very end when the pseudo-Christ shows up in Jerusalem, which is yet to occur.

 

[Davy]

Dave, there is no "THE" Antichrist to come!
All of that is a gross misunderstanding of Daniel about the "little horn" and the "70 weeks".
To understand that correctly, you must only read what the angel Gabriel interprets. He is the authority. Iows, DON'T read the visions with the interpretation.
DON'T!!

The crucial element here is to KNOW your Ancient History, and to read the account of that era in Maccabees. It goes hand and hand with Daniel.
By and large, Rev. Has very little to do with it.

There was only one "little horn" ever to come, and he was Antiochus Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire, which was one of "four horns" of the Hellenistic kingdoms (greece-the 3rd beast). It was he who conducted "the abomination of desolation".
There is no " little horn" in the 4th beast. However, as the 4th beast came to be, so also was Antiochus rising "among them", but IN THE 3rd beast. Please read and study KJV ONLY!! And leave your " religious" commentaries alone!

I don't think you understand how John used that term "antichrist". John used it in referring to the false one the brethren had already heard shall come...

1 John 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
KJV

Before you get to that phrase after the one in red, that one red has to be understood first. Where and when did the brethren first hear that antichrist shall come? It was in The Gospel of John where our Lord Jesus warned that the prince of this world cometh, and has nothing in Him (John 14:30).

So we are actually given two examples by John here, 1 - a singular Antichrist idea, and 2 - the many antichrists idea.

Our Lord Jesus did the same in Matthew 24, the idea of many coming saying they are Christ, and then the singular pseudochristos that He warned would come working great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect.

Apostle Paul gave the same idea in 2 Thessalonians 2 when he warned of that false one coming to play God, working signs and lying wonders to deceive with, which is the singular "antichrist" idea, and then Paul's mention of the "mystery of iniquity" which is about the idea of the "many antichrists", i.e., Antichrist's followers.

 

[Dave L]

But that was in their... era, centuries ago. The Reformation happened long ago.

My ancestors were French Huguenots, the first French Protestants. The Catholic Church in that time tried to wipe them out. That's how my ancestors came to America, having fled to Great Britain and then to the American colonies. No doubt my ancestors then believed the pope was the Antichrist because of the persecutions. But they still survived, and it was not our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming that saved them, which is how God's Word says His Church will be saved from the Antichrist at the end of this world. So it's time to update one's understanding to today's time, because the pope was not the Antichrist back then, and nor is he today.

That is not even to say how God's Word shows the Antichrist is to appear in Jerusalem at the end of this world working great signs and wonders that would if possible deceive even Christ's very elect. No pope has ever done that, nor will a pope ever pull that off.

You bought into Dispensationalism which is less that 200 years old. The truth does not change but they disagree with all of Christendom in their end times views. If you study Dispensationalism and the Jesuits, you will find it is of Roman Catholic origin, designed to mislead believers into thinking Antichrist is yet future, and therefore not the Papacy.

 

[Keraz]

It won't just be in the holy land...

The people you refer to in Revelation 13, who worship the 'beast', are secular peoples, not Christians.
Therefore 'apostasy' [from Christianity] doesn't apply to them.
It seems from what we are told, that very few people will convert to Christianity in the end times. The disincentive is; to do so is to get your head chopped off.

But as I showed in #2, all Christians now, will gather into all of the holy Land and form our own nation, Isaiah 62:1-5, not a member of the One World Government, led by the Anti-Christ.

 

[Jeff Wiebe]

I used to think the Papacy was the antichrist but I'm starting to change my mind. This video makes cense.

 

[Helen]

I used to think the Papacy was the antichrist but I'm starting to change my mind. This video makes cense.

Good one!

 

[Dave L]

I used to think the Papacy was the antichrist but I'm starting to change my mind. This video makes cense.

The Reformers included Islam along side of the Papacy as the Antichrist.

 

[Enoch111]

Then that would be falsely promoting against what Apostle Paul revealed for the very end when the pseudo-Christ shows up in Jerusalem, which is yet to occur.

I believe you have a serious misunderstanding about this subject. Ever since the 19th century, there has been a greater and greater departure from the faith once delivered to the saints. That my friend is the building up of the great apostasy. And just recently Pope Francis has signed a covenant with the Muslims that proclaims that Allah and the God of the Bible are the same, and God wanted all the religions of the world to be in place so that ultimately there is one world religion. He has declared Muslims to be brothers to Christians.

"A historic interfaith covenant was signed in the Middle East on Monday, and the mainstream media in the United States has been almost entirely silent about it. Sheikh Ahmed al-Tayeb is considered to be the most important imam in Sunni Islam, and he arrived at the signing ceremony in Abu Dhabi with Pope Francis “hand in hand in a symbol of interfaith brotherhood.” But this wasn’t just a ceremony for Catholics and Muslims. According to a British news source, the signing of this covenant was done “in front of a global audience of religious leaders from Christianity, Islam, Judaism and other faiths... According to the official Vatican website, a tremendous amount of preparation went into the drafting of this document, and it encourages believers from all religions “to shake hands, embrace one another, kiss one another and even pray” with one another...

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/02/08...th-iman-heading-closer-to-one-world-religion/

Which means that the great apostasy is currently in place, and it also means that the revelation of the Antichrist is nearer than we think.

 

[Earburner]

If it quacks, and walks like a duck, it is probably a duck. The same is true of the biblical description of the man of sin/Antichrist, and the Papacy from about the 9th century on. But you need to study the bible to know this.

If it quacks, and walks like a duck, it is probably a duck. The same is true of the biblical description of the man of sin/Antichrist, and the Papacy from about the 9th century on. But you need to study the bible to know this.

 

[Earburner]

Dave, ALl of what you said is derived from the analytical study of the Bible, through the fleshly mind ONLY! The Spirit of the Lord speaks contrary, of which I have shown.
Do you read "the natural man" in both the singular and the plural? Then so should it be for "that man of sin" .
Are there not two "son(s) of perdition" spoken of in the NT? In the context of 2 Thes., there are more!! And why not? Is it not true that ALL the unsaved shall "go into perdtion"?
Rom. 8:9 says that isso!

 

[Dave L]

Dave, ALl of what you said is derived from the analytical study of the Bible, through the fleshly mind ONLY! The Spirit of the Lord speaks contrary, of which I have shown.
Do you read "the natural man" in both the singular and the plural? Then so should it be for "that man of sin" .
Are there not two "son(s) of perdition" spoken of in the NT? In the context of 2 Thes., there are more!! And why not? Is it not true that ALL the unsaved shall "go into perdtion"?
Rom. 8:9 says that isso!

You are confusing the man of sin/Antichrist with fallen human nature present in all unbelievers. = need more bible study under good light.

 

[Jeff Wiebe]

The Reformers included Islam along side of the Papacy as the Antichrist.

I'm thinking it will be the other way around. Catholics believe in the same God and Jesus as the Messiah like any believer does. Islam does not on both counts and is an enemy of Christianity. I cant see the Papacy being the antichrist when we have Islam that is antichrist.

 

[Earburner]

You are confusing the man of sin/Antichrist with fallen human nature present in all unbelievers. = need more bible study under good light.

Far from it! I am not the one confused!

Jesus said that his human body was the temple. John 2:19-21.
Through the Holy Spirit, Paul explains in more detail about our human bodies:
1 Cor. 3:1-17; 6:19
2 Cor. 6:16
Now apply how both Jesus and His Holy Spirit use the word temple to 2 Thes. 2:4, in the plural.
Try it this way: "the natural man, "that man of sin (the old man), the son of perdition...sitteth in the temple of God....
If Jesus isn't sitting in the temple of our bodies, who is?
Ans. The natural man, the old man, that man of sin, the son of perdition.
And for each person, who hath not the Spirit of God, he IS NONE of His. Rom. 8:9.
If therefore any man be none of His, they are by default, "a child (son) of the devil", of which shall inherit perdition (destruction). Down through the years, are there not many who have done so already, by refusing to believe in the only Savior, the Lord Jesus?

 

[Naomi25]

That should be changed to "The Current Great Apostasy"

This is interesting...because...is it? In our nations it certainly is. But in Africa, the Middle East and even in places like China where it is becoming (again) increasingly hard to be a Christian, the faith is exploding!
It seems to me that if we look back at the history of Christianity, it seems to cycle around the world. Consider: clearly it began in the Middle East...Paul helped spread it in that area...Greece, Italy, Africa. History then tracks it to Europe and Britian, which then follows those expansions. While that is happening Christianity begins to fade in the first places, swallowed by pagan religions and Islam. While it was flourishing in the West the birth places of Christianity struggled and saw 'missionaries' sent from the new world.
But now...it's as if a reversal is happening! Even though Islam is strong, and Communism in various forms is trying to stamp it out, Christianity again spreads like a flash fire in those original Countries, even while we see it fading here!

I suppose my point is this: yes...perhaps we do see apostasy here...but does that mean it is "end time" apostasy? Is it any worse than what's been seen anywhere else in the world at some other point? It may seem as bad as it's ever been....and it is...for us. But "us" is hardly the be all and end all of the whole planet and God's judging stick.

Juts a thought...

 

[Dave L]

Far from it! I am not the one confused!

Jesus said that his human body was the temple. John 2:19-21.
Through the Holy Spirit, Paul explains in more detail about our human bodies:
1 Cor. 3:1-17; 6:19
2 Cor. 6:16
Now apply how both Jesus and His Holy Spirit use the word temple to 2 Thes. 2:4, in the plural.
Try it this way: "the natural man, "that man of sin (the old man), the son of perdition...sitteth in the temple of God....
If Jesus isn't sitting in the temple of our bodies, who is?
Ans. The natural man, the old man, that man of sin, the son of perdition.
And for each person, who hath not the Spirit of God, he IS NONE of His. Rom. 8:9.
If therefore any man be none of His, they are by default, "a child (son) of the devil", of which shall inherit perdition (destruction). Down through the years, are there not many who have done so already, by refusing to believe in the only Savior, the Lord Jesus?

The problem with this is it doesn't fit with the totalitarianism wielded by the beast in Revelation. It is an external persecution aimed at the believers, and not an internal false doctrine they hold.

 

[Dave L]

I'm thinking it will be the other way around. Catholics believe in the same God and Jesus as the Messiah like any believer does. Islam does not on both counts and is an enemy of Christianity. I cant see the Papacy being the antichrist when we have Islam that is antichrist.

If you develop Antichrist's profile from scripture, it fits the Papacy to a t. Also the millions the RCC has murdered over the centuries for not receiving their mark provides evidence of the same. Vicar of Christ = Antichrist = in the place of Christ.

 

[Earburner]

Our Lord Jesus did the same in Matthew 24, the idea of many coming saying they are Christ, and then the singular pseudochristos that He warned would come working great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect.

Correct!
In the KJV for Mat. 24, and Mark 13, the Lord says nothing of a singular false Christ, working signs and wonders, but rather specifically says it in the plural.

Matt.24[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark.13[22] For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.