The Coming Great Apostasy

[Earburner]

The same applies in John's epistles. He speaks in the plural, "that spirit of antichrist". Though " that spirit" sounds singular, it applies to many, not just one individual.
As he continues to say 1 John 2[18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that [Spirit of] antichrist [singular] shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
So, in the context of his epistles, it is more clear to say that "the Spirit of antichrist" is singular, but it is applied to many [plural].
If one would read/understand that in the plural, they will not misinterpret 2 Thes. 2

 

[GTW27]

Good one!

Not only a good one, but an accurate one. I did not have "to wait for it", for a vision of the night, has already been given, to confirm what was in that video.

 

[Jeff Wiebe]

If you develop Antichrist's profile from scripture, it fits the Papacy to a t. Also the millions the RCC has murdered over the centuries for not receiving their mark provides evidence of the same. Vicar of Christ = Antichrist = in the place of Christ.

I believe the Mark of the beast hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[ScottA]

In 2 Thessalonians 2, Apostle Paul taught of the event of "a falling away" that is to happen first, prior to our Lord Jesus' coming and gathering of the Church.

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

The Greek word is apostasia (Strong's no. 646) and it's where our English word apostasy comes from. It means to forsake what one held to, becoming an apostate. And the object of the cause Apostle Paul gives is the worship of that false one, the "man of sin" and his sitting in the temple of God exalting himself over all that is called God or that is worshiped, i.e., the very sin that Satan did in the beginning.

That falling away to worship that false one instead is Paul's real subject in that chapter, and is what the "strong delusion" is that he speaks of in verse 11...

2 Thess 2:11-12
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
KJV

Paul's first warning there again was what? "Let no man deceive you by any means:". Deceive you into what? Into falling away to worship that coming false one by his working of all power of signs and lying wonders per verse 9. Those signs and wonders were another warning our Lord Jesus gave about the coming pseudo-Christ in Matthew 24:23-26. He warned the Church again through Apostle John in Revelation 13:11-14 about the "another beast" that will come working miracles and make fire come to down on earth in the sight of men.

So what is the "lie" that Paul said God is sending the unrighteous? It is the lie of that false one coming to Jerusalem to play Messiah, and by the power of miracles he will be given to perform, it will cause many brethren to fall away in false worship to him as God, instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus' coming afterwards to destroy him with the 'spirit of His mouth', as per verse 8.

Thus that great falling away is NOT yet happened today. It is hard-linked to the time of that coming false one exalting himself as Messiah in Jerusalem.

Davy...you are reading the words and not the spirit.

One who reads what is written in word only will never understand anything other than what the words say - which you, just like most of Christendom, have done quite accurately by word. But the truth has evaded you.

1. You read "temple" and did not spiritually discern that it does not mean the stone structure in Jerusalem, but rather the body. Which can be understood individually as well as corporately.
2. You read "falling away" and understood it to mean what comes after...even though it says it must come first. Which was in the beginning...again, the meaning is individual as well as corporately: individually when each is born, and corporately when all are born, but "each in his own order" as Paul clearly said.
3. You read "that day shall not come" and assumed that it had not come against the promise of Christ to come "after" His ascension, "soon" and "quickly" to each who has and will yet hear Him "knocking" and answer - again, "each in his own order."

All of which makes the "lie", that these things only happen as a mass even in the future...as you have portrayed it. That is the "lie" and the "strong delusion."

 

[Enoch111]

I believe the Mark of the beast hasn't been revealed yet.

How could it be when the Antichrist has not been revealed as yet? Some preposterously claim that Sunday worship equals taking the Mark of the Beast. Others that using fiat paper currency equals taking the Mark. As time goes on, more and more absurd ideas will surface.

 

[Enoch111]

Then that would be falsely promoting against what Apostle Paul revealed for the very end when the pseudo-Christ shows up in Jerusalem, which is yet to occur.

The great apostasy CULMINATES with the revelation of the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, the Beast, or the Antichrist. Religious events today are leading up to that time, Therefore there is no such thing as *falsely promoting* that which was prophesied as a *progressive* regression to more and more sin and evil. The 19th century saw apostasy enter into the Protestant churches, and things have gone progressively worse since then.

 

[Dave L]

I believe the Mark of the beast hasn't been revealed yet.

“And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:” (Revelation 13:16) (KJV 1900)

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.” (Revelation 14:1) (KJV 1900)

The mark is a symbol of patriotism or worship of totalitarian regimes and Antichrist laws which have existed since Nero and the Papacy.

 

[Enoch111]

The mark is a symbol of patriotism or worship of totalitarian regimes and Antichrist laws which have existed since Nero and the Papacy.

Did you stop to think how absurd that sounds! Nero must be wondering why he is getting all this attention in the 21st century, when he did not even go near Jerusalem! And the Papacy is a system, not a specific individual -- "the king of fierce countenance" -- who will control the earth from Jerusalem, not Rome.

 

[Dave L]

Did you stop to think how absurd that sounds! Nero must be wondering why he is getting all this attention in the 21st century, when he did not even go near Jerusalem! And the Papacy is a system, not a specific individual -- "the king of fierce countenance" -- who will control the earth from Jerusalem, not Rome.

Revelation spans the entire New Covenant era. How many Christians did Nero and the Papacy kill? Aren't these mention in Revelation?

You base everything on a hypothetical gap in Daniel that scripture knows nothing of. And create false prophecy out of thin air which will never come true.

 

[Enoch111]

You base everything on a hypothetical gap in Daniel that scripture knows nothing of. And create false prophecy out of thin air which will never come true.

Unless you can prove that all the heavenly bodies have been shaken out of their places, and all the mountains and islands have been removed from their places, everything you say is HOT AIR. So prove it, or forever hold you peace. And please don't insult us by saying that none of this is literal. That would actually be insulting God.

REVELATION 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Dave L]

Unless you can prove that all the heavenly bodies have been shaken out of their places, and all the mountains and islands have been removed from their places, everything you say is HOT AIR. So prove it, or forever hold you peace. And please don't insult us by saying that none of this is literal. That would actually be insulting God.

REVELATION 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

You do not understand Matthew. Nor do you understand Revelation. If you look for the symbols of Revelation to appear, you will never see them. If you look for what the symbols represent you can see fulfillment throughout history.

 

[aspen]

Make sure you guys keep doing a lot of gawking and pointing at easy targets and reading tea leaves....that should really help us get through your coming apocalypse - oh, and thanks for that....

Carry on!

 

[4Jesus]

Someone I recently read (forget where), stated an important aspect of the anti-christ, aka the false messiah, is that jews would never accept a Messiah that is not jewish; false messiah or true messiah. Of course a deceiver does not have to actually be jewish, just has to "prove" to jews that he is; therefore, at the very least, it will probably be someone who at least says he is jewish publicly.

 

[Keraz]

Someone I recently read (forget where), stated an important aspect of the anti-christ, aka the false messiah, is that jews would never accept a Messiah that is not jewish; false messiah or true messiah. Of course a deceiver does not have to actually be jewish, just has to "prove" to jews that he is; therefore, at the very least, it will probably be someone who at least says he is jewish publicly.

That is exactly how all the Jews of today claim to be of Judah. Just by saying they are Jewish. They have no proof, in fact the historical record shows that most, if not all do not have descent from Judah.
Jesus tells us what He thinks of those people; Revelation 2:9, & 3:9

 

[4Jesus]

That is exactly how all the Jews of today claim to be of Judah. Just by saying they are Jewish. They have no proof, in fact the historical record shows that most, if not all do not have descent form Judah.
Jesus tells us what He thinks of those people; Revelation 2:9, & 3:9

Agreed. And it wouldn't be difficult providing "proof", if you are a deceiver. Forged documents, falsified DNA tests, etc.

As for Revelation 2:9 & 3:9, I always read that differently, as more spiritual or commanded by God. By this I mean, Jesus was jewish, the first Christians were all jews. The OT jews were prophesized to concerning the coming Messiah. God was commanding jews to move from a sacrificial atonement of sins by animal blood, to Jesus' blood as the final sacrifice for sins. By this new covenant, jews were to become Christian: Galations 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male or female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus".

Some jews did convert, and Christianity spread to gentiles when the rest of the jews failed to obey God and accept the Messiah. In the roughly 2000 years since Jesus died, most jews have not converted to the new covenant/Messiah Jesus, setting up the end times when God turns his attention back to jews to eventually accept the Messiah Jesus.

So what Jesus meant, I think at least, is that those who call themselves jews in the end times, are of the "synagogue of Satan" for disobeying God and rejecting the Messiah. For if they were jews, as God's chosen people, who obey his commands, they would be "all one in Christ Jesus".

 

[Keraz]

Agreed. And it wouldn't be difficult providing "proof", if you are a deceiver. Forged documents, falsified DNA tests, etc.

They don't have to bother with any of that, suckers that we are, the world just accepts their claim.

when God turns his attention back to jews to eventually accept the Messiah Jesus.

The idea of a general Jewish conversion in the last days, is common in the Church, however it isn't found in the Bible. It is an vital part of the false 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory. Them on earth; us in heaven. Not going to happen.
Soon, the Lord will send His fiery wrath in Judgement upon the nations and the Middle East region will be virtually depopulated. Jeremiah 12:14, +
Only a remnant of the Jewish peoples, those who believed in Jesus now, will be saved. Romans 9:27

 

[4Jesus]

The idea of a general Jewish conversion in the last days, is common in the Church, however it isn't found in the Bible. It is an vital part of the false 'rapture to heaven' of the Church theory. Them on earth; us in heaven. Not going to happen.
Soon, the Lord will send His fiery wrath in Judgement upon the nations and the Middle East region will be virtually depopulated. Jeremiah 12:14, +
Only a remnant of the Jewish peoples, those who believed in Jesus now, will be saved. Romans 9:27

Hi Keraz, thanks for the conversation btw.

I agree that there will not be a "general" Jewish conversion, that is, it won't be all of them. It will specific, not all Jews will convert. The reason I believe so, is found in Revelation 7:4 "
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand."

As well as:
Two witnesses to prophesize (presumably in Jerusalem) Revelation 11:1-13 "
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

God will send the two witnesses, in an attempt to capture Israel's attention, and to convert to believers of Jesus as their Messiah, as judgment/wrath falls on their false messiah. One last chance.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You are 100% correct! I preach the same all the time!
Consider this, the mark of the beast is going to bring the "falling away first", and it won't be "religious" in any way. In fact it will appeal to "the natural man".

After their orchestrated " Chaos" is in full swing, the purpose of it is to line up everyone for their one world government.
So then, who will have faith then? Only born again Christians, and that's all. All others will have sold out their "birthright" for food and paying the bills (remember Esau).
The mark will be directly tied in with your "digitized" bank account.
No mark? Then no access to your account!

Yes, peace on earth sounds so right doesn't it?
But that's NOT what Jesus said!
Luke 12[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

The apostasy of the churches seems to be well underway. I was on a "Christian" blog that permits commentary on their articles just yesterday. I innocently posted what I thought were Biblical resolutions to many of the theological problems which women can experience in evangelical churches. I was immediately attacked by a group of extreme "Christian feminists."

First, let me say that I was NOT supporting the "women should sit down and shut up" variety of theology that you will often find in very conservative churches--I merely said that the Bible supported the husband as being in authority over his wife and that she should submit to him, but with a warning that unless he treated her properly, his prayers would not be heard. I did NOT say that women should submit to all men in the churches (nor do I believe it) because I'm fairly certain that the passage which tells Christians to "obey" their leaders is a faulty translation and should be something like, "be open to the persuasion of your [godly] leaders".

Second, I believe that Paul did indeed employ a woman, Priscilla, to teach and exercise authority over Apollos (the text places her name before her husband's, indicating that she was in the lead when teaching Apollos). Paul did not tell Timothy that the Holy Spirit did not permit women to teach and have authority (i.e. correcting faulty understanding--the two are linked) over men--he said that HE (Paul) did not. By way of a possible explanation, Paul obviously did not need any more trouble with the Gentile authorities than he already had. From his letter to the Corinthians, you get the idea that some Gentile women were taking advantage of their new freedom in Christ and it was likely offending the men in the congregations. That was probably the case throughout the Gentile areas that Paul was entering to establish churches. What added to the trouble was likely that Gentile women (even high-born women) were not well-schooled in a knowledge of God (that would not have been the case in Jewish households of Paul's acquaintance) and their ignorance paired with stridency, was impeding the gospel message.

Third, I also tackled the line in 1 Timothy 2:15 where Paul insists that women will be "saved through child-bearing", if they continued in "faith, love, holiness and modesty" (a delicate way of referring to chastity?). I had to admit that this was a bit of a head-scratcher for me until I happened to read in a report on ancient medical practices, that women in Greece and Rome were often terrified to have children (they would often seek "pessaries" to end pregnancies, so great was their fear) because so many women died during childbirth or shortly after, by infection. Those with sexually-transmitted disease were even more at risk--much more than the average, chaste Jewish woman (which, again, Paul would have known before he encountered the wider Gentile world). There was apparently a great deal of STDs in both Greece and Rome because of all the sexual depravity throughout the Roman Empire (don't ask). There were a wide variety of nostrums marketed for venereal disease of one sort or another. The light bulb went on for me at that point. In the Jewish mind, "salvation" often referred to the preservation of one's mortal life. Paul may have merely been referring back to the previous line where he discussed the Fall of Adam and Eve and their subsequent punishment. For women, that meant difficulty and pain in child-bearing as their punishment. He may have been comforting the Gentile women that, if they led chaste lives, they would be helped and preserved through the perils of child-bearing.

These all seemed to be reasonable and civil points, and I was looking forward to discussion--but...the viciousness of the attacks from the "Christian feminists" took my breath away. I was told first that my opinions were not backed up by Scripture (they were as much as possible). I was told that I was betraying all women and that I had been "brainwashed" by evil men in my church. Then I was told that I was undoubtedly not even a woman--just an evil man trying to defend an evil doctrine! They began to coarsely joke between themselves that I was a trans-sexual! Then they began to tell me of their "horrible," "rights-denying" experiences in conservative churches. When I suggested that it was not helpful to them to be so bitter, I was told that they had every right to be bitter and to just stop posting. To top it off, the woman who owns the blog told me that my views were "antiquated and peculiar" and that she was putting me on "permanent moderation" and that I should take my opinions elsewhere. All of my posts defending my position were scrubbed and no further rebuttals have been posted. This seems crazy to me--what say you?

 

[Nancy]

You are 100% correct! I preach the same all the time!
Consider this, the mark of the beast is going to bring the "falling away first", and it won't be "religious" in any way. In fact it will appeal to "the natural man".

After their orchestrated " Chaos" is in full swing, the purpose of it is to line up everyone for their one world government.
So then, who will have faith then? Only born again Christians, and that's all. All others will have sold out their "birthright" for food and paying the bills (remember Esau).
The mark will be directly tied in with your "digitized" bank account.
No mark? Then no access to your account!

Yes, peace on earth sounds so right doesn't it?
But that's NOT what Jesus said!
Luke 12[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Hi Earburner, and welcome!
How would a digitized bank account relate to the "mark" being in the right hand or forehead?
nancy

 

[Davy]

You bought into Dispensationalism which is less that 200 years old. The truth does not change but they disagree with all of Christendom in their end times views. If you study Dispensationalism and the Jesuits, you will find it is of Roman Catholic origin, designed to mislead believers into thinking Antichrist is yet future, and therefore not the Papacy.

I do not believe in Darby's ideas of a Pre-trib Rapture, nor his Dispensationalist beliefs. Those on mans's doctrines of Preterism and Historicism (like yourself) often try to push the Biblical links about the coming false-Messiah to systems like Darby's when in reality those events are clearly written of by our Lord Jesus and His Apostles for the end of this world.

Just because one agrees with Bible Scripture about the coming Antichrist and great tribulation (which I covered earlier) will be at the very end of this world in the generation when Jesus returns does not make them a Pre-tribulationalist nor a Dispensationalist. I hold to a Post-tribulational bodily return of our Lord Jesus and gathering of His Church, just as God's Holy Writ does declare for at the very end of this world.